From The Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Files
the era of Über political correctness has struck the a brigade in Army’s 4th Infantry division. Before I get to commenting too much about the major douchegasm that a full bird Colonel just had, I’ll let you read what he wrote.
Done reading? Are the NCOs in the audience turning red? that’s right sports fans, you are no longer to “smoke” your privates, as this might be considered “hazing” and is counter productive. Correcting deficiencies will now fall to sending the hapless privates to a class and inspecting the deficiencies until they’re corrected. There will be no unique or embarrassing corrective measures. The memo makes it pretty clear that all the measures that were effective and novel in making sure shit bag privates square themselves away most ricky-tick will now be a thing of the past.
Pah-THETIC! Look any private that isn’t terrified of his NCO’s wrath obviously has some bad NCOs. Everything from cleaning their room, to having their weapon cleaned properly and in a timely fashion are vital to military life, and though the Army can sometimes focus on the bullshit routines of garrison there is nonetheless a solid reason for each of those routines. Having a private yell out “I LIKE TO F**K MY BUDDIES!” as loud as he can while running in a circle holding his rifle over his head might seem cruel at first glance, but ask that private if he’ll ever flag a friendly with a loaded weapon again.
I have learned a lot of vital lessons because an NCO took me out to the grass and smoke the crap out of me. Because I knew that my NCOs would come down on me like a ton of bricks my uniforms for Motorpool Monday formations were always pressed and my boots were so well shined I could have used them to shave with. Because of an NCO making me do elevated push ups while I listed the parts of a 9-line, I remembered them. Because of an NCO dummy cording a giant brick to a guy and making him carry it everywhere, I never forgot my weapon. These lessons have a way of staying with you too. Even now long after I’ve gotten out of the Army I’m always early to any meeting I might be having.
Expecting the NCOs to churn out quality soldiers that can go anywhere do anything, while simultaneously tying their hands up makes about as much sense as a poopy flavored lollypop. Unfortunately the society that America is becoming sees adversity and hardship as having no value. Everyone is a special little rainbow. All we seem to be producing are obnoxious self obsessed fat assholes. How we expect our Army to continue to rock and roll kicking asses and taking names when we can’t even drop someone is beyond me, but no doubt that is exactly what we’ll be expecting of them
Category: Reality Check, Shitbags
Welcome to the kinder gentler military. The full bird’s way of fixing things will not make anything better.
I don’t know which military this assclown got his bird in, but it most definitely wasn’t the U.S. Army. They want the military to be kinder and gentler without knifehands and push-ups… why the hell did they join the military in the first place? It’s about discipline! It is not about making everyone feel like a winner.
Things have been like this for years now. If I’m not mistaken, we have a policy letter with almost the exact same wording. Even as an NCO who never needed to have my Soldiers fear me, I feel emasculated to an extent by the policies and practices that I started watching creep up in the mid-2000s. Though I was usually the “nice guy”, I occasionally had to put a Soldier or two in an uncomfortable position for an hour or three. Some Soldiers only learn through muscle memory, and there is no need to start paperwork over every little transgression.
Around 2007 or so, we had a General’s Aide stop one of our NCOs who was doing some old school “correcting”. The Captain stopped his vehicle and jumped out, yelling at the Sergeant that he was wrong, and telling the suddenly confused screw-up to get up. This was on Fort McNair, where Infantry NCOs were limited to a single company, while officers were a dime a dozen. A couple of years earlier we had the MDW CSM, CSM Greer, stop one of our NCOs who had a Private doing Iron Mikes around the parade field. CSM Greer was a veteran Ranger approaching retirement, and probably saw much worse in his younger days. I like to believe that he was simply trying to avoid an officer making a scene as opposed to having bought into the whole “kinder, gentler” stuff himself.
It is a challenge now. I have a young Specialist working under me who has no choice but to report it to an NCO when a PFC mouths off. Ten years ago, the E-4s would have broken that Private off, and only then passed him to an NCO.
I gotta hand it to the Navy. They saw this coming years and years ago and got in early. Hell, they wrote the military manual on poitical correctness. Now, the Army has to play catch-up.
I was in AIT and standing in formation when the Drills decided to check boots for shines. I hadn’t done it and counted on them not checking. I was wrong. We were wearing our rucksacks, loaded with our books and training materials for the day, and I got sent to the front of the formation and dropped by the Senior Drill. While I was pushing, he took his time and calmly and slowly reiterated the standards required for our uniforms and boots. He then stood there with a boot under my face and told me how I could see my reflection both up close and when I push out. And he then had me do that several dozen more times to remind me that that was the standard for our boots.
