Quick email snafu follow-up
The Atlantic released the full texts of the e-mails Jeffrey Goldberg received erroneously. No one is denying their accuracy that I can see (other than the usual Trumpist ad hominem attacks, like always.)
To those who claim there were no operational or classified details included, here is a sample:
The text beneath this began, “TIME NOW (1144et): Weather is FAVORABLE. Just CONFIRMED w/CENTCOM we are a GO for mission launch.” Centcom, or Central Command, is the military’s combatant command for the Middle East. The Hegseth text continues:
“1215et: F-18s LAUNCH (1st strike package)”
- “1345: ‘Trigger Based’ F-18 1st Strike Window Starts (Target Terrorist is @ his Known Location so SHOULD BE ON TIME – also, Strike Drones Launch (MQ-9s)”
“1410: More F-18s LAUNCH (2nd strike package)”
“1415: Strike Drones on Target (THIS IS WHEN THE FIRST BOMBS WILL DEFINITELY DROP, pending earlier ‘Trigger Based’ targets)”
“1536 F-18 2nd Strike Starts – also, first sea-based Tomahawks launched.”
“MORE TO FOLLOW (per timeline)”
“We are currently clean on OPSEC”—that is, operational security.“Godspeed to our Warriors. The Atlantic
Admittedly I don’t have as much experience working with classified material as some here (call it only ten years military and civilian), but let’s be honest: Any of us would be breaking rocks at Leavenworth for a long time sending this level of information out on a system which even the Army warned against as being easily compromised.
This is a gross violation of OPSEC no matter who you are.
This is not a “gee, ya screwed up, don’t let it happen again.”
Read the article. Look at the texts.
Category: Dick Stepping
Ok. Some folks did something. Fix it and charlie mike. Don’t do it again or consequences, bad.
Did anyone in the media, like the ones currently howling, criticized the Biden administration when they got 13 of our people killed in Kabul during the disastrous pullout? How the million other times when the Bidenites fucked something up? No?
That’s why I don’t care. At least the current admin didn’t get anyone killed. From our side, I mean.
So yeah. Don’t do it again. Charlie Mike, continue mission.
I was in shipboard engineering and repair, so I am NOT familiar at looking at “war plans”. The article states the DNI & CIA Chief say “… “There was no classified material that was shared in that Signal group…” Its not a good look and you know the Dems will go apoplectic. I saw on X the Dem Senator Warner was demanding everybody resign, but according to Charlie Kirk “In 2018, the same Sen. Mark Warner who put on quite the performance today, was caught red-handed using Signal to correspond in secret with a lobbyist for Russian Oligarch and Putin crony Oleg Deripaska. An extensive Fox News investigation at the time revealed he didn’t want to leave a “paper trail” as he sought to connect with Russia hoaxer Christopher Steele” So its more pot calling the kettle black type bullshit. They need to tighten up comms and come correct.
“We are currently clean on OPSEC”—that is, operational security.“Godspeed to our Warriors.
Bullshit
OPSEC is a warfighting capability used to identify and protect military “bits and pieces” of sensitive information from people who wish to do us harm. This sensitive information, if collected by an adversary, can provide them with indicators pointing to our future activities and give them an advantage.
.Operational security (OPSEC) is a process that organizations deploy to prevent sensitive information from getting into the wrong hands. OPSEC identifies actions that may seem innocuous but could inadvertently result in critical or sensitive data being revealed or leaked to a potential attacker.
Yes, but the point is that nobody talks like that. Nobody says “we are currently clean on OPSEC”!
This is circumstantial evidence that this is a made up story. OPSEC is a continuous operational requirement, not a conditions-set requirement for a follow up mission phase.
The administration is not denying the accuracy of the info. So I’m not sure what circumstantial evidence you are referring to.
It wasn’t portion marked so it couldn’t be classified, so it was okay to send over a cell phone AP right. /sarc
In a previous life as someone who used to run comm disruption team as part of Air Force training/exercises. The vulnerability of senior leaders comms to eavesdropping was interesting. Even to off the shelf Radio Shack equipment Things like LMR/IBR/Bricks were great sources of info.
