Idiots in the gun control debate
Yeah, I’ve read some real stupid shit in teh interwebz today in regards to gun control, but this one just deserved a public answer. It’s from some shithole called Balloon Juice written by a guy named John Cole who explains that he was supposedly in the 11th ACR stationed at Camp Doha between the wars with Iraq;
So why am I telling you this? Because in the middle of one of the most dangerous regions in the world, even with clear Rules of Engagement, every time I went on gate duty, there was a piece of tape over my ammo clip on my M-16 and M1911 .45. Why? Because the most heavily armed military in the world did not want accidental shootings. If a situation arose, I would have to eject my ammo clip, remove the tape, and reinsert and work the action before I could fire.
This was in a combat zone. Yet I have spent the last two fucking days dealing with armchair commandos telling me they need unlimited firepower to be safe in… Connecticut.
If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.
So, because he was such an incompetent boob that he needed to have his ammo taped in his magazine, gun nuts are pussies – yeah, I don’t see the connection either. Besides, he calls them “ammo clips” – who, with more than a day in the Army, calls box magazines “ammo clips”? So, I’m thinking that John Cole was a cook, or anything except someone his unit would allow to guard something. And, I’m pretty sure that between the Iraq Wars, the Army was using 9mm Barettas and not the M1911A1 .45 cal pistol.
And the reason any magazines were taped wasn’t to prevent the ammunition from loading. The Army did that when ammunition was passed between guard shifts for accountability. But, of course, any dingus who thought they’re called “ammo clips” wouldn’t know that.
So why do I call Balloon Juice a shit hole? Because all of their writers are gun grabbing facists, apparently. They write shit like this;
Bernard Finel: If it were in my power, I’d seize every fucking firearm in the country other than revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles and melt them all down.
mistermix: If you must own an AR-15 or Bushmaster or AK-47, it should stay locked in your personal gun cabinet at the range, never to leave. If you change ranges, a bonded courier can take it to the new one. The same is true of the high-capacity clips for your Glock, your 100-round drum magazines, and all the other expensive toys that let you bang off a couple of dozen rounds in a minute. Yeah, that’s expensive and a nuisance. So are the laws surrounding other potentially unsafe pursuits.
Mistermix, my Glock uses high capacity magazines, not clips. The ammunition for my M4 is in clips until I put the bullets in the magazine. If you’re going to talk the language of gun control, learn the language of guns first.
After posting the Wikipedia entry for events leading up to the UK’s gun ban, Imani Gandy (ABL) posts this;
Am I suggesting that we ban handguns? No, not really. I am suggesting we have a sensible discussion about gun-control laws that leads to, as President Obama put it, meaningful action.
If you weren’t suggesting that we ban guns, why did you have to tell us that the UK banned guns because of an incident somewhat similar to Sandy Hook? Every leftist gun grabbing fascist on the internet is talking about “a sensible discussion”, but their discussion of a sensible discussion is senseless.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists
Again NO CAUSATION between increased gun ownership and homocide..
“Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.
The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent”
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/#ixzz2FMqEm4Ct
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010
@648
Adam Lanza was a legal resident in his mother’s house. You know, like you live in your mom’s basement, munching down Cheetohs and fighting the Kenyan Marxist Tyranny on your computer?
You’re telling me that leaving your guns out where your schizo mentally-ill kid can get them is somehow an argument against stricter controls on who can buy Bushmasters w/30 round MAGAZINES?
@653
“Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease…” So I guess you’re saying that the increase in gun sales means that there are more US households with guns? And if the opposite were true, than the drop in gun crimes would be cause of that drop in ownership.
Right you are. The drop in gun crimes has been accompanied by a drop in households with guns.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/23/news/la-pn-crime-is-down-and-so-is-gun-ownership-20120722
And they’ve decreased even more in countries with laws that make it harder for mentally ill and criminally violent to get their hands on guns. In Australia, for example.
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
Have you been in the Lanza house, Hammerhead? You know for a fact that Mrs. Lanza left her guns out so her “schizo mentally-ill kid” could use them to murder her? OR, are you just making yet another WAG?
It’s at least as probable that Lanza assaulted his mother, gained control of the key to wherever the guns were stored, and got a gun, went back and pumped 4 rounds into his mom’s head. Then set off in search of his 15 minutes of fame.
No, it’s an example of illegally obtained firearms. The argument against stricter gun control laws is found in the information I provided and you still haven’t read.
