Key witness in Floyd trial will take the 5th.
How this will affect the trial remains to be seen. The aftermath is a foregone conclusion- if Derek Chauvin is found guilty, innocent or the result is a mistrial, there will be widespread demonstrations of civil unrest.
LIVE UPDATES: Derek Chauvin trial continues Thursday
Fox News will present coverage surrounding the historic trial throughout the week
Witness testimony is expected to resume Thursday in the murder trial of former Minneapolis police officer, Derek Chauvin.
Meanwhile, a key witness who was with George Floyd on the day he died, has informed the court that he will invoke the Fifth Amendment if asked to testify in Chauvin’s trial. The Hennepin County Public Defender’s Office filed a notice on behalf of Morries Lester Hall, 42, who was in the car with Floyd when police approached him for allegedly using a fake $20 bill at Cup Foods in Minneapolis.
“Mr. Morries Lester Hall, through undersigned counsel, hereby provides notice to all parties in this matter that if called to testify he will invoke his fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination,” said a notice filed by Assistant Public Defender Adrienne Cousins. “Therefore, counsel for Mr. Hall respectfully moves this court to quash the subpoena … and release Mr. Hall from any obligations therein.”
On Wednesday, jurors saw police officers’ body camera footage showing how an initial confrontation over an alleged misdemeanor last May led to Floyd’s death.
A transcript from the officers’ body camera footage in the moments leading up to Floyd’s death was also released. The dialogue took place between Floyd and Minneapolis police officers Alex Kueng, Thomas Lane, Tou Thao, and Chauvin, who is charged with murder and manslaughter.
Floyd, a Black man, died after Chauvin appeared on video pressing his knee to the man’s neck on May 25 last year. Prosecutors say Chauvin knelt on Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes, 29 seconds, as he pleaded that he couldn’t breathe.
Prosecutors contend that Floyd’s death was caused by Chauvin’s knee. The defense has argued that Chauvin did what he was trained to do, and instead blame Floyd’s illegal drug use, heart disease, high blood pressure, and the adrenaline flowing through his body.
Read the entire article here: Fox News
It is impossible to kill someone by placing the knee on the neck. The knee is too wide to apply proper pressure on the small portion of the neck where the carotid artery flows.
Anybody who can clearly enunciate the phrase “I can’t breathe” multiple times is breathing just fine.
Exactly.
Not necessarily. Talking means that some air isn’t getting into the lungs. Doesn’t mean it is enough to survive. If you only drank a teaspoon of a water a day, you would die in 3-4 days.
“is” not “isn’t”
People *can* talk while in respiratory distress, yes. However, there are obvious signs of their distress. These can include shortness of breath, obvious exertion, diminishing volume, increasingly hoarse/raspy voice, etc. Floyd was yelling “I can’t breathe” for several minutes while exhibiting none of these signs. That doesn’t happen in someone who is actually having any difficulty breathing, hence where I said “clearly enunciate.”
I believe it’s possible that the drugs in his system made him *think* he couldn’t breathe. But it’s also possible that it was incarceritis, a condition commonly found in repeat-offender shitbags (like Floyd).
Your a firefighter? Incompetent much?
The notion that someone who can talk can adequately beathe is a myth that was debunked in emergency medicine decades ago.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-4186
I guess you just bumble fucked through your EMT recertifications. Passing score is 70%. I guess you can work as a firefighter for decades a never learn a god damn thing.
Aaaaand he’s off his meds again. Your volunteer work as an antifa medic hardly qualifies you to do anything more than apply bactine and a bandaid.
Antifa “medic.” No training, no certs, zero experience, can’t even spell CPR. They’re lucky to have such a professional looking out for them!
And your level of training and experience in EMS is….?
Sorry, Lars, but you’re a moron. Again. I didn’t say “talk.” I said “clearly enunciate,” with the qualifier “repeatedly.” I’ve dealt with lots of people in various kinds of respiratory distress. Yes, it is possible for someone to talk while having difficulty breathing. However, their voice changes. They are visibly short of breath. They exert themselves by talking. If they truly “can’t breathe,” then their voice rapidly deteriorates as their lungs run out of air to expel.
