Bravery is not this
The Washington Times reports that the media has gone apeshit over a gay kiss between two Marines as one returns from his overseas deployment.
“This is TRUE bravery!” reads one [comment on Facebook]. “The most insidious enemy we face in the struggle for equality is internalized homophobia. Kudos to any and every one who comes out for any and all to see!!”
Yeah all of you whiners who’ve been blown-up and shot and carried your friends on your back to get them out of the line of fire, or dragged them from burning vehicles with ammunition zinging around your head, this is what true bravery looks like (content warning – if you don’t want to see two men kissing, don’t click the “More” link. If you don’t want to see an iconic photo ruined by political correctness, don’t click the “More” link);
Yeah, I put it below the fold because I don’t want it on my front page until I write something else – that’s my choice, and in the current climate, who is going to call me brave?
I have nothing against folks being as gay as they want to be in the privacy of their homes, but I’m not having it shoved down my throat with the media telling me what I should think about it. And equating it to the countless truly brave acts that I’ve witnessed and had recounted to me is enough to make me sick.
I’d tell you imbeciles to stick it in your ass, but, well, you know….
Category: Military issues
@46 – “So…who was right?”
Doesn’t look like it’s you….unless you have some sort of statistics showing that post-DADT, straight Servicemembers have been prosecuted at a higher rate than gay Servicemembers for like offenses; or examples of ‘rampant gayness’. If you think the photo above is proof, then you haven’t been to many unit homecomings.
You seem obsessed with nullifying your own arguments for some reason. Don’t like DADT repeal? There’s the door…..
“CI isn’t the judge of what is and isn’t logical rationale.”
Of course I’m not (and coincidentally never claimed to be), that is surely you’re domain, as you deem to tell others what they understand or do not.
Gentlemen, I still do not understand a world where sodomites, homosexual vermin is a completely aceptable social behavior when it has been despised and chastised through ages as inappropriate behavior. The argument that it is genetic is flawed, there is no conclusive evidence. It is another ploy to justify a behavior that is outside of the aceptable moral standard. No, I do not share everyone acceptance of homosexual conduct, I find it repulsive. I really do not care if you think I am ignorant. Your mind can process it, find admiration for the conduct, then you may need to check yourself and address your latent homosexual tendencies. I say it as I see it, I do not like it, I do not accept it, I hate the position that I have been placed in by the government and the liberal crowds. I have invested a lifetime and I am too short to let this wear me down, I will leave at the first posible opportunity because this goes against my personal value system. I still have a back bone and I do not bend to fit the times and the new trends. What I think is wrong, is wrong and will stay that way. It is pure ignorance to compare this to racial bigotry. They chose to be homosexual, they pleasure themselves through sodomy and call it love? WTF? sexual gratification is now love? so these bastards here (in Afghanistan) pleasure themselves with goats, guess they feel love for their goats, I have not seen one marring one (yet, I may be surprised) Same thing with any other deviant sexual perversity, if we accept any then we are forced to accept it all. When do we say this is enough? If you do not have a problem with deviant sexual behavior then cast a vote to allow underage teenagers marry older men like in the past, it was done by centuries and it is still practiced in the world, when a 12 year old married a 30 something guy. Then you liberal scums will say it is ok, it is… Read more »
@#41 – Actually, Italian, Glenn McDuffie was a guest of ours at a veterans’ recognition event over the weekend last May and he’s quite the classy gentleman. 🙂
Can I just go with, “Ew. Ick.”?
Its social engineering. We’re now conditioned to except this shit and the Left has done a great job. Its perhaps one of the best psyop jobs ever. We always qualify any anti gay post or comment with things like “I don’t care what you do behind closed doors”…or “gays don’t bother but,”. I’m sure both statements are true..but goddamit we type it. Its been soaked into popular culture to such an extent that anybody under a certain age doesn’t bat an eye.
I’m happy for our friend pictured above that he feels his chain of command supports his life style….actually they all suppport their individual careers and paychecks there devildog so don’t get all froggy.
I think its disgusting. That fact won’t make me violate regs but I don’t have to like it or support it.
I call it shit, it looks like it, if I touch it its consistency makes it look like shit. It smells like shit, I wont taste it despite the media and the fucking liberals saying that it is not shit and that is good for you to eat.
Some people will do, and think the right way despite the bullshit conditioning. A Fag is a Fag, is not a pretty thing nor do I want to do anything with it. Period.
