Back to Iraq

| November 3, 2013

I know a lot of you guys left something in Iraq and you need to go back to get it. Well, our Nobel Prize winning President is going to give you that opportunity. After meeting with Iraqi president Maliki on Friday, Obama pledged US military support for the Iraqi government, according to the Stars & Stripes;

Administration officials say that while they are not ready to send soldiers to Iraq, they will push for Congress to give Iraq the Apache helicopters, missiles and other equipment it is seeking, and will step up intelligence support so that they can help find and destroy the al-Qaida bases.

Yeah, well, when you send equipment, you have to send people to train the Iraqi pilots, artillerymen, whatever. If we send trainers, we have to send people to protect them.

From the LA Times;

The new U.S. plan represents a remarkable shift for Obama, whose administration trumpeted the 2011 withdrawal of the last U.S. troops from Iraq as a major achievement and has since shifted its attention to other regional challenges, such as Syria, Egypt and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Following a White House meeting with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, Obama said he shared Maliki’s fears about militants’ growing foothold in Iraq’s western region and would join the Iraqi leader’s effort to crack down. Administration officials said this would include growing intelligence support and new weaponry.

There wouldn’t be a need for a “crack down” if these two had done their jobs years ago. I’m pretty sure that I predicted we’d be back in Iraq when everyone else was celebrating the last troops to withdraw – just like I predicted in 1991 that we’d be back. There’s only one path to peace in that region and it’s called “total victory”, but the US seems unable to form those words on our collective lips.

Category: Terror War

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Ex-PH2

Can I quote Yogi Berra?

Deja vu all over again.

Ne Desit Virtus

3rd times a charm. They had better start hammering out that SOFA time now

Scubasteve

#1, I’ll quote SGT Murtaugh from Lethal Weapon. “I’m getting too old for this sh1t!”

Scubasteve

On another note, I guess this means the drawdown and tattoo checks are done. We wouldn’t overextend a hollow Army, would we? /sarc/

Ex-PH2

@3 Scubasteve, I’ll drink to that!

Lawrence todd

The failure of Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton to reach a status of forces agreement basically lost a war that had already been won. I think this is a first for a sitting President and Secretary of State. It is like we have Sqt Schutlz in the White House. Obama says “I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing!” and even adds I do nothing.

H1

@6.
Concur.

PigmyPuncher

For F’s sake, every time I think this administration can’t possibly screw things up any more then they currently are….

John R

@6: Are you Lawrence Todd from ProTec Security?

Lawrence Todd

Unfortunately I am just an old retired guy. I was not military but was a DOD civilian employee during the Vietnam Era and have tremendous respect for our military whose officers and enlisted men I worked with back then.

AtDrum

Ha! Retirement just can’t come fast enough… Although granted it is now in single digits in months left in the army. And most of that time is going to be finishing off this deployment!

Ex-PH2

@11 – AtDrum, you have all my sympathy.

Just focus on doing your job, right up to the end, instead of how annoying this untrustworthy clown has become.

This is NOT going to work out well.

A Proud Infidel

How are our Personnel going to be able to cope with being deployed while B. Hussein 0bama & Co. are trying to rape and pillage the US Military budget?

Twist

@11; I decided to start my retirement packet tomorrow. I may have lost my ID tags around FOB Warhorse, but I have no desire to go looking for them.

Ex-PH2

@14 Twist, stay cool.

Anyone who is still active while this idiocy is going on gets 110% of my support and I will gladly listen to any bitching and moaning any of you have stored up.

The hygienist at my dentist’s office told me her nephew was deployed to Afghanistan a few weeks ago to clear things out. I do not consider this ‘back to Iraq’ news to be a good thing at all.

lazarus long

holy crap, that’s like giving an Ipad to a caveman.
literally.

Smitty

@twist, only things i left in iraq was blood, sweat, and tears. i dont feel like leaving any more now, not for this administration. for several years all i wanted was to back in the army where things made sense (or at least were predictably senseless), now im just glad im out. i mourn for those who are still in now, im glad i didnt have to suffer through todays bull shit. 11 years doesnt seem like that long a time, but damn how things have changed since i first signed on the dotted line

Twist

@17: I left a few things there that are more important than some tags. Look back at last November 19th thread.

William

So we leave Iraq so Obama can be elected, then go back to a bigger mess and nightmare than before.

Politics win.

UpNorth

They’re going to send Iraq Apache helicopters? I wonder, will they put a nice, big red bow on the one that ends up in Tehran? Will it include Hellfire missiles, or will those be shipped in a separate container?

Ex-PH2

I thought there was a funding cut underway, along with cuts in personnel and purchases of equipment and supplies. Did I miss something? Was there some hidden phrase such as ‘unless there’s a reason to keep things as they were’ in those announcements?

I will say it again: I am SO GLAD I did not vote for that clown. We may not be in deep shit right now, but we may be there soon.

USMCE8Ret

@2 – …and the ROE.