Its been 35 years or so since I’ve done that, but some bored JOs/NCOs who were English/American linguists could glean a significant amount of info from non-crypto secure comms.
I’m going to have to agree with Slow Joe on this one.
If anything I would say it was an attempt to determine how quickly this idiot would put it out to the public.
Has any Conspiracy theorist tried identifying whether this information is true? Were there two strike packages of F-18s and MQ-9s used to strike Yemen (Houthi) targets on the date in question?
Not confirming farcical information is not the same as confirming it. They don’t have to say “I will neither confirm nor deny”, in order to ignore a non-story.
Until this is settled, I think I’ll go with a Fortitude North type deception operation.
They added a few embellishments to an existing script.
What was printed was nether an OPLAN or OPORD.
Why are people running around in circles with their hair on fire doing the pee-pee dance?
Because ORANGE MAN BAD! Don’t you get it?
Because they are D-rat propagandists and it is all they have. They are desperate, like the third monkey trying to get on the Ark when it is starting to rain. Less than 90 days in and the Trump admin is kicking ass every day. It is driving these dysfunctional Progs crazy.
Suprise, suprise.
But at least Hegseth is being transparent as he promised……
Oh, and someone needs to get Tim Sheehy on the phone and get his input…
Funniest comment of the day by far.
Any enlisted or officer below O5 would need eight hours of online classification derivations training after a GOMAR.
No. The current policy is: stand in front of the investigating Officer with your Supervisor and take your “a$$ chewing”, followed by about 45 minutes to one hour of Power Point supported by video of retraining.
There is more time spent cleaning and sanitizing spillage than there is in the consequences. This wasn’t spillage, just poor control of CUI.
My shop is now expecting a new round of training on “derivative classification”, which we’ve already had for the year and really don’t need since nobody here has classification or declassification authority. When the cockup is at the top, the serfs pay for it.
So the enemy knows time, approximate location and platforms…
Yeah…YUGE OPSEC VIOLATIONS
Right you are Sir! Times!!!??? The most secret of secrets. Our ability to coordinate and move fast is what makes us deadly. A well organized bad guy could roll with this and get inside our OODA loop. That text string is TS/SCI Special Category/Polo Step. Before the fact that is. Afterwards, well? The timing spreads are exploitable so it would be secret most likely.
“The most secret of secrets”
Depends. The takeoff time of every B-52 mission flown from Guam (and probably Thailand) during the Vietnam war was known immediately at least in part due to Soviet “trawlers” around Guam. It would surprise me if there were not Chinese and/or Russian satellites monitoring the bases from which those F-18s flew. Do they have real-time communication with the Houthis in Yemen?
Aren’t F-18s Navy aircraft? Don’t they usually fly off of carriers?
F/A-18’s are carrier-based but can fly out of land-based airfields just as easily.
Probably easier, and less stressful I’m sure.
Carriers are not invisible. The Russians, and presumably the Chinese, have developed ocean-reconnaissance satellites using visible, IR, and radar to detect ships. They may also eavesdrop on communications.
It was also standard practice during Soviet times for Soviet “trawlers” to shadow carrier battle groups to gather intelligence on US carrier operations and even provide real-time intelligence to interested parties. Do they still do it? I don’t know.
So, are you advocating just making it easy for the bad guys? Of course, adversaries collect intelligence. You simply can’t excuse this type of screw up.
In this case there is no hope of deception regarding timing and sequencing (if you assume that use of Signal=compromised data). Hacking Signal is much less expensive for adversaries than deploying physical intelligence collection assets in the field. Which is why the security folks tell you NOT TO USE SIGNAL FOR CLASSIFIED WORK! Of course, these would be the same folks that once wired Intel Link routers direct to the web (all was well given the levels of encryption in play). Honest mistakes you learn from…this simply cannot be considered an “honest mistake.” Those people are briefed and provided secure communication systems. They screwed up.
I don’t care what political flavor you follow this is a screw up. If Seaman Schmuckatelli has to follow said rules, then so does SecDef, etc. Sadly, the past few decades are replete with people not being professional. Firing people is a respectable activity and it should be considered. You don’t have to ruin people when dismissing them but if you don’t fire someone then you never had anyone responsible at all.
