Benghazi; about that “problem of time and distance” thing
According to Bloomberg, Gregory Hicks, now the interim ambassador to Libya, said in testimony to Congress that he repeatedly asked for air cover for the besieged consulate on September 11th last year and his requests were ignored. When the Libyans offered to fly four special forces soldiers to the site of the attack in a C-130 aircraft, they were denied permission to board by someone in their command – an event which stands in stark contrast to Leon Panetta’s statement while he was Secretary of Defense, that the administration was hindered by “time and distance”.
Hours after the initial assault that killed Stevens and one of the other Americans, Hicks said, the Libyan military offered to transport the special forces unit from an air base near Tripoli to Benghazi aboard a C-130 transport. They were ordered not to board the plane by U.S. commanders, he said.
“We fully intended for those guys to go, because we had already essentially stripped ourselves of our security presence, or our security capability to the bare minimum,” Hicks said.
Hicks told committee investigators he was informed by the unit’s commander that “they were on their way to the vehicles to go to the airport to get on the C-130 when he got a phone call from” commanders and was told “‘you can’t go now, you don’t have authority to go now.’ And so they missed the flight.”
As events unfolded, the C-130 didn’t arrive until after a second attack on a CIA annex in Benghazi that killed the other two Americans.
Our buddy, Gateway Pundit reports that Tyrone Woods called for air support which went unanswered. Even though Woods and his team had the capability to direct fire from aircraft accurately to their intended target with laser designators;
The presence of laser capability on the roof of the CIA annex confirms what Fox News sources that night in Benghazi originally said, which is that they had laser capability and for 5 hours and 15 minutes were wondering where the usual overhead air support was, especially since, according to this source, they radioed from the annex beginning as early as midnight asking for it.
But, we’ll see what happens to come out during testimony today.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Terror War
As a contractor doing the same work as these guys that died do, it saddens me that the people I protect and work for are willing to let my ass hang out in the wind. The worst part of this has been Hillary’s words “What does it matter now!?” and white house’s assmouth stating “Benghazi happened a long time ago.”.
What I cannot make sense of is the motivation behind denying protection and coverage to the Benghazi staff in the first place.
No one is addressing that question: What was the reason for NOT protecting those people?
I want an answer for that question, because it has bothered me from Day One, starting back in September last year.
Who decided to let this happen, and why?
Panetta’s excuse of “time and distance” ignores the fact that the Administration had plenty of time to protect the American diplomats if only their pleas for protection had been addressed in time instead of being ignored.
Okay, it seems that the four Green Berets would not have arrived in time to assist, but if Jones had gotten the air support that he requested, he may have been able to disrupt the attack long enough for help to arrive or even repeled the attack. Even without air support, the two ex-SEALS put up a helluva fight, add four Green Berets and things might have turned out differently. Some pathetic REMFs are responsible for abandoning our ambassador and his staff and leaving them to die. Disgusting.
I hope people burn for this. At this point, I am uncaring if said burning is figurative or literal.
I’m not one for conspriacy theories, but I can’t get this one possibility out of my head.
Right before Sept. 11, 2012, President Obama ordered drone strike in Yemen that killed 29 people.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/12733-29-killed-by-us-drones-in-yemen-in-one-week
In Islamic justice, if you kill my goat, I get to kill your goat. If you kill my servant, I get to kill your servant.
I think Obama, the one who bows to Saudi kings, offered up these American lives to balance out the losses in Yemen the week before.
I know, I know. Black helicopter stuff, but this President is an odd duck who negotiates with the Taliban and has a weird sense of justice. I can’t think of any other reason why the military would have been ordered to stand down other than President Obama was sacrificing his servants to make amends with people whom he has publicly declared “victims” of America’s superpower status.
What comes out of today’s testimony? Panetta kisses his pardon, and plays golf. Hillary kisses her pardon, and wonders who among Obama’s anti-Clintonistas will start the pile-on, who must be bought off, and who must be destroyed before 2016.
As for Obama, he gets to campaign on immigration, because STFU H8RZ!
Anything new?
Laser designate Congress, Hillary, Panetta and you-know-who.
@#8: A “Capitol” idea, my good man …
@#7: Look for a couple more “It was a suicide but he bled dry somewhere else” Vince Fosters to appear before the twunt Hildybeast tries a run for office.
It’s on C-SPAN today.
Beginning at 11:30 a.m. today, the House Oversight on Government Reform Committee will hear whistleblowers tell the real story of what occurred.
You may not see much coverage of the hearing in the mainstream media, but C-SPAN will broadcast it, and certain media outlets likely will show excerpts.
