The irony of IVAW (Updated)
The IRAQ VETERANS Against the War issued a press release last week about their opposition to increasing troop strength in Afghanistan. In the press release, they quoted two members, Jose Vasquez, the Executive Director and Donna Perdue. Vasquez’ quote;
“We’re entering our seventh year of war in Afghanistan,” said Jose Vasquez, IVAW’s executive director. “Casualties among the Afghan people are rising while U.S. and Coalition forces are facing their deadliest year since the invasion. This war dehumanizes the Afghan people and denies them their right to self-determination. We have members who serve in Iraq and in Afghanistan and we believe it’s time for them all to come home.”
And Perdue’s quote;
IVAW member Donna Perdue said she believes the war in Afghanistan is threatening our national security.
“The war becomes larger and more destructive, the number of necessary American forces will further increase, and the cycle will continue to rage on,” said Perdue. “This cycle will continue to strain the struggling economy and the already over-taxed military. It’s imperative that the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan end.”
The irony, of course, is that neither of the members have been to the war on terror. We’ve already discussed Jose Vasquez a 14-year veteran who suddenly became a conscientious objector when he had to go to war. So who is the Perdue chick? Here’s her profile at IVAW;
Perdue’s duty stations over 22 years of service; Albany, GA; Iwakuni, Japan; Indianapolis, IN; Camp Lejeune, NC; New Orleans, LA; Camp Pendleton, CA; Kansas City, MO; Baltimore, MD; Quantico, VA; Vienna, OH; Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Yemen, Uganda, Eritrea, Bahrain, Somalia, Tanzania, Sudan. She retired in 2006 yet still missed the war against terror and thinks she has some moral authority to influence US policy in the war.
Combined, Perdue and Vasquez have 36 years of military experience and neither have heard a shot fired in anger, yet that’s who IVAW quotes in their press releases. It makes me wonder if they have any iraq Veterans left in the IRAQ VETERANS Against the War.
The resolution states “there is no battlefield solution to terrorism, and any escalation of the war in Afghanistan will only serve to exacerbate the plight of the Afghan people, destabilize the region, and further the breakdown of our military.”
Says who? A bunch of COs and pogues?
By the way, I’ve got some conflicting information on Perdue and her career. What i have says she was an E-6 – can some of you guys who can get to Marine On Line check on that? Screen capture it and send it to me if you can. I keep a record of that stuff.
UPDATE: Thanks to CplUSMC93 who pulled her MOL file, we now know that Donna Perdue isn’t a Gunnery Sergeant like she claims. She retired as a Staff Sergeant.
It’s like they can’t help it.
Yes, Donna, I’ve now started a file on you, too.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Phony soldiers
Vasquez says: “This war dehumanizes the Afghan people and denies them their right to self-determination.”
Yes, let’s revert to Taliban rule, since everyone knows that was real democracy in action. And what is dehumanizing about a woman being forced to wear a head-to-toe bag over her body, or being raped?
I would not be surprised if the reason the people want us out of Afghanistan is because they want the funds for their own projects.
Willy, according to the loopy leftists like Whoopi Goldberg, what the Taliban did wasn’t “rape-rape”.
“There is no battlefield solution to terrorism”, so their solution to terrorism is to surrender to it? Seems that’s what they’re saying.
Jonn,
Check your admin email, I sent a screenshot from my locator.
I’m pointing out that Somalia and the Sudan aren’t exactly walks in the park of happy flowers, not to mention the other crazy African countries.
Not saying they are not. But if you are in a group that advertises that you are something your not then what is the point of it all? It is the reason why I thought that IVAW was relevant because of that.
But with more and more people in this group have never BEEN there makes the name misleading. It would be better off renaming it Soldiers Against the War. At least it would be honest.
Again, as I’ve said before: the war is the time period. If somebody said they were a WWII veteran, would you say “Oh, no you’re not. You never left England. There were no battles in England”
Um, what? Please.
What about her lying about her rank? I guess we’re just going to forget about that while we argue the minutiae like always.
Actually I was going to avoid admitting that despite having an uncle in the Marines, I’ve never managed to pick up enough information about them to be able to talk adequately on the subject. I have no clue what MOL is, and don’t know what your screenshot is from. You’ve pulled some screenshots from places like military.com, which aren’t exactly valid records, but I don’t know enough about the Marines to know which it is.
