Stand Your Ground in Houston
David sent us this story from Houston today. I’ve seen it a couple of times over the past few days, but apparently it’s a thing now. 23-year-old Shanequia McDonald was accosted by 58-year-old Louis Daniel in a bar. When she left, he followed her to the service station, where she drew a 22-caliber rifle from her car when she saw that Daniel had a knife and an umbrella and bowed up at her. He punched her and she shot him dead. From KHOU;
Family members identified the victim as 58-year-old Louis Daniel.
He was pronounced dead at the scene.
According to police, the shooter claimed the man had made unwanted sexual advances and refused to leave her alone. She also told police she feared for her life.
According to witnesses, the victim was acting strangely.
“He had an expression like he was just mad at the world,” said Jon Thomas who was in the parking lot at the time of the gunfire.
“She just had the gun pointed down to the ground and said get back. I guess he didn’t expect or like that.”
I don’t know how Daniel accosts the woman and follows her, then threatens her with a knife and suddenly he’s a “victim”. He’s a victim of his own stupidity. But anyway, it looks like that in Texas it’s spurred a debate about “stand your ground”. Whatever. The guy made it clear that the only way the young woman was going to come out of that situation was after Daniel became “the victim”.
Category: Feel Good Stories, Guns
Looks like the lady stood her ground to me.
A child can slit another child’s throat because of bullying, but a women attacked by a grown man with a knife can’t use a gun to stop him……….unless he’s already stabbed her several times?
Fucking A America. Get your shit together.
If a woman says no it means no. If a woman says no and then produces a weapon it means “hell no”.
If you are dumb enough to take a swipe at her after that it’s not going to be a surprise that you end up taking a dirt nap.
Now that’s called getting the job done. Asshole was a threat, she eliminated him before he could get to her.
She did the best thing she could, put him in the ground so she didn’t have to worry about him becoming the “victim” in a court of law…
its racism! she killed a poor defenseless black man! find the nearest tree and hang her high! oh wait, shes black too? lets pretend this never happened.
good for her, son of a bitch had it coming and she had every right to defend herself
From what I’ve read, “Stand your ground” may not even apply. As I understand the argument, he had a knife, and was close enough to be an immediate threat, so there wasn’t a reasonable avenue of retreat available. So it’s not “Stand your ground”, but simple self-defense.
@7. You’re absolutely correct. Once again, if the reporters are reporting correctly, it’s self-defense, plain and simple. Stand your ground doesn’t enter into it.
She might get in some trouble for leaving the scene, but shooting someone for swinging a knife at you is perfectly reasonable. He clearly took a swing at her in the video. Whoever that “wild west” knucklehead was might who didn’t think a gun was necessary might reconsider after that knife is sticking out of his chest.
When this came up yesterday I thought she might have over reacted. The fact that he had followed her from another business and accosted her again, with a knife, brings this into focus. This was a clear cut case of self defense. This man committed “Suicide by Citizen”. Good riddance.
2 + 2 = 4.
4 = Dead.
Curious if Big Al Sharpton show up.
Warrior woman! Stand and salute!
I admire her presence of mind no end.
Just one question, and it’s rhetorical, of course: How is he a victim when he was going after her?
And where the hell is that reporter’s Texas accent? What is happening in my birth state?
Its called Texas Castle Law, it applies to your home, work, vehicle or simply on the sidewalk. She will most likely catch a “No Bill” at the grand jury hearing, which means no charges…..
Ex-PH, journalism classes take the accent out of the reporter…
Now, Streetsweeper, that’s hogwash and you know it! 🙂
Not waiting for the police and bolting…what was that? Glad she protected herself, but leaving the scene is gonna bite her.
IF the mouthy guy talking about the “wild west” was around talking the same way, I could not blame her one bit for leaving. But, yeah, otherwise, that doesn’t seem all that good. Just depends upon what was going around, and where she drove to when she left the scene.
All my training was to just shoot anyone coming at you with a knife. She did good.
@ 18! LMAO!
#19-Devtun: No, leaving that scene won’t bite her. That area of Houston isn’t exactly the friendliest….’specially since she done shot some dudes main man.
I’m with @7 on this one, but she should have hung around for Marshall Dillon to show up…
@22
Shoot, finish gassing up, take some pics, and drive off…now thats keeping calm and carrying on – damn, don’t mess w/ her.