@ 17 (Sorry, I’m late to the game) Now that S*** is FUNNY. Although, had they attempted to teach me that maneuver during my MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) training, I would have used an eye gouge followed by a knee thrust to the groin then a modified figure four to unconsciousness on my instructor.
Also, I would have called it quits with a tan belt; with moves like you described I don’t want to imagine what it would take to get to brown belt.
#53 is me, and I’d hate to be confused with other, ignorant anonymi.
Let me know when you bigoted assholes play scientist for a living. If you’d take 5 minutes off from being ridiculously ignorant dicks, you’d find that some people ARE genetically programmed to be homosexual, and I really don’t give 2 fucks whether you like it or not.
That said, it HAS become so acceptable in today’s society to be homosexual that those who were not born such choose to be so. It is not, however, a choice that every gay person makes.
I don’t care what you apologists have to say about it, it’s still a disgusting public display of affection that has been overplayed.
Where are the pictures of the female Marines jumping into their husbands’ arms and planting a liplock on them? NOWHERE! Because it’s not politically correct and doesn’t fit the media template to glorify immorality.
If we’re really going to get nitpicky at this then I think the WWII photo would be considered unprofessional. If you look up the background story you’ll see the sailor just grabbed some random woman, kissed her without asking, and then she slapped him. These guys hadn’t seen each other in months, and I’ve seen way more ‘dramatic’ returning from deployment makeout sessions between straights. I’m one of those Dirty Queers everyone loves to hate, but unfortunately for the fundies I served honorably got my blood stripe. Most of the unit knew, and they honestly didn’t care. I wasn’t winning boards left and right, but I did my job and my fellow Marines respected that.
While I never tried to have any relationships when I was active duty I know that if I did I would probably react similarly if I saw them for the first time in months. I personally think the new picture is cliche, but does it honestly matter? Nobody was made to sit and watch, and no poor straight people were forced into unwilling gay PDA. So stop being hypocrites by championing the original, and decrying the new one.
And to be clear I don’t think kissing someone constitutes bravery unless you’re playing wingman for a buddy. That Facebook commenter is an idiot, and should apologize. I’m sure the Marines photographed would agree.
If a woman in uniform jumps up and wraps her legs around a guy for the cameras, is that “TRUE bravery”?
Although I’ve not yet become homo-phobic, neither have I become homo-friendly. I prefer people-friendly. I keep my sexual escapades private, as gentlemen and ladies are expected to. But I can’t help seeing these types of staged press-release events as symptomatic of failure. For the participants, failure at being whichever gender they were born as. Alternatively, failure – before this date – at being courageous enough to succeed at whichever gender they want to be. For the organizations and their spokespeople, failure at damn near everything.
Maybe some people have a genetic defect that leads them to be homosexual, I don’t know. The fact remains, that is easily determined by simple evolutionary logic, that it is a defect, not a feature. It is not a survival trait. Up until the ’70s, it was listed as a mental illness, which makes sense, especially as it has been successfully treated. There are also quite a few examples of it being the result of sexual trauma.
How “kind” or “compassionate” is it to tell someone who is mentally ill NOT to seek treatment? If it was done in any other case, it would be a case of severe negligence. But here, because it creates such a reaction of revulsion among those with any sort of functioning moral compass, it has been latched on to as a cause to help further the crumbling of Western mores.
@ #52
“when it has been despised and chastised through ages as inappropriate behavior.”
This is part of the problem. Some folks, and I’m trying to be sensitive here, really don’t have a grasp of history. Homosexuality has been accepted down though the ages far more often than not.
Let me clarify something for you, what you should be hating is the backwards and sheltered upbringing that left you, in your later years, in a position of having to try and assimilate ideas which have been around, and public, for centuries.
You’re so programmed you even attempt to tell me how I feel about it, without even knowing, a predictable attempt to de-humanize your perceived enemy. It’s “ignorance to compare this to racial bigotry”, really? They chose to be homosexual? really?
Prove it you clown.
And I’m not a Liberal, fact is I’m probably even further to the right of the political spectrum than you are. So choke on that.
@ ROS
That’s cool as hell. They were a generation of heroes, I’ll bet it was cool as hell to talk with him.
My criticisms were offered with a degree of sarcasm. His lack of class being predicated on the logical assumption of others opinions of ‘un-classy’ behavior.