However, I guess I’m busted on my Marine ignorance.
MOL is like AKO. I also have her DoD record from Military.com which has the same information. I always use two sources these days.
Your WWII analogy sucks. It’s like someone claiming to be a Vietnam veteran when they were stationed in Japan or Okinawa.
By the way, using the Chiroux lesson as a guide, since she was a journalist, I’d guess all of those places were where she was sent to write a story. I’m pretty sure she wasn’t stationed in Somalia or the Sudan, unless she was in the embassy detail. The bio I found on her says she spent a year (2005-2006) in “the Horn of Africa”. That could mean a thousand things given her list of countries.
Someone else wrote to tell me that Marines have an “up or out” policy – if she didn’t make E-7 by 18 years, she was out. So I’m guessing that she spent a lot of time in the Reserves – looking at the list of places she’d like us think she was stationed bears that out.
“The resolution states “there is no battlefield solution to terrorism,. . . . .” (I’m guessing this is a statement from the IVAW charter. But no matter who said it).
If I may counter-quote, from that great military vetern, LtCol Dubois, when challanged, “My mother says that violence never settles anything.”
“So? I’m sure the city fathers of Carthage would be glad to hear that. Why doesn’t your mother tell them so? Or why don’t YOU?”
“You’re making fun of me! Everyone knows that Carthage was destroyed!”
“You seem to be unaware of it. Since you do know it, wouldn’t you say that violence had settled their destinies rather throughly? However, I was not making fun of you personally; I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea — a practice I shall always follow. Anyone who clings to the historically untrue — and throughly immoral — doctrine that ‘violence never settles anything’ I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms.”
To continue on a different subject;
I was active duty during Iraq I, Grenada & a couple of other conflicts. But I was not in or at any of those conflicts. So I would never call myself an Iraq I vetern, or Grenada vetern, or any-other-conflict vetern if I wasn’t there.
RE: Army Sergeant & WWII vets; WWII was an entire WAR, that encompassed every military person. So to say that “I was a WWII vet” is ok. BUT, if one were stationed in England during the BATTLE (not WAR) of Berlin, but claimed to have been a B-of-B vet, this would NOT be ok.
Understand the difference?
I guess for those IVAW vets who want to join IVAW, but were never in either Iraq or Afghanistan, it’s a fine semantic difference. If you can live with the moral dishonesty, fine. But if you come up to me, and claim to be an Iraq vet, I’m going to quiz you about where you were stationed. And if you were never stationed in Iraq, you have just lost ALL credibility. And you will get an appropriate response.
San Pablo CA, Ft. Bliss TX, Camp Roberts CA, Ft. Leonard Wood MO, Ft Benning GA, West Germany/FRG (x2), West Berlin, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, Saudi Arabia, Iraq (x2), Kuwait(x3), Presidio of SF CA, Ft. Rucker AL (x5), Eglin AFB FL, Panama, Honduras, Columbia, Hunter AAF GA, Jacksonville NAS FL, Ft. Eustis VA, NTC/Ft. Irwin CA, MCLB Barstow CA, North Island NAS CA, USMC MWTC/Bridgeport CA, Ft. Bragg NC(x2), Egypt, Israel, Czech Republic, Poland, France, Nellis AFB NV, Ft. Hood TX, Hurlburt Field AFB FL, Ft. Sill OK (x3), Fredricksburg VA, WRAMC DC, and Ft. Campbell KY.
When you list all of the places that you have ever deployed to, training at, or been TDY, it makes for an impressive resume. Can I include all the airports that I used when on official travel??
San Pablo CA, Ft. Bliss TX, Camp Roberts CA, Ft. Leonard Wood MO, Ft Benning GA, West Germany/FRG (x2), West Berlin, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, Saudi Arabia, Iraq (x2), Kuwait(x3), Presidio of SF CA, Ft. Rucker AL (x5), Eglin AFB FL, Panama, Honduras, Columbia, Hunter AAF GA, Jacksonville NAS FL, Ft. Eustis VA, NTC/Ft. Irwin CA, MCLB Barstow CA, North Island NAS CA, USMC MWTC/Bridgeport CA, Ft. Bragg NC(x2), Egypt, Israel, Czech Republic, Poland, France, Nellis AFB NV, Ft. Hood TX, Hurlburt Field AFB FL (, Ft. Sill OK(x3), Fredricksburg VA, WRAMC DC, and Ft. Campbell KY.
