Hamas v. Israel, tunnel chapter

| December 9, 2023

It’s well known that Hamas likes to literally hide underground behind civilian shields like schools and hospitals. However, seems they have been busy little beavers burrowers since 2015 when the Palestinian populace elected them to run Gaza.

The Palestinian Islamist group said before the now eight-week-old war in the Gaza Strip that it had hundreds of kilometres of tunnels – a network comparable in size to the New York subway system – to protect and serve as operational bases.

To date the Israelis say they have uncovered over eight hundred tunnel entrances.

For comparison, there are only 365 square kilometers to the whole Gaza area, and Israel hasn’t really been boots-on-the-ground in well over half of it. Whole lot of holes ion the ground, and a lot of hidey holes.

“The tunnel shafts were located in civilian areas, many of which were near or inside civilian buildings and structures, such as schools, kindergartens, mosques and playgrounds,” the military said in a statement on Sunday.

The statement, summarising anti-tunnel operations so far, followed near-daily accounts to the media by troops who said they uncovered access shafts in civilian sites.  Reuters

The army said it had destroyed over half so far.   Some news sources, like NBC News, allege that the Israelis are setting up pumps and pipelines to flood the Hamas tunnel network with sea water.

The plan to pump water into the tunnels, the officials said, is among the options being explored by Israel to destroy the system, which has emerged as a central goal of the Gaza campaign. Israel’s military declined to comment on the flooding tactic, which was first reported by The Wall Street Journal.

But in the past, it has said the tunnels have been used to conceal hostages, weapons and fighters who can travel across the Gaza Strip without exposing themselves to airstrikes and ambush invading ground forces. Hamas leaders have boasted the tunnels are hundreds of miles long and full of traps.

They are also a hiding place for the group’s leaders.  NBC News

Think a key word in there is “hostages”. Which leads to the unhappy released hostages:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faced harsh criticism from freed hostages and relatives of those still being held captive by Hamas during a war cabinet meeting, according to leaked audio of the heated event.

Recordings from Tuesday’s meeting revealed that the freed hostages had felt abandoned by their government during their weeks of captivity in Gaza, with several people shouting “Shame!” at Netanyahu while one woman accused Israel of conducting airstrikes near the place she and others were being held.

The woman went on to blast Israel’s intelligence network, alleging that the government had “no information” at all about the hostages’ location given that their holding place was shelled during the IDF’s bombardments in northern Gaza.

The prime minister reiterated that it was Hamas that broke the temporary cease-fire when it allegedly refused to free the remaining female captives, as per the agreement, which the US and Qatar helped to broker.

The civilians who attended the meeting told ynet that they were displeased with the session, saying their concerns were not heard and that “Netanyahu’s reply was curt, and he seemed detached from the conversation.”  NY Post

She got kidnapped by Hamas, Israel forced her release, and she is ticked that it wasn’t fast enough. Right. Think that says something about entitlement? I remember a phrase that “some people would complain if they were hanged with a new rope”.  Seems applicable.

Category: Antiwar crowd, Israel

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fm2176

My unsolicited opinion is that the tunnels need to be rendered unusable. I personally despise any sort of tunnel, despite growing up crawling through drainpipes and hanging out inside of the large stormwater runoffs. Dropped my pork rinds once and found out the hard way the bag wasn’t sealed when I ate a soggy one. Had to use the Pepsi Big Slam to wash the taste out of my mouth…

I’m not usually claustrophobic, but the Fort Pickett tunnel running across their MOUT site got me to turn around after a couple of minutes traversing it. Trying to duck walk and crawl through the darkness wasn’t for me.

Tunnel systems offer a distinct tactical advantage for both the defense and offense. If the enemy can pop up nearly anywhere, before egressing the tunnel a few blocks away after discarding their equipment to blend in with the local populace, it’s a problem. If IDF troops aren’t actively clearing the tunnels due to suspected traps and unknown enemy strength, that only compounds things. Hamas #1 pops off a few rounds at a patrol from the mosque, then drops his equipment and walks out of the hospital. Hamas #2 picks up that equipment, goes to the daycare, and engages a different patrol a few blocks away, before dropping the equipment for Hamas #3 and emerging from the house of a seemingly innocent elderly family.

As for former hostages criticizing those who helped secure their freedom, enjoy what you got. Let’s play “Would you rather?” Be restrained, held against your will, subjected to torture and worse, and uncertain of survival (be it at the hands of Hamas or the IDF mistakenly bombing your location)? Or, free and able to go on with life despite being concerned about loved ones still in captivity and thinking about if that Israeli bomb had struck one block over from where it did?

11B-Mailclerk

They are installing seawater pipes and pumps. At some point they start slowly flooding them.