Here’s a link to that Committe’s schedule.
http://oversight.house.gov/
Here’s a link to C-SPAN: http://www.capitolhearings.org/
@6 – The willful act of doing what you suggested comes under treason in the “giving enemies aid and comfort” part of the Constitution.
Here it is: The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
Whatever the reason was behind denying support to the Benghazi staff, willfully denying it resulted in their deathhs, which could have been prevented.
I can’t go any further with this. It makes me too angry. I’m going to go write drivel now, that and mow the lawn.
@ #2: It helps if you can suspend reality for a moment and look at all this from the perspective of those so wedded to an ideology that they are simply unable see or process anything which conflicts with their version of reality. Sound a bit like an either extremely immature perspective or insanity? Well, yes. But they also wield a lot of power and that is why they are so dangerous. They are able to literally sacrifice human beings to their agenda.
I just dont know…throwing good men into a situation that we didnt have a full grasp on sounds like a recipe for another Moagadishu. How much intell was available? You guys know you cant throw men in without a good intell brief first. How good a grasp of the tactical situation did we have at the time? I am sure there is a cover up in this somewhere, but I dont think it is where we are looking.
And further, where was this outrage and righteous indignation when Americans were killed at embassies and counsulates during the last Presidency? Where were the cries for vengance then?
I am always amazed at how liberals howl about the transgressions of everyone who holds a different opinion than they do while being absolutely silent about the transgressions of those with whom they agree….especially as the liberals favorite administrations usually leave dead Americans in their wake….
Once again I have trouble understanding, Janet Reno — authorizes a search warrant assault that leaves 80 folks dead…no liberals screaming for her resignation…
John Ashcroft offers an opinion that dunking some terrorists in a bucket of water is okay and liberals want him imprisoned for torture, but no Americans die during the process….
Eric Holder — authorizes a crazy gun transfer to known criminal organizations American and Mexican citizens and LEOs die, no liberals screaming for his resignation…
Panetta, Clinton, et al: too busy to read the memos from Libya because they get a million memos a week and they can’t comprehend the ones from Libya might bear more interest than the ones from say, Luxembourg…consequently 4 Americans including an ambassador are dead no liberals screaming for anyone’s resignation…
It would be nice if there was a little consistency in all of this from the liberals who seem to feel they hold some sort of moral high ground over the rest of the great unwashed masses….
I’ve come to expect zero integrity from the liberal side of the discussion on every point they bring to the table, I expect this investigation to go absolutely no where as well…I hope to be proven wrong.
Jumpmaster: Not sure I’m buying “couldn’t get there in time”. NAS Sigonella is approx 410 NM from Benghazi. That’s somewhat over 1 1/2 hours flight time for a C-130 (cruise approx 260knots). Fast movers carrying laser-guided weapons could have gotten there substantially faster. And Tripoli is even closer to Benghazi.
If we didn’t have someone on alert and ready to go, shame on us. Even then, I think forces could have gotten to Benghazi in time to support the folks on the ground during the 2nd attack. As I recall, it happened some hours after the first one.
@13: Please provide your evidence of said consulate and embassy deaths in the previous administration; i.e. “so and so ambassador was left swinging in the breeze while Bush slept”. Specifics, boy, bring on the specifics.
@VOV – I agree wholeheartedly. In respect to Janet Reno, not only was Waco a debacle for both the DOJ and AG’s office, but the ATF commander on the ground had his head up his ass, precipitated by the problem of having poor strategy and largely due to his ignoring the FBI’s negotiating team.
#11 Ex-PH2: that part of the Constitution has been considered dead because of the unconstitionality of the Alien & Sedition Act. Otherwise there’d be a lot of dead Prognazis.
#14 VOV: Think like our enemies:
Prognazis love America, they hate Americans. We have electricity, indoor plumbing, healthcare above the level of shamanism, and money and luxury goods.
Prognazis love money, but hate free market capitalism. They prefer monarchial socialism – Prognazis practice neo-Feudalism with a hierarchy of haves and have-nots. The have-nots are generally non-white males and all females.
In their love for America, hatred of Americans, and Feudal allegiance to their lords, Prognazis do as they do because they want all that is luxurious, without having to compete with those icky conservatives and non-whites.
@17: Don’t forget that it was a mission that didn’t have to happen. They had intel that he went to Burger King on Wednesdays at approx. the same time each visit; why didn’t they roll him up on the way there or the way home? Why was it necessary for them to go charging into a heavily armed area with their usual level of bravado thinking that everyone was just going to lay down because the ATF was there. Arrogance and self delusion led to the fiasco and the loss of some fine folks on both sides.