When you list all of the places that you have ever deployed to, training at, or been TDY, it makes for an impressive resume. Can I include all the airports that I used when on official travel??
San Pablo CA, Ft. Bliss TX, Camp Roberts CA, Ft. Leonard Wood MO, Ft Benning GA, West Germany/FRG (x2), West Berlin, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, Saudi Arabia, Iraq (x2), Kuwait(x3), Presidio of SF CA, Ft. Rucker AL (x5), Eglin AFB FL, Panama, Honduras, Columbia, Hunter AAF GA, Jacksonville NAS FL, Ft. Eustis VA, NTC/Ft. Irwin CA, MCLB Barstow CA, North Island NAS CA, USMC MWTC/Bridgeport CA, Ft. Bragg NC(x2), Egypt, Israel, Czech Republic, Poland, France, Nellis AFB NV, Ft. Hood TX, Hurlburt Field AFB FL(x2), Ft. Sill OK(x3), Fredricksburg VA, WRAMC DC, and Ft. Campbell KY.
When you list all of the places that you have ever deployed to, training at, or been TDY, it makes for an impressive resume. Can I include all the airports that I used when on official travel??
Sorry, double post.
AS
But World War Two is a bad example because the conflict involved the entire world. So that is why when people say they served during ww2 that most likely they where a veteran.
But if you try to use the same approach for say the Korean War it is not the same.
Jonn said “I also have her DoD record from Military.com which has the same information. I always use two sources these days.”
Really??? Why is that? lol
AS,
That is such horsecrap, I have just lost all respect I might have still had for you.
Panama, DS I, Somalia, Kosovo and GWOT: all happened on my watch. None of them can I claim. Neither Berlin Wall falling or multiple Embassy attacks.
I can claim Bosnia, because I WAS THERE!
Gosh I wonder if I can also claim Grenada, my college roomie was in ROTC dontyaknow.
Another liar in IVAW? No way! Can you contact The Corps and get something official?
Casey; It’s as official as what I would find in AKO on you. Like I said, MOL is the Marine Corps version of Army Knowledge Online.
Jonn, B Woodman, Sporkmaster:
I suppose more accurate terminology might be GWOT veterans, to make sure to include everyone, but the organization isn’t against the whole of the GWOT, so it would get confusing. However, again, I think that it’s hard to define who served in a war when there are a lot of things for the war which are done from other countries, like medical support, etc. People can have served in the war without being physically in country, and I don’t think it’s fair to them to devalue their contribution just because they weren’t being shot at.
BNG: Dude, you never have respect for me, don’t try to kid anybody. However, none of those except GWOT were actual wars. I would say that combat support from all of those could claim them though.
AS,
Let me get this right, we can not denigrate the contributions of those who do not actually serve in theater, but then you turn around in the very next paragraph and denigrate and demean those who served in “Operations Other Than War”? Hypocrisy, thy name is AS. Starting to sound like some of those WW2 vets who claimed Vietnam was not a “real” war. Guess I can tell my buddy to return his Purple Heart from Panama since it was not a “real” war. Guess the MoH’s awarded to MSG Gordon and SFC Shughart should be revoked for their actions in Mogadishu. Guess we wasted money and effort in bringing CDR Speicher home this yr after his plane was shotdown in 1991 during DS.
AS, when you hit the bottom of the hole you are in, quit digging and ask for help to get out. You might want to start listening to some of the more senior NCO’s and Officers who have tried to reach out to you. Your position is indefensible. BTW- you are not following AR 670-1, as it appears you are wearing your ass as a hat.
I made the mistake of reading AS’s comments, so I just got to ask, what part of the GWOT is IVAW *NOT* against?
She’ll say that they have no resolutions against other places, like the Philipines.
Then I will respond that you have people like Matthis and Kokesh saying all troops outside the country are engaged in empire building, and that other IVAW members are cozying up to America haters like Venezuela.
Then she’ll respond with something none of us understand, declare herself the winner and me mean, and then I will wonder at the genesis of my cerebral pain.
So let’s just skip all that and I will say to you AS:
Well Played.