A river from the sea. Heh.

If the Israelis really up their game, they will start Mossad to collecting Ham-ass hostages. Once bigwigs start getting pinched, the game changes. Especially if some get executed for war crimes.

STSC(SW/SS)

Not just Hamass big wigs but their benefactors as well. If they want to finance terrorism, let them face the consequences as well.

fm2176

But that might implicate some of “US”… As an American, I support everyone’s right to free speech. Having a sick sense of humor and being a believer in human rights for the “right side”, I think we should reopen those Dem internment camps that FDR so loved in the 1940s and toss everyone supporting Hamas in them, along with the illegals. Transgender college professors and students can sit around talking about the finer points of Islamic fanaticism with some bona fide Hamas militants that have likely crossed our southern border.

I’ll be objective here and say we can have attractive Israeli women placed in the camps as well. Have Dead Sea Spa cosmetic kiosks placed around the internment camps with armed guards. Those transgender college professors and students are gonna need makeup, and we all know that most of the professors have money to blow (get your mind out of the gutter), especially Sam Bankman-Fried’s. The young Israeli women can spend their commissions in the local economy while paying taxes to support our “aid” to Israel and surrounding entities (hmm…which countries border Israel, I wonder?).

Last edited 2 months ago by fm2176
26Limabeans

“executed for war crimes”

Nuremberg trials and subsequent sentences being carried
out were not kept from school age children when I was one.
Todays school age children are brain washed, rinsed and dried.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

Interesting that the Germans signed the surrender paper work in may of 1945 but the war was not really over untill 1947 when the Hitler Youth teens turned into gurillas killing our Military people over there until a special unit was formed to go after these teens and kill everyone of them until they were all gone.No trial, no nothing.

11B-Mailclerk

There were Japanese “holdouts”, also. Last one finally came in during the 70s. That’s pretty stubborn. (There may have been others that died of old age.)

timactual

Sounds interesting. got a source?

ChipNASA

I know I am resurrecting, not quite cold, dead zombie thread, but this too piqued my curiosity.

I found two references to the Werwolf

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/nazi-werewolves-who-terrorized-allied-soldiers-end-wwii-180970522/

The second link is somewhat dubious I would think but maybe not

https://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2014/09/sad-fate-of-hitler-youth-boys-in-1945.html?m=1#google_vignette

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

I still say that the IDF needs to dissolve a (salt) water soluble, heavier than air, toxic gas into the water that they pump into the tunnels.
As the water evaporates or soaks into the tunnel, it leaves the gas behind to be activated by the next set of assholes who try to use the tunnels.

I read somewhere, can’t find it now unfortunately, but they were saying propane is heavier than air, and they gave a ratio of 2 to 10 to 1 ratio mix rate. The article also implied that pure oxygen added into that mix would make for a rather large and impressive boom.

Seems to me, you could sell tickets ( think movie “the burbs”), and have pizza and beer delivered.

26Limabeans

Couple of rounds from my Chessie’s ass would clear them out.
I literally pull over and get out of the truck gasping for air when
he lets one go.
If a cop pulled me over I wouldn’t blame him for drawing his
service weapon. It’s that bad.

fm2176

I know the feeling. The lab lets out a human-sounding one every now and then. The cur has been known to gas us out on occasion but is generally pretty complacent. The temporary husky has some bad ones, that make the other two and me run far away.

Last edited 2 months ago by fm2176
MustangCPT

My late Lab mix Blondie ripped one close to my head once. I retaliated by throwing the comforter over both of us and giving him a Dutch Oven. My wife got really mad at me for that one!🤣

I miss that dog…😢

26Limabeans

“I miss that dog”

Sorry for your loss. I’m on my 5th Chessie and I
miss the previous 4 no matter what they did….

fm2176

I can only imagine. The Lab is nearly 14 and just pissed off the wife a couple of days ago. He likes grabbing his little interactive mouth tenants like mice (when our NOVA house was invaded during the 2022 winter storm) and both moles and turtles he found down this way as a puppy. We have to put the hedgehog down next week, and he managed to get hold of her for the third time, happy as hell looking but not harming her more than her advanced age already has (she’s over 6 years, well past the expectancy). Needless to say, the wife isn’t happy and has a new nickname for the perpetual Good Boy (in my opinion) that starts with ‘A’ and ends with ‘Hole’. 🦔🐶

Milo Mindbender

I made great use of the tunnels in the MOUT site at Ft McClellan back in the early 90’s. Was a pretty good, but tame version of a tunnel rat, not issues as an official MOS, but still handy during exercises.