Floyd was clearly enunciating in a loud voice for several minutes before showing any signs of deterioration. It is possible that in his drug-affected state, he believed he couldn’t breathe even though he was breathing fine. It is also possible that he was pulling incarceritis. The bottom line is that Chauvin was not strangling him.
Congratulations on reaching a new level of delusional stupidity.
Commissar,
The very paper you cited on this is not “decades” old. The only citation that may be considered “decades old” is one from 2000 which discusses the amount of air needed to speak (and not whether the ability to speak means you are getting enough air or not.) One has to wonder why you would misrepresent this citation.
Secondly, Floyd was complaining that he couldn’t breath when he was struggling with the officers to get him into the vehicle while handcuffed. Chauvin’s knee came later.
Floyd was a big man – bigger than any of the three officers trying to subdue him by a wide margin. Add that size difference to the drugs in his system (which both the paramedics testified could have made him harder to control, and the testimony of his fiance / girlfriend who said he had previously been aggressive, combative and “hyped up” when having taken the drugs found in his system) you have a real problem.
So my question to you is a simple one:
Given that Floyd was exhibiting the effects of the drugs in his system, was combative, would not get in the police car and continually fought officers, how would you have successfully secured him and transported him away from the scene?
” One has to wonder why you would misrepresent this citation. ”
Well, that’s one. Multitudes of us don’t wonder at all.
Lars,
As a medic for over 20 years, and based on your comments here and elsewhere, I can say that without question, you have less medical knowledge (and probably all types of knowledge) that 99% of the kids I’ve taught on the FIRST day of EMT school… and before you start you shit as above, I graduated top of my class.
Even when you have a valid point you manage to fuck it up with the presentation, which often includes exaggeration, distortion, omission……
Floyd died of a heart attack after consuming massive amounts of illegal drugs and exerting himself going a few rounds with the police. Having a knee on the neck likely contributed to his circulation problems and helped trigger the coronary, at least according the coroner.
He really shouldn’t have had a knee on his neck for nine minutes. He shouldn’t have been taking Fentanyl, fighting with the police, passing bad paper and whole litany of poor life and dietary choices that led up to his death but there you have it.
Aww, if he’d behaved and OD-ed without police involvement, his family wouldn’t have gotten $27mil.
I beg to differ. I, for one, have significant trouble breathing when I lie on my stomach. Being somewhat of a grammar nazi I would probably say “I have great difficulty breathing!” rather than “I can’t breathe!”, but the result would be the same. I am pretty sure any paramedic or EMT has also run into such people. Just because their grammar is bad does not mean they are not in distress. If I had been placed on my stomach with my hands handcuffed behind me and with someone kneeling on my neck, eventually my breathing muscles would also be too tired to work and I would also suffocate.
Do I think the officer is guilty of a crime? No. Just poor training, a lack of empathy, and a failure to monitor the condition of his prisoner. I think every officer should be put in the same positions they inflict on us civilians just to see what it is like.
Cops practice these things on other cops. They don’t do any hold, pressure point, strike, or technique on anyone that they haven’t experienced themselves. Repeatedly.
This is false.
When cops practice these techniques that do not put their weight on each other’s necks for extended periods of time.
In fact all open hand techniques are essentially trained at about 80% speed and 50% force.
Except actual grappling/combative sz which does not involve putting your knee on another handcuffed officer’s neck while they lay face down on the pavement.
And putting your knee on someone’s neck should never have filtered into law enforcement as an approved technique.
Ex police here. You’re trained not to put the full amount of weight on the neck side with most of the body weight on the lumbar region as a valid control technique. Nine minutes was too much and the officer needs retraining but criminal liability…… no. Just one ex cop and soldiers opinion.
You don’t know how to fight if you don’t know how to take a punch. You learn how to take a punch by getting punched. That’s just basic common sense. Anybody who has never done full-speed, full contact training will get their ass stomped when they get into a real altercation.
Lars might as well try to argue that the sky is green.
So I guess the military does live-fire training exercises and damage control training all wrong.
Oh, and smartass, we DO practice full speed and full weight. If they don’t they will not learn what it actually takes and feels like to subdue suspects. There are also three minute fight drills and three minute weapons retention drills. You must have been Air Force, lol.
He never tires of being wrong. I guess all those times I was proned out getting cuffed with two dudes pinning my shoulders with knees during DT weren’t real.