AS
Except that is not what the IVAW defines itself. For the IVAW website;
A group of veterans from Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom
Not a group in support of ether operations. Yes they can serve in war but that does not make them a veteran of that Operation.
I cannot claim to be a Afghanistan Vet though I was very close to there when I was in Iraq.
For me you have to have boots on the ground for enough time to get a Combat patch to be considered a Veteran of a operation. That is why the IVAW was suppose to have a unique view point because they where to have based their views from actually being there.
Is there a chance that when one retires, MOL lists them at their retirement pay grade rather than actual? What I mean is it is my understanding (and I could be wrong) that if someone retires less than two years after being promoted, they are compensated for the previous pay grade. So maybe MOL lists retirees at their retirement compensation grade?
Not defending this person, but do want to make sure all possible issues are resolved before calling her a fraud and liar.
In 1961 or ’62, I was on maneuvers in the Philippines; can I claim to be a veteran of the WW-II battle for Manilla? After all they are on the same Island. And in ’63, I got drunker than a snake with a Korean War MOH holder. Can I claim to have been his “Battle Buddy”? ,,,,just sayin’.
“Learned all I need to know about Islam on 9/11!”
Matt,
It was not my attempt to denigrate the service of those who served in operations that were not termed wars. However, I was saying that the situations there seem a little simpler. If you will see above, I was pointing out that places like Somalia, etc did often have shooting.
TSO: You are such a dork.
Sporkmaster…thank you.
AS…Re read Sporkmaster #25.
Perdue misleads to gain credibility and that is WRONG. What part don’t you get? A common thing among “those” folks,hmmm?
Let’s see, I served during the Cold War…people kinda laugh, even if we were on alert a time or two and preparing to “fight”!
I served during Grenada. It gets me into the American Legion, but I lay no claims anywhere. You see, I am not a combat vet. All I need for validation is to say I served and proudly.
I have been to many places when active duty required, but I don’t tell tales or fish stories to make me bigger than I am.
Why doesn’t that sink in with these people, I wonder?
TSO,
I like your kind of “dork”! It would sure suck to be an IVAW member.
Sporkmaster:
I’m not sure where you’re seeing that-whenever I look at the IVAW website, it usually has a header on the top stating membership requirements and encouraging people to join and it doesn’t say that.
DefendUSA: I am not calling TSO a dork because of his politics, and it is not an insult, it’s a semi-affectionate annoyance statement.
I found it when I was looking it up on google. When it gives you the results it is in the description of the website link.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ivaw&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Defend, I actually got a schematic the other day that suggested I am more “Geek” than Dork. I think the official classification though is “Thank God I have a real girlfriend and not an imaginary one from the Niagra Falls area.”
AS: Can I join IVAW??? VFP won’t let me in, cuz they cry everytime I walk in the room.
AS,
By your definition of veteran of a campaign, all one has to do is be in support of it. So that means everyone at BAMC/WRAMC and any other hospital that takes in patients from theater are verterans of OIF/OEF. The supply people at mobilization sites are included. I am sorry, if you are in Kuwait and go into Iraq– you are not truly a Veteran of OIF. You served in support of the campaign and were necessary for success. You may be oficially a veteran of the campaign as far as the VA and military is concerned, but you are being dishonest in telling people you are a Veteran of Iraq. If you do identify yourself as a Veteran Of either campaign and you were not actually in theater or you sat on a FOB, you have a moral obligation to make that CRYSTAL clear. There are young men and women (and some of us not that young) who have faced the hells of combat daily and many who have given life, limb, and even sanity to earn that honor. It is a disgrace to every single one of them for these non-combat support people to try and claim that same honor on some sort of technical issue. I tire of the PC idea that because you helped in the war effort in some manner that entitles you to the honor of calling one’s self a Veteran of the campaign.
