Consulting the “experts” on women in combat
I had to think a couple of times before I posted this link that James sent us because I didn’t want it to sound like I’m being the big bad infantryman bashing some Air Force chick, but, ya know what, she’s asking for it. She’s Senior Airman Stacy Fogarty and she says she served in Iraq, which is honorable enough, but I’m guessing that as an expert on women in combat, her experience is somewhat lacking. But that’s not what she tells the reporter dude;
“The enemy is not looking at us and say oh, they’re women. Let’s not do what we were going to do. They just see us as Americans and we should see each other as Americans not broken down by male and female,” she said.
“Do you feel that you had combat experiences when you were in the Air Force?” I asked.
“Absolutely. Yeah,” she said. “Civilians are throwing bombs over to the base. So at any time we could be hit. You’re not segregated out there as to who is combat and who is not. The minute you hit the AOR (area of responsibility) that’s a combat.”
Fogarty acknowledged there is a difference between being “in combat” and being in an infantry unit where you have to pull a trigger.
“Do you think you could have been on the front lines pulling a trigger?” I asked.
“I do. In the military you’re trained to do what needs to be done for the greater good,” Fogarty said.
“As soon as I asked that question I thought I’m not sure I’d even ask that question to a man,” I said.
“It’s interesting isn’t it?” she said.
Now, my wife’s friend, a nurse, was killed in Iraq when she was out running around the Green Zone one day when a mortar landed near her, I’m pretty sure that if she had lived through that experience she wouldn’t admit that because she’d been blown up, she’d make a good infantryman. But Fogarty, somehow thinks that because she *could* have been blown up at some point in her tour, that makes her equal to any infantryman. Actually all that makes her is a potential target. I’m sure she did a fine job, whatever that was, because she doesn’t tell us what she did in Iraq, but I think if we knew what her job was, we’d think her bravado would seem even more ridiculous.
While I’m sure her Air Force training was the best they could give her, I’m also sure that none of it had much to do with pulling triggers, not that it’s a bad thing, the Air Force seems more focused on their specialties and less on the ancillary war-fighting stuff, mainly because they have people in the Air Force to protect their technicians from the war-fighting stuff, and they depend on the Army and Marines for extra layers of protection.
I’m also sure that Stacy joined the Air Force so she’d be back from the battle, otherwise, she might have enlisted in the Marines or the Army. but, that’s just speculation because I don’t know what her job was in the Air Force, but she’s not exactly forthcoming on that point.
On edit: MCPO NYC USN (Ret.) dropped a video off in the comments, and it turns out that she worked in a medical supply room, so yeah, she’s a hardened combat vet more than qualified to comment on women in combat.
Category: Military issues
She’s not just a Senior Airman, she’s a retired Senior Airman. I wonder if the reporter knows that ‘senior airman’ equals E4?
Holy cow. I spent a year in Iraq, wasn’t combat. Did my unit take casualties? Yes, sadly. But we were not out trolling for bad guys like the guys in the battalions.
I was at Balad Air Base when I did my tour, and yes we did take some incoming every now and then, but no one was ever hurt.
While at Balad, my unit did Route Clearance operations down to north Baghdad(Taji). The difference between being outside the wire to life on Balad was as different as night between day. So if Sr. Airman Fogarty thinks that having a few incoming rockets and mortars makes her combat experienced is farfetched to say the least. Hell, the only part of Balad life that made me jump was when the C-RAM system fired on any incoming.
Infantry is infantry, “Queen of battle.”
Army or Marine Corps …
all else in the two military branches
exists to support them.
But I don’t ever knock the Zoomies.
There was a posting on facebook of a
Stars and Stripes interview with an
airman at Khe Sahn, during the siege.
He was asked what he did there.
His reply, “Plane lands, mortar rounds start
coming in. Marines all run for the trenches
and bunkers. Me, I start up the fork-lift and
unload the plane.”
Plus there’s this bit from my blog:
http://jmawelsh.blogspot.com/2012/06/29-jun-12.html
The song from the SNL skit “Pat” sticks in my head when I read quote about the AOR.
“People say what’s that? Thats a combat”
Even rhymes too.
Well now that we have experts weighing in I guess everything will be fine, no need to worry about silly 4ss stuff like standards or prerequisites or any of that nonsense…
Holy bullcheet.
I remember the E4 Senior Airmen running around my ex-wife’s graduation from Lackland AFB. I made sure I let each of those ersatz “tough guys” that my poop was significantly larger than theirs.
