A paper only an LT could write
1st Lt Daniel Durbin, or Butter Bar Duh-Duh-Durbey who had the decency to wait six more months to get promoted, explains in this editorial why newly minted Marines are simply too stupid to be released into the wild. But don’t let me tell you. Let him do the leg work:
The School of Infantry East (SOI-E) administratively separated more than 150 new Marines in fiscal year 2011 for a myriad of disciplinary and medical reasons. Many of these medical and legal issues occurred over recruit leave. There is a travesty happening right now in the Marine Corps, but nothing is being done about it. Every year, the Marine Corps loses several hundreds of Marines to drugs, legal issues, and injuries during a single 10-day period—recruit leave.
Yes sir, according to Duh-Duh-Durbey the Marine Corps administratively separates “about” 150 boots each year between Bootcamp and graduating Infantry School or Marine Combat Training East (both administered by the School of Infantry). In other words, using rather flush numbers from the Iraq surge years and accounting for the SOI-West as well, the Marines separate less than .013% of their annual recruits in this period. That’s right, .013%. A crisis if you will. Duh-Duh-Durbey describes the terrible plight of the plebian enlisted man as such:
…every year the Marine Corps sends thousands of young men and women home from recruit training back into the situations they were coming from. Many of these Marines have joined the Marine Corps to escape these dark situations and make a new life for themselves as Marines. But after a mere 12 weeks, we send them back into the home life they were trying to get away from.
Considering the demographic horror myself and most of my fellow enlisted Marines barely manged to escape in order to reach the life raft that is a Marine Corps recruiting office it’s a miracle more of us didn’t succumb to our imploding situation in the Delayed Entry Program. It’s a flat out anomaly any of us escaped our alcoholic foster parents long enough to get out of the trailer park to meet up with the other hood rat Poolies our recruiters manged to save from the wreckage of lower class America.
Not to say that the LT doesn’t empathize:
Do not think that I am trying to denigrate the incredible change a Marine experiences from the yellow footprints to graduation from recruit training; this is one of the most formative experiences in any person’s life.
Thanks, sir.
Of course that empathy allows Duh-Duh-Durbey to so succinetly diagnose the base enlisted man’s real problem:
However, the recruit training experience is only 3 months long. When these young, impressionable Marines return home on leave, the old bad habits are there waiting for them. Additionally, Marines who go on recruit leave are often swayed by the boyfriend or girlfriend back home who missed them so much, and they just can’t bear the thought of losing that once-in-a-lifetime relationship. These Marines return from recruit leave and simply refuse to train. Marines in this category are often processed for administrative separation.
Damn Josie, every time.
No fears though, Lt. Duh-Duh-Durbey has the answer:
The solution is incredibly simple. Put an end to recruit leave! This change would have the added benefit of enforcing the training mindset that is desperately needed. When the Marines return home, they are certainly proud of the accomplishment of becoming Marines, but they lose that vital training mindset. They get comfortable.
I propose that new Marines who graduate from Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego or Parris Island hop on a bus and continue training at SOI. After SOI graduation, they then drop to their MOS schools or for infantry Marines to the Operating Forces. This will maintain continuity for a single drop of Marines to their MOS schools or Operating Forces units.
I won’t go on to quote the whole pile of crap this idiot foisted on the Marine Corps Gazette, you can follow the link yourself if you’re into such self-flagellation. I will though say that the next time the good Lt finds himself being instructed how to run a convoy, keep two aircraft apart, fill out a clearance request, construct a fixed firing position, replace a rotor screw or do any of the million things he’s grossly unqualified to do, it would behoove him to stop and thank his lucky stars.
After all, that simple minded idiot with the Sgt’s chevrons who manged to survive the period in their lives inbetween mom & pop’s and the blessed period of mentorship from some retard with a degree from Party School State University and The Basic School Corps, hasn’t yet tripped over his own dick and screwed up the whole Marine Corps. Thanks for keeping your eye on the ball, sir!
People like Durbin, the grasping morons desperate to make a name for themselves, are the reason while enlisted personnel hate officers. Most Marines don’t trust officers because of the the ignorant fools like Durbin, and they assign that mentality to the rest of the shiny collared folk. As long as good officers tolerate peers like Durbin their job will only be harder. So I’ll pass on to the Marine Corps Officer Corps what I’ve heard many a Company Grade Officer pass onto me: police your own, gents.