So to today’s Urinalists, perpetrators become “victims” the moment their intended target defends him or herself. Colleges need to replace their old, pot-headed Birkenstock-wearing freeze-dried hippies pretending to be Professors!!
Saw this last night and was going to post the link but forgot. Now they (whoever) are trying to make him out to be the victim:
http://www.khou.com/home/Women-tell-conflicting-stories-about-deadly-shooting-in-SE-Houston-216697941.html
This is how the media spins things:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2373592/Woman-killed-stranger-gas-station-RIFLE-car-trunk-taking-pictures-dead-body-phone.html
@7 & 8 – Obviously, the fool brought a knife to a gun fight.
What’s not so interesting about all these reports from Houston is they consistently occur in Sheila Jackson Lee’s 18th congressional district. No surprise there – just an observation.
Journalistic integrity on display in this article certainly…I never realized the 4th definition for victim was synonymous with attempted perpetrator.
Andrew Branca has a nice analysis here:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/houston-gas-station-shooting-syg-or-not-break-it-down-with-aoj/
“She also told police she feared for her life.” The magic words. They should be inscribed on every firearm. “If used to shoot an assailant, tell the police that you thought he was trying to kill you.”
@29, didnt you defend trayvon martin, VOV? how is this guy attacking her any different than martin attacking zimmerman? its ok when martin wanted to be a perpetrator then was victim when shot but not this guy?
@32 not to beat the dead horse harder than I have to….
You believe Zimmerman, I don’t. But you already knew that and were asking what i assume is a rhetorical question.
If you’re trying to bait me into rehashing Zimmerman, nice try but I’m done. This woman was attacked, it’s on video there’s nothing to dispute with her story so yes this is different to me.
zimmerman was attacked, while martin didnt follow zimmerman, he was the attacker. if this woman was justified, than so was zimmerman. neither is a SYG, because neither could retreat. zimmerman on his back and this woman with in striking distance of a much larger man. the only difference, is that in this case it is a black woman doing the shooting. here, both the shooter and the “victim” (i like that, its funny) both have prior drug CONVICTIONS! but you convict zimmerman on past incidents that didnt even result in charges.
i am merely pointing out your hypocrisy, nothing more
That’s not even remotely close to the definition of hypocrisy, Smitty. We only ever had Zimmerman’s word and some superficial head wounds to validate that he was on his back, along with conflicting eyewitness testimony, and I say that even believing Zimmerman’s claims. In this case, there’s beautiful bean footage.
There’s a very large distinction between disputing someone’s credibility and video verification, and labeling it hypocrisy is deeply flawed.
19 & 22
I could see leaving the scene, what if he had “friends” around and they were armed? I would have left the scene too but I would have called the police and driven straight to the closest police station. If anything, that should be a slap on the wrist….a ticket, no more. If that wasn’t a justified shooting then there is no such thing…
Just yesterday there was a story in the San Diego Union-Tribune about a young woman in Chula Vista accosted by a young man in a gas station. He blocked her car, then stabbed her tire, so she couldn’t get away. He’s being charged with attempted kidnapping.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Attempted-Kidnapping-Suspect-Thomas-Paciornik-Arrested-Chula-Vista-216851561.html
I’ve always thought of gas stations as being fairly safe, because there are always a few people around. WTF?
35 BK
You’ve got some bad information.
There is a very good archive of all the trial testimony, plus explanations of the procedure, at LegalInsurrection.com mostly in articles by Andrew Branca.
If you want to know what the evidence at trial showed, you can find out.
BK, bullet trajectory, angle of fire, lack of any wounds other than the gun shot and knuckle cuts and bruises (from throwing punches) to martin. it has been well proved that martin was on top of zimmerman. you can deny evidence all ya want, doesnt change the proven facts.
the proven facts in the zimmerman case and the footage here make for very similar arguments and to defend the shooter in either case, by reason and logic, you should defend the shooter in both.
if your only case to blame zimmerman was that he followed martin, then you can make a distinction, but that has its own problems.
off topic, i read an article on an interview with one of the jurors that she said “we tried so hard to convict him, but the evidence didnt support it” gotta love the objectivity
@34 Thanks for pointing out my hypocrisy, I was completely unaware it existed until your post.
Because a woman who is followed to her car while pumping gas by a guy she tried to avoid in bar is exactly the same as a guy who gets out of his truck and tries to find a stranger in his neighborhood. That sounds the same, makes perfect sense. Glad to see you are part of the hypocrisy police making the internet safe by connecting completely different scenarios into identical situations. Well done, again check mate, you got me.
