Joni Ernst, the “combat veteran”
Senator Joni Ernst commanded a company of transportation folks in Iraq in 2003-2004 and now she’s being criticized by those people on the other side of the aisle because she calls herself a “combat veteran”. From Raw Story;
The newly elected Republican lawmaker defended her military service record after a Huffington Post article pointed out that she never came under fire while serving in Iraq and Kuwait more than a decade ago, reported the Omaha World-Herald.
[…]
The report pointed out that Ernst frequently reminded voters and now constituents of her combat veteran status, and she has not corrected others when they suggest she led troops into battle.
“I am very proud of my service and by law I am defined as a combat veteran,” Ernst said. “I have never once claimed that I have a Combat Action Badge. I have never claimed that I have a Purple Heart. What I have claimed is that I have served in a combat zone.”
First of all, the stank-ass hippies at the Huffington Post aren’t the arbiters of who is a combat veteran and who isn’t. This sounds like something I’d read at VoteVets or in an IAVA scorecard. I think that Jessica Lynch might take exception with the Huffington Post that truckdrivers aren’t allowed to call themselves “combat soldiers”.
Several people who thought that I’d agree with them have sent me links to the various stories about Ernst complaining that she’s stealing valor. I disagree, not because she’s a Republican, but because she’s a veteran who served in an area that earned her “imminent danger pay”. If she was claiming honors that she didn’t earn, I’d agree, but she hasn’t.
We go on and on about telling the truth, that all military service is honorable without embellishment. Ernst hasn’t said that she was kicking doors or interrogating prisoners or anything else. She has said that it was the luck of the draw that her unit didn’t encounter enemy soldiers or improvised explosives. That’s true, not everyone spends their 20 years in the service in constant danger and in contact with our enemies. She was in Iraq and she led the troops in her command in a way that they were able to complete their mission without any injuries and that is an accomplishment in itself.
Yes, we’ve disagreed with veterans in politics but without criticizing their actual service, and I’m not going to begin now. Even the Huffinton Post admits that Ernst and her troops performed admirably;
Senator Ernst calls herself a combat veteran at every turn — on her Senate web page, in campaign debates, and in her stump speeches. She can say this because she served in a combat zone.
And it’s technically true. She was company commander of the Iowa National Guard’s 1168th Transportation Company during its tour of active duty in Kuwait and southern Iraq, from February 2003 to April 2004. But the unit was never in a firefight, or for that matter attacked at all; it delivered supplies, and later, guarded the front gate and ran perimeter patrol at their home base outside Kuwait City, Camp Arifjan.
The HuffPo finds a veteran who will criticize her, but they haven’t bothered talking to anyone who will defend her. This is not my surprised expression.
Thanks to Bobo for the link to Raw Story
ADDED: I just talked to TSO and he says that the reporter at HuffPo, Andrew Reinbach, interviewed him for an hour for that article and TSO pretty much said what I wrote – but HuffPo didn’t use even a minute of the interview with him. Gee, I wonder why?
Category: Media
Where’s the major networks crying about the Liberal media’s “war on women?” Oh that’s right, she’s a conservative (who has done more for her country than they ever will) so she’s not a “real woman”.
Remember, it’s okay when they do it.
VoteVets has nothing credible to say about this, and here’s 2 words why. Jon Soltz.
When politics is in play, semantics loom large. I’m not sure what the term “combat veteran” even means (is there an “official designation” anywhere? If there is I’m not aware of it.)
When I used to write for the blog The Truth About Guns, the editor once referred to me as a “combat veteran” and I immediately emailed him a correction that as I never engaged in direct combat (did most of my fighting with a computer), I consider myself a “war veteran” but not a “combat veteran.”
Perhaps it’s too subtle a distinction for those who don’t understand military service, where even in the midst of war, most of the jobs are pretty mundane and don’t involve fighting.
Congress established the rules under which a person qualifies as having performed combat service and is therefor a Combat Veteran and entitled to certain benefits.
It’s 38 USC 1710(e)(1)(D) and 38 USC 1712A(a)(2)(B), and the actual policy (which by law was coordinated with DOD) is explained in detail in VHA Policy Directive 2008-054, specifically in Attachment A
http://www.va.gov/vhapublications/ViewPublication.asp?pub_ID=1758
In short, an individual is a combat veteran if: they serve in a Combat Zone Tax Exclusion Area, or if they take part in “hostilities” (this is satisfied by the individual having qualified for both Hostile Fire/Imminent Danger Pay and award of a DOD Campaign, Expeditionary, or Service Medal).
This latter standard is what convey’s “Combat Veteran” status to individuals who served in Grenada, Lebanon, El Salvador, Panama, the pre-Desert Shield Persian Gulf, and Somalia as examples.
Having served in a Sustainment Command in Iraq during OIF 07-09,logisitics Soldiers and the convoy protection platforms that were the “tail” to the “teeth”, suffered some fairly high casualties, and paid a heavy price for keeping the Warfighter in Beans and Bullets.
Below is a link from CALL with some actual numbers to substantiate this, so “Combat Veteran” has some pretty broad specifications.
I once saw a small, blond Air Force 20 something E-3 with pearl earrings on, who VOLUNTEERED to drive in these convoys, so I suppose she wasn’t a “Combat Veteran” either.
Someone once used the expression for their emotional state on one of these convoys: “You couldn’t get a ten-penny nail up my as& with a sledge hammer if you tried”
http://www.aepi.army.mil/docs/whatsnew/SMP_Casualty_Cost_Factors_Final1-09.pdf
“You couldn’t get a ten-penny nail up my as& with a sledge hammer if you tried”
Yep, that pretty well describes my 100k+ convoy miles in Iraq 2003-2004.
And that’s precisely WHY they are “combat vets”. The tension and the waiting are what cause the stress; if nothing happens you consider yourself lucky… but you’re still “in combat”.
Agreed.
If I even tried to tell anyone my ass didn’t pucker shut every time I left the wire I’d be a flaming-assed liar!
Are they out of their fucking MINDS!
I was in a transportation company and we got hit harder than the infantry some days.
FUCK THEM IN THE ASS WITH A CHAINSAW!
There were a few contractor truck drivers and contractor recovery teams that got killed and injured driving those roads too.
Your comment brings back memories from approx 2004 and the media doing stories on civilians signing up to become truck drivers for these convoys. The message then was “see how bad the economy is that these young men must leave their families and go to a hostile environment to earn a paycheck.” It sure was a hostile environment to the media back then. I suppose in the archives of sites such as HUFFPO there may be these type of stories to be found.
Perhaps my definition is overly restrictive but to me a “combat veteran” is one who personally engaged in combat with the enemy, or who was engaged by the enemy (whether by direct fire, indirect fire or even mines/IEDs/Booby traps, etc.)
Using that definition even the person who maintained the MWR sports equipment locker at Balad Airbase could call himself a “combat veteran” if the base got mortared or rocketed while he was there.