Category: Dumbass Bullshit, Marine Corps
It’s their choice to return “home”. If home was so terrible, I can think of a myriad of other things to do during recruit leave, NONE of which involve being in one’s hometown!!
This eltee reminds me of the new company commander in the Clint Eastwood movie about Grenada.
This guy has a very short career ahead of him, I do believe.
I was an instructor at SOI west, and while we did drop a few of the Marines for this stuff, it was no where near as bad as this LT is trying to make it sound.
Lieutenant Durbin,
If three + months of supervision and mentoring by the Drill Instructors is not enough to convince a newborn Marine to stay on the straight and narrow for ten days, then nothing will.
They are grown men, they have earned the title of Marine. Let the ones who will be idiots get a new lesson in personal responsibility.
Maybe the good El-Tee might want to consider this recruit leave as just one more test of a future Marine. Not all lessons are learned on post from drill instructors. I would think it is far better to weed out the chaff at an early stage rather then say 30 days before a unit is to deploy to a hot zone.
Besides, nothing says the young recruit has to go home. Some of them hook up with buddies and either just stay in the area or go home with them. Nobody is forcing these young recruits to return home and if your reason for joining was to escape such a place I don’t think you’re going to head back.
Unless there is somebodies ass that needs kicking. I’m looking at you Jodie.
The Lt. seems to forget these new Marines who give up so much of their personal freedom are American Citizens, not chattel, not serfs.
I wonder how much leave he took after Officer Training?
Good grief, Lieutenant.
If a newly-graduated Marine isn’t smart enough or responsible enough to stay outta trouble during 10 or 12 days of post-boot camp leave, then don’tcha think that he’s probably a good bet to get in trouble later and become one of the proverbial “10%”?
Best to find out BEFORE valuable time, money, and leadership are used on him that are best expended on GOOD Marines.
As a former Army Officer even I am a shamed by this.
My best training was at the hands of SFC Morris, my platoon sergeant. Sadly it wasn’t until I was a captain that I fully understood what he was teaching me.
But that wasn’t his fault.
I’d like to see what this jerkoff was doing when he was in college.
http://terminallance.com/2010/06/25/terminal-lance-46-educated-leadership/
Fortunately, my experience with this type of officer while I was in was relatively rare.
Let’s hope it’s still that rare.
I’ve encountered more and more of these “aristocratic” assholes. In nine years, I can count maybe six officers I can say with confidence I’d be glad to work with, and none of them have been my platoon commander.
The funny part is, I know plenty of enlisted guys, rednecks no less, who are far better educated than most officers. I was in a truck for five hours once with two fellow Sgts and a Captain. We were talking about history, mostly, and the Captain couldn’t follow the conversation. He was lost.
Yep. Good leadership makes or breaks a unit. Given a choice, I wouldn’t follow this dingleberry to a Burgerking.
Glad that a young officer is taking notice, and doing something about the issue. The Army faces similar issues with losing recruits post-Exodus, but the silver lining that the LT is missing is that those recruits, Marine or Army, would use drugs or have career-ending medical issues diagnosed after graduation.
That’s a whole lot more expensive.
Actually our class were all granted leave in the middle of basic to go home for Xmas. I thought for a sec that the LT had a point but then basically he was saying that NCOs can’t do their jobs.
I stopped when he misused “myriad” in a sentence. I hate butterbars.
What NSOM said.
This clown has no idea that the weeding out process continues while in the fleet, sometimes half way through a 4 year enlistment.
And you laugh now, this louie will one day be running the Marine Corps, possibly as Commandant.
A PLEDGE PIN??? On your UNIFORM! !!!!!
This LT either has a lot to learn, or will have a short – and probably unpleasant – career in uniform.
“The funny part is, I know plenty of enlisted guys, rednecks no less, who are far better educated than most officers. I was in a truck for five hours once with two fellow Sgts and a Captain. We were talking about history, mostly, and the Captain couldn’t follow the conversation. He was lost.”
Worst one I ran into as a Marine was a Navy officer who had no idea who Alfred Thayer Mahan was.
This officer was a ring-knocker.
