PV2 Christopher Munoz: War? I could go to war?
KXXV-TV reports that a young soldier who just enlisted this year is filing for Conscientious Objector status days before his unit is scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan;
Munoz applied for a C.O. discharge on June 25, 2013, but the process can take anywhere from 6 to 8 months to complete.
Munoz is scheduled to deploy within the next week even though he has made it clear to his commanders that he is not willing to go to war.
Munoz’s wife, Breanna, says that he joined the Army to provide for his family including his 3-year-old daughter, Julissa, and that after his basic training ended in April, his beliefs and attitude toward the idea of being in combat completely changed.
“After he got out of basic, once I was able to start talking to him again, he just seemed really different and had a different attitude about the army and everything versus when he went in, and, once he got here, we found out that he was going to be deployed and everything just kind of got more real, and he just felt like he couldn’t do it,” Breanna said.
First of all, reporter people, there is no Private Second Class rank in the Army. You’d think a journalist in an Army town would know that. Yeah, and who would have thought that joining the Army in 2013 would result in a deployment to war?
Munoz is being supported by multiple war-resistant groups, and an online petition has been set up to show him support with that petition currently having 164 signatures.
Oh, yeah, Under the Hood found a cause…finally.
It is important for his command to understand that people support his freedom of conscience.
Call me cynical, but if a couple of months in BCT and AIT didn’t turn him against the war, but a few months with his wife did, it’s probably not his conscience that’s bothering him. Yeah, I’m pretty sure the Army doesn’t want the marshmallow any more, either. But let’s call it like it is.
The good news is that he may end up in jail – guess who is representing him;
“If deployed, PV2 Munoz will be at significant risk for harassment by his fellow soldiers since he will effectively be a ‘dead weight’ on the unit. Despite these very real risks, PV2 Munoz’s command has said that a delay of his deployment will not be considered,” said James M. Branum, an attorney who represents PV2 Munoz.
Yeah, Branum manages to get every single one of his clients locked up, so there is hope for justice.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Iraq Veterans Against the War
It really is too bad that he couldn’t have done this six months ago. Then he could have talked to the CO and would have been out by 1600 that same day. All he need to say was that he was GAY. Bingo. Gone.
Yep Sustainer, he is going to claim welfare once he is let out anyways. As #49 wrote, at no time has he in his past been an objector. He only doing that now after someone whispered in his ear about what happens during deployments, my guess is he changed his mind when he got to Hood.
These type of people are just not cut out for anything but quitting when its convenient.
Sounds like a basic coward to me. There’s lots of jobs he could do in combat zone, like burn the shit barrel, sweep the mess hall, wash pots and pans (KP), motor pool guard, radio watch. That way the guys with some balls go be freed up to go do shit.
Back in 2002 when I was in the IET environment, DA PAM 600-4, the IET smart Book did list PV2 as Private Second Class.
Since then, that has changed.
But it does no good for this imbecile. What he needs to do is grow some brains and some balls, and get rid of Mr. Branum to start with and then man up and just get the job done.
The same thing happened right after 9/11 when units started deploying to Afghanistan. All of a sudden loads of people were “COs” and said so not to deploy. Why? “I didn’t join for this shit, I joined for the college program, I was doing laundry during the gulf war, etc etc.” Far too many join thinking they never have to worry about doing anything “dangerous” in the military. Once it happens, they think of any and all ways to not do it.
In his situation, he joined the Army Welfare Program, not the Army that defends the Constitution and fights n’ wins its nation’s wars.
Ah, like. I didn’t know the the Army, like, did stuff, like, kill people and,like, break things, like, like, like, like…
#24 O4E
I would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall to hear that Chaplain’s “counciling”.
This reminds me of an episode in the 1983 television series, “FOR LOVE AND HONOR”, about an airborne unit in the United States Army during peacetime.
The unit had a female rigger, and one day, there was an international crisis that the paratroopers had to respond to.
When they boarded the aircraft, the sergeant told the female that she wasn’t allowed to go (because females were barred from combat).
During the flight, ammunition was distributed to the paratroopers, amid stunned reactions.
One of the paratroopers, clearly frightened, was nearly in tears, as he said,
“I only enlisted so I could go to college!”
Do any of you guys remember that show?
The dude is Commo for Christ’s sake. All I’ve seen commo guys do during my tours was sit in their CHUs all day until someone needed a radio fixed before a mission. What a joke. Hope I see this guy around Hood. Believe me, there are a bunch of people here wanting to meet him.