OTOH the guy who sat on his butt at Camp Doha in Kuwait (which would be me) doesn’t qualify even though he may have drawn IDP and CZTE as well as being authorized a right sleeve patch and credit for a “combat tour” in his records.
I remember flying into Kuwait in ’05 and getting on a bus taking us to Doha. Our “Guard” was a guy who got on the bus with an M249 SAW, but didn’t have any ammo…
But, I’d say more so I had questions about Manas in Kyrgystan. It was a combat zone and if you were permanent party there, you got to go on Horsie Rides in the hills with the USO.
Baghdad sucked, but I’d rather be there any day. My FOB in Afghanistan was fairly awesome though, even with a lot of nights of IDF right over my hooch, I’d take that as a choice any day.
At the same time, there are plenty of people who’d take that seat from you just to merely get the combat patch Martin.
I’d be curious to see what the current stats are on Army personnel who have been deployed at this point.
As far as I’m concerned, if she’s eligible to join the VFW, she’s a combat vet, and the Huffington Post can fuck right off.
Ditto
I loath attacks like these for two primary reasons. First, the effect it can have on women who are thinking of serving but don’t for fear their service will be marginalized. The thinly veiled jab at having been a gate guard, when we know it wasn’t that simply, would not have been brought up if the Senator were male.
Second, the implied reasoning that being a combat vet is some how “better” then being any other kind. In my opinion the term Veteran shouldn’t be something that is subject to gradation(internal difference like earned benefits etc aside of course) when being referenced to by those who have never worn a uniform.
Just my two cents from a non-combat veteran or whatever the correct term is now.
The thinly veiled jab at having been a gate guard, when we know it wasn’t that simply, would not have been brought up if the Senator were…DEMOCRAT.
There, fixed it for you.
As long as she has something to prove she’s engaged in combat with the enemy she’s got nothing to worry about.
She’s not playing the victim card, so they have no use for her.
It’s pretty typical of the meme. If the women / veterans stop being victims, what will the progressives have to fight for?
(That was sarcasm, by the way.)
“It’s pretty typical of the meme. If the women / veterans stop being victims, what will the progressives have to fight for?”
Nailed it.
Her and women like her are among the biggest threats to the progressive’s continued political relevance.
Tell me again that Truck drivers are not Combat Veterans….. Here is a story about one of those drivers who just so happens to be a Personal Hero of Mine! http://www.greatamericans.com/video/Wounded-Warrior-Citizen-Soldier
My service is not a pimple on an nats ass compared to hers!!!!! She drove a truck…..The point of the spear has to get bullets and beans somehow…..
That young lady is real fine American.
Wow! She’s more woman than I am, that’s for sure!
E-6 nailed it.
HUFPO defended Blumenthal when he “misspoke”. A bunch of douche nozzles.
That’s all you need to know about this liberal-agenda bullshit. Its okay to “fake” service if you have a (D) after your name. But if you have an (R), you can do nothing right.
I’d like to see even one of those hipster douchebags at Huffpopotamus get in a truck and drive thru a combat zone even once. Doubtful since they’d have to leave their mom’s basement and would miss the 365 home-cooked dinners they get every year.
Not to mention the perpetual free internet and XBox sessions!!
So, they defended a guy who never stepped foot in the combat zone, yet they bag on Joni for actually being in the combat zone?
Last I checked, Iraq, in 2003-04, was some serious shit and truck drivers had big assed signs on them that said “shoot at me” and they deserved a whole lot more credit than Blumenthal got.
Of course, it’s a stank ass hippie blog, so I don’t expect anything resembling intellectual honesty or integrity out of them.
For the record, two Medals of Honor went to truckers during the Viet Nam war:
http://www.transchool.lee.army.mil/museum/transportation%20museum/MOH.htm
Yeah, Gun Trucks!!!
An M35 2 1/2 Ton or a M54 5-Ton with a turret mounted Quad 50.
The real deal,and that’s no shit.
One of the odd things about the gun trucks of the time was that they always seemed to be thrown together from whatever weapons and armor happened to be around. I remember catching a ride on one with a minigun near Pleiku one day, and a guy on one of the other dual-mount M-60s handed me an intercom headset. It was playing, no pun intended, some hard-drivin’ rock ‘n’ roll.
Perry, after the Army turned me into the motor pool parts clerk, up through the mid 1970’s I worked with a couple of guys who had been 64C gun truck drivers/crewmen in RVN.
They were (and I say this in the best way I know how) “different” in the way they went about soldiering. Especially the man who was the Wrecker Operator in our ADA Battery for my first tour to Germany. Talk about a “Wild and Crazy Guy”, he was definitely an example of that. One of those guys who you knew were going to stay a Spec4 for their whole careers, but was one hell of a good driver/recovery man.
There were some awesome gun trucks in Kuwait, too. I was the ops NCO of Camp Truckville just outside Arifjan and making my rounds around camp I would often see these wild gun trucks used for convoy runs from Kuwait all the way up to Balad and even further.
I can remember seeing 5 ton dumps with makeshift wooden and steel armor/ 2 .50 pintle mounts w/gun shields in Mosul in 2004 – scary in a Road Warrior kinda way :).
When I got home from Iraq in summer of 2003, I went back to work for my defense contractor, we advised the govt and other contractors on how to build their programs and win contracts. I was asked to meet with a defense company, can’t remember who, to discuss what kind of vehicles were needed and I said modern gun trucks. As a kid I used to study the Vietnam badasses that rode and built those.
The contractor was adamant they wanted to know what special ops needed and I said they were fine, the convoy’s needed gun trucks as this was when the convoy attacks started to ramp up. Or course, they went away unhappy.
I know you are talking about a different kind of contractor… but when I was there in 2010, KBR was running Theater Transportation trucks that were up-armored Mercedes Benz tractors, and up-armored Volvo tractors. Each had plastic oil pans and totally unprotected plastic air lines. In most cases, each 1/2″ armor plate was held on by 2 bolts, as most of the other bolts had broken off and were not installed with any never-seize on the threads. I hated those plastic oil pans and air lines. IMHO KBR knew absolutely nothing about Fleet Maintenance. I am certain they knew nothing about ordering parts, because I never had any to work with. I worked for them for 3 months, then moved on.
As Jonn pointed out, it’s not about “Veteran” or “Combat Veteran” or “War Veteran” or “Fobbit” – it is one of the basic “Rules for Radicals” that the masses must be kept divided into smaller opposing groups, to make them easier to control. I see this as a thinly veiled attempt by HuffPo to get conservatives arguing on the definition of a “Combat Veteran” and divide us by silly labels.
Don’t fall into their trap.
I just talked to TSO and he says that the reporter at HuffPo interviewed him for an hour for that article and TSO pretty much said what I wrote – but HuffPo didn’t use even a minute of the interview with him. Gee, I wonder why?