I needed it. I learned from it. I can shine a boot like a mo-fo. Most importantly though, I never once felt violated, harassed, or hazed by being dropped for not meeting a known, set standard.
After all the rumors of “stress cards” and the like in boot camp, is it any surprise we’ve come to this? I remember when I first got to my first boat one of my fellow RC-Divvers screwed up and paralleled an MG (motor-generator) about 135 degrees out of phase and damn near blew it out of its mounts, which ended up blowing the thyristor.
He got to carry that thyristor around (no small piece of equiupment) around for a couple of weeks, including sleeping with it. See if that happens now.
This insanity begins at home where spanking is widely regarded as child abuse, to school where zero tolerance policies for fighting mean the victim who defends himself instead of running is suspended, to the workplace where anything short of playing Dilbert is potentially career ending. The military, with its traditionalism and penchant for immediate discipline of a physical nature, cannot go unaffected. It just can’t.
I award you more points for a “Dodgeball” reference.
I have seen this crap as far back as 2002. When I first arrived at Ft Wainwright as an E-5 I learned of a thing called “the green tab memo” where all NCO’s could do is counsel soldiers, no corrective training allowed. I was introduced to my Fire Team and was shocked to find out that I was now the only person on that team not getting kicked out of the Army. About 6 months later my 1SG stood in front of formation and tore up a copy of the memo. He then said “men, the green tab memo has been rescinded, NCO’s have at em”. Shockingly moral, discipline, and proficiency went up drasticly.
As an AIT instructor, we had to do smoke sessions, we had to make an example, we had to do little things to ensure Soldiers knew what they were doing so they’d graduate.
More than once, we’d have two Soldiers get into a fight, either verbally or even a little physical. So, of course, our next step was to make them battle buddies and go everywhere together, after getting smoked.
I even tell my NCOs now, as an E-8, I don’t get smoked anymore, every mistake I make is potentially applied to my NCOER. I wish it was a smoke session when I messed something up. Now when I do, I’ve gotta hear it from two E-9s, an O-4, and maybe an O-3. (Sounds like Office Space, sad isn’t it?)
All I see in this memo is, “Fuck, no one better do anything that will prevent me from making O-7!”
We used to joke about stress cards, but what better way to prepare the infantry for the integration of women?
I am so glad I am out. If I had to go to war with the whining legion of vaginal blood farts that this kind of limp-wristed policy will produce, I would have to cull half a platoon “accidentally” just to ensure I had actual warriors.
Ridiculous.
SSG. Voce (who probably doesn’t read this forum, but I’m naming him anyway) was hands down one of the best NCOs I’ve ever had the pleasure to serve with in the Army.
When I was a young private and used to screw something up he’d “smoke” me. I was never offended or felt “hazed” by it. I knew I screwed up and was taking a justly earned punishment.
I remember he even hung a rope in one of the trees next to our building at Kelly Barracks and used to make me climb it instead of doing pushups.
I think, in the end, being “smoked” for various and sundry things I did stupidly created a better soldier and a better adult. Even now, retired and old, I pay attention to detail(s). I notice things that other people don’t. I don’t fuck up like a lot of my family members, and other people that I know. And honestly I owe that to SSG. Voce (and a lot of other great NCOs, to numerous to list.)
The pussification has reached the shores of my beloved United States Army. Know who’s an even bigger asshole than your NCOs? Mr. I Hate Americans, that’s who. He makes his point with an AK-47 and he hurts a lot more than your self-esteem.
I agree with #9-the Army has become the Navy: This guy is more worried about his next promotion than he is about making sure soldiers stay alive in combat.
Eric: agreed. Seems to me he’s managing his career, not leading his troops.
But what do I know.
*and HE used to make …
Wow, I’ve been out since ’83….things have surely changed in both wonderful and oddly strange ways….
I saw a guy in 1978 with a dirty weapon get slapped upside his head and have to carry that weapon wrapped in plastic over his head every where we went for a week…..you could have eaten off every other weapon in the platoon within an hour after that slap…
Did the guy feel like a dumb4ss for a week? Sure he did, but he never did that again. And when it was over, it was over the NCOs knew the guy was squared away and that was that….