Funny, this very scenario happens to pretty much every joe who enlists into the Nasty Guard: you go off to training for a few months (or many months, for some), and then they kick you out and you still need to pay the rent and put food on the table. Somehow, we still manage to keep the ranks mostly filled.
Attrition is a very important mission in the Corps, about 5% of basic Marines will be efficient in their MOS….
Terminal Lance is freaking hilarious.
LT’s… good for giving you bad advice and getting you lost.
Not to defend Capt. Durbin (check out the comments at the link; he got promoted) necessarily, but back when DeSotos and Studebakers still roamed the planet a freshly minted Marine didn’t get leave directly out of boot camp. He went straight to ITR following graduation and wasn’t eligible for leave until he completed the course there. Still, it would seem that getting a couple week’s worth of vacation after being on the job for only a few months is a pretty good deal. Well, if you completely ignore that young Marine’s next assignment and the possibility that taking leave before deployment may not be an option, that is.
I do believe, though, that if a shitbird is, indeed, a certifiable shitbird it really doesn’t matter how long you deny him leave; he will auto-copulate before the world in glorious fashion the very first chance he gets. Might as well get it over with sooner than later.
@MMX Basic training was also shorter. It doesn’t really matter, though. If a Marine wants to fuck up then whoever is a Lance Criminal at heart will find a way.
Durbin is an idiot. Maybe he doesn’t realize basic training is longer than OCS, and he got weekend liberty while he was there. Unless he’s one of those JAG guys that gets Captain before they do any actual military training. God, I hate d-bags like him. He’s going to get a rude awakening in the Fleet if any of his SNCO’s read the Gazette.
You may have me on that one, Ann. I did 12 weeks at MCRD/Hollwood in 1965. I don’t know what the duration is today.
That would be MCRD/”Hollywood”, of course. What a putz.
When I met my second wife she was surprised that I had never taken any college courses and she asked why. I told her that every officer I had met while in the Navy was a college graduate and 1/2 of them couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel. She pointed out that the other half was competent, and convinced me to go back to school.
This pinhead sounds like the first half.
@MM No, my mistake. It’s still 12 weeks. I thought the 60’s still had the shorter duration training.
Oh, you’re not mistaken at all, Ann, I believe it did go to 8 weeks or so, but that was ’67 or ’68ish, I think. There was an enhanced demand at the time for fresh talent and they cycled them through pretty quickly. The poor bastards probably didn’t even get a chance to get their right obliques and eight count squat thrusts down correctly.
I agree that this guy sounds like an idiot.. and his writing is shameful with his anxious high-school-girl tone. The corps will be fine with or without recruit leave.
The navy has done away with recruit leave.
USMC recruit training is longer, and there are other variables. Either way, they’ll live. It’s NOT the crisis the LT suggests. Waiting until after they drop into their MOS is a BAD plan. they should not have to wait past SOI for leave.
You can’t spell lost without the “LT”!!! 😀
This asshat is what gives officers a bad name. He reminds me of the Plt Ldr I had when i got out. I think the reason I disliked him so much was because my former Plt Ldrs knew their places and learned from their SNCOs and NCOs.
What’s better, to lose them after only wasting three months on them or investing many months or years before they get tossed? We had a guy named Evans who was an AJ Squared Away Marine out of recruit training. We went thru Amtrac school together. A year later they found him dead of an OD in a motel room in San Diego. Which cost more?
Bubblehead Ray: Yeah, there are a lot of folks out there who are living proof it’s possible to be both highly educated and a fool. Unfortunately some get commissioned.
This is a clear example why, after attaining the rank of SFC, I decided to drop a packet for OCS. Methinks the young man missed his calling. His “exceptional” (in the sense of small yellow bus) analytical ability and demonstrated empathy for the plight of those less fortunate than he to live an extended adolescence, clearly demonstrates an aptitude for a career as a social worker.
I thank God/Jehova/Odin/Allah/Vishnu/insert deity here, that Chesty Puller isn’t alive today to see this.