Because, if we don’t agree with PuffinHoes, we’re all knuckle-dragging neanderthals?
Yes, you are.
*OOG!* ME PROUDLY ACCEPT TITLE!!! *GRUNT!* 😀
If he has a recording of it, it would be fun to post it and let them try to explain the omission.
Yes. Yes it would. O please post if you have it.
I like Senator Joni Ernst. I pray that she and all those like her bring some sanity to Washington, DC.
She has bigger balls than all of those asswipes over at HuffPo… and I’m one of those that believes she’s gonna make a huge difference in DC.
I don’t understand the issue, I guess. If in the service of the United States, a soldier is deployed to a combat zone, then that’s a combat soldier. Whether that soldier engages in a firefight or hand-to-hand combat is another matter, covered by other regs. Why should Ernst deny herself what is hers because some assholes who don’t have a clue what they are talking about take issue with her? I don’t know but I can pretty much guess that rolling along in a truck in the land of IEDs and suicide bombers is not something that makes for a pleasant drive.
Hey, LBJ was a combat vet and had the Silver Star to prove it too!!.
If she can join the VFW, she’s a combat vet.
Just because she didn’t get shot at doesn’t mean she couldn’t have been shot at…maybe the jagoffs at HuffPo would like to wander around where Ms. Ernst served to find out what that AO was actually like at the time.
Being fortunate to not take enemy fire while in enemy territory is quite a bit different than what the turds at HuffPo are trying to proclaim. She was in a combat AO where she fortunately did not take an IED or shot fired in anger…so how many bullets do the jagoffs over there require before one can rightly consider themselves a combat veteran? 20-30-100? Or just the one that kills someone in your unit?
^THAT^
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Getting shot at isn’t hard. Wrong place, wrong time, and *poof* bob’s your uncle you’re in contact.
Spending 12+ months in a combat zone IS hard. Doing your job in adverse conditions in a persistent threat environment IS hard. THAT’s what makes a combat veteran.
Some blokes I served with were in the position of completing a tour of Uruzgan Province, AFG out the wire the whole time, but never actually facing the enemy in a small arms fire engagement. Sure, they were all glad and grateful to have come back home alive and proud of a job well done. But they did say from time to time that they didn’t feel as though they’d fulfilled their role as infantrymen because they didn’t get any rounds down.
Wrong. As is said above, it’s the willingness to get out the wire and live in the mud that counts. Being physically present in a stoush is often just luck (or lack of it).
Interesting point: The Australian Army honours and awards system recognises this in the criteria for the Infantry Combat Badge (ICB). The badge is awarded for 90 days in a combat zone, and does not result from the promulgation of a combat action report. I’ll be the first to admit that this is far from ideal as the badge may be viewed as less reflective of a particular soldier’s career, but it does show the emphasis what one achieved, rather than what one experienced.
…..my $0.02
Steve…..I agree with what you say about being shot at isn’t hard. From my experience, it was the unknown while on patrol that kicked your ass. Where are they? Are they up around that tree line? It flat wore me out. Stress, stress, and more stress. I can remember one time while walking point, I took us right into a u shaped bunker complex. Thank god it was abandoned! I just about shit my pants
Ha I bet you weren’t itching for a fight at that point!
Steve……that experience was my second time out. I was a newby. Having me walk point was inexcusable. We worked out platoon size. One squad out front in the am, the other in the afternoon. I was walking point everyday, which was bullshit. I figured it out pretty quick! I remember telling the squad leader that I would walk point after everyone in my squad took their turn. Their was no way he should have put the lives of the platoon in my hands. I was green as grass!
Joni Ernst seems like the kind of Senator I’d like whether or not she is a veteran. Probably would like her just as much if she was male. It also would not matter if she hailed from any other state, and had ancestral roots from any continent on the planet.
Yeah, that’s the kind of stinkin’ thinkin’ that lefties hate. Yep, Joni Ernst’s actions are what I admire, not her heritage, gender or any other insignificant detail over which neither she nor I have any control.
Oh, and for the record, I also correct people when they refer to me as a “combat vet.” We did not directly engage in combat operations, but were close enough to get paid for it, so technically, perhaps I am. Just don’t try to call me one. Everyone who was close enough to the enemy that they carried arms to defend their position certainly is without regard to MOS.
I think that “news source” is the definition we need to consider. HuffPo is not a news source. Like Rush, they are an entertainment web site.
HuffPo exists to prop up the people who like them and piss off the people who don’t like them. They do not exist to supply information.
If we can agree that they are an entertainment web site then we can all step back and fight about whether they are funny or not.
I vote “rarely”.
They are occasionally entertaining, but never (well, maybe “rarely”) funny. Still, they can exercise their first amendment rights as long as their funding sources can afford it.
They have funny animal videos.
Funny Animal Videos? Wait.
Ohhhhhh, I thought they were doing videos of their offices. you know, like trying to make reality shows on the internet or something. Those aren’t people? Damn.
Assholes will be assholes and stank-ass hippies are always assholes.
When I was in art school, yes – vet and artist – I did a project and put the tag on it of “If you don’t like cops, call a hippie next time you’re mugged”
Had one of the hippies in my class say “I find the term ‘hippie’ offensive.”
I looked at him and said “I don’t give a fuck.”
Professor was not happy about that. I told her that she said we had to present and explain our work, not that we had to give a shit what someone else thought of it. I got a B in the class – think she just wanted to get rid of me.
Yep, all hippies are assholes. some just stink worse that others.
Q: WHY do Hippies stink?
A: SO BLIND PEOPLE CAN HATE THEM TOO!! 😀
Bahahahahahahaha.
Jonn, if I might make a simple request…
WE NEED A LIKE BUTTON!!!
The biggest threat in country was IEDs, where were most IEDs placed? Along MSRs and ASRs. I don’t know how many times I went to the aid of a transportation unit that had been hit. They were soft targets. 88Ms and the rest of the transport people don’t get enough credit.
So I’m going to open a can of worms by saying I’ve only heard of (then Army Captain) Joni Ernst being in Kuwait, not southern Iraq. For all the (other) transportation types posting on this thread, I want to discuss that Kuwait-to-Iraq run, how many times you did it, and where you started and stopped. Keep in mind I’m not being dismissive of the Ma’am’s service or qualification to be called a “combat veteran”.
