Crusaders sidetracked by Military Religious Freedom Foundation
I know that’s one of TSO’s favorite organizations. I miss him. But anyway, they’ve set their sights on a Marine Corps unit, VMFA-122, that wants to return to it’s roots and recover it’s nickname “The Crusaders” which it had from 1957-2008. They became the “Werewolves” for four years and decided they wanted to own their legacy again. But of course, the MRFFs think that it would be too closely related to Christendom to allow the unit to be called what they want according to MSNBC;
“I don’t know that the Marine Corps could do anything more to fuel the cause of jihad,” said Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a nonprofit organization that advocates church-state separation. “It will directly end up taking lives and maiming members of our military.”
Of course, Mikey, a former Air Force officer and Reagan White House staffer really isn’t for religious freedom. The only religious freedom he supports is atheism. His main enemy is Christendom and anything that is even remotely connected to it. You can look at their website and you won’t find them fighting against any other religion. He’s worried that Christianists will take over the military, like our resident troll, Joe.
As I’ve said numerous times here, I never felt pressure from anyone to attend services or become a member of any denomination, so I think Mikey is just a paranoid nut in the same class as Joe.
“It’s a way for our Marines to draw on the service of the Marines before them, and to make their own history under the same name,” Weigel told the paper. “As the squadron prepared to celebrate its (70th anniversary), my intent was to return the squadron to the Crusader name since 50 of the squadron’s 70 years were under that name. The name change is a reflection of our heritage.”
Mikey should get in one of his time machines and go back and convince the Marines in 1958 to refrain from using the name. I suspect his reception would be somewhat less warm than it is now.
Thanks to Thom for the link.
Category: Military issues
12 years in, and I never felt any pressure to attend any religious service of any faith. Ever.
The most common faith of service members? NRP–No Religious Preference.
Mikey needs to reach down and see if he actually has some balls down there or just a handful of fur. I’m guessing it’s the latter.
So Mikey Whinestein is threatening legal action again, if he doesn’t have his way?
I sure hope the Corp’s leadership, from the Commandant on down has one collective answer to that bit of horse shit:
“Bring it you ambulance chasing little Bitch”.
The only time in 16 years that I felt like I should go to church, was on Sunday mornings in Basic. The Drills couldn’t have cared less if we were going on a holiday cruise to Barbados as long as we go the hell away from them, and they made it clear. I slept in the back pew and didn’t even get struck by lightning. Imagine that.
Because one Marine Corps unit changing its name back to Crusaders is really going to fuel the jihad.
“… I never felt pressure from anyone to attend services or become a member of any denomination…”
Yeah, it’s all about YOU, isn’t it Jonn. YOU’VE never been pressured, so no one has ever been pressured. Well the hundreds and hundreds of servicemen/women who have sought Mikey’s help belie your self-centered notion. Mikey’s the man, and his organization has been scoring some big points lately, with more to come.
Well, Joey, I assume you’ll provide names and dates for those “hundreds and hundreds of servicemen/women” who’ve been pressured into joining a church, or the Knights of Columbus or any other organization, just to keep a job.
Meanwhile, when are you removing the electric meter from your house?
I stand firm against any involuntary or compulsive codification of religious ideals…..but Mikey needs to give it rest.
“Mikey’s the man”
No Joey, Mikey is most certainly NOT the man…like you, he’s merely a self serving little Bitch.
“Mikey’s the man, and his organization has been scoring some big dicks lately, with more to come.” Dude! that is just wrong!
#5, Joe, if it’s not all about me, who else is it about? Your draft-dodging ass?
Joey doesn’t know, but because someone makes a claim that supports his agenda, well then it becomes holy gospel–or whatever Joey believes in that day.
And yeah, Joe–why is it you have no problem with Islamic, Jewish, or other non-denominational or non-Christian clerics/chaplains/lay personnel, just the Christian ones? Can you even begin to explain that?
I would wait for an answer, but I know you’re incapable of providing one. Just change the subject and hope nobody notices. Psst–we do notice, you know.
No Joe, Mikey is not “the man”. Spigot had it right, he is an ambulance chasing little bitch who needs to find something better to do with his life than going out of his way to find something that offends him. Maybe get out and do something constructive.
UpNorth,
Most of the people who contact the MRFF do so in confidence since they fear expressing their concerns to their superiors – often times it’s their superiors who are the problem. But why don’t you fo to Mikey’s website Up and read a) letters from concerned servicemen and women, b) some of the hate mail he’s gotten, c) the threates to his and his family’s personal safety.
NHS, when they start putting the Star of David or the islamic crescent on the tails of FA/18’s, then you’ll hear from me.