@#58: You said:
” . . . play scientist for a living. If you’d take 5 minutes off from being ridiculously ignorant dicks, you’d find that some people ARE genetically programmed to be homosexual . .”
I won’t ask “Where;’s the beef?”, but I am asking you to provide that scientific proof.
@ #64
“is easily determined by simple evolutionary logic, that it is a defect, not a feature. It is not a survival trait.”
That’s you argument? Really? Hmmm, sexual liaisons across genders has been recorded among many species throughout recorded history. Is it your position that evolution should have eradicated it by now if it was a genetic issue? Lots and lots of holes in that argument friend.
I should also point out that if you’re going to use a theory based in evolution (however incorrect) to try and dispute the morality of homosexuality, you might have a moral dilemma on your hands when trying to make a case for homosexuality being immoral on religious grounds. You either believe “Christ’s Word”, or you don’t, you don’t get to spin from a loom your ‘source’ says doesn’t contain any thread.
And this really got me “How “kind” or “compassionate” is it to tell someone who is mentally ill NOT to seek treatment?”
You shift gears in your argument making the presumption that a. Homosexuals are mentally ill, and b. I or anyone here agrees with that position.
I don’t. Prove it. And until you can, it’s nothing more than ‘feelings’ on your part.
Cheers
@64 Actually there is evidence that once a woman has a son any subsequent sons have an increasingly higher chance of being homosexual for purposes of kin selection. Genetically speaking having several brothers in the gene pool only increases competition, and across the board lowers the chances of any of them achieving reproductive success. Kin selection and reciprocal altruism are survival traits, albeit in a less direct way.
There are several well documented studies featuring brain scans of males and females of both orientations. Homosexual men tended to have several brain structure appear more like heterosexual women. Gay women have several brain structures that line up more with heterosexual men. This is all evidence for hormones mucking around with brain structure in utero.
There are plenty of LGBT individuals who were never abused as children, and while it may play a factor it is by no means the determinate. I was never abused as a children, and I’m not mentally ill. Of course ‘hysteria’ was widely touted as a mental illness for hundreds of years (mostly as a result of women not acting meek enough.) Drapetomania was touted as the reason slaves tried to escape captivity since Biblically they shouldn’t ever have the inclination to.
@67
For the most part, the research is in it’s infancy at the moment.
In it’s absence I’ll say this. You can’t prove a negative.
There is not empirical evidence for either side of the argument. But the side that claims thee’s nothing wrong with homosexuality is quite a bit closer to proving it than the side saying it’s wrong.
I could as easily ask you to give proof that it’s fundamentally immoral, or wrong. Here’s a clue, you can’t.
Cheers
At #67
Go look for it yourself if it’s that important to you. No one here is required to do your leg work.
You provide the “proof” homosexuality is immoral, I’ll provide the “proof” it’s not.
Cheers
I’ll be nice, and link the first few studies that come to mind:
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617151845.htm
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10531.full
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/?page=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness_and_sexual_orientation
so Jacobite is saying they’re born that way. Does that make it an abnormality like a cleft palate, spina bifida, Down’s syndrome or other things. Shouldn’t they have a telethon to search for a cure then?
And I love the fact that he uses the good old “homophobia” is the same as racism arguement too.
Blue eyes and blond hair are recessive traits, and would be considered abnormalities. Do people with those traits warrant fixing? What about left handed people? What about webbed toes? Attached earlobes? ‘Dumbo’ ears? Curly hair? Handedness isn’t fully a matter of heredity, so do we need to follow the old psychiatric model of burning them at the stake?
There are a lot of genetic variants that are not abnormal. Red, black, blond hair; green, gray, blue eyes. Different — not abnormal.
And just for the record: I’ve never liked the WWII photo of the sailor kissing the nurse. He didn’t know her, and he grabbed her without her permission; and if it’d been me, another war would have started just as soon as I got loose.
@PintoNag They tracked the nurse down a few years ago, and apparently right after the picture was taken she slapped the guy.
I can only hope LGBT veterans repudiate those idiots who equate making out with heroism. It’s bad enough having to overcome associations with nutjobs with persecution complexes like Bradley Manning. I would definitely be interested to know who anticipated and promoted that photo op. The guys in the picture seemed a bit too preoccupied to have staged it.