And for the record, Adam’s mental problems manifest themselves while he was still in middle school. The biggest problem here is an individual that should have been institutionalized but wasn’t, most likely in part because our PC society doesn’t allow ‘labels’ anymore, and institutionalizing someone is next to impossible thanks to the well meaning but totally idiotic efforts of the ACLU.
And for the third time, Brainless Hammer – I never made any such assertion. What I said was that other factors are much more important than laws regulating firearms.
I’m also not obligated to answer your incomplete and leading question merely because you want an answer. Don’t like that fact? Tough. Deal with it. Not your call whether or not I answer your question, dipstick.
Mexico’s firearms laws are similar – or perhaps even more strict – than those of several European countries. Yet Mexico has a higher violent crime and murder rate than does most if not all European nations. Yet Canada has similar firearms laws – and has a lower violent crime and murder rate.
Further: US homicide rates vary widely by location. Take Utah – which in 2009 had the lowest Brady Score (a numerical measure of the strictness of a state’s legal restrictions on gun ownership) in the US at ZERO. Utah had a firearms homicide rate of 0.70 per 100k citizens – about 1/4 of the national average. Several states tied for the next-lowest Brady Score (2); these ranged from states having firearms homicide rates of less than 1/3 the national average to the highest in the nation. Several states tied for the third-lowest Brady Score (4); these ranged from the lowest firearms homicide rate in the nation (ZERO, in North Dakota) to the third-highest in the nation. Conversely, the state with the 5th-highest Brady Score in the US – Maryland – had the second-highest firearms murder rate in the entire US.
In short: there simply is no statistical correlation between restrictive firearms ownership laws and gun homicide. Other factors govern a locality’s firearms murder rate.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=30444
And, in #655, you state, “The drop in gun crimes has been accompanied by a drop in households with guns”. While conveniently(for your argument) leaving off this sentence, “public support for gun control measures has plummeted as well”. Seems you have a penchant for half-truths.
@655 So you would support YOUR medical records being public records right? You would cede YOUR right to privacy?
Again you show no causation, Chicago should have NO guns based on its laws and crime is soaring.
BTW, so is gun crimes in England..
Brainless Hammer: even a second-grader with a learning disability understands that a dead person cannot legitimately be held responsible for actions they did not cause which occurred after they are dead. This is particularly true when you’re talking about the actions of the same lunatic who murdered them.
Talk about blaming the victim. What’s next – are you going to claim that the shooter was a victim too, or that the other victims somehow “brought this on themselves”? Have you no common sense, decency, or shame?
I guess not. And that doesn’t surprise me one whit.
Ben Hammer do you even read your own links? Again causation. Austrailia’s homocide by gun has been decreasing since 1969 accrding to YOUR source. Their gun restrictions weren’t even passed until 1996, so please tell me how they were decreasing even without legislation..mmm?
@648: Don’t forget that Lanza attempted to purchase a rifle 2 weeks ago and was denied, so the current system worked and he had to murder his mom in order to get the guns he used.
@652
“guns bad” — y’all are pathetic . I’m a gun owner who spent 9 years as a 12B and 11A. Unlike you, I think leaving a Booooshmaster w/30 round MAGAZINES (god, that was priceless, you dweebs claiming that calling a magazine a ‘clip’ proved that Cole wasn’t a cav trooper) or a Glock or a Sig or an mk19 grenade launcher out where your violent schizo kid can get them is bad. That stuff needs to be under lock and key in any house.
Irresponsible fools like poor Mrs Lanza or the whackjob w/the concealed carry in FL last month who killed the kid for playing music too loud and the nutjob w/the concealed carry in Seattle who offed 5 people in May shouldn’t be allowed to own weapons like those.
@663
So you’re saying the CT gun laws that kept Lanza from buying another weapon worked? Good. I agree. OTOH, they need to be toughened up so the weapons he used wouldn’t have been in a house w/a violent mentally ill 20 year old.
Hondo
It’s called a debating technique. It’s used to illicit an expected response from an adversary which helps to make your original argument, i.e. we already have reasonable gun regulations, in this case on automatic weapons. My argument is not we should ban all guns, it’s that we already have reasonable restrictions on guns. Thus why is it ridiculous to ask about regulating semi-autos and things like high capacity magazines?
I’m sorry that you don’t understand that there are various techniques to present an argument and one of those is to use a device that has the other side acknowledge that part of your argument is valid, while they think they are advancing their own.
