Idiots in the gun control debate
Yeah, I’ve read some real stupid shit in teh interwebz today in regards to gun control, but this one just deserved a public answer. It’s from some shithole called Balloon Juice written by a guy named John Cole who explains that he was supposedly in the 11th ACR stationed at Camp Doha between the wars with Iraq;
So why am I telling you this? Because in the middle of one of the most dangerous regions in the world, even with clear Rules of Engagement, every time I went on gate duty, there was a piece of tape over my ammo clip on my M-16 and M1911 .45. Why? Because the most heavily armed military in the world did not want accidental shootings. If a situation arose, I would have to eject my ammo clip, remove the tape, and reinsert and work the action before I could fire.
This was in a combat zone. Yet I have spent the last two fucking days dealing with armchair commandos telling me they need unlimited firepower to be safe in… Connecticut.
If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.
So, because he was such an incompetent boob that he needed to have his ammo taped in his magazine, gun nuts are pussies – yeah, I don’t see the connection either. Besides, he calls them “ammo clips” – who, with more than a day in the Army, calls box magazines “ammo clips”? So, I’m thinking that John Cole was a cook, or anything except someone his unit would allow to guard something. And, I’m pretty sure that between the Iraq Wars, the Army was using 9mm Barettas and not the M1911A1 .45 cal pistol.
And the reason any magazines were taped wasn’t to prevent the ammunition from loading. The Army did that when ammunition was passed between guard shifts for accountability. But, of course, any dingus who thought they’re called “ammo clips” wouldn’t know that.
So why do I call Balloon Juice a shit hole? Because all of their writers are gun grabbing facists, apparently. They write shit like this;
Bernard Finel: If it were in my power, I’d seize every fucking firearm in the country other than revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles and melt them all down.
mistermix: If you must own an AR-15 or Bushmaster or AK-47, it should stay locked in your personal gun cabinet at the range, never to leave. If you change ranges, a bonded courier can take it to the new one. The same is true of the high-capacity clips for your Glock, your 100-round drum magazines, and all the other expensive toys that let you bang off a couple of dozen rounds in a minute. Yeah, that’s expensive and a nuisance. So are the laws surrounding other potentially unsafe pursuits.
Mistermix, my Glock uses high capacity magazines, not clips. The ammunition for my M4 is in clips until I put the bullets in the magazine. If you’re going to talk the language of gun control, learn the language of guns first.
After posting the Wikipedia entry for events leading up to the UK’s gun ban, Imani Gandy (ABL) posts this;
Am I suggesting that we ban handguns? No, not really. I am suggesting we have a sensible discussion about gun-control laws that leads to, as President Obama put it, meaningful action.
If you weren’t suggesting that we ban guns, why did you have to tell us that the UK banned guns because of an incident somewhat similar to Sandy Hook? Every leftist gun grabbing fascist on the internet is talking about “a sensible discussion”, but their discussion of a sensible discussion is senseless.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists
Another great reason for the tape would be to keep the Kuwaiti sands out.
This sounds like all the making of a VERY cool story!
Balloon Knot should probably put a strip of tape over his mouth.
Too much stupid for me…I need a beer.
Just brace yourself, the talk is nowhere near over. And make no mistake, when the sensible discussion about guns happens…. Everyone there will think that clip and mag are interchangeable, and that a Bushmaster AR is somehow different/more deadly than any other AR.
Think back to the sheriff in FL after the AWB that somehow was able to demonstrate to Cnn that a non compliant 7.62x39mm and a AWB compliant 7.62x39mm AK were different in destructive power.
A sensible discussion, much like ’94 AWB will not have anything sensible and will be filled with ideas that make these idiots feel good but accomplish nothing.
But doesn’t that Bushmaster two-two-three rifle have grooves cut into the barrel? You know, to make the bullet spin and go faster and kill more people? I remember hearing that once.
If one purchases a weapon and has to store it, in perpetuity, at a range, then one doesn’t own that weapon, the range does. Oh, that’s the whole point? Thanks for clearing that up. Idiots!!