Unbelievable. His wife is gonna be some kinda pissed when she finds out that they’ll be kicked out of base housing and the Army ain’t gonna pay for their move either.
/17 Air Cav Says:
July 4th, 2013 at 8:13 pm
Some guys oppose war but find a way to do their duty. They are few. They are far bewteen. They have my utmost respect. Desmond Doss comes to mind. But the others? Yellow stripers and those who believe that their personal agreement with the conflict is first required.
Desmond Doss will always be in a class of his own, just as Alvin York was.
1. His sorry ass knew about the war before he enlisted.
2. His sorry was taught and trained for the war while in training
3. His sorry ass signed up to take care of this family, but now he wants to throw that away.
4. He was all for it until he talked to his wife, and her sorry talked him out of it.
So here is what to do, kick his out under Chapter 14, 2c, with and OTH (other and honorable), and send his sorry ass on his way with nothing.
The services do not need sorry assholes like him, all they do is endanger their peers. Let him go, but make sure he gets nothing.
Why didn’t he just go on public assistance from the start and leave my beloved Army out as the middle man?
Why did he think he spent so much time qualifying with an M-16? Is that skill needed to operate an EBT card?
Pussy. He signed up during war time; what could possibly go wrong?
Coward.
This fucktard should have listened a bit more closely, or at least read the back of his DD Form 4 before signing the fuggin’ thing.
20 years from now he’ll be a member of the VFW and American Legion and telling “war stories”…he’ll be drawing money from the VA for PTSD as well. Mark my words. This guy is a user-poser.
We in the Army world called that “cowardice”. Call the supply sergeant and see if he can order you a spine
If only we could resurrect Sgt York to slap the shit out of this little wiener. CO status is something he should have considered before joining, not a week before deploying. Coward indeed.
Wonder what his heroic combat story will be like in a few years? I’m sure he’ll have been an Airborne Ranger Special Forces Secret Squirrel SEAL Force Recon sniper who had a stint as a Coastie Rescue swimmer/sniper for the Air Force.
@62, Ray: Add a Chapter 13 to it, “Failure to Adapt to a Military Lifestyle”, and he’ll have fun even trying to get any kind of Education or Job Assistance from the Fed and most State Governments!
PV2… Private Second Class. For man that’s writing an article on military desertion (which is a touchy subject) you sure don’t understand basic rank structure.
In WWI and I think WWII also, many CO’s enlisted but volunteered for battlefield duties such as stretcher bearers. They did some of the most dangerous work but wanted to serve and obey their conscience. They did a great job. So what is this guys problem? Why did he go 11 Bravo, knowing what they do when he could have picked another career path? Sounds like simple, college money cowardice to me.
You there, Ayinde, dipshit, PV2= PRIVATE. Hell I’m not even in the Army and I know that.
At least this time it wasn’t an officer who had his entire college paid for and then decided, oh I can’t go. That might be dangerous and all…
Cough (Ehren) Cough (Watada) Cough…
#72 – the Army reg on the subject is AR 600-43.
It’s interesting, actually. A CO can request one of two types of treatment: 1-0 (discharge)or 1-A-0 (assignment to noncombatant duties, which the reg says means “transfer to the medical career management field”).
The distinction is supposed to be between someone who can’t “support war in any form” (i.e., his conscience doesn’t let him help the war effort at all), who is supposed to go for discharge, and someone who can’t personally take part in the killing but can help those who do, who is supposed to go for reassignment. And the reg says they’re not supposed to take a person who asks for discharge and give him reassignment as a “consolation prize” – it’s all or nothing. Presumably it was Munoz’s own choice to request the “discharge” versus the “reassignment” kind.
I don’t know where the article gets “6 to 8 months” because the reg says any application is supposed to be forwarded to DA within 90 days (okay, that may answer the question right there) – and while I didn’t see much of this, when I did see it, units seemed to be pretty damn fast about it. As you’d expect – even if they like the guy (which in this case I highly doubt) they’re motivated to replace him pretty fast.
Mind you, you can search the reg all day and not find any role for online petitions in the process.
@75 Thanks for the info.
Another arsehole who volunteers for the Military in a time of WAR and then decides he objects to going to war…$#@%^&!!!!!
PLEASE don’t let him run to the north….