Your response was equally predictable, “you fooled me into agreeing with something you are saying so your argument doesn’t count”.
And if you think that automatic weapons shouldn’t be regulated the I ask where do you draw the line? If you believe in the purity of the second amendment then you can’t say I shouldn’t be able to have any weapon I want, RPG’s SAM’s, etc., otherwise you are just cherry picking the 2nd. OTOH if you admit that society has an overwhelming need to regulate the arms people can have, then I ask again, why should things like high capacity magazines, or certain semi-auto guns be exempt from such regulations?
@664 Yep but what you are talking about is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY– Good luck trying to regulate that. The state of Connecticut had NO reason to deny gun ownership to the late Ms. Lanza, and short of digging into the medical records(which I am sure the left will denounce) of her and ALL the members of her household- no legislation would have stopped this tragedy. We keep going back to this. Connecticut also had an assault weapon ban on par with the one that expired federally…
No, Hammer – you are a pathetic jackass and a crass opportunist. Here, you’re deliberately blaming one of the victims vice placing blame on the perpetrator where it belongs. And you’re doing so for no other reason than to further a political agenda.
That is absolutely disgusting. As are you for doing so.
If the violent, mentally ill, 20 year old had been in an institution where he belonged we wouldn’t have had to worry about it at all.
Wonder how many kids he could have wiped out by slamming through recess in an automobile at 60 mph and cuttin a few ‘cookies’, maybe his mom shouldn’t have been allowed to own a vehicle either eh?
Confused: I am aware that Brainless Hammer is trying – and failing pathetically – to bait. He’s proving himself a fool and a tool while doing so.
However, blaming the victim is way over the line. Only a completely disgusting jackass stoops to that crap.
Don’t apologize for him. Let him either apologize for himself – or continue to show the world his ugly ass.
As I recall, the only place I’ve mentioned automatic weapons above was to castigate you for either (1) deliberately dissembling or (2) showing abject ignorance concerning what automatic weapons are in one of your previous comments. Did you ever decide whether you wanted to own up to being mendacious, or to merely displaying ignorance?
@662
You really want to discuss Australia’s homicide rates in the 70s and 80s and 90s? Really? Tell me your theory… and use numbers with links, please. Hope you note that the % of Australian households with guns fell pretty much the entire time.
A couple years after the laws were passed in 1997 (in response to a paranoid schizo w/an AR killing 35 people), homicides began falling sharply . Gun homicides fell even more sharply, to less than half what they were. The rate of firearm-related homicides in 2009 per 100,000 people was .09. In the US? It was 40x that. 3.7.
Now correlation isn’t necessarily causation.
Other variable could’ve accounted for part of this fall. But in the absence of other explanations — and none of you have offered any — a firearm-related homicide rate that’s 1/40th of ours deserves a closer look.
And that’s not counting the 1000s of accidental firearm deaths and injuries, suicides, etc…
@671 You want me to dispute information from the source YOU provided. Bwaaahhaaaa..
I notice that you mooks have quit claiming that Mexico is more like the USA than Canada/Australia/the UK/Germany.
Good job, mooks.
@672
You’re the one who accepted that source and cited it to say that I was misinterpreting it. If you’ve changed your mind and no longer accept it, explain why. We promise not to laugh.
Seriously folks, you do realize nobody’s gonna take away your guns? Just like nobody’s been going to take them away for the last 4 years?
I and the huge majority of Americans believe the present laws need to be enforced (google up the vids of the Bloomberg sting on gun show sellers selling to guys saying that they couldn’t pass a background check), non-hunting weapons need to be more tightly controlled and that the mentally ill shouldn’t have guns.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2012/12/gun-control-policies.jpg
If you like to go hawntin’ with a Booooooshmaster w/a 30 rnd banana MAGAZINE or leave it lying around the house where your violent schizo kid can get his hands on it… you’re part of the problem.
Confused writes – ” If you believe in the purity of the second amendment then you can’t say I shouldn’t be able to have any weapon I want, RPG’s SAM’s, etc., otherwise you are just cherry picking the 2nd.”
You’re attempting to frame the debate within extremely transparent parameters while engaging in some also transparent hyperbole. We should all have access to what the average infantry grunt would be expected to show up to the party with in a hurry should the nation ever call on us. Large caliber assault and battle rifles, and high cap mags fit the bill perfectly, they also fit the spirit and the letter of the 2nd.