“You must have been Air Force, lol”
Unfortunately, the commenter known as Commissar/Cthulhu/Cockwomble was an Army Civil Affairs officer.
But we Dirt Doggies don’t claim him, though./s
How long was your “law enforcement” career, again?
Same as all his others.. cause he’s never had one.
I don’t think that he made it past his probation period with whatever Force or Department that was desperate enough to hire him!
The problem with this narrative is that the prosecution is saying that Floyd died when Chauvin placed his knee across Floyd’s carotid artery cutting oxygen carrying blood to the brain.
However, the video shows Chauvin not moving his knee after Floyd is on the ground.
This presents a problem for the prosecution as when the paramedics arrived, the paramedic testified that he searched for a pulse by placing his fingers on the carotid artery. (It too is on the video.) This of course is impossible if Chauvin had his knee across the artery itself.
“Cops practice these things on other cops.”
Precisely the wrong people to practice on. Most of us are not as physically fit or as healthy as police officers, many of us are taking meds (legal or illegal) or drugs, some have mental issues, etc.
When I was young and fit I didn’t have any trouble breathing while lying on my stomach either. I was even on the bottom of a stack of football players ( on my neck, etc.) a few times without suffering too much discomfort. I could also place both hands behind my back in a position to be handcuffed, too. These days either of those positions would put me in the hospital or a coffin.
“Most of us are not as physically fit or as healthy as police officers,”
Lol, not to disparage my brothers in blue, but you’d obviously got better standards for cops than we do around here. The ones in this area seem to have much more time in the donut line than on the firing line, or especially the gym..
Minor legal quibble: There’s no such thing as “found innocent.”
It’s Guilty or not guilty. 😉
Also I don’t know if the jury is allowed to choose a “lesser included offense” like manslaughter or aggravated assault. That’s usually up to the prosecutor to decide.
So the actual possibilities are:
1. Guilty as charged
2. Guilty of a lesser offense
3. Not guilty
4. Hung jury (= mistrial and almost certainly retrial.)
Plus lots of rioting, looting and arson if anything but possibility #1 happens.
Lock and load, hire a Roof Korean if you need. Shoot all looters on sight. Leave their bodies in the streets as a warning to the other animals.
I disagree Anon… I think the rioting will occur regardless of the outcome, even a guilty verdict.. Only the excuses will change.
That’s probably why they have concurrently charged him with multiple charges, only one of which involves the word murder. There are a couple of manslaughter type charges, a reduced level of murder, and at least one other for the multiple choice, jury gets to decide which they might like.
EDIT ABOVE: 2. should read “Guilty of a lesser offense if the court allows the jury to consider lesser offenses.”
Dunno about anyone else, but pleading the 5th always strikes me as like saying “I’m guilty as hell but don’t want to admit it.”
Lengthy but worth viewing.
Wow! Very interesting and enlightening.
Yep. Never talk to gruberment agencies.
Remember what happened to GEN Flint.
So he’ll go from a prosecution witness to a defense witness. Nothing is going to play better to a jury than one of the witnesses pleading the fifth.
The more I think about this, how on Earth did the prosecutor not give him an immunity deal? It’s been clear they want Chauvin and the other cops to hang more than they want any actual justice.
Because there’s no immunity for perjury in court. He told one story when it happened and kept telling the media and prosecutors bullshit stories to add fuel to the fire.
BUT, when he gets up in the witness chair, if he continues to spew that same rhetoric and the defense has proof he is lying, he will go to jail himself for perjury. (Which I guarantee the defense has.)
Same reason why so often witnesses later recant and/or tell the “truth” in court versus what they tell the media or post on instagram, etc etc. In court if they lie, they’re going to prison for it.
Bing!
I was curious so I did a little more research on MN Code. If he had in fact given/ sold Floyd the Fentenyl that killed him then by MN law he should be facing manslaughter or murder charges.
This could be a game changer and I imagine the defense is aware but wonder how they can bring it in.
The outcome of the trial is irrelevant. Minneapolis will burn. As will many other cities. There will never be justice in this case, just more violence and destruction.
True, but at least it won’t be an insurrection.
