Special Operations ain’t so special anymore
beretverde sent us a link from Associated Press which tosses the “special operations” phrase like it’s fricken ice cream. They begin well by telling the tale of a first ElTee who was killed while she was supporting a unit in Afghanistan, without mentioning which unit it was she was supporting. But her only function according to the article was frisking Afghan women wearing burkas – that’s not special operations, Lolita Baldor, author of the article. it’s the same thing that female cops in the US do.
Baldor goes on to embroil herself in the “special” adjective by describe the “grueling” training these women endured;
Last November, the first group of women went through a grueling five-day assessment that tested their physical and military skills, their problem-solving and writing abilities and their psychological and mental fitness. Those that passed moved on to a six-week training program.
Yeah, nothing in the military that lasts for five days can be considered “grueling”. As long as we knew it was only five days, we knew we’d make it. I know that for civilians, five days can be a long time, but not for military people. That’s like civilians think that five mile runs every morning are grueling, or thirty minutes of calisthenics are grueling. Anyone who couldn’t pass a five-day selection phase, no matter what it involved, was too weak to be in the military under any circumstances. I noticed Lolita didn’t mention how many wash-outs there were…my guess is NONE.
And in January, the first group of 28 women deployed to Afghanistan with Army Rangers and Special Forces teams.
Yeah, last I heard, selection phase for the Ranger battalions was two weeks long (that’s fourteen days, not two five day weeks) and Ranger School is nine weeks (again, there are no weekends off during Ranger training), Selection phase for SFQC is a month and the school is 16 weeks, so you know, a five day selection phase and six weeks of training is just as good as the men’s training. I’m sure they learned just as much.
And anyone who has served in these units will tell you that training is only the beginning point. It takes years in these units to reach the proficiency of the real “operators”. Just like any other fresh graduate from any school. These women were rushed to war so someone politician can tell the media that there are women in “special operations”.
I’m not trying to take away from the tragedy of the death of Army 1st Lt. Ashley White who was the subhect of the article to begin with….she was killed by a Taliban bomb and she’s just as dead as a man would be, but that’s kind of my point. Someone made a politically expedient decision to rush women through training so they can be “Special Operations” soldiers for the media, and this one died.
It’s a tragedy in that someone thought that half-assed training was worth the life of a fine, young 1st Lieutenant.
Now if you made all the way through my rantings and read every word to see what my point was, you can start tearing me up in the comments. If you did like Obama Girl and read the first sentence only, please save my bandwidth.
Category: Military issues
You’re a callous hateful bitter little man Lilyea I don’t know why you hate women but this just might be the worst thing I have read on this site. They never claimed to be SF or Rangers they are supporting them like CA and Psyops do which fall under the Special Operations umbrella. You owe this womans family an apology for cheapening her service and making light of her death!!!!
Oh and by the way my BF said that he got weekends off in certain phases of the q course and he said he knows you get a weekend off between each phase of Ranger school. He never went to Ranger school but has plenty of friends who did so you’re factually incorrect as well as being morally incorrect.
Jeez, are we going to see another 100 post plus arguments going back and forth from “SF Lawyer” and her ilk?
“…I don’t know why you hate women…”
Got a mirror handy?
When I first read about these units a month or so ago I had the same reservations. I understand the benefits of having women for patting down women in a Muslim country, but their lack of training on the same level as the forces they were attached to was troubling. They may have been well trained to do their task, but they were moving with units who’s level of training, physical abilities, and experience was far above their own.
I don’t think lack of training had anything to do with her death. Now the hasty elevation of the to SOF operator or Ranger may be a little overdone. Everyone dies it doesn’t matter some people zig when they should have zagged period.
As a added side note, the guys in my automotive class were annoying me the other day so I made it a point to put her name on the board to show that a woman had more balls than they did.
well, bobogirl, Jonn went through both, so for you to say that he’s incorrect because someone else said it, makes you incorrect. When Jonn went through; maybe they didn’t get time off? When I went through basic, we didn’t get passes in my unit, but talking with others after basic, their unit did get passes. I guess it depends on the individual who actually experienced it.
Whats funny is that this woman saw more combat than most of the sorry fucks on this site that call themselves men.
OT #7: I do think you’ve hit A nail. Certainly training regimens changes over the years as the perceived threat changes. Bayonet training comes to mind?
And politics alone certainly effect training, tactics, and strategy as well.
Which woman are you talking about, King; bobogirl or the Lt.?