“are you advocating just making it easy for the bad guys?”
Nope. Just saying it isn’t the end of the world. There have been, and will continue to be, worse incidents, most of which get less publicity.
The “approximate location” is an area about 500 miles in diameter. When Brandon was in office and they struck a Houthi target, his minions would call them well in advance and warn them to get their people out of the target so no one was killed. It was all Kabuki theater.
True.
A bit of a non-sequitur but, beyond the blame game, this debacle illustrates a very real capabilities gap:
With the digital age and the shift away from radio communications, it seems we’ve left ourselves with a massive gap in our COMMS infrastructure – we’ve got so many options now for secure communications as long as you’re somewhere close to a flagpole, but very little for when you’re in the field.
The legitimate members of this group chat (read: everyone save Goldberg) are rarely going to be able to gather in a SCIF at a moment’s notice to discuss time-sensitive issues; the nature of our system can create a degree of compartmentalization and they absolutely need to be able to reach through those walls and coordinate in real time. There really aren’t any great options for that, and apps like Signal are among the best of the bad.
End-to-end encryption offers a possible modern equivalent to frequency hopping, but we are utterly dependent upon third-party developers of questionable dependability. It would be great if we could direct some R&D toward creating a proprietary system.
This entire situation is being framed as a J-2 concern (and everyone who ever passed a polygraph seems to be weighing in), but the solution could be a J-6 focus.
________________
As for Goldberg’s inclusion on the chat… it could be just a fat-fingered mistake but that seems too convenient. My guess is it was an intentional leak.
Probably to get the word out that we are taking action against these terrorists. Honestly, would the MSM be discussing it at all without the sensationalism?
Possibly (I hope not), in an attempt to entrap a hostile journalist into compromising national security. If this was the goal, I’m glad it failed, but he’s still making himself out to be a bit of an unreliable clown.
“we’ve got so many options now for secure communications”
Allegedly secure.
“they absolutely need to be able to reach through those walls and coordinate in real time”
Probably a lot less often than they think they need to. Sorry, but the input of most of those folks is not absolutely necessary most of the time. Only in the movies.
Their input isn’t always necessary, but having their channels in the loop is important for unity of command.
To me, needing the input of multiple people seems to be the opposite of “unity of command”.
Well, Goldberg IS Trump’s biggest fan
And if he can embarrass Trump or drive him from office, the hell with the country as his job would be considered a success.
Cabinet level folks are supplied with “secure” systems to communicate with. Those systems are the best we have (until proven otherwise). If those tools would have been used (properly) the reporter would not have been included on said chat (no encryption keys on his end).
Just like Clinton’s boot leg e-mail server this is an inexcusable mistake. Why not just have a meeting in a SCIF? These people do go to the office. Secure phones are all over those spaces. Leave your damn cell phone in your car or in the lockers outside secure spaces and do your job properly.
Lets hope they learn from it. I did observe they learned one thing from previous swamp dwellers and that is “I can’t recall.” Different folks, same sleaze…
Hillary’s bootleg server was not a “mistake.” It was done purposely to conceal her communications from disclosure via FOIA law and official records retention because she is a crook and grifter just like the Bidens.
Those “secure” systems they’re supplied with include smartphones with Signal and various other apps installed that are intended for informal coordination when everyone cannot gather together at a moment’s notice. With those phones, the end-user never deals with the COMSEC in the same way any 10-level joe is (used to be) expected to load his SINCGARS with an ANCD.
I agree they weren’t used properly in this situation, but an intentional leak (hardly unheard of) smells much better than does either an error or sabotage.
My main point (the non-sequitur) was that it would be nice to have some proprietary end-to-end encryption software so the USG didn’t have to rely on third-party industry for these apps. Not everyone has the luxury of a daily run to Green Beans, let alone immediate access to a SCIF – even that high up the flagpole, some people still work.
I have heard Democrats learn new words and acronyms like; Classified, SCIF, OPSEC this week.
Not sure why they didn’t know them when Biden was using his garage and a closet at a job he never went to for a SCIF.