Does that mean that one can purchase a car, but it has to be stored at the dealer? How about knives? Baseball bats? Hammers?
@4, No it is because the bullet tumbles when it leaves the barrel and rips bigger holes in one. (I hate the name Bushmaster, reminds me of snakes)
@6 Close enough. I was trying to reference that reporter who didn’t know dick about weaponry and made that comment after one of the last mass shootings. Dammit.
I also hate the Bushmaster name. Reminds me of being at work.
Last time my unit had tape on their magazines was Fort Knox, Ky, in OSUT training. When a Drill Sergeant caught one of the offenders (who feared ADing in a clearing barrel… there was no ND term then), he rounded up the entire platoon. We also had a guy huffing markers. Drill sergeant crushed both bad ideas in one afternoon. Low crawl across the pit, because you can’t shoot with your ammo taped down. Now about face, and bayonet maneuvers back across the pit. But you’re high on markers, the foe wasn’t even there! So about face, and low crawl across the pit, because you can’t shoot with your ammo taped down… repeat ad nauseum. Nobody made it out of basic thinking tape was acceptable. I doubt any idiot made it to a deployment thinking so.
Ok, Jonn, guys…I’m going to come clean, I’ve been less than honest with you all.
I do tape my clips, in fact it is taped right now:
http://tinypic.com/r/6901ls/6
I hate Bushmaster b/c they make crappy AR clones that miss-inormed shoppers buy when they should have saved their money and got a Rock River.
So that’s what the zero-defect Army did in Kuwait back in the 90s, huh? Sounds plausible, but in no way relevant to policy. Suffice to say no tape went on any of my mags during either of my two deployments. The question was whether you were “Red” “Amber” or “Green.”
My stomach turns too over the mindless asshats that we’ll hear pontificate for the next year of so on this.
Banning guns will never stop the psycho assholes out there. Just look at all the gang members with illegal weapons….. It never stopped them that you have to have a class 3 license to own full auto weapons….
Camp Doha was a combat zone? We are There was this accidental disaster that blew up a bunch of vehicles and injured some soldiers after desert storm. I understand that it was considered to be constantly ready in case Saddam decided to try again – however remote that possibility was – but a combat zone between the wars? Potentially, I guess. Am I wrong? Educate me.
Yeah sensible discussions like this:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/white-house-gun-control-petition-quickly-surpasses-required-signature-count/
Makes complete sense, something happens so lets repeal an amendment. Why don’t we just go for the entire bill of rights. Then the Government can keep us safe from everything.
@12 No it is not. Doha, Arifjan, Udari (Camp Buehring) were and are all Pougevills
OFF TOPIC
Okay, here’s my problem. There’s a Zales jewelry commercial with a catchy tune that I love. I checked it out and the song is “If It Wasn’t for You” by Various Cruelties. My problem is, does this mean I’m turning gay?
@15…
Depends. Just remember, it isn’t gay if you don’t make eye contact.
JP: or if it’s Connery. (smile)
@16. Okay, I’m safe–unless TSO likes it too. If so, I’m changing my wardrobe.
@17. You know you take your lead from Ranger Up videos. (“Box of pox?”) are
@18. Yipes. That was supposed to be, You know you’re in trouble when you take your lead from Ranger Up videos.”
So is Balloon Juice’s John Cole another Counterfeit Cavalry trooper?
My understanding of the 11th ACR is that it was transferred to be Opfor at NTC following the end of Desert Storm. According to Wikipedia, the 11th ACR:
– Inactivated 15 October 1993 – 15 March 1994 in Germany
– Activated 16 October 1994 (less 3d and 4th Squadrons; the Air Defense Artillery Battery; and the Howitzer Batteries, 1st and 2d Squadrons) at Fort Irwin, California
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Armored_Cavalry_Regiment_(United_States)
Cole’s window is May to October 1991.