You guys can be so, so clueless….
Joe calling other people clueless…. that is priceless.
Joe didn’t tell you to go eat a dick? Or was that insipid…damn head injury.
Great insight there, oh Joe the Heroic Rock-climber. I bow down before your manifest knowledge and expertise regarding religion in the military.
Geez. Quit being a weak-willed whiny little libidiot overly-sensitive girlie-man who interprets everything in the world as someone being “oppressed”, and sees oppressors in every shadow. And you’re argument here is specious at best. The fact that a relative handful of former service members are acting all but-hurt because someone invited or suggested to them that they might benefit from attending religious services proves nothing. (And yes, I do mean a relative handful – literally millions have served in the Armed forces during the last 50 years.) There are folks out there who would literally take offense to being offered a free beer or free Hershey bar, or being told politely that smoking is bad for their health and they ought to consider quitting. The military gets a few of those too.)
Oh, and remember: the world doesn’t care what you think and isn’t out to get you personally, Joey. To the world, you’re not significant enough to matter.
Joe,
Back in your hole. Soldiers don’t need you standing up for them on what is a fringe issue. Tell the Chaplain to take a hike. They are seriously low threat. As for the Bible Study Groups etc.., just tell them no. Actually as a Catholic it would be a lot more fun to attend and tell them they’re all damned to hell. Of course the Church doesn’t believe that anymore but its always fun to throw that marker down. It usually ends the discussion right there.
Seriously, as a commander your soldiers need to check their religion at the door along with their political views and do their damn jobs.
I guess they would get mad at the Navy for the F-8 Crusader or the XM2001 Crusader.
– Crusader tank, a British cruiser tank of World War II
– HMS Crusader, three British naval ships
– Operation Crusader, a British attack in North African campaign in World War II
– F-8 Crusader, a U.S. Navy fighter jet
– XF8U-3 Crusader III, an experimental fighter intended to replace the F-8 and compete with the F-4 Phantom II
– VMFA-122 Crusaders, a United States Marine Corps fixed wing fighter-attack squadron 122
– XM2001 Crusader, an American self propelled artillery project
So, anonymous letters from unknown folks? What could be wrong with that scenario, Joey? That reminds me of the opposite, all of those military folk who “support” Ronpaul, because his website says so.
Go to Mikey’s site? Why would I do that? It’s a waste of time, I’ve read lots on his best efforts, don’t need to drive up his visit counter.
As far as “fueling the cause of jihad”, I think they could go further, they could have a pic of a Harrier bombing a goat, that would really enflame the goat fuckers.
“…And yes, I do mean a relative handful – literally millions have served in the Armed forces during the last 50 years…” And before MRFF came about Sparky they bit their tongue because there was no one to turn to, so you have no clue how many did or didn’t feel pressured, coerced or browbeaten. No one does.
Anonymous to you and me Up, not to MRFF.
@19: (Then) VMA-122 took the name”Crusaders” when they transitioned to F-8 Crusaders. The held that name long after transitioning away from F-8’s until they began preparation for a deployment to Iraq. Someone somewhere up the chain decided that having a squadron of Crusaders with crosses on the aircraft’s tails would upset the delicate sensibilities of our Middle Eastern Muslim “friends,” so the name had to go.
Personally, I don’t think the name should have been changed to buying with. Werewolves is just queer.
Buying = begin. Damn iPhone spell checker.
Joe, we’re a land of CHOICES. I don’t get worked up over being offered a large drink with my meal at the drive-thru, or I get waylaid by cheerleaders who offer to wash my car, why should I get hysterical over someone offering to include me in their prayer group? I just say, “hey, that would be great!” or “No thanks, not right now,” just like I do with everything else. That’s what you do when you live in a land of choices, and you are given a choice. We’re a land of consumers, and I make the choice if I wish to consume the offered product, or not.
Joe, your lack of readin comprehinshun skillz is showing again. NHSparky didn’t write the comment about a “relative handful” and millions serving. I did.
Let me clue you in a bit concerning Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines, since you’re self-admittedly clueless about the military. There’s a shitload of “barracks lawyers” out there who’d be bitching like hell if this were a real problem – to their chains of command, the IG, their Congressional representative, their friends, and anyone else who’d listen. One thing members of the military aren’t shy about doing these days is bitching about things they don’t like.
Sheesh, you’re such an large, slow target here that it’s not even remotely a challenge . . . .
You know why I find MRFF and Whinestein so intolerable…because I truly believe their mission is total BS and self serving.
I wore the uniform for 24 years…4 as an E and 20 as an O. And I don’t even count two years in Army ROTC prior to my commissioning.