Left my $0.02, shan’t repost here. The gist of it is that Boot Camp is for acculturation, and if that doesn’t take during Boot Camp, it never will. Also, Capt. Durbin fails to note that temptations abound whether the time of liberty is 2 days or 10, so he’s doing nothing but damaging his future relationships with the enlisted by publishing his poor opinion of the enlisted side for all and sundry to see. Aside from a few old timers who remember the ’60s when Boot Leave came after SOI, the comment thread seems to be going against him (and rightly so). While there is a case for denying leave until SOI is complete (though I wouldn’t push it back any further), this joker is not the man to make it with his condescending, hair-on-fire attitude and obvious disdain for anyone unfortunate enough to not hold a commission. I confess that one of the hidden perks of attending ROTC with 7 years active duty under my belt is disabusing some of these knuckleheads of their ridiculous assumptions regarding enlisted men. Not that I had to do that often, our enlisted cadre were EXCELLENT and usually took care of all but the true incorrigibles very quickly.
Ok fellas. As a company grade officer, it’s time to give this article some perspective from the other side. I see his point; he perceives a problem, and he’s clearly concerned about it, and suggests a solution. It may not be the right solution, but he’s *thinking*. As a young officer,he’s still learning the ways of the military, even more so if he’s a direct commission. I would suggest the fact that he is paying enough attention to his joes to notice this, and took the time to write a paper and suggest solutions tells us the officer in question might not be the ‘asshat’ as implied above. He may merely be at that turning point in his military career that he’s finally starting to see the big picture. He might not see it yet, but he’s clearly less experienced in the military than many of the commenters here, and that his inexperience leads him to incorrect conclusions. This is part of the natural progression of growth as a professional. Now, his writing style leaves a little to be desired, but that’s a personal issue. His writing gives the impression (rightly or wrongly) that he has very strong feelings on this. I hope that he takes the feedback that he receives from this article and uses it to help open up his relations with his NCO’s. The article’s point is valid; the writing style comes across as offensive to the enlisted ranks. I will say that I have learned more from my NCO’s that I ever did on OBLC. There was a Master Sergeant (6’6, Chaplin’s assistant, HUGE black dude) in my hospital unit who busted my chops constantly when I was a 2LT. (I’m a little white guy). He did his NCO magic on me and helped me become a better soldier, and a better officer. He actually told my wife at a formal unit event once: “Ma’am, I wasn’t too sure about your husband when he was a butterbar. Now he’s a First Lieutenant, he’s ok. We might be able to pass the time of day when he’s… Read more »
@ANCCPT I’ve seen little good coming out of Lieutenants trying to solve perceived problems.
He’s apparently quite the writer:
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/rethinking-engineer-mos
I think the only thing we’d get from that is even greater amounts of command and equipment redundancy.
Sure, Ann, but think about it. He’s a 1LT. He’s a platoon level officer. And yet, he’s looking at issues that affect the Marines as a whole, and affect the enlisted Marines in piticular and he’s thinking of solutions. He might not be right, but would you rather have an officer who’s thinking for himself, or one who can’t be bothered to think of his joes?
I have lead battalion strength field excercises before, and while planning for them, I’d rather have people that will present solutions than the people who sit back and either don’t contribute or are constatly negative. This guy sounds to me like a typical energetic young officer that is still excited enough to be proactive to make a difference.
Reading the second article, his writing style has cleaned up a lot, the second one is much more articulate.
Here is something to think about. Is the distaste and insults directed at this young officer becasue of his ideas, which are, admittedly not perfect, or are they directed at him because he’s an officer daring to opine on what is traditonally considered ‘NCO business’? When I was a young LT, one of the lines I heard most from both my
co at the time and my senior NCO’s was ‘Godammit, use your head, LT!!!’ Well, this young man appears to be trying to do exactly that, and he’s getting excoriated. He’s wrong, but he’s thinking, and isn’t that what the goal of developing and growing our junior officers is? To get them to think critically and independently? Why the reflexive negativity?
Well, I appreciate all the feedback! As a prior enlisted Airman, I did not get leave after boot camp, and I think it is a better, more cost-effective way for the Marine Corps to do business. Also, as I noted in the editorial, Marine Officers are not granted leave after completion of OCS. I’m not sure why this editorial angered so many people, but I hope it gets people talking! Instead of sending Marines home for 10-31 days, we could use that as training time at SOI and turn out an even better product to the fleet! I’m not sure why people took this as some slight against the enlisted corps. As i said, I was enlisted… Well, I don’t know if I have changed anyone’s mind, but thanks for the mention! And BTW, Terminal Lance is awesome!