@28. Speaking of the blazing, bright intellect that is Sheila Jackson Lee, there is this. “She said her bill would also use the threat of less federal money to entice states to change their “stand your ground” laws. Jackson Lee said her bill would only allow states to avoid a cut if their laws are amended to include a “duty to retreat.” Read that to mean a duty to be a victim. http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/07/24/democrat-sheila-jackson-lee-filing-bill-to-cut-funding-to-any-state-that-doesnt-change-stand-your-ground-laws-to-duty-to-retreat/
@41 That would be the same Sheila Jackson Lee of the following quotes so it’s not really a surprise…
I am a queen, and I demand to be treated like a queen.
Anything my staff does in my office is pursuant to congressional rules.
I took and received campaign donations under the existing laws.
I happen to represent Enron here in Houston. We have many good corporate citizens here in Houston. Enron happened to have been one.
Don’t condemn the gangbangers, they’ve got guns that are trafficked
—-She is indeed one of our lesser members.
I’m sorry to say this, but VOV and Smitty, you two are acting like a couple of horses asses. You are both the prettiest girl at the prom, that dress does not make your butt look fat, and I’m sure the captain of the football team will ask you to the dance. So, please, just whip them out, measure, and put them away, already. That way it is done and over with and we can get back to this story. Okay, never mind my first five words; I’m not sorry to say that.
With regards to this case, the link posted by Al T. (#30) did a good analysis of why this is straight up self-defense and the current hot button controversy phrase (stand your ground) shouldn’t even have been uttered. Had any of you ever heard this on the news before the past year? Probably not, it was just “self defense.”
My only issue is exactly what was brought up in the article. Why did she take the pictures before leaving? Any prosecutor worth their sheep skin will claim “trophy” to the jury. But, because it was a black-on-black crime, it will probably never get national attention and thus not make it past grand jury.
@43 Guilty….even as I supposedly mature into my golden years I can be a serious d1ckweed…
VOV, a man wanting to protect his neighborhood that you want crucified for allegations that never manifested in charges is the bad guy, but a woman with several drug convictions is your saint?
your condemnation of zimmerman was always on his back round, the allegations of wrong doing he was never charged or convicted of. so here we have actual convictions, but you over look them. in both cases, the aggressor was shot and killed, the only thing that changed was the person pulling the trigger.
so as much as you want to disconnect and disassociate them, it is the same story
i would argue the pictures were taken to prove he was armed and the aftermath of the incident before anything could be altered. if he was a local man, he may know people around the area that may tamper with the scene before police arrive. many parts of houston have slow police response times and she may have wanted verification of the event as her story told it
@45 Crucified? Not at all, he’s a great guy I’m sure he will lead a happy and productive existence with all that positive karma.
Smitty, it seems you’re right. Houston PD has had some issues with response times. So, taking a pic of what the guy had in his hands just seems like a good idea. As does going somewhere safe, rather than hanging around at the scene.
VOV, lets stick to military issues, we agree on those.
UpNorth, i am a cop, i have heard far more bizarre things justified and explained after incidents. i am more shocked by how calm she stayed and that she filled her car before she left. if she had taken the pictures got in her car and left then called the police and waited somewhere safe, i would have found no fault. the fact that she remained in the area with the man after he was shot and dead/dying long enough to gas up her car doesnt sit right with me. i am not saying i think she is guilty of anything other than defending herself, but her actions strike me as peculiar
@49 Eventually, I will end up conceding the point on Zimmerman that the shooting was justified….it takes me a while to get there dude.
When I think bout this whole event, because I am not a police officer, I think I would have waited for the officer before running off to find the guy.
Especially if the dispatcher mentioned they didn’t need me to follow him anymore….I understand your point about that dispatcher not actually being the law that must be obeyed, and I understand intellectually that whatever happened to initiate the confrontation resulted in Martin beating the sh1t out of Zimmerman to the point Zimmerman justifiably shot Martin….I can wrap my head around it all day….in the back of my mind though is the thought that none of it happens if Zimmerman waits in the truck for someone like you who is trained to respond to a situation of a suspicious individual in a neighborhood.
I guess I would like to think under that response when the officer gets there with a waiting Zimmerman, that Martin and Zimmerman actually understand each other and nobody dies….I’m mostly a realist but every once in a while I’m guilty of being a dreamer.
Sorry for being a d1ck, I like your posts and I figure we might not be so very far apart on a great many other issues.