I’d rather take a beating than an endless stream of stupid f$cking conversation over and over and over about a simple issue that can be resolved with a quick slap to the head and some simple embarrassment…
In 1949 at Parris Island one of the recruits in my grandfather’s platoon called his M1 a “gun”. They made the guy, in the lovely SC weather, stand with his rifle above his head with his elbows locked screaming “this is my rifle” over and over again while the platoon ran around him. They did this until the recruit passed out.
Last time anybody called a rifle a “gun”.
While I agree there is a significant trend of ‘political correctness’ infiltrating the military, I don’t think this is completely true across the board. In the Marine Corps, good ole fashion thrashings are still occuring albeit they’re more ‘under the radar’ than in years past. If you would like to have an example ask any active duty member of 5th Marines in California. Those hills can hide a lot of ‘corrective action’!
Back in 86, at Ft Jackson on Old Tank Hill we had was was called the microwave. When you f**k up royally the DS sent you to the next platoon to be smoked by their DS’s, then on to the next and the next until you were crawling back to your platoon. Where your own DS’s got to finish you off. Those lessons are NEVER FORGOTTEN. However we did have a DS keep a kid in a handstand until he passed out collapsed and almost broke his neck. He lost his Brown Round and 2 Stripes. He was a cap wearing Corporal when we graduated.
Things have been this way for the last few years, as fm2176 pointed out. When I went to WLC (what used to be PLDC) there were a few students who were booted out because they thought the cadre were being abusive and had no right to talk to them that way. Thank god all of them ended up being slapped with a bar to reenlistment and at least one of their Article 15s ended up being field-grade, but the idea that soldiers had made it to that point in the Army without being able to let harsh words and loud noises roll off their shoulders was somewhat embarrassing.
My guess is that part of the reason the current standard of counselings and corrective training instead of smoke sessions and putting mistakes on blast is that it stacks up paperwork fast enough to recommend and initiate separation. I suppose that meshes with the pressure being put on commanders to get rid of as many personnel as they can. Since all this takes now is a couple bad monthly counselings and a couple negatives, some units have a lot of once-fixable soldiers that have turned full shitbag and are now spending a longer amount of time going through transition (especially going to the TMC, IDES, and anything else they can do to max out their disability ratings) than they ever did as ready and working soldiers after they got out of AIT.
So that memo means that SGT Hulka can’t make me do pushups in the rain any more? Durn! (I miss Warren Oates a lot. The good ones are disappearing.)
And that means I can’t tell people to do field day or no liberty until the place is squared away and the floor is shinier than porcelain plates any more, either?
Well, I can only say that lack of discipline can get you killed.
I got to the second line, and read this: “We are a value based organization…”
And this is supposed to be a leader of WARRIORS?
God help our military.
So if the corrective training is supposed to be related to the offense, does that mean a Soldier caught hazing another soldier should be……hazed? Just asking. BTW one of the best corrective training sessions i ever saw was at Balad AB. A Soldier forgot his weapon and his squad leader didn’t smoke him. He just had the private stand at parade rest in 130 degree weather and began to read EVERY policy letter dealing with weapons. There must have been 5 or 6 letters. A SGM walked by and asked “Are you smoking that private?” The squad leader with a straight face replied “No SGM, smoking soldiers is against unit policies. I’m just reminding this soldier about the importance of weapon’s security. The SGM looked at him and just said “Good job, carry on”. The SGM turned the corner and started laughing so hard at what he called “the most ingenious form of corrective training I have ever seen”. Priceless.
@18 – You’re right. If the “Microwave” or “Bitch Ridge” could talk, they would have some great stories to tell.
IRT the commanders letter, it’s utter nonsense. I noticed how he dictates to his NCO’s how to take corrective action by giving nonsensical scenarios, coupled with the fact that the NCO should stop corrective training once the discrepancy has been eliminated. Really?! If you have a subordinate who’s a smart ass, talks back or otherwise disobey’s orders with the eye roll, then that usually gets followed up with a wall to wall counseling and an offense report for the 1stSgt or SgtMaj to see.