Hopefully the Marine Corps will continue to invest in this young now-captain. Soldiers and marines piss and moan about having to endure a lot of death, pain and destruction most of which is attributable to the officers planning an op NOT being strategic, even tactical thinkers.
That kind of thinker we desparately need. We don’t need more Tora Boras. We don’t need more “No Exit Strategy” and leaving billions of dollars of equipment behind while our POTUS has launched us down the Road To War with Iran.
So instead of knocking the captain for using his head for something other than a hat rack, why not give him more issues to resolve. “Create Your Own Krulak”
@43- Marine Corps boot camp is twice as long as Air Force boot camp and significantly more difficult.
In addition, Marine OCS candidates get time off during training. I was stationed at MCAS Quantico and lived in the midst of OCS. I remember candidates whining about how much harder OCS was than boot camp as they were drinking pitchers of beer at their geedunk in the evening. I not only drank no beer in boot camp, but had to request permission to speak in order to request permission to make “an emergency head call.”
Semper Fi
I’m not making the argument that Air Force Boot Camp or OCS is as hard as Recruit Training. But there is a reason you don’t send your most junior guy on a combat patrol alone. You salt that guy up first (even if he is a butter bar…which I am not)! But yeah! I’m glad I got people talking and debating the issue. I am sorry if people took this as anti-enlisted. Again, I am prior enlisted. I just haven’t heard a good argument yet on how Recruit Leave is making the Marine Corps better.
@42 But it IS NCO business. One of the key aspects of the Marine Corps’ operational success is giving a good bit of control to your small unit leadership. Particularly your NCOs. Some things should just be left to enlisted personnel, and this is one of them.
@46 GRADUATION leave is a basic morale issue, and is one of the strongest short term motivations for persevering through boot camp. Of course OCS is difficult, but I don’t think you have a full appreciation for the rigors of basic training. But fine, if we have to do away with GRADUATION leave then OCS candidates and TBS students should give up their weekend liberty since you guys are supposed to lead from the front. It takes around 1-2 years of time in the Fleet for a Marine to truly mature as Marines.
So, again, you might as well argue that they shouldn’t take leave until they become an E-3. Marines are adults (even junior enlisted personnel), so don’t infantilize them. You only end up showing them that you care more about an insignificant monetary amount at the expense of building trust and showing a smidgen of concern for their morale.
Of course significant numbers of Marines get into trouble on weekends and holiday periods. Should we deny them that as well? Those silly Lance Criminals don’t need to have weekends, it would be much better spent in the field! The same argument can be applied to BEQ residents, so why don’t we just put everyone back into squad bays for their enlistment. SOI can’t make irresponsible Marines change. Someone who is going to screw up on boot leave, but it prevented from going on it, will invariably do something similar later (and after a hell of a lot more money spent on training.)
Where to begin…The Skipper is proposing that these newly minted Marines, who have literally been on duty seven days a week for three months shouldn’t get some time off? Instead once they’re done with recruit training they go directly to ITS and don’t get leave until they graduate. So 03s can take leave after graduation but non-03s would then report to their MOS school without taking leave? In my case, I would do 13 weeks of recruit training, do three three week of non-infantry school combat training then off to Amtrac. School for another eight weeks. So under this plan I would go six months with out any real time off. So now this brand new 1833 gets to go home and just for “shits & giggles” let’s say I’m get drunk and roll my car and sustain such severe injuries I will never serve on active duty. The Marine Corps has just waste six months and how many hundreds of thousands of dollars to train someone who will never set foot in the FMF.
Now for this plan to really work, you’d have to make ITS and MOS schools an extent ion of recruit training and keep the new Marines under 24/7 supervision. Otherwise the new Marines could go out to Oceanside and get injured or contract some legal issue that might be cause for separation. What about aviation Marines? I remember hearing some of their schools can be up to two years long. So some poor wing-wiper wouldn’t get leave for almost 2 1/2 years?! Yeah, real morale booster and recruiting tool that would be.
@49 One of my biggest beefs with the proposal is that he makes no mention of applying something similar to officer candidates who get weekend liberty, and can go drinking.