Thunderstixx

This man is going to screw around and get a ton pf people killed. Mark my words friends and Veteran’s. Tons of people killed. His ROE’s in Afghanistan already have killed more than Bush ever did.
This is terrible and I feel for all those in the military now. I really do.
I lived through Jimmy Carter, he was a piker compared to this idiot…

Jacobite

The most important thing I left in Iraq was my naiveté.

I don’t want it back.

Ex-PH2

@23-Thunderstixx, you don’t know the half of it.

NHSparky

No way in hell he even THINKS of blaming Bush on this one.

vietnam war protestor

When you find yourself in a hole quit digging! No american soilders lives were lost in syria. Iraq arabic for vietnam!

Ex-PH2

vwp, you have to be the stupidest ass on the planet.

Iraqis speak Farsi, NOT Arabic. Iraq is part of what used to be Persia until the end of the 19th century.

So until you learn how to read and develop a brain, SHUT THE F@CK UP.

Roger in Republic

If I had left one of my balls in Iraq I would leave it there. There is not one good reason to bail these ass holes out of a situation of their own making. We were unceremoniously evicted from that shithole and now they want us to help them out. We offered our hand in friendship and they couldn’t wait for us to leave. AMF!!

vietnam war protestor

Mobile-exxon wants us to protect “their” oil. Remember Operation Iraqi Liberation before the name change. Whats good mobile-exxon is good for america right? Or was that gm before they went bankrupt.

Hondo

vietnam war protestor: (yawn) – I’m sorry, did you say something?

When you have an intelligent or original thought, get back to us. Until then, how about you go play with the other children at DU ant let the adults discuss things here?

OWB

Yeah, well, as we packed up to leave the Persian Gulf the first time, we said, “We’ll be back one day to finish the job.” We went back, but we did NOT finish the job. Time to just pack it up and never go back.

Unfortunately, this clown will not protect our assets and WILL get a bunch of people killed in the process. He is incapable of doing anything else.

Ex-PH2

Did vwp say something about Iraqi oil? Okay, then get this, you moron.

It is not, and never was mobile-exxon. The corporation you are referring to was and is ExxonMobil. Notice that the word ‘Mobil’ is spelled without a final ‘e’. Exxon, the corporation, bought Mobil Oil back in 1998, and is now in the process of buying 226,000 acres of oil sands from ConocoPhilips. When Exxon bought Mobil Oil, it became ExxonMobil (XOM) and has remained so ever since.

In regard to Iraqi oil, while Exxon was operating and pumping oil in the Qurna fields in 2010, by January this year (2013) Exxon and BP were in dispute over the Kurdish fields. There is now a discussion underway between the Governor of Nineveh province and Exxon, among other oil companies, to develop the 20 untapped oil fields in Nineveh province.

So are we going back in there? Yeah – to protect the damn oil fields and nothing else. Why is anyone surprised?

Smitty

is it just me or does war protester get more ridiculous every time he speaks?

Smitty

umm ex, iraq speaks arabic, not farsi

Hondo

Smitty: correct. About 15-20% speak Kurdish as their first language and about 5% speak various languages, including Farsi, as their native tongue. The rest are native Arabic speakers.

Ex-PH2

Well, I was partly right, wasn’t I?

Devtun

Not to worry, our brilliant Emperor Bam thought Austria spoke Austrian…George Carlin routine somewhere in there.

Hondo

Devtun: regarding George Carlin, and with apologies to the late DeForrest Kelly, “He’s dead, Dev.” (smile)

2/17 Air Cav

@34. I wouldn’t know. As I’ve said before, I am grateful that he keeps the same tag so I can bypass his crap.

USMCE8Ret

@ “vwp” – We all know you’re an idiot, but what des “…Iraq arabic for vietnam!” supposed to mean?

And where did you come up with the phrase “Operation Iraqi Liberation”?

Fuggin’ idgit… If you’re going to try and participate in a discussion, at least TRY to type coherent sentences and have an inkling of knowledge to support the point you’re trying to make.

USMCE8Ret

should read “..but what does”.

NHSparky

VWP–gee, what’s the purpose of a military? Ya think it might be having something to do with defending a country AND ITS INTERESTS HERE AND ABROAD?

Because that little pond over there known as the Persian Gulf has a few nations around it that are responsible for only about 10 percent of our oil, but about 50 percent of Europe’s. Cut off the Strait of Hormuz (or the Suez) and watch the WORLD economy (not just ours) turn to warm runny shit overnight.

How is letting that happen in ANYONE’S interest? And what would you propose to do if someone like, say, Iran, threatens to close the Gulf?

Hondo

Ex-PH2: Iraq is the region of Mesopotamia that was formerly the heartland of the Babylonian and/or Chaldean Empires. They’ve consistently been historical enemies of Persia, and have been fighting them off-and-on for 3000 years or longer. Not much love lost there.