She had a “familiarization” course with M16A2s, and a few people may have gotten a day’s worth of range time in. My ex-wife got out as an E6, and never touched a weapon away from Lackland. She knew the distinction between her life in the Air Force and my life as an infantryman. She also knows there’s an even larger difference between presenting a stationary target and shooting, moving, and communicating – every time she washed my salt-crusted uniforms.
Clownette.
There are currently AF Security Forces females doing outside the wire patrols in Afghanistan. They are shot at and blown up on a regular basis. Although a minority they do exist. I rub shoulders with them every day. Any questions I would be happy to answer them for you.
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson
Actually, Jonn, WRT to the “pulling triggers” issue, I would argue that pulling a trigger is one of the easiest things an infantryman can do, and nobody doubts that women are as capable as men of “pulling triggers.” Hell, we put women in the military police and they are trained to do all sorts of trigger pulling there. Pulling a trigger only takes a little training and a little pressure.
When it comes to the infantry, though, the issue IMO is not one of pulling triggers, it’s of being able to hump a rucksack for 10 or 20 or 30 k’s, spend the night in a defensive posture without any of the comforts of home and still be able to fight effectively. It’s being able to carry a base plate or an M-240 and still be effective. That is something I simply don’t see happening.
sitting in the chowhall on FOB Warhorse back in late 04 one of my soldiers overheard some female soldier prattling on about how she “deserved” a CIB. seems she had been in a convoy that had a near miss with an IED, no vehicles damaged or disabled and I guess a few gunners sprayed a few rounds and the convoy pushed through the killzone. so, she heard a IED go off, did not take direct fire, nor returned fire, but she felt she was entitled to the CIB. I often met soldiers both female and male that I had to wonder what world they were living in.
“Retired” as an E-4? … and she speaks English so well…
Stacy Foggarttee is a media whore and she ain’t pretty:
From two years ago!
@9 no one denies that. But by her own words, this retired airmen is not one of them. Her experience of combat is hearing incoming indirect fire. But she tells us that is the same as humping your weight in gear to go kick down a door and shoot a true believer in the face. It’s the difference between being in the front office of a SB winning team and being the guy that is sweating on the field. You still get a ring and you contributed to the achievement but you, are not the same as the guy that’s out there catching passes.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stacy-fogarty/3b/962/609
She is a professional comfort giver!
“…[W]e should see each other as Americans not broken down by male and female.” Uh, no thanks. I prefer looking at women as women. I’m particularly fond of American women, preferably with a little twang and, truth be known, red or strawberry blond hair.
“…that’s a combat.” Hmmm. I wonder how much time separation there must be between civilian bomb throwings for “a combat” to become two or more combats? Inquiring minds want to know.
Oh, so she was worked in a medical supply room, so yeah, that’s just like combat.
Bad hair day!
http://www.dvidshub.net/image/96857/332nd-expeditionary-medical-support-squadron-work-iraq
Facebook Facetime:
https://www.facebook.com/compeer.rochester/posts/491981207510106
I’ve often wondered what journalists would do if they actually questioned a real expert about anything…probably faint dead away from contact with real knowlege.
She got a free vacation home for her family reunion:
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120831/BUSINESS/308310003/Finger%20Lakes%20Veterans%20Vacation%20Homes
@22. That’s just shameful and sad. This was thanks for her “fighting in Iraq.”
Be Stacy’s BFF Forever:
http://www.meetup.com/Games-for-Health-Rochester/members/63268092/
@15…youre right. I jumped the gun a little bit with my response. Perhaps they just picked the wrong female. The ladies out busting their ass aren’t as quick to raise their hand when liberal media comes looking for an “expert”.
If it looks like a cow, and smells like a cow … well sports fans it is a big smelly cow.
There is more to this story … I betcha!
The free vacation home … I would love to see that application!
That is the problem with the media, leftist media. They want feel good stories. So if you want to know about “a combat” don’t talk to an infantryman. Find a feminine hygiene product to interview about their horrid experiences of war inside the wire. When they talk to an infantryman it is about the chow, letters from home, email to family…but rarely what “real combat” is like. She is a media whore riding that poney for all it’s worth in sympathy. Until…she breaks its back. Looking at her size she better switch to a 16 hand horse. I am not saying woman on base don’t do their jobs or see things that no one forgets. But to make her a poster child for woman in “a combat” is f@cked up.
Oh no … she is not a media whore:
She is the Media Mama San for all media whores:
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20130530/NEWS01/305300060/veterans-American-Legion-VFW
I am so sorry … but really?
For those who don’t know, my son is an Air Force surgical technician who served his six months in Afghanistan. He never says that he “fought in the war”, he never says that he was in constant danger every day, and the “shit he saw in the war” happened in the operating room.