#75 Some of you may think I’m a dummy (although I’m young and public education sucks) but I never knew that the sailor just grabbed a random nurse. Kinda makes me view it in a different light.
#65
You are either a HOMOSEXUSUAL or a have LATENT HOMOSEXUAL TENDENCIES. You may like to pack your rump with a stiffie, or would like someone to do it to you.
Regardless, it is sick, aberrant behavior that has been around for ages and NEVER has been PART OF THE MAINSTREAM SOCIETY UNTIL TODAY. And today it is accepted because we have people like you, who scream to the world how great perversion and deviant sexual behavior is.
I know I am right. Wish that MEN were still MEN and stoop up for what right looks like. Two men having sex is wrong, unatural and aberrant behavior. Sodomite.
@Adam_S I’m also a young product of public school, and I didn’t know the whole story either until I read the article with the woman in the photo. That’s just photography, and it doesn’t necessarily nullify the importance of the image.
The famous Iwo Jima flag raising picture wasn’t the ‘real’ one, Robert Capa’s iconic Spanish Civil War photo was probably staged, the famous Vietnam War photo of the ‘innocent’ Vietnamese guy about to be shot never mentioned how the guy had murdered countless SVN woman and children, several Civil War photographers would actually move around bodies to make shots look more gruesome, etc.
@Abnmdc Hope you don’t eat shrimp, or work on the Sabbath…
@66- It was amazing, D. Both he and his daughter are 2 of the nicest people I’ve ever met and have since done a lot for our organization to assist wounded TRUE heroes have a little down time. I enjoyed his company immensely.
@67- For starters: http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html (This also addresses the “homosexuality as a mental disorder” theory and its declassifocation as such over 3 and a half decades ago.)
Now just Google “Xq28”.
That said, this does not mean that everyone who claims to be homosexual is actually so. As I said before, it’s become so accepted that even those born without the trait have made the CHOICE to engage in a homosexual lifestyle.
But, as Carl said previously, I am of the opinion that what one does in one’s bedroom is one’s own business and ladies and gentlemen do not discuss those matters with others. Calling someone “brave” for telling the world whom they engage in personal relations with is ridiculous. It’s tacky, not brave.
Abnmdc, you have issues. Being gay obviously didn’t interfere with the military prowess of King Richard I, Alexander the Great or T.E. freaking Lawrence.
First, let me make this clear, I do not agree with homosexuality. Whether it’s through choice or genetics I don’t know and don’t care. As a Christian I can “hate the sin but love the sinner” and mean it. That being said,
Over the length of this thread I have seen many good points made, both pro and con BUT as soon as the profanity and sarcasm start, your respective points are lost. Mother always said if someone has to resort to cursing to prove a point, they have no point to prove. It reminds me of school kids saying, “I know you are but what am I?” How about some civility?
to me, it’s obviously unbecoming. and calling it HEROISM is sickening.
but also, truthfully, it speaks to the same issue, to me, as women in combat. goofy ass girly girls who jump into the waiting boyfriends arms don’t belong in combat– and nearly does this guy. tell me you think this guy will have your back when it gets down in it.. or are you going to be hauling his pack.
Hate me. whatever.
@BooRadley How exactly does some PDA justify saying this guy couldn’t hack it in combat?
well…. since you’ve already brought up ‘burning at the stake’ I’m not sure you’re really that interested in my answer. If it doesn’t agree with you– I’m wrong.
That said, It’s childish, unprofessional and shows a lack of self control and bearing. People who can’t keep their feet on the ground while kissing, knowing they are in full violation of policies they have agreed to, aren’t generally the kind of people who are going to control their emotions when it is life or death.
My intolerance for perversion and deviant behavior is not religious oriented. I am an equal opportunity hater. I hate liberals, religious fanatics, democrats, fags, dikes, intravenous drug users, thieves, politicians equally and the list goes on.
Because you have 3 or 4 homosexuals who amounted to something through the ages it makes it ok to be one? that is flawed logic.
resting on the Sabbath is still a good idea, back then it was made to ensure the farmers had a day of recovery from their duties in order to keep a healthy lifestyle. Same with the prohibitions on pork and other food, from observation they concluded that people got sick more often from eating certain animals. There you got it, it was not religious fanatism that motivated them to come up with sensible rules. Just as they concluded that being a fag was a bad thing, or have you not read it? It was abhorrent behavior then, it should be now too.