DaveO: according the regiment’s history provided by the Director of the NTC/11th ACR museum, the 11th ACR was deployed to take over the “Defense of Kuwait” – in June 1991, or over 3 months after hostilities in Iraq had ended. They remained there until Sep 1991, at which time they redeployed to Germany. Smaller elements from the 11th ACR (about 200 soldiers) were deployed to augment the 3rd ACR during DS/DS and served admirably. Additionally, the 11th ACR provided an Aviation task force ISO PROVIDE COMFORT beginning in Apr 1991.
http://blackhorse.org/regimenthistory.cfm
Bottom line: it’s possible the dipstick is telling the truth about being with the 11th ACR in the Persian Gulf. But IMO he’s stretching the hell out of things calling duty along the Kuwait/Iraq border in Jun-Sep 1991 being “in one of the most dangerous regions of the world”. By then, it was pretty damn safe to be there as a soldier; absolutely no one was shooting at US forces there. The only significant issues during their deployment were accidental (e.g., the motorpool fire caused by a malfunctioning vehicle heater, which did injure about 50 troops when it went out of control and ammunition began cooking off).
I do, in fact, own a semi-automatic rifle that feeds from “clips”.
It’s called a Garand.
All the rest of my rifles feed from magazines.
@17 Id let that Scottish fucker have his way with me.
Gee, when the news people were talking about a Bushmaster, I thought they were talking about that two-handled weedcutter on steroids in the TV infomercials. You know — you can use it to clear out saplings and overgrown areas. But then I remembered that’s a Bushhog. So then I thought maybe a Bushmaster was the very poisonous snake that lives in the jungles of South America. And how would you shoot people with a snake? But, no, it’s a gun that Bass Pro Shops doesn’t sell, which is why I didn’t recognize it. It sounds like something that is puffed off as being a “real gun” to people who don’t know the difference. This is why I prefer the crossbow, aside from the fact that you don’t normally use it to kill people. You hunt with it. I have a lot of clips in a little dish on my desk. I have more in a box in its cubby hole. Should I tape them? There are more copycats to come, like the kids at Barrington HS in Barrington, IL who were reported to school officials when they were overheard discussing bringing a gun to the after-game school dance, which was canceled. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/barrington_area/chi-barrington-high-school-dance-cancelled-after-rumors-20121215,0,419869.story And there’s the idiot in Cedar Lake, IN, who threatened to set his wife on fire and then take some of his 47 guns to the nearby school and kill lots of people. http://news.msn.com/us/ind-man-with-47-guns-arrested-after-school-threat The looneytunes are just looking for their chance to hit the limelight. So my question now is, if it’s all about guns, then why was there no copycat activity in 1966 after Charles Whitman killed so many people from his vantage point in the clock tower at the University of Texas? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman If it’s all about guns and access to them, then why was there no copycat activity after Brenda Spencer shot up a schoolyard full of children in 1979, because she hated Mondays? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer If it’s all about guns, then why was there no copycat crime following the rampage by Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate in 1958? They started with… Read more »
What about this part:
“Alpha troop (my unit), would go run border missions in Iraq”
I’m asking because I was probably single digits and the time and have no clue what went on during those years, aside from the basic gist of the Gulf War.
Hmm. A Cav troop who says “clips” instead of magazines? Claims to have carried .45 pistols, when Berettas were actually the carried sidearm?
Kuwait “war zone”? Really, went through Kuwait, coming and going into and out of Iraq many, many times. It was considered R & R. Camp Doha is a dirty, boring, hot place, but about the only thing you could die from there is boredom, the shits, or some pogue who tapes his ammo, says “clips” and throws the F bomb around having an ND.
It really establishes toughness in a vet to use the F bomb gratuitously and call people names (not to their faces)-chicks dig that.
Any bets that ass hat wasn’t Combat Arms? My deployment with 34th ID, scouts, mortars and infantry did the patrols and missions. (Other Combat Arms along, too)
Personnel on guard duty were there because they were not Combat Arms trained, were too afraid to leave the wire, were not trust-worthy, physically ill or injured, or disciplinary cases.