Idiots. Useful idiots to the lefty agenda.
Hear yea, hear yea! Let it be known that many of us (here and elsewhere) hold every civil servant, politician, political appointee, and every other human being collecting a dime of taxpayer money accountable for their actions, their use of our money, their decisions (or lack thereof), and the results of their attention or lack of attention to their use of our money without regard to any political affiliations they may have, who they might or might not have voted for, their mother’s maiden name, nation of origin, or any other detail other than how they do their job.
Do your job, do it well, or hit the road. It doesn’t matter to most of us who you are or who you’ve done or who you wish to do in the future, as long as those are consensual relationships. Just do your job or expect to be held accountable for not doing so.
Persons who are chronologically adult but behave like 3 year olds are beyond tiresome. Grown up or shut up, fools. The grown ups are talking here.
MAYBE B. Hussein Øbama & Co. will issue another statement about it, after his next round of golf!
@13, WTF are you talking about??
Guess I will watch it on the computer because they are not broadcasting it on the regular CSPAN channels. Idiots.
@22, He doesn’t have a valid reason for this administrations failure so it’s the typical “b-b-b-b-but something bad happened under Bush too” defense.
What I want to know is the name of the man or woman attached to the voice that stopped the Special Operators from boarding that C-130. That will be the start to unravel this whole mess. Who gave the order to stand down to that team?
I think this whole situation was a product of an administration that does not know how to make a life and death decision in real time because there is no one who has ever done that. They have lived their entire lives in the theoretical world of academia and when it gets to the point where someone says, “We need to send these assests NOW because folks will die otherwise,” that they freeze up and ask for more information. They wait too long trying to game out all the possibilities of what could happen if they make the wrong decision, and then it becomes too late. What was that old quote attributed to Patton: “A good plan, violently executed now, is better than the perfect plan next week.” Hell, even in the manufacturing world, people have to quickly make real-time decisions that can cost tons of money, but there is no one even with that type of experience up there. To my thinking, this is a case of pure incompetence bred of incomprehensible inexperience.
PN, I want to know who gave the ‘no-go’ myself.
DaveO, it’s not dead. It’s simply ignored. Oh, yeah, while I’m at it, this act of abandoning embassy staff who had repeatedly asked for help ahead of time counts as sedition. Sedition is another word treason. Go ahead, change the labels all you want to. They still end up in the same section of Roget’s Thesaurus. Lest you misunderstand, nothing in the Constitution is dead unless repealed. It’s ignored for the sake of convenience.
What was Newton’s 3rd law of motion? For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You think it applies only to the mechanics of physics? Hah! think again.
Very clever fellow, Isaace Newton. The only thing he couldn’t figure out was how to turn base metal into gold. The Babylonians and Egyptians knew how to do it: electroplating gold onto another metal (silver was used = vermeil) with an acid battery. Copper cylinder containing an iron rod in an acid or electrolytic bath, in a clay cylinder with as asphalt stopper and a pair of electrodes. Perfectly good way to plate finely powdered gold onto silver.
But I digress. Someone told me a very long time ago that you can do whatever you want to in life as long as you’re willing to accept the consequences.
I hope this ends the way it should.
So far about half the questioners are pontificating while about half are asking questions of the witnesses. It’s almost as if half the panel wants to continue ignoring the facts while the other half are trying to uncover the truth.
OWB: if I recall correctly, seats on Congressional (Senate and House) committees and panels are usually fairly evenly split by party, with the majority party in the chamber getting the odd seat. That might have something to do with what you’re seeing.
@27 x2 Here’s hoping that these people are finally brought to justice.
OWB: The Democrat almost-half is there to protect Hillary regardless of what is or is not true. This is about 2016 and Democrat rule until at least January 2025 – as Elijah Cummings reminded the witnesses, dying is a part of living. Which I guess means Ambassador Stevens and the other 3 Americans were due to die and it’s no big deal because more people die to racist lynchings daily. Or something like that.
@30 Justice is dead with this bunch. I just hope we get the truth.
They wait too long trying to game out all the possibilities of what could happen if they make the wrong decision
Which is why Valerie Jarrett shot down going after OBL three times, and almost succeeded the fourth time, but still it took Obama 16-18 hours to give the go-ahead, and then only with assurances that if shit went south, he wouldn’t get splattered.
I watched that bullshit as long as I could stand it. That Clay dude talked like an old sergeant major I had a long time ago – and he was just as oblivious. The State Department has already stated for the record that their failings in Benghazi weren’t because of a lack of resources, but Clay is yammering on about how the GOP Congress slashed resources – taking his talking points from Mother Jones.