When I was a Gunnery Sergeant, I was at one of the exchanges on Pendleton with one of my colleagues. We both noticed a young Marine at the checkout line in PT gear (you Marines know where this is going…). My compadre got to him before I did and told the kid “Get the (expletive) outta here. You know you’re not allowed to be in here dressed like that!” (All this while the Marine was trying to make his purchase, which was cut short). On top of that, the exchange was chock full of NCO’s who were there before we were and didn’t say a fuggin’ thing to this kid. A WO2 approached us after the Marine frantically left and chided both us of for “embarassing” the Marine. I told him “Good – at least he won’t get caught in the impact area again” and my buddy reminded him there may have been a time in his career where he might have (or should have) done the same thing. All the Sgt’s and Cpl’s standing around learned a little something, too I hope.
The most best corrective training I seen was when my Squad Leader made a Soldier play a game of baseball, every pitch, swing, and position. He had to be the pitcher, then run and act like he was the batter, then the catcher, then the first basement, etc. for an entire 9 innings.
This doesn’t look all that much different then what we had to do in the 90’s. I had to get creative in my corrective training methods and the biggest person who suffered was my wife. The part about the supervisor having to be present meant that often a night out with the spouse would be interrupted while I went to check on the progress of a troops room cleaning, conducting various uniform inspections or simply having to sit around and make sure Joe was doing whatever task assigned to support his transgressions. Yes, I had some soldiers take advantage of that also to make my life miserable.
We then got into a big discussion with the CSM over ‘on the spot correction’ versus ‘corrective training’. Don’t get me started, but this was Clinton and the era of having to attend Consideration of Others classes monthly where we sat around and hurled insults at each other and laughed uproariously at the stupidity of such classes.
oh there’s A LOT more than this.. this COL just gave a BRIEF version of the full extent the army has now cut the balls off of NCOs…. if I can find it I will post the entire memo that I believe is now an AR.
tequila lol i was in during the mid 90s-05….. i still remember being able to koalify certain idiots…. front back goes in man made mudpits behind the company area …. muscle failure pushups….. little man in the woods… etc… it was the 00s that started the downfall atleast to me…
Hate to burst any bubbles but — this policy letter simply restates the law as it has been for a very long time. (At least 10 years, which is the extent of my military experience.) The policy on what constitutes proper “corrective training” is almost word-for-word out of AR 600-20 (I believe it also gets a mention in AR 27-10), and is NOT something new and is NOT an innovation in this colonel’s policy letter. If you search the regs for it, use the phrase “extra training or instruction” – the regs do not use the term “corrective training,” which is a bit of NCO mythology as far as I can tell. That’s right. If the Soldier is late and you “smoke” him for it — for as long as I’ve been in the Army it has been unlawful, and against regulations. Of course, a great many NCO’s do not know this (“Hey, we did it in Basic, so it must be okay at our units!”), and I’m sure there are quite a few who do know it and do it anyway. Now, when I was a defense counsel, if one of my clients came in and said he got unlawful punishment — my usual advice was not to worry about it. The lawful way to punish him is with Article 15 – but, as I told them, sore muscles heal faster than lost rank or bad paper in your OMPF. I only had to complain if the government gave him unlawful punishment AND tried to charge the same infraction at a court-martial — in which case I made sure to get those charges dismissed. (Which could be very easy, as naive NCO’s would not only do unlawful punishments as “corrective training,” but write them down on counseling statements…) P.S. – The “stress cards” thing is a military urban legend; properly debunked at Snopes. P.P.S. – By the way, “shakedown inspections” to find stolen property are also unlawful. A search is not an “inspection,” no matter what euphemisms you use to cover that up, no more than punishment is “corrective… Read more »
@28 monkey fuckers were my personal favorite. Another good one I learned from an old paratrooper is put on K-pot, lie down at the position of attention, chin to chest, and then leave them in that position.
At 11M: I still contend the best way to clean a room is to have all of the furnishings moved outside down 3 flights of stairs so that you don’t have any obstructions. 🙂
P.P.P.S. – If you didn’t gather this, I think the rule should be changed, and “on the spot punishments” should be lawful, because they’re more effective for a lot of troops than the current regime. Then again, I’m open to the return of flogging. But regardless of what you think, if you don’t like this letter, your quarrel is with the Secretary of the Army (and quite a few Secretaries before him – I don’t know how many), and not with this colonel.
Shakedown inspections happened ALL the time at the barracks at Drum. Like, everything you owned, dumped in the middle of your floor shake downs. And they’d never find anything.