And Hammer, still waiting for you to read the honest stats on gun violence and self defense provided above. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock…..
@677 You will be waiting awhile. He doesn’t even read his own links. 🙂
Hondo,
I wasn’t defending hammer, I wasn’t even referring to him.
Did you not read my reply to you. Yes, I was intentionally dissembling help to prove my point. I wanted Ranger to respond to my post by talking about how we already regulate automatic weapons, so that I could respond with, “exactly my point”. He didn’t argue that we should legalize automatic weapons, so my question to everyone is; if we already regulate guns, and the world hasn’t come to an end, then why can’t there be a discussion about what other weapons or accessories should be looked at?
And if all guns should be legal because of the 2nd amendment, then what other arms should also be legal. Either the 2nd amendment allows everybody to own any weapon, or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then why are certain things sacred to the NRA types.
Instead of giving me a credible reason for having things like high capacity magazines you choose to pick on a device used to further part of my argument. It’s called deflection, ignoring the actual argument and focusing on the irrelevant because you think it scores you argument “points”. Things like focusing on terms like clip instead of magazine as if that adds anything to your side of the debate.
Jacobite:
“We should all have access to what the average infantry grunt would be expected to show up to the party with in a hurry should the nation ever call on us”
That’s a pretty silly interpretation of the second amendment. It wasn’t about the minuteman idea. If it was then they certainly could have delineated those parameters. They wanted to raise a militia because there was no provision to keep a standing army. Again, canons, the most up to date arms at the time were privately owned, and the owners often temporarily loaned their arms to regional militias. Also, today’s average grunt would be equipped with things like grenades would they not? 2nd amendment fetishists talk about it as it is absolute. Then ignore the fact that at the time the term “arms” did not just refer to guns.
Friends of Nancy Lanza are speaking out to denounce the looney left’s description of her as a “gun nut doomsday prepper”. Good job you fucking morons, missing the mark as usual.
@657
“institutionalizing someone is next to impossible thanks to the well meaning but totally idiotic efforts of the ACLU.”
Care to tell me why the kid wasn’t in a group home? The poor foolish woman made the call to keep her violent son in the house w/an unlocked arsenal that she thought was gonna see her through the coming Kenyan Marxist Tyranny (she evidently believed all the crap she heard on Rush and Fox 24/7). That was her call. She could probably have had him institutionalized but, ever since Ronald Reagan, there hasn’t been funding for mental hospitals, so it would’ve cost her a fortune.
If he wasn’t taking his meds, that’s the fault of our present system. The present situation has families forced to deal with “adults” who are in reality, still children, without much (often without any) support from the rest of us. That has to change. So, even if the law were such that “adults” could be forced to take their meds and undergo tx, we’ve slashed funding so much that there’s no resources to help families make it happen.
If you want to blame the ACLU for those laws, that’s fine. That means you and I need to step up and help change the law… and, with our taxes, help fund treatment for the millions of mentally ill. About 50 million, as it happens.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/us-usa-health-mental-idUSTRE80I0DC20120119
I guess hammeroid here isn’t going to pay attention to what people that KNEW Nancy Lanza are saying about her. Of course not, that would only prove you wrong and all your vitriol as pure bull shit. It’s ok though, you weren’t fooling anyone here anyways.
Jacobite,
I’ve responded to most of the requests for clarification and links. Haven’t seen your compadres return that courtesy to my request for other explanations as to why homicide rates have fallen all over the 1st world as gun ownership rates have fallen. In a 600+ thread, you probably should expect that I would miss a couple requests. Feel free to repost them.
Or use the magic of reverse peristalsis to bunch your panties all the way to your duodenum. Makes no nevermind to me.
@681 – Yeah, Redacted, I did provide multiple links to valid news reports, including interviews with her sister-in-law, that clearly showed there was no reference in those reports that Nancy Lanza was in any way connected to the doomsday ideology or that she was a prepper.
All of that came from the looney tunes on the left, and it was based on nothing, made up out of whole cloth, to vilify the first victim in a string of murderous attacks.
The loons on the left are turning into the worst sort of carrion feeders imaginable. Their behavior and rumor-mongering is baseless and defenseless. I guess they just don’t give a crap whose lives they ruin as long as they get to spout lies about people who have done nothing to deserve that.
Too emotionally fragile in my opinion Ex-PH, the fact they link everyone who owns a firearm to this kid is indicative of a mental disorder.