Soldier of the Day:
https://www.facebook.com/soldieroftheday/posts/115073705246718
@25 Agreed. They never find the people who joined for the right reasons and performed admirably simply because it was their job to do so. The media always seems to find the ones who flaunt their service for all the wrong reasons. Kinda a character thing on display there.
Her own You Tube Channel?
Disturbing video here:
Media whore extraordinaire!!
First off, not bragging. But I’ve been far closer to “the bad guys” in a supposedly non-shooting war than probably 50-75 percent of the people who served in Iraq.
Jorge, a sometime commenter here, knows of which I speak–he was THERE with me.
That being said, although my service qualifies me and I took advantage of membership in the VFW and American Legion, in no way do I consider myself a “combat veteran.” I never heard a shot (rifle, torpedo, or otherwise) fired in anger.
This “woman” needs to check herself before she wrecks herself. She hasn’t the first fucking clue of which she speaks.
She is the President and CEO of:
Media Whores Without Borders International Who Have YouTube Channels With Disturbing Videos (MWWBIWHYCWDV)
nothing like that “human flesh search engine” to did up so much.
*dig up
Locally. The Martinsburg Jouran (WV) regularly runs stories about Veterans. NEVER does a reporter review a DD 214 apparently and every VN Vet is homeless, a druggie, and has a long rap sheet, it seems. It’s amazing. It’s sickening. It’s unconscionable. When will these f’ers ever learn that IF a Veteran is presenting himself or herself for a feature story, it’s almost always BS!
@38. Martinsburg Journal. Jonn must know it. I swear one could to posers featured in that rag and never, ever run out of stories.
“I swear one could dedicate a blog solely to posers featured in that rag and never, ever run out of stories.” Ugh. I quit. Again.
@29 Thank your son for his service for me Jonn as I haven’t stated it before, and I’m sure he saw some horrible stuff in the side of injuries but this lady …
You know what? I think I’ve seen more combat in Funker530 youtube channel than she probably even heard… can I call myself a combat veteran? “I mean i was there man!! no shit!! (hold my beer) watching the youtube video and I heard that crack near my head it was hardcore duuuuuudeeeeeeeeee”
If some of you don’t mind a suggestion….navigate to this video on YouTube and add your comments there, since we’re all “preaching to the choir” on this site.
You might educate some of the many uninformed that go to YouTube.
I just posted a comment to her at Soldier of The Day
https://www.facebook.com/soldieroftheday/posts/115073705246718
I can’t imagine the heat I will take from that but that’s the way the truth goes. Sometimes it is as ugly as the person involved…almost. Hope I offended no one at Soldier of The Day, they seem like a good site but she needed IMHO to be asked to clarify what she did as opposed to a combat tour infantryman.
OK, I am admittedly overly sensitive with anyone who beclowns the USAF, but this makes me angry on more than a couple of levels.
Oh, to spend a few minutes in a room alone with this “retired” E-4. Any volunteers to watch the door to make certain that we are not interrupted, and to see that no recording devices are within range?
Yep, probably could still explain a few facts of life to her in terms she could understand in spite of my own experience with military medical personnel being either extremely competent or thoroughly useless. No middle ground with them. Guess which she is most likely to be?
My comment on her SOTD Facebook article:
“I have read about you and your service on other sites. You served honorably and thank you for your service. However, to allow yourself to be held out as serving a “combat tour” is a bit misleading and disingenuous. You should clarify what you actually did as opposed to what a real combat tour to an infantryman is like. If you are helping returning infantry vets, thank you, but in doing so you should well know the difference between your job and theirs.”
I’ll point out that she’s probably doing good things for veterans at her current job and doesn’t need to be harassed at her job, but, she does need to take some Sit Down & STFU about “fighting in Iraq”.
Jonn – – agreed!
I laugh in people’s general directions when they (Scott Funk) refer to my beloved Jonn as a bigot.
Empathy is fine and dandy, and an excellent characteristic to own when “helping” vets. But, someone with this sort of attitude can just as easily do great harm. “Been there, done that” is only effective when you actually have “been there, done that.”
Ok, lets talk about this. I’m a veteran. I’m medical. I saw a shitton of blasted up joes at WRAMC, that was, yes, *Combat Trauma*. But I’m not an Iraq/Afghanistan veteran. My little chunk of the war was fought with morphine, some fentenyl, a stethoscope and a variety of antibiotics in DC…..AND we lived off post!
But, the key difference here is I don’t claim to be anything else.
Lets face it….She’s a supply clerk! She didn’t even take direct care of wounded. Our loud little specialist needs to check herself before some big, mean ass AF Master Sergeant straightens her out.