Other than in embassies, I’m guessing the only places in Iraq you’ll hear much Farsi spoken are along the Iranian border, or in commercial negotiations. (smile)

NHSparky

Jonn–a family of 4 get over $500/month even after the cuts. I’ve got a family of five and we don’t even spend that much.

Yeah, hard for me to feel sorry for someone claiming it’s a burden for them.

Smitty

Master Sergeant, its amazing what a simply coma can do for a statement. place the little bugger in there, and it becomes Iraq, arabic for vietnam. i think moron with a 3rd grade reading level was trying to claim similarities between iraq and vietnam, but can neither comprehend nor discuss beyond the typical hippie catch phrases.

Ex-PH2

First of all, Hondo, my brain is only firing on one cylinder right after I get up, especialy when it has not been the recipient of sufficient caffeine to start up on all cylinders. Sorry about that. I’ll go make a pot of very strong tea. I have a long day ahead of me.

Second, and also however, the Persian Empire included Iraq, stretchng from what is now Turkey and a smidge of mainland Greece and Macedonia on the west, southwest through Syria, Jordan and Israel and Gaza and onward into Africa to embrace parts of modern Egypt and Libya, northward up to the Caucasus, and eastward into what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan, ending at India.

Here’s a map for you for illustration. http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/geography/ig/Maps-of-Ancient-Greece/Persian-Empire-Map.–lv.htm

This was under Cyrus II, 6th century BCE.

Here’s a set of maps of the Middle East, starting back in the 8th century BCE, showing the increasing influence of Middle Eastern warlords on that area.

http://www.science.co.il/Maps-Near-East-Empires.asp

I have to find my copy of ‘Paris: 1919’. It has a map of the world before the Treaty of Versailles changed the boundaries of all those nations to suit the needs/wishes of France, Italy, the USA and Great Britain. It’s here somewhere. The bibliomaniac gnomes that live in my house have borrowed it.

Jacobite

With Iraq accounting for something less than 4% of our yearly oil and petroleum imports, I find it hard to believe any support we send back to the sandbox will be based on protecting oil interests.

No, this is just wrong headed statesmanship on the part of the community organizer-in-chief. Iraq’s current power elite are figuring out that hanging on to power without our help is gonna be tougher than they suspected so they’re crying uncle and asking for help.

Should we give it to them? I don’t think we should, at least not without some absolutely draconian agreements in our favor first.

It bears remembering that a goodly number of the armaments we faced in the hands of rebels and insurgents, were munitions we gave to their ’cause’ against Iran in the 80’s, mixed well with munitions they recieved from other Western nations all the way up to just before our last invasion.

Are we now going to face modern artillery, Abrams tanks and Apache helicopters when we have to return in 20-30 years to slap them down again? You bet your sweet ass we are.

Thank you Obama, great legacy you’re leaving there.

Hondo

Ex-PH2: the Persian Empire ruled what is today Iraq for about 2 centuries – from the fall of Babylon in 539 BC until itself was overthrown by Alexander the Great in 332BC. Prior to that time, Babylon was independent – and constantly at war with its neighbors. It dates back until roughly 1900BC as an independent entity.

After the fall of the Persian Empire to Alexander and Alexander’s death, a succession of empires ruled much of the Middle East. Their capitals were either in classical Mesopotamia or Persia, depending on which faction was ascendant at the time. The region was sometimes united, but hardly peaceful. And even when united, internal strife between east (Persia) and west (Mesopotamia/Anatolia) was common.

In 640, the Arab conquest allowed Iraq (Abbasid Caliphate, capital Baghdad) to return the favor by conquering Persia and imposing an empire. That persisted for a bit under 600 years, until the Abbasid Caliphate was destroyed by the invasion of Ghengis Khan. At that point, the Persians regained their independence. The two remained wary enemies and regional powers (albeit under Ottoman control in the case of Iraq after the rise of the Ottoman Empire) until each was subjected to de facto European control after World War I.

Bottom line: Mesopotamia (today’s Iraq) and Persia have been at war with each other off-and-on for around 3000 years. Frankly, there’s a longer history of bad blood there than between Arab and Jew.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Hell we sold them anthrax to help them kill Iranians, along with some other pathogens and toxins in 70 documented shipments….that worked out really well for us last time right? After they killed some Iranians they used the materials we shipped them to develop their own WMDs and we started a war to get those back as I recall…then we deposed the government and bailed out leaving a power vacuum, now we think we can head back in and make it all better by leaving some helicopters and advanced weaponry? Because historically our trading in arms has been such a benefit to our national interests?

Did I miss another memo?

Ex-PH2

No argument on the timeline, Hondo. It probably goes back even further than that.

There are the foundations of four round towers measuring about 45 in diameter in a rectangle, that were recently found (before this civil war) in southwestern Syria.

It looks like the base of some kind of fortress, and the guesstimated date is 15,000 years ago. Think about that for a moment. That goes back further than the ice-up caused by the cold-water dump into the Atlantic, which was the Younger Dryas period (12,500 years ago). You have to start asking yourself just how old civilization really is.