Secure Corvette Information Facility.
I have one of those in my garage, it is mounted in the dash of my C-7. Without the coded security device in your pocket, you can’t even enter the facility.
So what’s new? It has been rather obvious for decades, at least (Pentagon Papers, anyone?) that there is entirely too much chatter in the defense/intelligence “community” at all levels. People who should know better just cannot keep their fucking mouths shut.
For one thing they should never tell a reporter that they caught Bin Laden by using a friendly doctor to collect DNA when he was giving out vaccines. Because it could be really bad for the doctor if anyone ever found out.
And he is still in prison in Crapistan, cuz Ol’ Osama was secretly a national hero for killing all those infidels in the Great Satan.
Can we bring back code talkers? It worked very well back in the day.
It would be great to see basic encryption brought back to the 10-level tasks.
As far as bringing back code talkers… we can’t even figure out how to get everyone in uniform to understand English.
Maybe we could bring back the ol’ KY-38 system and have everyone on the war cabinet staff packing on wherever they go. Then all their direct conversations could by scrambled. I’m sure you former wiredogs could figure out how to assemble and hook up all the needed gear. It only takes about half an hour to set up all those pins in the coder.
I’m pretty sure I could still set the permutator cards on a KG-27.
I may or may not have a couple of operable PRC-77’s. I admit nothing. You know the rest.
If you don’t PM your gear, you can’t have any Comm.
How can you have any Comm if you don’t PM your gear.
Nicely played. Now I have that for an earworm to replace the last earworm. So long mean streets.
I don’t recall the “Prick-E7s” being encrypted!!?
They don’t have an embedded COMSEC capability, but can be encrypted via KY-38 or KY-57.
Do they still make batteries for them?
Nope. But they’ll operate off any 12V source. I’ve seen an adapter for D cells that fits the battery box.
Nice.
The KY-38 was another box with a PRC-25/77 battery that cabled to the FM radio. It operated as voice scrambler. my company radio operator hated it because it had to be carried with the radio and it was about the same weight, plus it used up batteries faster. So, he had quite a ruck load.
That’s an old one – even the supply sergeants you send the new soldiers to don’t get it.
Not that old. Sent a couple of boots looking for a “Prick-E7” back in the late 2000s. Granted, that was right after the Chosen One took office, and the powers-that-be suddenly got a moto-boner for solving hazing…
“The combined weight of the units, 54 pounds (24.5 kg), proved an obstacle to their use in combat.”
(From Wikipedia on NESTOR)
I love the understatement.
Well, my company CP always had to carry one in the bush so my lunatic BN commander could call me around 2300 hours and wake me from my beauty sleep in my prone shelter (hole in the ground for your REMF’s), so he could chew my ass for something important like not getting my men shaved every day. I think my three RTO’s took turns on who would carry it and its extra batteries. We only used it when we were in our night lagger (NDP) and the asshole called and said I had to talk to him “secure.” God delivered us from him when he was relieved for “incompetence.” They put him in the rear with the division support battalion where he couldn’t get people killed–lateral transfer for the son-in-law of a three-star general.
Whatever language Biden was speaking his last ten years in office would be great. Nobody has ever deciphered that.
Cultural appropriation!
Wrong. The material was not classified, and it was sent on a secure system that has been installed on all gov’t devices, including the laptops of the CIA. But there is something wrong with Signal, or there is a mole somewhere of the staffs of the NSC or the other parties to the email. When the new CIA director was given his CIA laptop Signal was installed on it and he was told it was secure for emails. With all the participants in this communication travelling all over the world, it was not practical for all of them to be in a SCIF at the same time, period.
These leftist media pukes don’t want the Cabinet members using Signal because it can’t be hacked for leaking purposes, so they can play gotcha like they did in Trump’s first term. Once the encrypted messages are sent, received and read they are deleted, and can’t be hacked.
We don’t know if it was classified or not. I tend to think that the parts about strike times would be held at least a secret level based upon my experiences while serving. If it were classified, they would never say it was; because that is the policy on classified material.