As for the sorry fuck part; look in the mirror you piece of shit.
Both
Obumbler bitch and King Sphincter think they are tag teaming us. What a flippin’ pair of know nothings.
Sure she did king. Its not like getting blown up several times, exchange small arms fire, treating a sucking chest wound, or getting rocketed and mortared more often than not is combat. No no, combat is frisking Muslim females, while 11B’s patrol and secure the area, and 12B’s sweep the streets and routes for IEDs. Glad you could set us all straight.
Jonn, Special Operations, got killed by the good idea fairy. Or the John Kerry effect. At the outset of the war, people looked at what the PSYOP and CA teams were accomplishing and went “WOW, we sure could use some more of that”! and began an intensive recruiting campaign, granting waivers to everyone who wanted one, and easing the training all to hit numbers. Apparently someone thinks that quantity has a quality all its own.
The result has been less than stellar, and its getting worse as the old SOCOM folks “age out” (up or out is the worst thing you can do to any community with special in its name). I went to AIT for 37F in 2008. We were among the last rotations to do live weapons fire (M4’s, M9’s, 240’s, 249’s, AK’s, etc), intensive drivers training, nasty nick, combatives level 1&2, ruck marches, camp McCall’s landnav course, and being held to the airborne standard for graduation (though I know students who graduated that didn’t meet that standard, thats another issue). The previous rotation was the last rotation to do a “kill course” (choice between rabbits or chickens). When I returned to my unit, despite doing all that, my unit still crushed me. 10K landnav in the Sierra Nevada’s with IBA and plates, three day drills with four hours of sleep a night, off road drivers courses…it was a relief to deploy to Iraq.
Now? I just had a kid get back from Bragg and he talks about three day weekends, off post, laptops and cell phones, two hour lunch breaks, training days that end by four.
So you are right, Special Operations isn’t all that special anymore. Its a numbers game.
And Jonn, I will be with Ranger RI’s this afternoon as they get 2 MC-6 jumps, and will bring us all up to date on the “weekend passes” thingy.
And did we note: “my BF said that he got weekends off in certain phases of the q course ……, He never went to Ranger school but…..”
Read that as “found during Q course to not be Ranger material”.
BTW OT I wake up in the morning, look in that mirror and I’m DAMN PROUD of what I see. Go fuck yourself you fat tub of shit.
Sure you weren’t looking in the microwave by mistake?
Yeah, King, we’re all damn proud of you. Especially when you come on here with your ass showing telling us all how we aren’t worthy and you’re such a sooper trooper. Every time you come on here, it appears you are attempting to over compensate by running down the service of others while bragging about your own service, or that of those whom you agree with. Yeah, that’s what makes us so damn proud of you. I’m continually blinded by your awesomeness and how much of a billy badass you are.
Now, run along and pump the neighbor’s dog, as usual, and you can have a pudding cup afterwards. I’ll make sure that the phrase “you’re awesome!” is spelled out on top for you.
@13 what is 37F? Psyops?
@14 My BF says he doesn’t want to go to Ranger school, he says “why would I go to high school when I have already been to college”
If by neighbors dog you mean your old lady then you’ve accurately stated my plans for the afternoon. And make it Ranger pudding because thats the only kind I eat. But I guess your sorry ass wouldnt know anything about it.
@7 Lilyea is SF? My BF wants to know what group he was in? and when did he graduate from the Q?
If he didn’t want to go Ranger School, why waste the time in the Q course? That is for those who request Ranger School, is it not?
Ah yes, there ya go, King, you are such an awesome individual. Again, I’m blinded by your awesomeness. You just go on ahead there, sooper trooper, and tell us more about your bad self. I never get tired of hearing the derring-do ramblings of a true American hero such as yourself. Please, tell us how you finished Ranger school in 2 weeks, because you’re so awesome.
@21: Ask him yourself.
I never said I was a badass I just said were a fat sloppy sorry mess of diarrhea. I’m off to get my knob polished I’ll say hi to your girl for you.
“I’m off to get my nub polished”
Fixed it for you.
@24 Lilyea wont come down from his ivory tower when he has his minions like you to do his dirty work
Like watching a bunch of junior high girls have a slap fight on the playground.
…are they Catholic school girls? Just askin’.