I almost wish they could be questioned when they throw shit like that against the wall…”Uh, Congressman? How can the GOP slash budgets when no federal budget has been passed in almost 4 1/2 years now?”
It’s getting to the point where you literally COULD take 435 random names out of the phone books of America and they’d do a better job than the people who are there now.
@19 – Ain’t arguing that. I agree. In any case, I pray this gets resolved and heads roll. Until then, I’ll just stay in a generally pissed off mood.
And how can military spending in Libya be a problem for the GOP Congress?
The President violated the War Powers Act by never reporting to the Congress that the military was sent to Libya to remove Khaddafi.
Congress can’t fund wars that Congress hasn’t authorized.
@34 – The GOP slashed resources? When did that happen?
And what does that have to do with telling a crew standing by to NOT go and help? Those resources had already been paid for.
This is hogwash.
@38 Ex-PH2, you ride horses, right? Remember the old rule to never let the horse realize he’s bigger than you? That’s what’s happened with Congress. They’ve learned they can dodge and lie and evade and delay, and eventually the situation will go away without any consequences to any of them for anything. They’ve learned they don’t have to answer for anything anymore. And so, they don’t.
I keep hoping that someone, somebody with no seat to lose or gain, but still operating at the Congressional level, will just have enough hutzpah to say something close to ‘liar, liar, pants on fire’ to one of these clowns, or, for that matter, decide to stand on his two hind legs and say ‘yes, we let this happen and here: ____________ is why’.
I’m too confrontational to sit still for this. I went off and paid my license plate fee, got some gas, went to the store and got a bag of oranges. I went to Sammie’s and got a kielbasa w/everything, fries and a large soda, and got a wink from the owner. He’s cute. I felt much happier.
Then I come back home and I find that no one can call these jerks on the carpet and make them cry and beg for mercy the way I would. The real danger to the Dumbocraps and their followers is that this will make their entire side of the fence look as stupid and self-centered as they truly are, and they’ll lose their jobs. It would serve them right.
I am so fed up. But I still have that coal of fire going, and I’m keeping it alive until this is over.
You’re right, PN.
I think the people who’ve been in Congress for many years mostly don’t give a crap because they haven’t been called to account in a very, very long time.
We can call them to account. It takes a lot of us, but we can do it.
Jodi Arias verdict drama and 3 kidnapped girls in Cleveland have absorbed the attention of the media…sorry Benghazi, but to the back of the bus you go.
@43 Isn’t it interesting how the dog whistle gets blown every time Benghazi comes back up?
That actually was a pretty interesting hearing. What they decide to do next could become even more interesting.
It is getting some notice on the local ABC station.
Also, remember that unraveling a tangled mess does take time. There is no instant gratification involved.
PN and Ex-PH2: most of Congress is untouchable. The practice of gerrymandering essentially guarantees many Congresscritters never get held accountable. Recent examples are Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters.
Gerrymandering is the meth of politicos – Florida Republicans gerrymandered Alan West out of his district. They’d rather have Alan Grayson representing Florida.
Gerrymandering is likely the one power reserved for the states under the 10th Amendment that all political parties and people agree should remain with the state. Unless the districts are redrawn in those states that are considered the Deep South and then AG Holder’s corrupt DOJ weighs in.
Fox News reporting even Dems want to see more documents…oh yeah this ain’t going away anytime soon. The Emperor is going to be very distracted and taking even more vacays & campaign trips than usual (get the heck out of town). Really sickeing that Hillbully was part of a research committee to impeach Tricky Dick.
Also, how the heck did ret. Admiral & fmr CJCS Mike Mullen and Thomas Pickering do an Accountability Review Board w/o interviewing Clinton? Both refused interviews today. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Funny thing is, Devtun, that the documents the Dems were wanting to see were those they claimed they did not already have or had access to because they were supposedly only given to Reps. It was clearly explained to them that the docs they wanted had already been given to them or that they could get them from some file room in the basement of some building, just as the Reps had done. It was a hilarious exchange.
After that, the Dems could hardly say that they were not in favor of full release of docs. One tried, but it did not work.
I guess JohnE is burning the midnight oil trying to find the evidence we asked him to provide. I think he was just mouthing what the leftists want their useful idiots to say, because as I was driving home, lst night, I heard a caller on a radio talk show say the very same damn thing, plus a few other things and the host asked the same things we did; provide examples. Of course, the caller started spitting and sputtering and didn’t know how to reply, so I believe that the DNC hasn’t provided rebuttal points, yet.