Dude seriously fucked up that’s all there is to it
Waltz is definitely a deep state turd
Was intel and all I can say is they completely
Fucked up here what a dumb thing to do.
If this keeps up. Trump needs to stop it with tariffs
And taking over Greenland publicly
And start working the back channels
This shit is getting old already
Why?
Reciprocal tariffs for anyone that place tariffs on American products. I am sick and tired of all those mofos that hate America but live off our money. Finally we have a President with the ballz to push back on foreign tariffs on our exports.
More importantly, a President that cannot be bought. This the only chance we have to get even.
About Greenland, we got it fair and square in WW2. I say plant the flag and let the eurowhinies cry. But I guess we are the only superpower in history that cannot use force to achieve national goals. Outside the middle east.
It is weird that every mothefucker in the world wants to come to America, except Greenland. Why? What benefits are they getting now that they will lose if they join the Union? Hmmm.
Also, don’t forget that the little politicians in Greenland prefer to have their independence to maintain their petty powers over their people, rather than have their population benefit from our constitutional rights. Like that old middle eastern saying “better to be head of the mouse than tail of the lion”.
Finally, our Democrat “friends” and the always loyal corporate media will do everything in their power to fan the fire in stop any possible acquisition of Greenland. Remember that Zelensky met with Dems before the disastrous meeting in the Oval Office.
He needs to work the tariff issue off-line
Go online public if the reach a impasse.
His words have power. This back and forth
Is NUTZ it’s destroying my 401 and is making me
A basket case.
Pete completely screwed up
Talk about an idiot move. I don’t care who gave him permission to use it, he knows better.
Waltz is a (Deep Stater) I’m not completely
Convinced he’s the real deal that for this administration. Who in the hell cc’s the Atlantic
On something like this and why in the hell would
He have their contact info knowing the are a hardcore leftist publication..
Trump has the power to kill the CBS takeover
Every damn news channel has the same talking points because the read from the same script
Why would the US want to pick up a welfare state like Greenland? F8ck that. We can add or subtract combat forces there pretty much at will. So, what’s the point?
Let the Danes fund the welfare state there. We can pay rent for whatever bases we need there just like we have since WW2. Our politicians are seemingly equally stupid regardless of party. Pick your battles carefully, and, generally, let others do the bleeding. We already have as much of Greenland as we need.
Iceland is a much better prize except we already “have” what we need out of Iceland as well.
I expect the staffer who pulled together the people for this is getting reamed. Remember, this was not a case of Signal being compromised, but a hostile agent being invited in. Think of this like the time where the nuclear codes “football” got left in a bathroom.
Hilariously, the Atlantic called Signal the “gold standard” for secure communication in an earlier article.
My corrective actions:
Agreed. All good points.
The staffer. Yeah.
Nice scapegoat.
That is why Major Generals (O-8) and above have Communications Teams. Their job is to ensure that the people invited to the party are the ones with invitations, and no one else. The VIPs don’t have the time, training, or resources to run their COMMS by themselves.
Yes, the staffer who was assigned the task of creating the group chat, will suffer for their mistake. I think the term now is “You had one job to do and…”
One would think that a group chat that is mostly cabinet-level officials would’ve been handled by WHCA (No, not the White House correspondents association) or at least the Pentagon equivalent.
As I think I said elsewhere, those people talk too damn much. To paraphrase an old WWII poster—“Is this conversation necessary?”.
It’s always the staffer or the intern. They’re essentially disposable.
This shit is making Phil Monkress look good.
The biggest trouble with ‘identifying everyone present’ is not everyone involved was in the chat at the same time. Like any regular phone text, someone posts a message and it could be seconds to hours before another member of the chat to whom it was directed saw it and responded – during that time every other member of the chat could have seen the text but without a response from them there is no way to know exactly who.
At the very least, use full names. No initials.
“See about licensing something like Signal or Telegram to develop our own private service. (Walled garden)”
Something like the TAK suite of applications, but text / voice / embedded media messaging only. You could set up / tear down local nodes as needed and retain control of the data exchanged between users.
Yada yada, how the frick did he end up on that group? I doubt he was butt dialed. Someone who had access set them up.