No, flawed logic is judging another adult and concluding that they are beaneath you (no pun intended) because of whom they choose to have sex with. Mayhap I sense a bit of denial and self-loathing……
@Abnmdc Yes, those prohibitions on multi-fiber clothing really helped maintain their personal morality. Or, y’know, the whole guide on how to sell your daughter into slavery bit (the cliff notes version is unlike males she can never go free.)
At 72
“homophobia” is the same as racism arguement too.”
It is ma’am, sorry you can’t make the connection. 🙂
“so Jacobite is saying they’re born that way. Does that make it an abnormality like a cleft palate, spina bifida, Down’s syndrome or other things. Shouldn’t they have a telethon to search for a cure then?”
No, I’m saying they MAY be. I can’t say for sure they are, and you can’t say for sure they aren’t. Real simple eh? And even if it pans out it’s a straight up genetic predisposition, why would you characterize it as a defect that needs ‘fixing’?
Since we can’t answer the first question definitively, we can’t answer the second.
Gawd I wish they taught logic in high school. Might prevent some of these ‘mis-understandings.’
Ah those were better days when women knew when it was right to close their yap. Ah, we have gone backwards instead of forward.
I said that I do not approve of the conduct, and that is sick deviant behavior. You want to put words in my mouth that I have not uttered. Denial, nothing to prove son, I have proven my worth as a man plenty of times, more than it is required. Perhaps you are still lingering in curiosity for some homoerotic pleasure and projecting yourself.
#4&5 My thoughts exactly.
I have said my piece on this to many times before, so I’ll leave it at the repeal not being wise. What worries me more though is who or what else are we next going to accomodate? I can think of a few entities right off my head that rae inevitable…
@78
“I know I am right.”
Hitler knew he was right to, so did Stalin, and the Catholic Church during the inquisition for that matter. Abnmdc, you’re not ‘right’ in the philosophical sense that the bold facts line up on your side of an attempted equation, you’re only ‘right’ in your own head as it relates to how you interpret your own environment. That aint the same thing by a long shot.
Thomas Paine is rolling in his grave. (Founder 1, 1737 – 6, 1809)
At 82
“T.E. freaking Lawrence”
Gawd, one of my all time heroes since I was a wee lad. 🙂
@Abnmdc Yes, those wonderful days of slavery, lobotomies for everyone, barring the landless from voting, and charging the public for tours of mental hospitals (who often got to poke the ill with sticks if they weren’t acting Crazy Enough.)
Hate to disappoint you, but I’m never going to ‘shut my yap.’ And never fear: your tax dollars are funding my biochemistry degree, and more than likely med school so I’ll be even less inclined to shut my yap.
@Cedo I’ve definitely seen worse post-deployment behavior, and commands tend to ignore overly enthusiastic initial reunion PDA. As long as they quickly rein in the tonsil hockey then I don’t see it as unprofessional. Again, my question is who promoted the photo? Either it was PA personnel snagging a PR opportunity, or social networking/emailed personal photo that got hijacked (and yet another excellent anecdote to a unit social networking rules class.) If those guys DID stage and promote this then I think that would definitely qualify as unprofessional just like that idiot Army National Guard soldier who was endorsing Ron Paul in uniform.
“Because you have 3 or 4 homosexuals who amounted to something through the ages it makes it ok to be one? that is flawed logic.”
The problem is, it ain’t 3 or 4, you’re just speaking to the 3 or 4 that have been mentioned here. Folks with a different view have been fully intertwined throughout human history, including large population groups. And besides, good works don’t make it ‘ok’ to be one. There isn’t any good reason why it’s NOT ok. It’s as simple as that.
@Jacobite Judging by your handle I think we’re going to quickly see comments about the good old days when The Dirty Papists knew when it was right to close their yap.
Come on naysayers, leaving religion and these photos out of it, why is it not OK to be a homosexual? Personal un-comfortableness is not a good ‘reason’ by the way. I’m looking for concrete reasons why we should be upset if a portion of the population is attracted to same gender partners.
Facts please, leave your hyperbole at the door.
The should have, lol.
I’m of close Scottish decent, and I’m a romantic. The Jacobite handle goes back more years than I care to remember in my military career. I’d make a good Jacobite only in that I love lost causes. I’m originally from Chicago and something of a Cubs fan. That should explain a bit too. lol