I’m referring to Facebook comments like Don Pugsley has above, actually making the claim more questionable (and saying he is quoting her): “I worked for Joni Ernst the Candidate and she told me she was commander of convoys taking material from Kuwait docks to Baghdad”
Someone talk to be about “supply routes” and “Trailer-Transfer Points”…
In 2003, I was a squad leader in the 1168 TC. Then-CPT Ernst was my CO. In late May, we had one Humvee, one wrecker, and three 1088s with trailers in Kuwait. The rest were still en route from the States. We managed to get three conexes to haul to Bagdad, and were tacked onto the back of a convoy of 95 other vehicles. Our trucks were all driven by the six squad leaders of the company. I’m not sure the front of the convoy even knew we were there. We left Arifjan, and refueled at the border (Navistar?) Sorry, my memory of place names it a bit shoddy. We then proceeded up to remain overnite in a walled town, whose name I don’t remember. We refueled at a stop with a very fine sand, so light that there was a permanent haze in the air, and your boots sank in to the ankles walking through it. Upon our arrival in Bagdad, we off-loaded our conexes, and found a place to park for the night. We slept on our trailers, except for the CPT, and her driver, who slept in the Humvee. We went to sleep to the sound of a .50 in the distance. I figured if anything got close, we would hear more light weapons. The third day, we made the return trip with just our five vehicles. We encountered one check point, where they warned us of a reported sniper ahead. No contact, but we were puckered.
We encountered no action, but we were keenly aware that our trucks were unarmored, and the Ma’am’s Humvee had the soft doors and roof. I returned home shortly thereafter due to my parents declining health, but that was my trip with the Senator.
Ok, I helped run the TTP at Navistar (aka “Spearpoint”) for close to ten months during that time (until the end of March in 2004, of course having been converted to a contractor operation before we left). Obviously there were commands (or portions thereof) that took their own vehicles all the way in (early on, we moved into southern Iraq, then back out). I’m commenting because I’m hearing MSRs being phrased like a civilian “long-haul trucker” concept, which is patently false.
Big Army sets up Trailer Transfer Points on supply routes, full trailers move to the front, empty trailers move to the rear. Trucking companies leave the TTP where they stay hauling one forward, picking up an empty at the next TTP and hauling it back. Without the ever-present variables, there is about 90 miles between TTPs along the supply route, under optimal conditions two trips per day as part of a convoy.
The trucking companies that hauled trailers into Iraq on a regular basis were in our camp (Navistar was a mile south of the border and the town of Safwan, Iraq): Part of the South Dakota National Guard and an Army Reserve unit from Ohio. The operation was called “Sustainer-Push”, and we were there for the entire time it ran.
I remember a single instance of them having an IED go off (very minor damage to the 915 tractor), and an instance of them receiving small-arms fire (rolling through it, no casualties). The local population for that far south in Iraq was Shiite, Saddam would cut off their water supply from the canals to controls them. The largest amount of shots I heard was celebrating his sons being killed, when he was only captured they were far more reserved.
Thank You for your input (and that of Sergeant Major (Green Berets) Don Pugsley above, I also wanted to detail what I know…
My time frame was third week of May 2003. Early enough that many of the later rules weren’t yet in place. That was my only trip, as I returned home in June due to both parents failing health. (Both were gone within the year.) Ernst may have made other trips after that, I don’t know. Cedar sounds right, I believe we ON at Talill. Made the trip up in two, and rolled empty trailers on the return in one day.
Those kids in Safwan were freaky. One teen laid down in the road after the truck ahead of me, and my co-driver almost stopped. I yelled to get him rolling again, and we had a half dozen kids jumping off our trailer. Pulled a few lights loose. Ah, memories.
And yes, Gail Ernst, the Senator’s husband, is a retired SGM, and was a Ranger.
The kids in Safwan would mimic back what you yelled at then, there was quite a bit of outreach from our camp at Navistar to try and get them off the streets. I want to thank you for your first-hand details of that initial trip, there seems to be other soldiers that were involved in her campaign or in the Iowa Guard that represent her as going into Iraq multiple times as part of the “initial push”, and say that the convoys she commanded rolled throung several “firefights”. Your account seems to based much more in facts.
Further commentary is that the “fine sand” where you refueled was probably Camp Cedar/Cedar II (close to the Tallil airbase), we stayed there a month. It seemed to have been chosen because the locals weren’t close-by (why would they want to live in a fucking huge sandpit?), even then our worry about them was minimal. Diesel fuel was poured out on the “roads” in some areas, to keep trucks from getting stuck.
Do you remember when you went though? The convoy size and composition you mention sounds familiar. Of course we also had our first month in Arifjan (as seemingly everyone did, with a year, as most everyone, “in-country”).
No one else has pointed it out so far, Joni Ernst is married to a former Ranger…
Had one trans unit (Oklahoma NG IIRC) run from Kuwait to Mosul to bring our worn out heavy construction equipment back down to the ports to ship back to the US. We escorted them down to Anaconda – IED hit on them in that leg. Female OIC, and they had some big balls to drive 916s, HETs and commercial with dozers, loaders and excavators on flatbeds all the way through the country. Couldn’t possibly have a bigger bullseye on you unless you hauled a tanker. I think a Trans company commander heading into Iraq is perfectly plausible.
“I think a Trans company commander heading into Iraq is perfectly plausible.”
Sure it’s plausible, but it wasn’t all that common (for the pure “beans and bullets” supply chain). I wasn’t in the control structure, but nothing rolled into Iraq from Kuwait without their approval. We heard above it may have been just one run in following a larger convoy for Captain Ernst.
I’m also not trying to minimize the danger, but incidents within that southern Iraq region were also uncommon. We had a policy to look like you were just bristling with weapons, and you didn’t have problems. Actually avoiding the kids in Safwan was more problematic.
After Saddam was captured, we only had to carry a single weapon with ammo on the “fun runs” back into Kuwait. There was one port incident I barely remember. On a large camp like Arifjan you had rare contact with TCNs.
“Sustainer-Push” was a mess. Since any awards would be based on numbers later, trailers on average rolled more empty than full. Our troops complained they were just hauling junk time and time again (forward units had first dibs, and then it cycled back to us as decreasing priority). If no one claimed the variety of stuff, it went through again until it was.
Why am I having to remind other military people about Army inefficiency, but still not also being a “long-haul trucking” operation?
I guess it depends on the time frame and the landowner of that AO. we were at Taji 06-07. Our CO only left the FOB couple of times, was more or less a standing order from the brigade,
Convoy commanders and GUn Truck commaders were E7s or E6s, sometimes, competent 01s and 02s.
At this point they hand changed it up so that convoys consisted of about 20 to 25 mission trucks and 6 of us guntrucks, interpsersed within the convoy, Gun 1 in out inf front by 500 meters,gun 2 as lead, gun 6 as the rear and a gun truck for every 5 mission trucks. Either way, SHe was responsible for mission Trucks and gun trucks rolling up and down the MSRs as great big huge fucking targets. So, IMHO, yes, she was in a combat theater, she was in command of a unit that went outside the ECP, she is a combat vet.
Someone should shit in Ariana Huffington’s mouth.
The operation through Navistar went over to contractors probably even before 2004 came along. Less efficient (they started to be hit), and much more money involved (Haliburton). We wanted to reassign our Atlas forklift to someone else, the last three months were just moving jersey barriers and offloading pallets of bottled water.