Current story is one of Waltz’s lower-level staff admins had Goldberg’s number for some reason and (accidentally) did a mass invite of the numbers on his phone.
Further investigation will reveal whether it was by accident or design, why this low-level staffer had the number to begin with (latest word I have read is the staffer worked with pro-Biden/Harris groups in the past) and what punishment will be meted out.
I would like to know how many more moles are inside Trump’s admin.
Their name is Legion, for they are many.
That is the only safe assumption.
Accidentally, wink wink nudge nudge.
Under the current government regulations, what was shared in that Signal thread would be considered CUI (Controlled Unclassified Information). The CUI designation replaced NOFORN a few years ago and those of us in government/military work have had extensive training regarding the dissemination of CUI. As stated in several of the texts, the actual classified information was contained on the ‘High Side’ systems not accessible on the same devices that the government-supplied Signal app was loaded to. So yes, there was nothing classified discussed in that chat. The liberals running around with their hair on fire is another act in a long line of overacting.
CUI effectively replaced FOUO. NOFORN is a separate category.
While you are correct that CUI replaced FOUO, all our paperwork that used to be NOFORN is now CUI as well.
Fact check me, seriously, if not accurate I want to know. Even if it is not this Alex Wong guy, someone intentionally brought that Goldberg guy in. Alex Wong, the Deputy National Security Advisor is the one who added Goldberg to the chat. There is suddenly all kinds of interest in his in-laws and his wife. There needs to be an investigation into Wong’s contact with Goldberg. It has been the question I’ve been asking all along. This is an invitation only, secure platform so how did this journalist with known, terminal TDS get in there? THAT is the real security breach, having an unauthorized civilian in the chat. Instead, everyone is going on and on whether or not it was “war plans”, is it a standard or approved or safe platform, etc., etc. There is no platform that is safe if there is an intentional security breach from within. If true, Wong needs to be prosecuted. I’m hoping there is some consequence that can be levied against this journalist as well. He knew, absolutely knew, he was where he wasn’t supposed to be and put his hatred for Trump above the interests of the US. That makes him a traitor in my book. Maybe he sent his ‘war plans’ to someone at Al Jazeera or Al Arabiya or Pravda and can be charged with espionage? This story is far from over. I knew, just knew, by the amount of outrage and identically scripted coverage by legacy media the real story was very different. Distract, distract, smear, slam, rinse and repeat until a)everyone is bored with it, or b)the next distraction is created. By the time the truth comes out, no one is paying attention. Just to be sure their narrative is what is remembered, legacy media will give the real story scant attention. This is how there are people who still believe the Russia hoax, the 51 intelligence officers, Trump ordered the armed storming of the Capital on J6, dozens of police officers died. Hand to God, I know people who absolutely believe everyone of these things. And this… Read more »
Sorry for the block of text. It was formatted as paragraphs
Incompetence by any other name is still the same…
Green Thumb – I don’t understand the incompetence statement. Mike Waltz had Alex Wong recommended to him by … someone whose job it was to vet and recommend personnel. If that person is a mole and a traitor, does that justify calling Waltz or this Administration incompetent?
All outrage needs to be focused on how Goldberg got into the chat.
I always spot check shit.
Wong or no Wong, spot check.
It is a leader’s responsibility.
Green Thumb, stop being obtuse. No fuckin way a SECDEF can spot check every little thing. That’s why he have subordinate leaders to execute his orders and policies.
^^^Made me think of this…
Alex Wong, you say? In keeping with my WWII nostalgia, I shall borrow a line from several WWII movies—“You haf relatives still in ze olde country, nicht wahr?”.
I don’t think this was intended as comedy, but I still had to laugh:
https://hotair.com/david-strom/2025/03/27/democrats-are-actually-kinda-funny-talking-about-signal-flap-n3801184
Thanks for the link to an excellent analysis.
Definitely funny.
It is more than “funny.” This whole flap is a bullshit filled nothing burger, cuz that is all they have except their lawfare to keep their imported illegal criminals killing, raping, and terrorizing us.
I think everybody know we’re whuppin’ on the Houthis already. Just sayin’.
“We’re coming in from the north.”
lololol