(Pssst!—sarcasm)
And it won’t be a surge of mostly peaceful protestors because they’re not insurgents. 😉
To avoid riots, he will most likely be found guilty even if he wasn’t. I have a feeling these jurors will do the guilty verdict because of the above and having their homes torched. The training manual on holds won’t mean shit in his case.
What’s the opposite of ‘jury nullification’?
“Wrongfully convicted”.
Once again, we see the use of the word “justice” by those demanding Chauvin’s being found guilty. As was said in “The Princess Bride”:
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
Justice is simply your day in court. Justice is what is happening now. Justice is getting to tell your side and the other side getting its say. Then it’s decision time … but the decision is not justice.
The trial itself is justice.
I agree that the outcome – which is pretty much already determined – won’t really matter. Unless they find Chauvin guilty and sentence him to be shot where he sits at the defense table, something somewhere is going to burn.
And none of it will bring George Floyd back. But then, this stopped being about George Floyd a long, long time ago.
“But then, this stopped being about George Floyd a long, long time ago.”
The best comment I’ve read. It was about George Floyd had the protests been peaceful demonstrations. But they were about the same thing they are every time. Stealing in the name of someone many of them would have shot or knifed, just for the counterfeit $20 he tried to pass.
It stopped being about George Floyd at the precise moment that George Floyd stopped being.
Yup, otherwise he wouldn’t have had six funerals, a gold coffin and crowds of mourners.
Don’t forget the $27 million dollar payout to the family of the druggie. Which the city of Minneapolis paid out prior to the trial, just in time to influence the jury.
Don’t forget the $13M in GoFundMe and $2.3M GoFundMe for his kid.
Wondering if the pregnant woman who he assaulted during that home invasion will get any compensation?
Sorry, Hack Stone should have posted a Preemptive Level IV Spew Alert on that comment. Too bad there a no murals to commemorate the terror she had to endure from this drug addicted thug.
Excellent point.
Yup. Long time girlfriend of a family relative of mine is a LA City attorney, and as liberal as they come. But even she stated time and again that justice is a PROCESS, not a result.
Sounds to me like Morries Lester Hall had some outstanding warrants before the Floyd and/or has had other run-ins with the law since.
Self-incrimination, it just that. If questioned, the defense can ask about his arrests and behavior before and after the incident, since the prosecution will without a doubt bring it up. Although they would phrase it in the best light to make him appear a model citizen who just “trying to turn his life around.
I remember him being interviewed once. He was all about justice for the murder of his friend. I guess after the trial he will be out front at Best Buy, Walmart, and all the pharmacies shouting “Floyd didn’ git no justice”.
Nationwide, every thug, ANTIFA, and BLM member who have been upset since Biden was elected and they got what they thought they wanted will be out in full force to loot, burn, loot, riot, loot, attack the police, loot, and lastly, loot some more. Because that is all they are after. An excuse to steal what they will not work for.
Damn shame that billions of dollars in damages and the careers of 4 fine LEOs have been caused by the actions of a career criminal junkie, that was breaking the law again…while on drugs.
George Floyd…drug free and retired from a life of crime for 10 months now.
Kob
you really need to remember the spew alert.
“George Floyd…drug free and retired from a life of crime for 10 months now”.
My keyboard and screen are soaked and my nose hurts.
You can get protective covers for the keyboard and screen. As for the nose…well, all I can figure is stay away from hot, acidic, or alcoholic beverages. Not that I will follow my own advice.
Speaking of which….the sun is well over the yardarm( by my clock).
My Infantry association is having the annual reunion this year in Minneapolis. I would rather shove pencils into my ear drum and go to North Korea than to go to Minneapolis. Fuck that shit hole.
Word.
Cacti!
For anyone that happened to read my post before it was removed, I apologize that although this situation disgusts me, what I posted was inappropriate and was removed by Admin folks and noted to me on e-mail.
I don’t want to represent TAH that way so, I’m letting folks that saw it I’m owning it, I was wrong to be vulgar that way and it reflected poorly.
Mea Culpa.
Chip
O.K.
It’s in our wake, Chip. Lesson learned and move on.
Fuck. I missed that!
What did Chip say?
Yeah, me too.
Probably something about a movie. Or wings. Or sports.