Our company (2220th Trans. AZNG) was based at Tallil airbase as an independent Corps Asset from April 2003 to March 2004. We ran 2 to 6 day long convoys from Arifjan to Anaconda, and all points inbetween, for the majority of our deployment, primarily in support of Central Command and the Polish, and we rarely dropped our trailers, we usually only dropped our loads.
That fine ‘sand’ at Cedar was actually pulverized silt, and it WAS horrible, lol. I have lots of great pictures from the whole An Nasiriyah area, armpit of the world.
I wonder if HufPo would be happier if she “conflated” her service with , say, Audie Murphy’s?
Fuck Huff “a dick” Post. It’s a liberal rag with no substance. How many of the idiots that work at that piece of shit even signed on the dotted line, let alone served in a forward area. Bunch of beta male Peter pumpers. By the way, I don’t recall them going after Blumenthal, Kerry or another Iowa Senator TomASS Harkin.
I do not know if there is such an official designation as “Combat Veteran”, so I figure if one serves in a “combat zone” and is armed and prepared to engage the enemies of the United States in close combat it could be safe to assume that person is a combat veteran. I theink it speaks volumes of a leaders abilities when that leader’s unit completes a mission in a combat zone with no casualties. She was there, she completed her mission in a combat zone, she is a combat vet in my opinion. As far as being engaged with the enemy, does detainee ops count? Spending one’s day in a cage unarmed with the enemy (even though they are crying about the AC not working, or the food sucking) carries the risk of being killed or injured almost as much as being out looking for them. I never counted mortar attacks as CAB worthy, but some did and got the award. Are they considered as more Combat Vet than those of us that did not want the award due to some gay asshole lobbing mortars indiscriminatly in our direction? Who determines a combat veterans eligibility to call themselves that? I do not call mysef a combat vet, but I weld and do not call myself a welder either.
Fuck HuffPo. With a pineapple. Fronds first. You KNOW they’ll like it.
From my viewpoint, a combat cameraman(woman) would be a combat vet, even if he or she never got fired upon or shot back.
Would that make my niece, a surgical nurse in a CASH in Baghdad a combat vet?
But then, I was a POG, so what do I know?
If the media insists on looking at women vets as victims, then I’d say we’ll never move out of the Stone Age. It’s about time someone told the media and its whiny twits to go pound sand.
As a surgical nurse is a CASH in country?
Absolutely.
Yes.
Keyboard.
“in a CASH”.
During the course of my middle east adventures I frequented a few CASHs. I was even at the one in Baghdad (Ibn Sina Hospital) while the 28th CASH was there. They are the ones who have caused me to have a newfound respect for the Medical troops in our military. They lost people to mortar attacks, and were mortared every day. Your niece is awesome, give her my thanks please. She is definitely a combat vet, but she knows that.
No semantics. She is proud of her service and rightfully should be. The folks in Iowa elected a good person to represent them.
However, if she was not in combat she is not a “combat vet” and should stop saying that. She is a Vet of Iraq and Kuwait and should be damn proud to have served and done a good job at it.
“served in a combat zone so legally is a combat vet” is ridiculous as many on here have pointed out many times. Calling yourself that gives the impression, knowingly, that you are a door kicker or was under fire or frontline. She was not. It does not diminish her service but it does diminish those grunts that ran patrols no matter if it is her fault or not.
How does everyone feel about John Fucking Kerry running around calling himself a combat vet?
if he was there and under fire, seems to me he earns it. Whether he earned all his medals fairly or not, I am not able to judge – although I did see an article that alleges he still has a piece of shrapnel in his thigh? That would certainly make a legitimate basis for a Purple Heart.
Seems to me it is more important that someone goes to the war zone and serves rather than whether their unit took fire. Think I read once that 90% of the folks who went to Vietnam never fired a shot in anger? You gonna tell them they are not “real” vets? Or higher-ranking officers who send out the door-kickers – because they direct battalions and divisions they are not either?
You missed my point and did not read my post accurately. Try again.
“served in a combat zone so legally is a combat vet” is ridiculous .
No….., either one meets the standard that was established by Congress (the legal standard) to be considered to have performed combat service and be eligible for benefits or you don’t. She met the standard.
She didn’t sell herself as someone who was in hand to hand combat with the enemy. She was very forthright about what she commanded and what types of missions they ran.
There were folks that tried to drum up this story back during her campaign. It didn’t work then and won’t work now.
Uh, hey dumbass. I never doubted her word on what she did. Jackasses at HuffPo are there for a reason, no sane outfit would hirer them.
She doesn’t need to prove to anyone what she did or did not do or where she was. Her record speaks for itself as well as the men and women that served under her. My point is that if she was not engaged in combat then she is not a “combat vet” in my view. I don’t really care what the legal definition is. That is a smarmy cop-out used by politicians for about everything since Bill’s infamous “that depends on what the definition of is is” and AlGore claiming there is “no controlling legal authority”. I don’t need lawyer speak. If you saw combat you are a combat vet. If you served in a combat zone then you are a vet of that war or action and should be proud of your service either way. Period
JonP, no reason to get personnal; You or I might not agree with the legal definition enacted by Congress, but it is where it is.
I’m sure that the troops of WWII who were on the front lines had similar feeling for remfs who spent the war in England and received the same benefits (You know troops stationed in Alaska and Hawaii qualified for combat patches, for instance?)
I won’t denigrate the 90% of service members who deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan who did’t earn at CIB/CAB/CMB/CAR (or what ever the USAF equivalent is) by saying that they aren’t “combat veterans”.
I will admit to some personal bias for those that have a combat award, over those who just have a SSI-FWS, over those who have nothing. So, perhaps that just makes me a biased dumbass.
If I ran for office would I have characterized/pakaged my service that way, I honestly don’t know.
Actually, I don’t have a problem with that. He was. Briefly, and with marginal competence.
It’s the stuff he pulled not involving combat (chasing medals, apparently engineering himself an early trip home, lying about “Christmas in Cambodia”, backstabbing the troops after he came back via supporting the enemy) that makes me detest that . . . individual.
I respectfully abstain from any comments related to this ongoing, fluid and dynamic discussion.
For a multitude of non-gender related issues.
Its a tough call, but there are plenty of combat veterans out there that never fired a shot.
I wouldn’t say “many” are saying it sounds ridiculous. But, she was in Iraq and was in the middle east in 03-04, which was when we got into Iraq and “liberated” that country (March ’03).
So what exactly is your qualifying requirement for being a “combat” veteran? Does that mean anyone without a CIB is just a veteran who served in Iraq or Afghanistan? Do they have to have taken direct fire from a 12 year old with an AK? Or maybe they have to kill a Tali with their barehands and wear that guy’s ear on a cord around their neck? Or do they have to have been in Pesch, Wardak, Fallujah, etc?
Granted, if someone deployed to Manas or Kuwait and talked about how hard “the suck” was, I might wait for them to say they were joking. (Or laugh because they actually used the term “the suck”.)