I realize that is not always the case, just sounds like some support guy trying to sound tough. Does come across as a Class A libtard and hand-wringing whiny little bitch though.
Believe it or not, John Cole used to be a conservative. Many, many years ago, I used to frequent Balloon Juice and enjoy the commentary. Then he lost his damned mind and is now a raving lunatic whose head is filled with balloon juice and unicorn farts. He’s just another filthy, liberal totalitarian, intent on controlling everyone and every thing. Retards attract retards, so the quality of his commenters is dismal, similar to the regression that happened after Chuckie Johnson went full-strength progtard at Little Green Footballs. You can safely ignore anything produced by these filthy leftists.
If you weren’t suggesting that we ban guns, why did you have to tell us that the UK banned guns because of an incident somewhat similar to Sandy Hook?
Posted by Jonn Lilyea
Yeah, and a lot of good it did in the UK. Great Britain, as a result, ended up having the highest violent crime rate in the world:
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
Britain’s violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.
Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa – widely considered one of the world’s most dangerous countries. …
The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.
In the decade following the party’s election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million – or more than two every minute.
The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:
The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.
In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.
idaho2run: technically, the entire Arabian Peninsula is still designated a “Combat Zone”. It has been since August 1990. That’s why troops serving there get tax bennies for being deployed there.
I’ve been to Kuwait, Qatar, Iraq, and Afghanistan – the first two for a few days each, the latter two for months each. Afghanistan and Iraq were bona fide combat zones where you could indeed get killed via hostile action – either on base or off. The first two? Um, no; on base you were just as safe as you would be on base in CONUS; off base, in most places the same was true. Your biggest risk in either place was getting killed in a traffic accident on the way to/from the airport/airfield at the beginning or end of your tour.
Kuwait/Qatar and most of the rest of the Arabian peninsula other than Yemen should have lost combat zone status in about 1992 IMO, regained it in late 2002 or early 2003, and lost combat zone status again by 2004. But they never did.
Why? Dunno. But I will observe that ARCENT HQ is located in Kuwait and CENTCOM FWD is located in Qatar – or at least they were in 2008. I’m pretty sure they still are.
#30: “Kuwait/Qatar and most of the rest of the Arabian peninsula other than Yemen should have lost combat zone status in about 1992 IMO, regained it in late 2002 or early 2003, and lost combat zone status again by 2004. But they never did.”
That is likely because of the enforcement of the northern and southern no-fly zones, and the occasional destruction of the Iraqi ADA.
Here’s one of the reasons the “idiots in the gun control debate” won’t include the viewpoint of those who see gun control as completely ineffective:
http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-says-mom-of-mentally-ill-son?gt1=50501
The Indiana man who threatens to set his wife on fire when she’s asleep and then take some of his many guns to a nearby school and shoot a lot of people is not a gun nut. He is someone who is out of control.
And let’s remember Jack the Ripper, the one person who committed gruesome crimes and was never caught, but twitted the police about what he was doing through his letters to them. He didn’t use a gun. He used a scalpel.
Jonn, when I was in Kuwait from December 2000 to April 2001, our task force also had the SOP of putting a piece of 100 mph tape over our magazines. It was retarded, but doesn’t necessarily mean that he was considered incompetent. That’s my 2¢. I can’t defend this guy’s position though
Yeah, I saw the 100 mph tape trick, too. On the East German border when we were issued ammo for patrols, but like I wrote above, it wasn’t to keep us from “accidental discharges” like Cole said. It was for accountability so the rounds wouldn’t fall out of the magazines and get lost and we’d go through the gymnastics of trying to find a loose round rolling around in the vehicle somewhere.