1. This case is a study in what happens when prosecutors chase a headline and over charge. Chauvin was in the wrong after they got cuffs on the dirt bag. Once you gain control of a suspect you are responsible for another human beings life. Don’t like that? Find a new line of work.
2. Positional asphyxia is different from “choking” someone to death. Different mechanics. Yes, you can still talk while suffering from positional asphyxia. Anyone who says otherwise has as much training, experience and knowledge as the other ass hats over enthusiasticly sharing their opinions on this subject. Go get some training and experience.
3. The world is a better place without George Floyd in it.
4. Chauvin should be held accountable for what he did. Too bad he was overcharged. Now it’s a lose lose situation.
30 + years in law enforcement. I for one, would like to put my knee on the the neck of that retarded so called “cop” that thought it was a good idea to keep a combative, non compliant individual, screaming “I can’t breathe” in a prone position for ten minutes while being filmed by the ghetto mafia looking for a ghetto lottery payout. Had he had cuffed Saint Floyd, sat him upright, and called for EMS, removing Floyd on on a stretcher. George Floyd would just be another nameless repeat felon. I met one guy from Minnesota when I was in the Marines. He was a douche bag.
Exactly. Anyone whose been on the job, so to speak, for longer than 5 minutes is disgusted by his unprofessional and pathetic behavior. If we start acting like the animals we are no different. We are better than that.
I bet every baby momma in MN will be lining up for a share of that $25M, claiming to have been impregnated by Floyd. I hope they saved some of his DNA to sort things out.
I have mixed feelings on this tragedy…
but not the media’s ability to superspin this event into a national narrative.
After spending the 2nd half of 2020 binge watching reruns of COPS
on the internet TV junk channel Pluto,
I’ve seen way too many serial criminal perps,
after failing to comply, fighting, running,
and then getting tackled, cuffed, and held down, call out the
“I can’t breathe”,
which is most often followed by additional yelling and resistance.
Most importantly…. These are 5-15 years BEFORE Floyd.
The police have been hearing this line for decades,
by liars and fakers,
criminals who will say and do ANYTHING.
And therefore, it makes perfect sense that most police don’t take it seriously when they hear it.
COPS TV most used perp lines….
– Not my drugs.
– Not my gun.
– Not my car.
– I promise you (on Jesus, mother, or children).
– I’m afraid of cops. Cops kill blacks.
– I don’t know (his/her) last name.
– I can’t breathe.
I’ve seen a number of these reality cop shows as well where the black perp screams he can’t breathe as soon as the arresting officers try to cuff him. This tactic was started by that Eric Garner incident in New York. Frequently ne’er do well Blacks about to be arrested use it as a ploy to avoid going to the hoosegow. If one can repeatedly scream “I can’t breathe,” one can breathe.
I suspect Saint Floyd swallowed his last pill containing fentanyl when first approached sitting in his car, so that the cops wouldn’t find it on him. Thus, the triple the lethal amount in his blood. Also, when the officers made him get out of his own car he started stating he couldn’t breathe, but the media refuse to show that clip from the officer’s camera. I think Fox only showed it once.
IDK, I’ve arrested hundreds of people since Garner and only one pulled the can’t breathe gig. He was fine but went on a tax funded trip to the hospital anyway. Still went to jail after he refused treatment.
I am more of a size and build that only the extraordinary high or crazy want to fight me.
On a somewhat related note, the Orange, CA shooter has been ID’d by authorities. Much to the displeasure of Progs nationwide, he is not white, or a white supremacist. He has a Hispanic name and appears from South of the border; so they will likely call him one of those “White Hispanics.” He had some undisclosed connection to most of the people he shot in the building.
Too bad the responding cops didn’t give him the dirt nap he so richly deserves. That is only way our society seems capable of ending the existence of these murderous bastards, since the death penalty is mostly a dead letter nowadays.
Yeah, I was just on a zoom conference call with the rest of the progs and we are all very disappointed in him.
You’re really supposed to let the sodium pentothol wear off before you comment here, Commissar.
The Party Vozhd wants to see you in his office. I believe it has to do with revealing Party secrets to the masses.
Jeez, could there be an actual sense of humor sprouting beneath all that manure? I actually laughed.
Chauvin will be convicted because he murdered someone on camera.