At the end of the day, transportation units were on the roads, where most IEDs were planted and were the heaviest attacked infrastructure in Iraq.
Just like any MOS or job, there were those who had a cushy situation, even in Iraq or Afghanistan. Plus, there were locations tougher than others.
And John Kerry’s a douchknuckle because of his actions, most especially after leaving Viet Nam. Granted, if he “threw” his medals over the White House fence, should he still be considered a combat veteran?
“How does everyone feel about John Fucking Kerry running around calling himself a combat vet?”
Is there any reason he should not call himself one? Perhaps it’s more than a bit disingenuous for him to throw it out there as often as he does. He certainly manages to point it out at times and in ways which don’t seem particularly appropriate.
Guess I’m kind of wondering why anyone should care how we “feel” about that. I don’t feel anything about someone making a legitimate claim. I DO care about his assorted lies and dishonorable behavior and his continued failure to sign an SF 180. Among other despicable things he has done.
Of all the objectionable things he has said and done over the years, calling himself a combat vet is the least of his problems.
John Fucking Douchebag was a combat vet. What he wasn’t was the hero he claimed to be.
Fu– the Huffing-ton post and those giving her a hard time. We couldn’t fight and win without the total force.
Combat vet. Next story.
I think the puffinton post saw how Brian Williams was crucified for lying about his whirlybird ride, and thought ah ha. Let’s apply this standard to Sen. Ernst. Except the senator didn’t lie like b Williams. No smoke and fire here! So puff pros is trying to stir up some shit to see if it sticks. Not gonna happen. Go Sen Ernst, and she’s easy on the eyes!!! Unlike billary Clinton.
Well she isn’t a combat vet. End of story.
However that doesn’t mean some limp dicks should be attacking her on it to score political points.
Both are in the wrong here.
And your definition of a “combat vet”?
Only those with a PH, CIB, CAR, CMB, CAB, or valor award?
There were approximately 110k CIB/CAB/CMBs awarded for over 1.25 million soldiers who served in Iraq, are those 90% not combat vets?
By this same definition, practically no one in the Air Force or Navy would be considered a “combat vet” in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Flew over Afghanistan and dropped bombs? welllllll, you were safe in your plane above the zone, you didn’t directly engage them. You fired missiles from your ship off the coast? wellllll, that’s not really “combat” persay? you aren’t a combat veteran. you didn’t stand in front of that bad guy and target for your gun to fire on him.
I’ll just leave this right here………………….. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153754693981393&id=407983411392&comment_id=10153755154406393&ref=m_notif¬if_t=like&actorid=100003873687898 double up on your blood pressure meds prior to clicking that link
Appears you have found the nest that liberals, socialist, and communist hang. Pathetic reading that blog, makes your stomach turn.
And I’m sure somewhere on that same page there’s a whole slew of “In Defense of Democrat/Liberal X…” commentary as well.
If she was a Democrat, they’d be lifting her up as an example and have her under Hillary’s desk non-stop to keep that fake frozen smile going.
Clue: 1- Her husband is a Ranger. Seriously doubt he would ever let her get away with making up bullshit stories. 2- I happen to have run across former personel from her company and know they have a woody from being punished for violating the various rules and reg’s they violated under her command. 3- Those same personel are most likely the ones pushing this bullshit through HuffPo. 4- If Congress says, then it is so.
The Vietnam War is the first war that people have made the distinction of being a Vietnam Vet or a Vietnam Era Vet.
If you served during WWII, WWI, Korea, The Civil War or any of the wars this country has been involved in they were known as Veterans of ____ War. Fill in the blank.
To me this appears to be quite petty to have an argument about. I served during Vietnam, but in Alaska, I call myself a Vietnam War Veteran that instead of Vietnam.
This is playing into the anti war playbooks of the left winger stank ass hippies to get all of us to argue about this or that detail all while they shove all kinds of other things under the radar while it is filled with chaff.
To all you Veteran’s that served in combat I thank you and respect you, but to denigrate another soldier that by sheer luck alone didn’t get shot at or be involved in a mine or sniper incident.
To me I consider her lucky, plain ass lucky, she signed the same contract you and I did that put her life on the line for the rest of us and this bull shit arguing only plays into their hands.
She was in country in a war zone and generally on the lines of duty that put her in harm’s way and therefore is a combat Veteran, peri-fuking-od.
Geez guys, 66 comments here and some people are no doubt ready to claw someone’s eyes out for disagreeing with them…
It’s as plain as the nose on your face, for crying out loud. knock it the fuck off and let her have her designation so we can get back to the real shit this fuckwad administration is throwing at us like so much shit on a shingle…
Divide and conquer, it goes back through history like that…
I understand that I pissed a bunch of people off by saying this, but step back and look at the big picture…
Sheesh…
Exactly. We’re turning on our own here because of some bullshit article written by a bullshit organization. It’s not her fault she didn’t come back full of bullet holes. She did her job – deployed to a hostile environment, completed her assigned missions, and brought all of her troops home in one piece. She didn’t come back and embelish her record.
She’s a Veteran – one of us. Let’s quit eating our young and find someone worthy of talking shit about.
Amen brother!
I did my time in A-stan, did my fair share of time outside the wire on Convoy Security Missions. Over 150 missions and no contact, for a while I felt like a Pogue for not earning my CIB, but then I remembered one of ” Murphy’s Laws of Combat” which says “Decorations and Medals are nice, but bringing yourself and those you deploy with back unscathed is as important as getting the job done right.”, thus I don’t mind not having a CIB, to hell with a “Free-I.B.”
You didn’t piss me off. I served during Vietnam, in a shore duty position. So who cares, one way or the other? I don’t. I put my time in and that is all I care about.
I seriously doubt you simply “put your time in”, Ex-PH2.
I don’t think you’re capable of going minimal on duty.
I am a Vietnam vet US ARMY LZ OASIS 68 /69
That lady is as much as a combat vet as I am
She’s a Middle East War Veteran, something only a small fraction of the US population can claim!
This really ticks me off. I’m an Air Force transporter who served under an Army Trans battalion in Iraq. We did gun truck escort duty for military and civilian convoys to over 20 FOBs all over Iraq. We also went back did line haul duty. While I never had to engage the enemy, nobody can say I’m not a combat veteran, nor can they say my battalion commander wasn’t a combat veteran. Many Trans troops gave their lives during that time on the road, both Army and Air Force. Shameful
Ssssshhhh! Keep it down. I’m trying to polish my sta-brite CIB. 😉
Seriously… Shes good to go.
Netted out:
I would follow the Senator in to battle if asked.
I will not follow a stank ass hippie who writes for HUFFPO in to a Starbucks for a latte.
I’d rather follow an Iraqi or Kuchi into a Starbucks. They’d smell better than one of those Huff-Hippies.
Q: What’s a major difference between a hippie and a dog turd?