@683
Vitriol. This from the crew that lies about veteran’s service records and can’t stop talking about ass sex. Now that’s summmmm funnnnyy sheeeet.
Nancy Lanza was getting $289,000/year in alimony. Unlike most parents of mentally ill adult children, she could’ve afforded to get him more care.
Irregardless of that, she was very aware of how dangerous the kid was. To keep ARs and large-capacity handguns unlocked in the house with him was foolish. But you evidently think otherwise. That’s insane.
@569: “Gun Free Zones” should be renamed “Victim Marshaling Area”. The evidence bears this out. Why did the chucklehead in Aurora go to a theater further from his apartment? Because he knew it was a “gun free zone”. Why such a loss of life at Virginia Tech? Because it was a “gun free zone”. Same thing at the elementary school.
Damn! Now that I know that, Im going to call my two Senators and my Congressman right away and tell them to get rid of those metal detectors at Congress!
And right after that, I’m going to call the guys at airport security and tell explain how my local airport will be a far, far safer place if they’d just get rid of those stupid, useless metal detectors.
Who knew security could be so easy?
I’m sure we can achieve a “Somalia” level of security in this country in 2013!
I do? There you go jumping to conclusions again. Now, please cite EXACTLY where I said that. Verbatim please. Wouldn’t want to confuse you any further.
Take your time, I know it’s alot of work to sift through 650+ posts, most of which is pure bullshit from Cole’s completely retarded followers.
If only Lanza’s mother had firearms, this all could have been prevented…
And remember you gun grabbing commie fucks, if Lanza didn’t have guns then he simply would have just built a zeppelin and crashed it into the school.
@691
Guns don’t kill people, YAG YAS. If Adam Lanza hadn’t of had a Boooooshmaster with 30 rnd MAGAZINES, he would’ve beaten his way through the windows of the school and then killed those 20 kids and 6 teachers with his tiny, ineffectual fists.
50 million mentally ill Americans all need Boooooshmasters and banana MAGAZINES. Then we’ll be safe.
So gun owners are all mentally ill now? Like I said. Emotionally fragile. Hard time finding that post substantiating your horseshit in 687? Ok. I’ll give you a break since you seem to have a hard time thinking for yourself. You’re not gonna find it.
@693
Meh. He’s just mentally challenged. He is incapable of reading a full sentence and keeping it in context. I’m done with him.
Redacted and Nik,
50 million Americans are mentally ill or experienced an episode of mental illness in the past year. Thanks for playing, dweebs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601651.html
“One-quarter of all Americans met the criteria for having a mental illness within the past year, and fully a quarter of those had a “serious” disorder that significantly disrupted their ability to function day to day…”
@618
“trying to present himself as someone who’d faced “great danger” in the military only exacerbates the effect.”
Your use of quotes makes the statement seem definitive. Could you please cite when he used that phrase?
If you have used “scare quotes” when you might have just as well merely summarized his position is unhelpful to a useful discussion. But again, this is the Internet, to there you go.
Sorry in advance if I missed when he said those exact words that you seem to have quoted directly.
I am not trying to be a pill, I just worry that you might be framing an argument using a flammable immobile object that frightens birds.
@697
Is that even allowed?, no matter…
Correction.
I was probably trying to be a pill. My language and argument were inflammatory and I apologize for both.
Rough day.
P.S.: One more split infinitive, go team.
@696 Oh wow, a leftist calling someone they don’t know personally who disagrees with them a racist, chickenhawk and a homophobe. I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
Good to see that leftist are the same; no matter what country they live in..
Psst 696, you do realize that most of the posters on here have served, many in ACTUAL combat– and they have proved their service… One of the purposes of this blog was to out the Stolen Valor idiots kinda hard to do when you are posing yourself..
Another GUN NUT ILLITERATE!! All right-wing wackos are illiterate.
“Yeah, I’ve read some real stupid shit in teh interwebz today in regards to gun control”
In REGARDS???? The word is REGARD!!!
“gun grabbing facists”???
It’s FASCIST, you illiterate!!
Laws don’t do anything to stop anyone from anything, so let’s have no laws or regulations at all.
DUH… brainwashed Republican moron logic
But we are all for MIND CONTROL, PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING AND PROFILING, AND MANDATORY DRUGS TO MAKE THE BIG PHARMA PRICKS EVEN RICHER.
Gun-nut redneck truckfucks arent exactly the brightest poeple on the planet.