During that time I was never…as in not ONCE…ever “proselytized” or had religion of one flavor or another crammed down my throat by senior officers in my COC, or even by my peers.
Not once in 24 years…now, why was my experience so different from all the folks who are supposedly crying on the MRFF’s shoulder; was I that unique? I think not. If I wanted to go to Chapel…I went. If I didn’t, I didn’t. If I was ever invited to attend a Prayer Breakfast, and I wanted to go, I went…if not, I didn’t. No one GAVE A SHIT one way or another, and it sure didn’t hurt my career.
As for Mikey going after LTG (Ret) Jerry Boykin, well Boykin’s career as a fucking WARRIOR speaks for itself. Mikey wouldn’t even make a pimple on Boykin’s ass, nor any other Soldiers’ ass from the Unit.
But I feel your pain. I know you guys want time to stand still, or move backwards, but it keeps on moving forward, progress keeps getting made, and it pisses the hell out of you guys. I get it. But conservatives always lose in the long run as evidenced by the fact that we no longer have slavery, women can in fact vote, and we aren’t declaring fealty to our overlords.
At the USAF Academy, as shown over and over, declaring yourself anything less than a rabid christian would serioulsy damage your carrer path.
Joe: Really? Try a giving a few verifiable citations to back up your claims about the AFA, and then we might think you’re something besides a troll. Until then, keep on keepin’on – mini-Shreck.
Read up for yourself Hondo. Not in the mood to spoon feed. Shouldn’t be too hard.
@28 What kind of “rabid christian” would that be? Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Church of God, Church of Christ, Seventh Day Adventists…?
Evangelical christian
While I would label evangelicals obnoxious and frankly tiring, I wouldn’t label them rabid.
Tell ya what, Joey–if you can show me ONE SINGLE FUCKING OER that shows a guy got lower marks because he didn’t follow Jesus the same way his reporting superiors did, then I’ll concede the argument to you.
Until then, eat a nice steaming bowl of STFU.
You know why you get so butthurt over shit you don’t believe in? Because you have to consider the possibility, however remote, that you might just be wrong. Say that word, Joey–mouth the word as you read it on the screen. I’ll even type it slowly so as not to confuse you. Me? I don’t give a shit one way or the other, which is kind of the whole point we’ve been trying to drive into that granite covering you call a skull lo these many months.
But you get to push it on the military because you know they’re easiest to foist your beliefs or lack thereof. Try that in the civilian world and see how far you get. Bottom line, you want to push it here because you know if you did in fact push it anywhere else you’d get the shit knocked out of you on so many levels you’d think twice before doing it again.
Man oh Manischewitz, this has been an interesting read so far. I would like to share the following memories:
Dateline: Ft.Benning, GA Way back in the 1980s
The very first Sunday AFTER BRM*, a strange and wondrous thing happened. We did PT, cleaned the bay (Sand Hill), and went to chow. After that, the single drill Sergeant on CQ disappeared. Our platoon’s drill Corporal let us chill (in a very RELATIVE way). Another pair of months until graduation seemed closer wearing camo covers on our helmets for the first time. The week went particularly well and the drill left us the Sunday paper. We had not seen a newspaper since the reception station back in Jackson.
Until then, each week a Polish kid from Chicago, a pretty cool Puerto Rican guy and myself went to Mass unattended. Well, the first week we were marched up. After that, we went by ourselves and didn’t even think about going anywhere else. None of us were especially devout, it just seemed hypocritical to stop going because the period was now free time. Now, the 2nd part of OSUT had given us a treasured wee bit of chill time. We had never been given this before. Indeed my buddies felt I was squandering an 1/8th of that precious free time in a ritual. Maybe it is just me but that sure doesn’t seem like ANY sort of religion was favored. It certainly was never encouraged.
*To current troops, no it wasn’t flintlocks. Uncle Ronnie was our new C-in-C, and was just starting to re-build the shell left by the previous administration.
The only thing more stupid than folks outside the unit inserting themselves into the discussion of what a unit patch should be are those claiming to know anything about the process, or even more stupid, claiming to have knowledge of what anyone inside the closed ocmmunity called the military thinks about, well, anything.
My claim that there is no, none, nada, zip, zero, less than the statistical margin of error among the warrior class who gives a flip how anyone else in the warrior class does or does not worship is more likely to be true than any claim made by a mental misfit masquarading as a human being. Even if he did see in on the interwebs.
I’m callin’ bullshit unless you post a credible ref or two, Joe. You’re the one making the claim. Burden of proof is yours – not mine.
At least that’s the way it works among those with any honor/guts/credibility. Make a claim, be prepared to back it up.