Tequila i was ALL ABOUT GI PARTIES… you want to live like a slob… thats cool…. TAKE EVERYTHING OUT.. but it in the breezeway exactly how it looks in your room… now get one of your buddies to guard it and go clean your room…i had one soldier i did that to pretty much every month for the 2 yrs I was in 1CD… btw.. jesus.. 1CD is a miserable freaking place
put*
lol shakedown inspections became … health and welfare checks
tequila oh i agree… i was all about GI parties… had one guy at 1CD when i was there that i had to give a GI party to atleast once a month…. kid was just a natural slob
Alberich oh i have no quarrels with the COL… i just said he touched on barely the tip of that shit iceberg
My first “learning” session was the “right rock”. During initial drill training the Drill Sergeant called left flank and I ever so slightly feigned to the right and…he saw me, even though I caught myself. He stopped the platoon, had me go to the grass and get a BFR. Since as he shouted I didn’t know my left from my right I was to carry that “right rock” in my left hand at all times except such times as I needed both hands at which time it would be at my left boot. It was on the left side of my bunk at night, the left side of the crapper, the left side of my chair at mess, by my left foot in the shower. For two days it was my pet. He didn’t have to ask at the end of the two days, though he did, if I had learned my left from my right. Was that embarrassing, yes. Did it hurt my pride, yes. Did he care, no, because he taught me and every man in the platoon a lesson. I never forgot the whole left, right business again. If this even simple example of helping a troop learn a lesson becomes hazing what the hell will things come to! This Col. is obviously like one of the many “touchy-feely” types of officers I met in service. Always thinking they knew better than the NCO’s they gave charge with training the troops, keeping them in line, on time and always at the ready in every respect. If this becomes a broad Army policy it is the soldier learning who will suffer most. In training and then in combat.
None of this is new, those regs have been around awhile. It was always how hard and fast the CO would hold to that exact letter of the Law. If he was strait to the numbers a NCO just had to be creative. A SeaBee with a dirty rifle did not get a class. They were sent to the Armory to assist the Gunners Mate clean weapons, never had a repeat offender. Lousy uniform, time for a full Sea Bag Fashion show, or the time tested Sea Bag inspection on the Grinder. The thing that is the worst part about this is that the CO thought he had to give NCO’s specific examples. Set your policy, distro it thoughout the Command and let your Leaders Lead. End of Story.
Oh, forgot. Troop is late, guess who is the NEW Muster Petty Officer.
This PC horseshit will continue untill the next war. Then, as usual, we will get our ass handed to us. The army will take the necessary corrective actions. The cream will then rise in the NCO ranks. The NCOs will do what they always do, make things happen, accomplish the mission and take care of their people. You won’t hear the NCO complain or whine. The war will then be over, and the REMF NCOs, those that spent their time dodging deployments and troop leading assignments, will again rise. Their first action will be to purge the ranks of the combat leader types. Their second action will be to initiate nitnoid, stupid “policies”. This will be the time that try mens souls. The army does this after every major conflict.
trapper thats pretty much going on now. I have tons of old army buddies that are telling me horror stories on how the army is finding new an inventive ways to get rid of the pre 00 soldiers… apparently they want a kinder, gentler, more understanding army….
Oh and I forgot a favorite. sitting against the wall in the “Captain’s Chair” or for worse offenders, the “General’s Chair”.
is 1369 going to be the new MOS designator for the Commissars that are coming soon?
I still have life/limb/eyesite today because when I was growing up in the Army my NCO’s were not afraid to hurt my feelings when I did something stupid. Did I hate it at the time?yes. Did I wish it wasn’t happening at the time?yes. Am I thankfull for it today? Your damn right I am.
@46 Thank you and well said. I was a better soldier for the sake of hard and I mean hard, but smart, NCOs.
Pain and humility create discipline.
Works.
This shit wasn’t part of my Army. When Top or any of the senior NCOs barked, you were ramrod straight before your boots hit the ground. Plus, I don’t know a man in my unit, including some of the junior officer types, that wouldn’t pee a little when Top came around the corner looking to kick someone’s ass. The thing is; when Top was barking at you, you had it coming. He was tough as nails, but fair and equal with his praise or ass chewing, whichever you were getting. If you screwed the pooch, you would have rather delt with a firing squad than be standing in front of Top.
#37, there are such things as real “health and welfare inspections” — those are authorized by (of all things) the Military Rules of Evidence. But if something’s been stolen and the commander suddenly decides “this is a great time for a health and welfare check!” to find the evidence — it’ll be treated as a search, and an unlawful search at that. (Which is why commanders should call their servicing trial counsel when these legally significant brainwaves visit them.)