Slow Joe

That take on the cabinet meeting seems like anti Netanyahu propaganda. Some people really, really hate him.

Prior Service

The tunnels should already have been long-since denied to Hamas. Pump them full of colored smoke to see where all the exits are, with just a hint of CS in it. Get pictures of the rising smoke columns all over the place to exploit in the media. Then flood ‘em. Emphasize ssslllooowwwllllly filling the tunnels so they aren’t hammered in the media for “flooding” or “drowning” Hamas (truth is the tunnels couldn’t be instantly filled anyway…). Then “Whack a mole” (with 7.62) the military age males that start popping up in weird places.

George

If they don’t come out from the CS, they can always throw a match to clear out the CS…

USMC Steve

Bring back the old Vietnam era gas known as CN-DM. That was some vicious shit.

KoB

The FIRST (ht2 CW) casualty of war is the truth. What is the truth about this latest in the never ending “War in the Middle East”? Several truths come to mind…War is dangerous to children and other living things…Nobody wants to be a tunnel rat…or a hostage…The never ending war will not end until the last two (2) inhabitants of this area kill one another with a rock.

I don’t fault Israel for wanting to defend themselves. If I was surrounded by people that constantly shouted out for my death and destruction, I’d fight back too…bringing every weapon to bear. Collateral damage? Yep, gonna happen. Keep it to a minimum? Good luck with that. The “Promised Land” holds no promise for peace…ever.

26Limabeans

I have some damage assessment photos from my dad’s
bombing missions taken during the mission.
Each hit dotted with a red mark but pretty obvious without it.
In one of them you can clearly see a train locomotive standing
up vertical with coal car attached.

“Collateral damage?”
All one need do is look up “Dresden”. Unless of course they
don’t allow that sort of thing on line. Maybe a local public
Library that hasn’t gone woke yet.

Skivvy Stacker

I think the proper response to those former hostages would be; “well, we’re sorry we treated you so badly. We’ll send you back to Hamas right away.”

Odie

^^^this^^^

Old tanker

Hamas was elected? I seem to recall a news story that said hamas simply stated they are in charge and any who object can make their displeasure know at the wall out back next to the friendly firing squad. You know, the typical election of tyrants.

I am surprised at the reaction to the Israeli activity since the attack by hamas. It’s not like they are going to have knowledge of all the locations where hostages are kept and that hamas is simply going to turn them over upon being asked. I mean that isn’t typical of a terrorist organization engaging in hostile action, is it? What the hell do they expect, an immediate rescue of everyone taken? I would think they would understand that hamas has a vote in that scenario.

11B-Mailclerk

They were. It’s a major reason the PA stopped having elections. Ham-ass wins instead of PA flunkies.

A Proud Infidel®™

Well, if that turbo-Karen wants to complain about her rescue, then she can go back to ham-ass! Their hiding among schools and hospitals using civilians as human shields is typical MO of fleabag third world terrorists.

Odie

Some people would bitch if they got hung with a new rope.

AW1Ed

City-states have been flushing sewers to be rid of vermin for centuries.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

We Had a retired NYC prison guard who worked security in our place and told me that he was in the same outfit as the Cu Chi tunnel rats and was pissed off after he read the book that his name was left out.

fm2176

I’m different, I’ve shared the August 2003 “Rakkasan!” article from Esquire magazine here a few times (anyone curious can look it up). Most of my squad’s mentioned, along with a number of my platoon and company mates, but I’m left out of any mention of the Lost Boys. Good times, it was an experience, but one that I’d rather remember and occasionally read about without anyone else knowing anything about what little I did or said back then. That brief period didn’t, and doesn’t define my life, and there’s no need for individual recognition for something that it took a team to do.

e.conboy

Thank you for doing a job I couldn’t. My cousin also served. 🇺🇸

Blaster

Well, there seems to be a connection between the American left wing, progressives and the Israeli leftist. I can’t quite figure it out.

Whatever!

Keep playing the game of “how you think it should be” Against the game of “how it is”! Keep blaming the people that are risking themselves to save your ass, while praising the the ones that are doing you harm/wrong!

What the hell is wrong with people! Especially on the left?

I keep saying that at some point, common sense has to take over.

WHEN?

I’m afraid that this “victim” doesn’t seem to be much of a victim!

But, who am I to judge!

ANCRN

People don’t understand war. In the 80s I did some time in Germany. My job was to kill as many Soviets as possible before they killed me. That was it in a nutshell. A very sobering life lesson that stuck with me for the next 20 some years. Not enough people understand that reality.

5JC

The Russians are now claiming this will be a war crime If carried out. They are saying it falls under the rule of not allowing surrender. Seeing how the Russians are experts on war crimes they may have a point.