There is so much fail in this post I do not know where to begin. First off, I was not required to tape my ammunition because I was a numbnuts, I was required to tape my ammunition because it was regimental policy. We were specifically told the tape (and it was not hundred mile an hour tape or duct tape, but a think green glossy strip of tape) was to prevent accidental shootings and to maintain round accountability. Everyone did it. Not just me. It was policy. And it wasn’t to keep sand out. Think about that for a second for those of you who think it invalidates my argument- the military is so concerned about round accountability that they require trained soldiers to tape their ammo. Compare that to what you want, which is a free fire zone across the continental US. Additionally, the entire time I was in the military, no matter what base I was on, we were not allowed to carry weapons into the PX, the bank, the church, the NCO club, or the mess hall. We would go as a group when in Graf or Hohenfels and one person would sit outside and guard all our UNLOADED weapons. We weren’t even carrying live ammo. Yet on secure military bases, there were “GUN FREE ZONES.” Think on that for a second. Second, I called a magazine a clip because the people on my blog are not soldiers. They mostly would not understand what a magazine was, so I used the common vernacular that more people would understand. Third, it is beyond me why anyone would think I was lying about having an M1911 .45 cal as my service weapon. I was trained on the 9mm at Knox, but when I got to Fulda, sure as shit, they gave me a .45. The first one the gave me rattled so god damned much that I told the armorer that I’m not sure I can throw this POS straight, much less fire it, and was issued a different weapon. I think I still have dents in my ribs… Read more »
I knew you’d come by sooner or later, John Cole. There was tape on your magazine so gravity didn’t swipe your ammo before you handed it off to the next guy. Not for gun control or “accidental discharges” as you claim. And if you have to change the language of the discussion (clips instead of magazines) for your readers, you’re writing for people who don’t know enough to discuss the issue intelligently. And you’re doing them no service by bringing the discussion down to their ignorance. And no one here is claiming they need scary black rifles for hunting. In fact I took my scary black rifles out “not hunting” the other day. I had a ball. I came back with a whole new look on life. I passed some schools on the way and I didn’t shoot them up, either. Today I ordered some more high capacity magazines while I can, because I can. By the way, I’m pretty sure that weapons dealers across the country are having a Merry Christmas this year, thanks to you ideologues and your incessant blather about disarming law abiding Americans like me. If I am an ideologue, it’s because pointy-headed hand-wringers like you made me so. And the worst part of it is that despite your incessant blather, you don’t really care about the deaths of 20 children, what you really care about is how the deaths of 20 children made YOU feel sad. So, like a good little liberal pants wetter, you don’t want to feel that way again, so you target law-abiding Americans so YOU can feel better. So YOU can say YOU did something. regardless of the fact that what you want to do will accomplish nothing in the larger scheme of your intentions. So go back to your ignorant readers and feed them like the chirping little birdies they are with your ignorant blather that you have to dumb down in order for them to understand. How you can sleep at night and shave in the morning, I’ll never understand. But keep your stupid little war stories out of… Read more »
Cole you fraud-the 2nd amendment is about hunting the same way that the first amendment is about playing scrabble. The first time some psycho shoots up a school (or what have you) with shotguns pants pissers like you will be out screaming to grab them up as well. Whatever the military’s policy on carry may or may not be is irrelevant to the rights of free citizens. I intend to defend myself if necessary and I want the most effective tool for the job.
In fact after re-reading a large part of what you wrote it boils down to “I want to not haz a sad” and you want the gubmint to restrict the rights of free citizens to try to accomplish that. No thanks.
Yo, Mr. Balloon Knot
The Founders meant for us to be armed for many reasons, but also to prevent tyranny. Jefferson made this clear. The standard infantry rifle of the day was the musket, for all standing armies at the time. It’s pretty clear the founders wanted us to be armed enough for defense. Instead of whining about “assault” weapons, you should just be happy I’m not seeking out howitzers and M1A1s.
But seriously, what do you think these restrictions will do? Ban assault weapons, then there will be none? Maybe in the hands of law abiding citizens. Criminals will have them. Hell, Mexico has tight gun laws. How’s that working out for them?
Nobody wants to make the US a free fire zone. But overall millions of gun owners never have, never will kill anyone and should not be punished because of what bad people do.
Now, call me a gun nut and a pussy, like you did on your blog. I double dog dare ya.
@35.
“If there are bigger pussies in the world than gun nuts, I don’t know who the fuck they are.”