His jury will have plenty of conservatives who watch and read the same right wing justification nonsense as you all.
But they will convict because there is no denying Chauvin acted with zero regard for Floyd’s life, ignored repeated warnings from bystanders that he was putting Floyd’s life at risk, ignored pleading from Floyd..,
Ignored his training.
Ignored departmental policy.
Ignored basic common sense.
Ignored basic human decency.
And continued to apply pressure on Floyd’s neck when he was handcuffed, face down, no longer moving, and no longer making sounds.
For several minutes after Floyd was no longer conscious.
Long after force or physical restraint was needed.
It is twisted that you all feel the need to defend or justify Chauvin’s actions.
When EMS arrived Floyd was dead. No pulse. No indication of life.
And Chauvin still had his knee on his neck.
He was not officially declared deceased until they reached the hospital but he was dead on scene.
Let’s not forget that he had a lethal amount of Fentanyl in his system, zampolit.
Death by Fentanyl. George Floyd was garbage. Good riddance.
Chauvin didn’t murder anyone. What he did was wrong and he should be punished for it, but he did not kill anyone. Nobody in this group has justified Chauvin’s actions in any way, shape, or form. In your spectacular career in law enforcement, would YOU have taken the advice or recommendation of a bystander? We’ll just toss your excessively verbose, myopic liberal talking point screed on the pile with the rest of your failed predictions. I applaud your consistency, however.
I almost forgot:
You’re a fraud.
He’ll get a fair trial followed by a first-class hanging, evidence be damned.
Manslaughter? Maybe. Murder? Oh fuck no.
*sigh*
Oh, well. The manure is still there, even deeper, but not a trace of humor or good will at all.
But Pollyanna and I shall endeavor to persevere in hoping anyway.
Also, all you “small government” and “pro constitutional rights” conservatives on here should probably be against armed agents of the state extrajudicially killing unarmed and handcuffed citizens on our streets.
What about Floyd’s criminal record?
You continually refer to “extrajudicial killings” without knowing what the term actually means.
Instead you stick with you SJW talking points.
“Extrajudicial killings” is killing of a person by governmental authorities (i.e. LE) without the sanction of ANY judicial proceeding or legal process.
There are so many processes and protocols associated with a police officer killing another person – shooting or otherwise – that you fail to mention because you choose to ignore them.
Pathetic.
We are. But that’s not relevant here.
We do. You should come by here to read sometime instead of just that drive-by logorhea of BS.
PS
This is one of my favorites—
CAUTION! Possibly Offensive Material!
VICTIM IS WHITE!!!
This guy is probably the real murderer of Floyd by supplying him with the Drugs that led to his Death…
Bingo.
I would hate to be on that jury knowing damn well if the evidence doesn’t support a conviction and you vote not guilty that your name will be leaked and your life as you know it will be over.
Which is why they’ll convict him of something even if none of the evidence supports it.
In case people don’t realize it, Morries Lester Hall is the person who was in the car with Floyd when Floyd went into the shop and tried to purchase an item with a phoney $20 bill.
Hall was in the car when an employee of the shop came out and asked Floyd to make good on the cost of the goods that he had stolen.
Hall told investigators that he was the one who sold Floyd the drugs.
That last reason is why Hall invoked the Fifth because he is complicit in the death of Floyd.
The prosecution could have offered him a deal not to prosecute him, but the defense would have been able to cross examine him. The fact that the DA did not offer such a deal indicates that his testimony would most likely devastated the prosecution’s case, or damaged it greatly
Hennepin County Coroner found that there were no crushing injuries to Floyd’s neck or spine. He did have high amounts of fentanyl in his system; enough to kill him.
Pathologist hired by the family; found exactly the same thing.
Floyd was NOT killed by having a knee on his neck. In fact, the weight and pressure on his neck was probably negligible.
His repeated statement of “I can’t breathe” was probably genuine due to the fact that he was beginning to go into cardiac arrest.
I don’t quite know how the State Prosecutor is supposed to handle that one.
I know that a “not guilty” verdict will result in me, sitting on my back deck, looking northward at the smoke rising from Minneapolis.
Chauvin’s LT threw him under the bus.
From LT on up.
He has obviously sold out to the gutless politicos.