Hondo – I CAN back up my claims – I just did a survey of every vet I’ve ever known and zilch was the amount of total concern expressed by every last one of them about how any other grunt, wannabe grunt, or support staff did or did not worship. They actually were much more concerned with how close the head (or alternatively, the back porch) was and their accessibility to same.
/sarc
Joe and Mickey what about the Air Force Cross, the Navy Cross, the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Distinguished Service Cross, the medics red cross? What about the hundreds of thousands of white marble crosses in Normandy, Argonne, Meuse, Romagne, Luxembourg, Holland at the American cemetaries, shouldnt you want those all removed and replaced with rainbow shaped tolerance stones?
Don’t hold your breath Hondo, how long have you been waiting for proof from the other semi resident troll (drunkard). As for wanting time to stand still Joey, nobody is saying that, just saying that the fact people get so upset over non issues like this one is more than a tax ridiculous. But then you do lack in basic reading comprehension so it’s no surprise you don’t understand the point.
Ain’t holdin’ my breath, Adam_S. I don’t expect Joe to have the balls to back up his claims. His type rarely do.
Mikey (MRFF) and Joe are two peter puffers that want a softer militray and talk a lot shit. Both should check into mental institutions. Mikey and Joe the keyboard warrior have a grandiose complex that make them think they’re more important and have delusions of representing the majority of military personnel. Both need to STFU and crawl back into their holes where they came from!
C.D.T. Marine Corps Vet
Ever meet a modern American atheist who wasn’t offended by Christianity? Seriously – what aspect of American life doesn’t offend an atheist?
Mommy and daddy made ’em go to church as a kid? That offended them.
See a family practicing their faith by praying before an event? That offends them.
A nativity scene at Christmas? Mention of G-d? Anything that reminds them of Christ?
Massive dosages of offense. Even jokes! What do you call an atheist who been laid in state? A: all dressed up with nowhere to go.
The key to atheism is it’s core. That core of American Atheism is to attack Christians and Christianity wherever it exists.
And to appropriately invoke Godwin’s Law: the religiously anti-religion folks tend to commit murder and other crimes on a grand scale – if there’s no consequence, why not enjoy the reward?
So, what Wienstein is achieving, just like Reinhard Heydrich, is the moral environment that will permit final solutions.
@DaveO – You realize that there is a flip-side to your coin right?
Can’t have organized and recognized prayer in public schools? Offends Christians.
Any thought of removing “In God We Trust” from currency? Offends Christians.
Gays want to have a legally recognized committed relationship? Offends Christians.
” the religiously anti-religion folks tend to commit murder and other crimes on a grand scale ”
I’d love to see the study that backs this up. Or any empirical evidence that non-believers are incapable of being good and moral, or conduct acts of charity. Atheists aren’t the ones generally attempting to codify a certain and discriminating morality based on something unprovable.
Mikey is a drooling tool on a crusade, but he’s no worse than his ideological counterparts.
CI–I’d say there’s a bit more historical precedence FOR a religious observation or honoring of same than the other way around.
And frankly, if Achmed can see the tail symbol at 20,000 feet and get all butthurt about it, then they’re not killing enough Talis.
Oh please, tell me this is a late April Fools joke. Quite apart from the constitutional problems of the government adopting religious symbols of this sort, it is a plainly stupid thing to do. Why would a military organization adopt a unit name that unnecessarily undercuts its very mission?
Remembering our NATO Allies in OEF, Norwegians & Danes as well as the Bundeswehr, with their crosses on National Flags and vehicles didn’t seem to bother Achmed that much……..
I’m an ‘atheist’ DaveO, and nothing about Christianity or America offends me. 🙂 I’m a live and let live kind of guy.
And I love this argument, “if there’s no consequence, why not enjoy the reward?”
This argument from a Christian usually assumes Christianity is the bastion of all ‘civilized’ or ‘moral’ behavior, completely ignoring basic cause and effect while basically saying humans are universally incapable of living a moral life without an artificial construct in the background to scare them into acting ‘right’. The logic argument concerning this is far more in depth but you’re smart enough to understand the gist of it.
Let the Marines have their Crusader name, no skin of my nose. 🙂
@46 Doug Indeap, HUH? Do you REALLY think the federal government knows or cares what a unit calls itself or what image they adopt as their emblem??? If, as you posit, the Feds are responsible for controlling what emblems and names various entities call themselves shouldn’t they concern themselves with what educational institutions call themselves? After all, they do fall under the jurisdiction of the Department of Education, a branch of the federal government. Sheesh!!!
“There are no atheists in foxholes”… but in Washington where it is safe… many? Who is running the show? A lot of good posts on this one.