I’m not sure what a gun nut is. What’s your definition?
I don’t know why people get the idea that just because a gun is black and scary that it can’t be used for hunting. Since you mentioned Bushmaster I’ll link to the Bushy site. These are set up for hunting. In many kinds of hunting, particularly varmint, predator, and hog hunting, it’s advantageous to have a quick second (or more) shot. Just another mischaracterization by anti-gunners.
http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/hunting.asp
“We need to shame gun enthusiasts who put their penis extensions ahead of sensible gun laws that might help keep their fellow citizens alive. We need to make it so have an NRA sticker on your car is as toxic as claiming membership in the KKK.”
John Cole, 15 December 2012
“Yet the same fucking assholes who enable this kind of stuff are now going to tell us all that now is not the time to talk about gun control (lest we “politicize it”) and that we need more guns to keep this from happening again.”
John Cole, 14 December 2012
“If there was any justice in the world, Wayne LaPierre would choke to death on filet mignon at the next NRA fundraiser.”
John Cole 14 December 2012
“At some point, you might just wonder if maybe the military had a reason for not turning Benghazi into fucking My Lai village.”
John Cole 26 October 2012
On the Florida Zimmerman case:
“Is there some sort of catch and release program down in Florida? Unarmed black minors are off limits, but unarmed black adults are fair game for cowboy wanna-be cops who want to play with their guns?
“You fucking shot him to death for the crime of walking while black in your neighborhood.”
John Cole, 20 April 2012
John Cole is a raging lunatic.
@35 “If that makes me an idiot or an ideologue, so be it”. Well, Cole, judging by what AirCav has exerpted from your blog, I’d have to say that you are, indeed, an idiot and an ideologue.
So, let’s play a game. A gun nut is at the school when the shooter arrives. The gun nut pulls a firearm and dispatches the shooter before he takes two steps toward the classroom.
Now, let’s change the game. Another fellow, let’s call him John, is visiting the school when the shooter arrives. He is powerless to do anything. He is defenseless. He runs. The shooter does what the actual shooter did. John is glad that he had no gun. More guns is no answer.
Air Cav-yeah, I love that one. Point out that maybe a man has a duty to fight evil and they mock you as a “tuff gai”. Point out that possession of a firearm makes it possible for you to do just that and you are a “pussy”.
Lefties are dishonest to their core.
No, “Baloon Juice”, you had tape on your magazine because you were untrained and your so-called “leadership” didn’t trust you or themselves to have you running around with a live round chambered. And guarding some useless facility in Doha really should embarass you.
Cole: if you never were allowed to carry your weapon into a mess hall (in today’s vernacular, the DFAC) – then you never served in a no-shit combat zone. In Iraq and Afghanistan, one did exactly that – you took your weapon with you to the DFAC. You carried your weapon to the gym, too (if you were on a base big enough to have one and lucky enough to have time to use it). Ditto the PX, to finance (which served as the local bank for cashing checks), and to chapel. And to the shitter. And to your place of duty. And every freaking place else you went. Along with your ammo.
In fact, you carried it to your hooch and slept with the damn thing, too – along with your ammo. About the only time you turned both in in was when you went on R&R.
You kept your ammo with you in untaped magazines, too – sometimes in the weapon, sometimes not, depending on weapons status. Why untaped? Because you just might need to use them pronto, sunshine.
And I wouldn’t swear to it, but I’m almost positive you’re wrong about mess halls and weapons. I seem to remember carrying my weapon into mess halls at both Fort Bragg and Fort Campbell while participating in FTXs during the 1980s on those rare occasions where I was in garrison for a meal due to my duties. That’s been at least 25 years now, so I could be mis-remembering things. But I really don’t think I am.
One last point: your comparison above of the way soldiers are treated vis-a-vis the rest of the US is irrelevant, too. Soldiers are required to follow orders – even stupid ones – provided they’re not unlawful orders (stupid does not equate to unlawful). In most cases, the rest of the populace has much more leeway to do as they please. That’s kinda why we call it a “free society”.