We had a guy that was a CO back in ’04. for some reason, as soon as that first bullet went by his head he changed his mind. two things that dont exist in a fire fight, Consciencous objectors and aetheists. send him to the stan and see how long his CO status holds up.
what is this guy’s actual MOS? does anyone know? i saw a post that said como, and if that’s the case, the only time he will see day light is when the timeing is messed up on a radio (and half the time at that, the TC fixes that himself). other than that, he will sit safe and happy playing his PS3 all day until something breaks. if he is really a grunt, be happy, this is the only time you will ever get to actually do the job you trained for!
June of 65,MCRDSD,one recuit in our platoon was a contract CO. He was a Mormon doing his duty to his country. The Hats knew he was a CO and gave him no grief nor tried to change his mind. He was contacted to a supply MOS. By June of 66, guess where all of the recuits were strationed? Joe
The problem with little fuck-tards like this is like a lot of youth these days. They grow up learning how “special” they are and contribute nothing to society except playing XBox, watch T.V., and get coddled by mommy and daddy. Then, when it comes time to “man up”, they have no idea how to because nobody kicked their ass a little while growing up.
What pisses me off is this fuck is going to end up on public assistance, and we’re all going to have to support his useless fuggin’ ass.
Lol this kid is just scared… Who isn’t when I got out of my bct which was osut btw I was deoyed within the first two months of being at my duty station… Suck it up private drive on and do te duty you signed up for. It’s people like this who give Americans bad names. He wanted to provide for his family? Awesome you get paid more deployed and your benefits don’t just go away. Worse cAse
Scenario he gets KIA if he was smart he did the 400000 grand sgli and left t all to his wife and the kids as well as herself will be set… I don’t see anything but a scared little boy whos lost likely going to be a fobbit anyway…
Perhaps his CO request would have more credibility if he converted to Islam, the religion of peace. /sarc
@ #79 JOE WILLIAMS:
“Mormon”?
I’m a member of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints (i.e., the so-called “Mormon” church), and we are NOT conscientious objectors!
In the Book of Mormon, we are commanded to take up arms and fight to defend our families, our freedom, and our religion.
Several Mormons have been awarded the Medal of Honor, the most recent being Staff Sergeant Clinton Lovar “Ro” Romesha, United States Army, for his actions in Afghanistan.
http://writesong.blogspot.com/2013/02/staff-sergeant-clinton-lovar-romesha.html
A lot of folks get mistake the Mormons for some other Christian faith, such as Seventh Day Adventists or Mennonites.
#59 1-5 Cav.
I was Commo, during the 80s-90s (the Communist scare era). And yes, there were time we just sat and repaired the stuff that the infantry managed to eternally eff up. We even had a saying, “If you want to make sure something is break-proof, give it to the infantry for a test”.
And there were other times we pulled perimeter duty and all the other less-then-pleasant common core crap that everyone else regardless of MOS had to do.
Just because we had higher ASVAB scores then you’all, don’t be jealous.
Interesting discussions here. I find the young man’s timing of “conversion” suspect here. But I find the whole philosophical struggle on how a democratic nation should treat it’s conscientious objectors endlessly fascinating. I find the tales of British Quaker COs during WWII that joined EOD teams clearing up the London blitz inspiring.
Then of course there is Alvin York’s struggles with his religious pacifism and his sense of patriotic duty. (Compare that with 2 time MOH winner MG Smedley Butler “war is a racket” tirade. But he was retired so perhaps he was entitled.)
The article doesn’t make clear his particular conscientious objection. Is it he can’t kill or he can’t support the military in general or he has an objection to the war the Afghanistan in particular? I have some respect to sincere COs in the first two categories(Though I think they are wrong) I have a particular disdain volunteer military members who try to weasel out of their obligations under the last rationale. It offends my notion of DUTY as well as good order and discipline. I could digress into a longer musing on the balance of civil disobedience and duty but I save it for a later post.
BOYS like PV2 Munoz, you could task them out guarding three bowling balls overnight, and when you came back in the morning, you’d find one ball broken, the second missing, and the third one pregnant!
#86, I don’t know what the truth is in this case (objection to war or THS, “tiny heart syndrome”), but under the regulation you CANNOT get CO status (whether for discharge or reassignment) simply because you are opposed to one particular war. It has to be “all war” or it is not conscientious objection.