A: The dog turd quits stinking after a few days!! 😀
I guess I’ll put my two cents in! If she was outside the wire, she’s a combat vet.
I’ve always maintained that during my time. If you were outside the wire as a 11B, you deserved a CIB.
She was outside the wire, she’s a combat vet in my opinion.
lol what?
“outside the war” wasn’t d-day and inside the wire wasn’t vacation.
We have combat awards for this shit. It’s really that simple. Does she have any? No? Case closed.
That doesn’t negate her service, but just like Joe CIA Black Ops “combat vet” she’s playing a word game.
Only problem with your logic is that the CAB didn’t come out until 2005…
So if you’re a fobbit and get injured or killed by indirect fire…you’re not a combat vet.
Good to know. Thanks.
I find your thinking extremely disappointing and immature. People standing in line at the BX/PX at Ft Hood are getting Purple Hearts; are they combat vets? My hootch partner when I was in Somalia as a Marine got hit with shrapnel in the ass two days in country while he was laying in the rack and was medevaced out; combat vet to you? Unlike today the CAR for instance used to be hard to get and you didnt get it for humanitarian Ops (i.e., Somalia) and though they later came out and approved it retroactively few Marines went back and applied for it. As for the CIB and Bronze Star; again, its highly circumstantial. When I joined the Guard after 9/11 I ended up as 1SG of an Infantry Company doing route clearance in the exact same AO as LTC Ernst. We first started through Navistar on MSR Tampa to a few clicks south of FOB Cedar and later through Khabari Crossing along the entire length of MSR Aspen. A unit of the California Guard we shared that AO with got whacked on a regular basis while we took zero serious casualties and as a Company received a Department of the Army Commendation (BN got nothing). I credit that to our outstanding Soldiers who followed their TTPs and frankly to a lot of luck. None of my Soldiers got CIBs despite having a few situations that would have qualified them earlier but the rules changed to require that you had to actively engage the enemy to get one. In our case, a couple incidents in Safwan (anyone remember the Jiffy Lube!) and some close IED encounters didnt allow us to engage the enemy. The company we replaced with the exact same result and history had everyone get CIBs or CABs except a couple of clerks.Were those Soldiers combat vets and my Soldiers not? You know who got Bronze Stars in our BN? The BC, CSM and OPsO who left Kuwait just a couple of times because at that time the approving authority decided MSMs were the appropriate award for meritorious… Read more »
I need to clarify my remarks, they are directed at FatCircles0311’s post not 3/17 Air Cav
Very well said. I think that’s the key point in this all that’s been mentioned by smarter men than I.
Stop attacking each other because the hipster douches and Huff-Hippies are getting off on us arguing about this one.
Someone is always more “combat” than someone else. There’s no need for the “my combat is bigger than your combat, which means your combat really isn’t combat” bloviating.
FatCircles, by your definition I am barely a combat vet. We helo crews never engaged the emeny at close range. Our pilots never got got to shoot(we weren’t Hueys) back. The worst flight mission was convoy exsort from Chu Lia to Da Nang. Some poor Marines would be blown up by a mine and we have E-Vac the burnt and blown up Marines to Delta Med or a hospital ship. Joe
F**k those speaking who have NO knowledge of what the military ACTUALLY does in peace or war time.
If she ain’t talkin’ sh*t [like,’there I wuz’ ], good for her. REAL soldiers don’t brag/talk shit when it matters. They stay quiet and think to themselves about what they have experienced. They talk sh*t to get laid.
Dear Huffpo,
FY and FY, again. I am sick to death of you people thinking you are the end-all. As per the usual, you leave out anything that does not fit your narrative…er, your unicorn reality. That’s nearly the same bullshit Mike Yon pulled while he denigrated milbloggers around here. Kiss. Off.
I look at it this way:
I don’t call myself a combat vet. However, I’ve been in places where the bad guys were a LOT closer than you might guess. Got the awards to go along with it too. Had it been known we were there, sure as shit we would’ve been shot at.
If it’s good enough for the VFW, I can deal. And if the Senator was in Iraq putting her butt on the line, good enough for me too.
[…] Forget it, Jake. It’s HuffPo. Meanwhile, here’s a less delicate take than Ashe’s: […]
What I find to be highly ironic is that libs are willing to believe (or at least forgirve) Brian Williams, but not Joni Ernst.
Now that you have been played by people that are insignificant, please leave MY Senator alone, as she has real work to do and should be distracted by BULLSHIT!!
Thank You, and I mean that from the Heart(land)
Yeah, I’m actually going to have to agree with JonP above.
Politics ain’t beanball. It’s bloodsport, and if you’re going to run for office and in campaign speeches say “I’m a combat vet” you better be ready to back that up. Whether you “legally” meet the definition of a “combat vet” or not, if you’re using it in a speech you have to expect to be called on it because that’s how politics works.
I’m sure she’s a fine senator and I’m sure she was a fine officer and leader. Her service under difficult and dangerous conditions is admirable. But her choice to refer to herself as a “combat vet” when she apparently never actually engaged in or saw any “combat” was not a smart one.
Let’s say, for example, that I went to law school, passed the bar exam, and was then hired by the DA’s office. As soon as I started working there, they put me on a special project, which I worked on for a year, then at the end of that year, I resigned to take a job in the private sector.
Years later, I’m running for mayor and based on the job I described above, I call myself a “former prosecutor.”
Don’t you think people are going to ask me “OK, if you’re a former prosecutor, how many people did you prosecute? How many cases did you take to trial? How many people did you put in prison?”
Ernst could have called herself a veteran, a war veteran, an OIF veteran, but she chose to use the term “combat veteran.”
Kind of makes me think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket when Animal Mother (Firefly’s own Jayne Cobb, Adam Baldwin) asks Joker (Matthew Modine) what he is, and Joker answers “I’m a combat correspondent.” Animal Mother then asks “You ever see any combat?” and Joker replies “I saw some on TV.”
If someone else was calling Ernst’s service into question, I’d understand the outrage but in this case, Ernst opened this can of worms herself.
Huh?
No.
The difference is I am a veteran. My only overseas time is Korea and I served none in a combat zone. I served in a peace time army.
She is a combat vet. She is not claiming awards for being under fire.
The Military makes those distinctions not anyone else. Define it however you want doesn’t change the reality of it.
TTPS for when you engage in ambush in an M-1151 are to remain inside the armored vehicle and let your turret gunner engage the target while the driver moves out of the kill zone. So since only the turret gunner engaged the enemy is he the only one who is a combat vet?
Driving down an MSR and you get hit by an IED; is that combat even though your not engaging anyone? What if your the second or third vehicle back and don’t get hit…are you still a combat vet or just a bystander?
A rocket attack on your FOB results in you getting shrapnel and a Purple Heart and CAB while your behind your desk typing up NCOERs; combat vet?
