Missing the point of 9-11 completely
So, I was perusing the new IVAW website (which apparently doesn’t block us yet) and I tripped over these droppings from Victor Agosto;
…the world’s biggest terrorists are the those who will stop at nothing to control land, resources, markets, and people. They are the capitalist ruling class, whose lust for profit cannot be satisfied.
Victor began this journey as an opponent to the war, and now he’s a class warrior. He never claimed to be a conscientious objector, but I guess he would be now, since all wars that the US fights seems to be a war for our capitalist ruling class…even though we didn’t antagonize anyone rational in the Muslim world to cause the attack on September 11th.
Well, we did liberate Kuwait, kept Hussein from using his aircraft against Iraqis, stationed troops in Saudi Arabia at the invitation of the government. We kept the Egyptians and Israelis separated from each other for two decades at the invitation of both governments. We gave aid to nearly every country in the Near East – even Afghanistan – before the attack.
None of that prevented the 9-11 attack. But yeah, it’s all the fault of the capitalists. If you have the memory the same length as a fruit fly’s life span.
But Victor is a great example of the influence that the International Socialist Organization has on the members of the anti-war movement. A year ago, Victor was just a criminal who avoided his obligation. Today, he mouths the empty words of the class warriors.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Iraq Veterans Against the War
Yes, the situation was terrible before the U.S. invaded Afghanistan – now it’s even worse.
How, exactly? Impart to us your worldly wisdom and your long time in the ‘Stan (you only six days less there than Matthis, IIRC) to tell the folks who HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN THERE why they’re so full of shit.
Assclown.
@ Casey
You are a supporter of capitalism. You haven’t even offered criticisms of it. I don’t hate you because of that (I dislike you for other reasons), just like I don’t hate most of the people I know who support capitalism (family included). I do consider the capitalist class to be my enemy, for sure.
Bush presented a false dichotomy, I did not. A person doesn’t have to support either or him or the terrorists.
You either support capitalism or you don’t. It is the status quo, and your failure to take a position on it is, in effect, support.
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”
– Desmond Tutu
@NHS
Yeah, because every person who has been to Afghanistan agrees with you. Do you deny the UNICEF report? Are they just pulling that shit out their ass?
@Casey
Capitalism doesn’t work. Show me where it has “worked.” I can also say the same thing about feudalism, slavery, and fascism.
Consider this: how many people try to get to get to Cuba, Mexico, North Kora and tried to run the Berlin Wall to get to East Germany. Also the fact that the standard of living compared to these places should also show who is doing better.
Also in regards to Afghanistan, it matters because your group’s main point was to have first hand experience yet you are just as much a expect from Afghanistan then the guy who stayed in his hometown for his entire life. Also quote the report and the date that it was published.
Lastly you like to talk big about fighting the “Man” yet you seem to have no problem enjoying the comforts of our way of life. What have you done that really means anything since you brought up inaction in your last quote. What are you doing besides processing CO2?
@Warren
November 20, 2009
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-5722231-503543.html
“it matters because your group’s main point was to have first hand experience yet you are just as much a expect from Afghanistan”
I’m not here “representing IVAW,” but many people in the group do have such experiences. I, fortunately, do not.
I can read. I can even tell you about things that happened before i was born! Amazing!
“What are you doing besides processing CO2?”
I’m doing things you wouldn’t approve of, Warren.
I will agree you do not need to be in a place to know it’s a cluster-fuck. Plus, to be fair, Victor has no lied about his service. We have to, dare I say this, treat Victor as an individual. Remember, it was ex-IVAW member Matthis who lied about his service, not Victor.
I too am against the wars, but because I do not frame it in the “Capitalism is evil” context clearly I am an enabler to the Capitalist enemy. You know, also, if you don’t support the wars, you are not supporting the troops, and that means you are enabling the terrorists. Or so a band of nut cases said. If I’m not with you, I must be against you.
I think for some people they just can’t figure out that you don’t have to wave a flag, or be an “ist” or an “ism”, to be for or against something.
Oh, and that poor mouse who is getting the raw end of life doesn’t think much about protests and silly chants either.
@Casey
…but the mouse does think highly of you if you’re wearing a nice suit and look “professional.” Right.
I was kinda asking which dod release it said that in rather then a year old news report giving the cliff notes Also one that is current of this year.
Also I asked what you have done, not what I would disaprove of.
I wouldn’t trust a DoD release myself.
I really have no idea what some people have against looking sharp. I guess looking professional makes me “The Man!”. 😉
But you know, I thought that was one of the reasons that first hand experences. Are looked after because many times you need to be there to get what is really going on. Something Victor does not have with Afghan or Iraq.
Viktor:
Reread comment #50. Answer please.
Capitalism has worked quite well. While the capitalists are producing they pay, (even quite handsomely), those who assist them in their endeavors. For instance; I often work as crew on High Dollar, ($1.5 million plus), Sportfish boats, assisting Capitalists to enjoy themselves in pursuit of very large fish, all to satisfy their egos in winning this or that contest. They are so successful that they bleed money. In assisting them, helping them to stroke their egos, they pay me nearly obscene amounts of money all in the name of “tipping”. I usually make more in a weekend of this lifestyle than the pimps for the socialists make in a week.
Capitalism has been very successful. Socialism has not.
Check the link at comment #50, for a fine example.
Well, if you are making a case for or against something, of course you’d want to listen to someone who has been there. It’s takes priority over those who have not. But that doesn’t mean that someone who hasn’t been to a certain place doesn’t know what they are talking about. I just get upset with those you flat-out lie about crap.