You are a fucking pussy
@88 That is my understanding too. But that hasn’t stopped some from trying to claim it. The fact that multiple anti-war groups are involved make me wonder. Though the specific groups aren’t listed. I just know some groups are more partisan than principle base. My “favorite” protest sign in D.C. in the Bush years was “when Clinton lied no one died” I always wanted to ask those protestors if they remembered Operation Desert Fox?(Clinton, Iraqi WMD, 4-day bombing campaign etc)
#85
I got back from deployment in 2011 our commo guy might have a higher gt score than most of us tankers …. But I promise you half of our commo guys are lacking in a seriously useful skill…. Common friggen sense… And they did stay on the COS 24/7 and didn’t pull any guard duty besides radio guard at the TOC which they complained about bc they weren’t geting adequate sleep
I was commo in Viet Nam, MOS 31 L 20, Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repair.
We pulled perimeter guard every other night, and also participated in patrols outside the perimeter.
When I got assigned to the 101st Airborne, everybody, regardless of MOS, was required to complete S.E.R.T.S. (the equivalent of today’s Air assault Qualification Course), and graduation was an actual helicopter assault on an NVA position.
And, of course, when on base camp, admittedly enjoying hot chow and movies, there was always the enemy’s rocket and mortar attacks, plus sapper attacks.
PLUS, there was the constant threat from among your fellow troopers, because of racial hostility, illegal drug use, and it being a controversial and unpopular war.
It was almost as if conscientious G.I.s had to do double duty, with never any rest, because so many guys were doped up and goofing off when they were supposed to be guarding our perimeter.
You never knew who would kill you, the NVA, or your own men.
Anyway, that was a long time ago, and I’m home alive with no parts missing.
I don’t know what the Army is like today.
@85
I like to tease commo guys too. But I think it depends entirely on units, their mission, and section leadership on how hard you can bust them out. In my last deployment (OEF 10-11) our commo section did pull tower duty as well as doing a fantastic job on keeping radios and networks up even for units outside the BN TF. And in OIF we had commo dudes on every convoy escort we sent out the gate. Some of the commo types running Warlock LX’s even sat on RCIED cordons for half a day plus on RTE Mobile.
In all fairness (yeah, right!), this guy probably joined thinking that Obama would end all wars.
There won’t be real justice until Branum gets locked up, too. With the GTMO lawyers, of course.
Allow me to opine on communicators, particularly the maintenance guys. This observation is based on 22 years as a radio repairman, radio technician and communications technician, with over 1/3 of that in combat arms units (tanks/amtracks, engineers). Every radio maintenance guy thinks that he is the greatest thing to come along since Marconi, and it was a wonder how that Marine Corps made it this far before they enlisted. And the Electronic Maintenance Company (ELMACO) guys were the worst. Constantly telling you how high they scored on the ASVAB, and everyone in combat arms is a complete idiot. They were too damn stupid to comprehend that just because combat arms had a lower minimum ASVAB score to qualify, doesn’t mean that they aren’t capable of scoring higher on the test. And when these comm guys end up screwing up (piss test, DUI, bad checks, etc), suddenly they go from Brain Man to Rain Man.
You mean his dumb ass actually believed it was coincidental that pop-up targets on the range are shaped like people?
Can we please stay on topic and not have a dick measuring contest between 11-series and 25-series?
Considering that, as Brigade S6’s, we are CONSTANTLY short 25U’s, we’d love for some of you who badmouth the MOS to come over because we know you’re qualified.
Don’t expect to make E6 unless your points are at 795 though.
@51: Not true. DADT was repealed in September 2011. Where have you been?
I don’t know how I ever got in the Signal Corps!
I didn’t know the first thing about radios or electronics.
My formal education consisted of passing a G.E.D. test.
During my Basic Combat Training, I was told I was going to be a heavy equipment operator.
Because of that, I was eagerly looking forward to being able to drive a bulldozer, knowing that skill would get me a really good paying job in civilian life.
But, you know how the Army is!
I went to Signal School to learn to OPERATE radio relay equipment, and prior to graduation, they pulled me from that course to transfer me into the REPAIR course, which I flunked.
Since, on my final exam, I’d only failed by two questions, and they were practical, not written (I’d passed the written portion), they kept me in school for two more weeks and tested me again, only asking two questions.
“What is that thing there?”
“Duh, I think it’s a radio?”
“What is wrong with it?”
“Duh, it don’t work.”
“Good! You’ve passed the course!”
Off I went to Kaiserslautern, Germany.
And THAT is how the Army does things when there’s a war, and they’re desperate for warm bodies to fill the ranks.
I could tell you a whole bunch of other equally amusing stories, based on personal experience.
YOU SIGNED UP. Maybe you should of thought about it before you signed your life away. My husband is in Afghanistan. Proudly serving his country. Be a real man. And finish the job you signed up for.