You are an 11B going on patrols outside the wire for 18 months but are never directly engaged; combat vet or no?
Aircrew flying in and out of BIAP which occasionally takes fire; if they get a mortar lobbed somewhere in the vicinity during their hour or so refueling or turn around is that combat?
Stand in line at the BX/PX at Ft Hood and you get a Purple Heart; Combat? How about the Soldiers killed and wounded at the Pentagon while sitting at their desks?
What is “seeing combat” in a war where there are few identifiable enemies to “see”, no front lines or rear areas; and even the President wont clarify what constitutes the enemy?
I really don’t understand your thinking and I seriously doubt anyone who has traveled MSR Tampa from NAVISTAR to Baghdad in a soft skinned HUMWV would agree with you that she wasn’t a combat vet.
There’s a lot of “missing the point” here.
The issue is not “does X qualify as a ‘combat veteran’.”
The issue IS “If X calls himself/herself a ‘combat veteran’ for the express purpose of advancing his/her political career, are we not then allowed to inquire as to what kind of “combat” they engaged in? And if not, why not?
Why do I get the distinct impression that if Ernst was a democrat or perceived as anti-war, the same posters on here who are defending her would be dumping on her as a “POG” and a “Fobbit?”
Is the claim now that POGs and fobbits are not combat vets as well?
For those jumping on Ernst, have you researched what she actually said or are you just reading the Huffpo article? Let’s bring forth some actual Ernst quotes and list what the issues are with them.
From what I’ve been able to understand, it’s actually a case of using the correct term as described by the US military in that a ‘combat vet’ is someone who served in a AO designated as a ‘combat zone’.
I don’t see any game being played by the senator in this.
What I do see, or at least seem to see, are some folk using personal versions of what a ‘combat vet’ is or should be and creating confusion where there should be none.
I don’t give a shit if she was Uncle Joe Stalin’s granddaughter. 2 questions for you – were you in the Army and did you deploy during OIF I-III?
Damned keyboard – questions directed to Martinjmpr
Perhaps some of the old timers do not understand “Assymetrical Warfare (Battlefield)” There were no real front lines in Iraq, and for a large part of the time we were there, the IED was their weapon of choice. I know a trooper that was in three vehicles that were hit. We drove up and down route Irish with our DUKES on, subsequently never getting hit by an IED. During the maintenance check of the system, the Field Service Rep said it had been triggered multiple times. That means it interfered with radio signals, probably just regular cell phone calls…or were they?
The only guy who seemed to have a problem it was a professor in Iowa who brought it up during the campaign and then was contacted by the Huffpost.
If I was running for office as OEF/OIF vet who had direct combat with the enemy I’d actually use language that is much more specific than “Combat Veteran”, (perhaps personnally commander troops under fire on multiple occasions) so it kind of cuts both ways.
Huffpost didn’t seem to have a problem with the guy who was running for State Senator in my district. His claim to combat service was protecting the eastern Indian Ocean from Somali pirates as a very junior officer on a cruiser.
No one has mentioned Tim Walz who ran for Congress by proclaiming that he was an Iraq War veteran even though he’d never got closer to Iraq than Vicenza, Italy, in a support role for the Iraq War.
I think characterizing herself as an OIF/Iraq vet would have been opening her up for the same type of abuse from the likes of the Huffpost given that she didn’t meet the qualifications for the Iraq CAmpaign Medal.
She does not have a ICM?
Here is a picture in uniform, not sure of the date, but likely recent. Maybe someone with better eyesight and knowledge can make them out. I see what looks like MSM, ARCOM, NDSM, AAM…others?
http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/ernst_00.jpg
A few points to consider:
A. The ICM is awarded for either 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days in country in support of OIF.
B. She served several years before it was even created, so its highly unlikely she had a reason to count the days at that point.
C. If the award had existed, her unit was re-tasked to local security in Kuwait, so extra day trips into Iraq to qualify would have been suspect and opened her up to the same type scrutiny she just received.
I see hash marks denoting 12 months in a combat zone.
To some folks that doesn’t matter, nbcguy54. Oh, well.
Must get back to “Twelve O’clock High,” my favorite war movie. Those guys probably weren’t combat veterans, as some folks define it. Bud Day either.
Sad.
She has an ICM, but you can request to change the GWOTEM to an ICM if you so desire. Up to early 2005, you were awarded the GWOTEM. I know, I have both of them.
Actually, she is wearing the GWOTEM. She has the option to convert to the ICM.
Only if she meets the I criteria.
Given that her HQ was in Kuwait and her unit was in Kuwait she would likely fall under the 60 day requirement.
She has been in politics for a long time so likely wouldn’t push for it without documented evidence that would not be called into question.
Good call on the overseas stripes. I would wonder where her other five months were served?
Kuwait qualified as in theater. You could do 12 months in Arifjan and get the two stripes.
Check her fruit salad for a GWOT-E. When we were there, that was the ribbon earned. Of course, it was also earned by those who spent the entire year in Kuwait. Her time-in-zone hash marks are correct. I was there to welcome them back after over a year.
Just so happens I’m reading a WWII novel, Liberation Road, by David L.Robbins, which is based on the exploits of the Red Ball Express, the huge truck transport resupply chain that was set up to feed beans and bullets to the rapidly advancing allied armies in Europe in the fall of 1944.
Those nearly continuous lines of trucks extending out from the Normandy Beaches and Cherbourg were frequent targets of strafing Luftwaffe fighters. The threat from the enemy there was basically from the air whereas in Joni’s war it came from beneath the ground in the form of IED’s.
Since 75% of the Red Ball drivers were black, it would be interesting to see how the politically-correct Huffpo would deal with their combat status. Does anyone here seriously think they would deny that those thousands of black truck drivers were not combat veterans?
Of course they wouldn’t.
C’mon HuffPo is color blind. They’d just tell all those guys they didn’t serve any combat time unless the Germans were actually firing on their particular truck….apparently that’s the standard.
Doesn’t matter if the road you’re on today had people killed on it the day before, if the day you’re on it is safe you’re no combat vet….it’s good we have the HuffPo to clarify that for everyone because apparently even the veteran community has no fucking idea what it is because you can see the variety of explanations why she is or isn’t right here in this very thread and everybody is pretty righteous over their version of the definition.
Maybe shit like this is why the rest of the country thinks we’re all a little fucking crazy.
We can’t even agree among ourselves what the fuck we’re talking about while there’s a standing definition of the topic of discussion in the Army regulations.
That’s pretty awesome when you think about it, we have a military definition that isn’t good enough for us so we are all pissing at each other to find out who has a bigger dick and which explanation is the right one…
Good to know if I had served in a combat patrol mission role in a designated combat zone and not been shot at a bunch of guys here would consider me just another guy hiking through the woods with some spare food and unnecessary weapons.
Nothing lends credence to a cause like a giant pissing match between the participants all of whom were theoretically once on the same side.