Membership Eligibility: Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is a group of men and women who have served or continue to serve in the U.S. military since September 11th, 2001. We are calling for: Immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces from Iraq; and Reparations for the human and structural damages Iraq has suffered; and Full benefits, adequate healthcare (including mental health), and other support for returning servicemen and women. IVAW welcomes all post-9/11 veterans and active duty servicemen and women from all branches of military service, National Guard members, and reservists who support this mission to join our ranks. Please provide verification of service, click here for the acceptable paperwork. Information on proof of service: If you are interested in joining IVAW but do not have a copy of your proof of service (DD-214), you may request a copy from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis via form SF-180. For more information, please visit http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/. Iraq Veterans Against the War is committed to protecting the integrity of our organization and reserves the right to verify all members’ service records by submitting a request to the Official Military Personnel Files under the Freedom of Information Act. Forging and presenting a military or naval discharge certificate (DD-214) is a federal offense, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $100,000 fine. If you are eligible, please use our online application or download our membership form (PDF) and send it to our office today! By becoming a member, you are not obligated to the organization in any way at all. Your participation in the organization and our events is in your hands. However, now that you have joined the family, we will look forward to meeting you and will contact you to invite you to events. Some things to expect as a member of IVAW: Connection to hundreds of veterans across the country and around the world Invitation to IVAW events (meetings, rallies, activities, etc.) Requests to speak with the press Requests for participation in special projects with artists, students, etc. Requests to participate in/speak at local events Supportive… Read more »
“We’re entering our seventh year of war in Afghanistan,”
Man, you guys are truly cold hearted, making fun of people without all their fingers and toes.
Gary,
What you saw from AS was her attempt to justify her membership in IVAW.
AS,
Sorry, a clerk typist typing up a press release upon a soldier’s return does not qualify as a war veteran.
Also, you attempt to build GWOT up by downplaying the others. Just know that the GWOT carries no more weight than DSI as far as a “War” goes. All three (DSI, Afghan and Iraq) were authorized by a joint resolution of congress. Bosnia, DSI and Afghanistan were specifically approved by UN resolution.
I did have some respect for you. I don’t anymore.
I suppose that IEVAIAABTOPAOK didn’t flow off the tongue as nice as IVAW.
Iraq Era Veterans Against Iraq and Afghanistan But The Other Places Are OK.
Blogging is not usually my cup of tea, but recent events led me to this site and a few others that are very interesting, to say the least. As a detailed Recruiter for the Army (read: displaced Infantryman) I received an email last week alerting us to the “National Day of Resistance Against Military Recruiters” on October 6th. This was called for by We Are Not Your Soldiers, which led me to blogs about IVAW and eventually Matthis Chiroux, Ward Reilly and other colorful spokesmen for anti-war veteran’s associations (being nice here). Anyway, here in Louisiana yesterday was a non-issue and I went about my business like always. I have my own personal opinions about the wars, but they are just that, personal. I volunteered to serve my country and have done so for eight years so far. The Army has provided me with a way of life I would not have known otherwise, and to speak out against it would be to bite the hand that feeds me. As I tell some of the prospective recruits, I am a Soldier first and foremost and hence do not engage in political discussions. A lawful order is just that. If I don’t like something I can either put up, shut up or get out. As for many of these “vets” exposed on this site, I find it amusing that most are/were support or service support personnel and/or never served a day in Iraq/Afghanistan/Vietnam/whatever the case may be. Chiroux’s haunted experiences in the Army particularly get to me as a close friend of mine also fought IRR and beat it. SPC Mac joined the day I did, went through OSUT with me and, unlike myself, deployed to Afghanistan two weeks after reporting to our first unit. Less than six months after getting home we all went to Kuwait in preparation for the invasion. After that I PCS’ed while he stayed with the unit and deployed to Iraq a second time. Finally, after five years he ETS’ed, with almost 2 1/2 years spent in theater as an Infantry Soldier, a divorce and a… Read more »
The war on terrorists does extend to Africa… Where do you think that they train their fighters… We run black ops there(duh). The Donna Perdue I knew carried a camera. She has seen a great deal of suffering in Africa. She is not a warrior. She was up for Gysgt…I dont know? Is she a liar? Yes, but not concerning her opinions. She lies mostly to herself, justifying her poor judgement over the years. Everyone however, is intitled to their opinions no matter how grand they remember their place in the big scheme of things. Is she an expert on military politics (right)? Mrs. Perdue has been running from the truth for years… nothing has changed here (she knows this).
I have served. I have bled. I am tired of seeing young men die, but I am not qualified or well enough informed to sort out the right and wrong concerning this war.
I do support all of you holding the line out there for us here in the USA. I remember the cold nights, poor communication with loved ones, and lost relationships. I also remember the pride I felt while I was serving. It takes a special person to commit to that. No matter what your opinions- you are all my heros. Thank You!