@25: Bullshit, you have attempted to run down every other Vets service by pumping yourself up. There are countless examples of you doing so and when I get time from doing your momma (see, I can play your infantile game, too) I’ll even list some of it for ya. You don’t know me. You have no idea what I look like, but you think that by calling me fat and sloppy will make you feel better about yourself; fine, have at it (I’ll even continue to tell you how awesome you are, because we don’t want your self esteem to suffer). Plus, your crank ain’t long enough (no matter what your gf tells you) to reach from your AO to where I live, but I do enjoy the sentiment that you think my wife is hot enough for you, per your high standards.
@27: I don’t do his dirty work. I don’t have to. Jonn is big enough to do his own, plus he’s very good at it.
I work at Ranger Training Brigade. There are no weekends off between phases for students. They get one 8 hour pass after Darby phase to replenish their packing list prior to going up to Mountains. There are no other passes or days off.
As for ObamaGirl’s statement in #18 “My BF says he doesn’t want to go to Ranger school, he says why would I go to high school when I have already been to college”….there are SF guys in every single Ranger class, and they can recycle and fail just like every other soldier that comes through the school. In fact, the graduation rate for special forces soldiers in fiscal year 2011 was only 36%. If attending and graduating Ranger school was not important to the Special Operations community, then they wouldn’t be wasting the time and money to send hundreds of soldiers to the school each year.
I knew this would blow up! To those that are spewing… my advice would be to focus on the article instead of “shooting the messenger” (Henry IV Part 2).
The old sayings:
Rangers over take airfields
SEALS over take oil rigs
Marines over take beaches
Special Forces overthrow countries
This article was too easy and entertaining! Blam!
@30 For the life of me I can’t figure out why you idolize Lilyea so much
Now, run along and pump the neighbor’s dog, as usual, and you can have a pudding cup afterwards. I’ll make sure that the phrase “you’re awesome!” is spelled out on top for you. Old Trooper, that should read “hump” instead of “pump” and the phrase “Your Awesome” would be tattoo’d on his left fore arm so he can’t loose it.
I never said I was a badass I just said were a fat sloppy sorry mess of diarrhea. king, we know your fat, tell ya mama hi from the boys in cell block “A”. I’m off to get my knob polished I’ll say hi to your girl for you. Spare us the details of your sexual adventures with your little sister…oh wait. She’s ugly too….
@33: I don’t idolize him. We’re friends that have a few things in common and have known each other for going on about 8 years. Same with TSO. We share common interests in certain areas (no, I’m not a gamer) and work together on Veteran’s issues at both the legislative and community levels. COB6 is someone that I happened upon his blog and found out that we were stationed at the same place at the same time, but didn’t know each other, although we both knew some of the same people. When Jonn or TSO are in town, we try to get together and rain death and destruction upon helpless milk jugs and other inanimate targets and basically enjoy hanging out and grabbing a few coldies.
Why do you idolize Obama?
@35 He is just a different type of politician he hasn’t been corrupted by Washingtons politics and genuinely wants the best for this country. We haven’t had a president like that in my lifetime. I could go without some of the people on his cabinet but I realize you have to give in to party demands sometimes
Big O must have a paper due for school. She’s spending way too much time here today. As for folks idolizing Jonn, I think she is confusing respect, admiration, and an occasional helping hand with idolizing. But that figures, now, doesn’t it. The Big GO is an easy read. She’s like a kid who does and says bad things for attention. She speaks ill of something she would like for herself, captured by Cartman’s famous line, “Respect my authoritie!”
Hmmm. “St. Jonn of Lilyea.” It DOES kind of have a ring to it, don’t it?
🙂
Female Engagement Teams….
Project Lioness with the Jarheads….
@36 This made me laugh, “He is just a different type of politician he hasn’t been corrupted by Washingtons politics and genuinely wants the best for this country.” I’ll let you have the second half because the President and yourself believe in enconomic & social theories that are the opposite of what I believe. I think you are both wrong, but that you think you are right and are doing what is right.
As to the first part though, I can’t for the life of me think of a real job that the President ever held. He worked in academia and politics all his life and the recent scandals with Solyndra and Fast and Furious are almost too cliche to be real.
Hey, the tag moved from King Brian, to King, and now to king. At that pace, it will soon be ing, ng, g, and then nothing. Can you move faster your lordship?
As a prior enlisted Ranger-qualified Infantry Officer in the ARNG, I will ask why this topic was brought up in the first place. Let’s leave the sacred memories of our dead to the left-wingers to desecrate, debate, and what have you. Let’s rebut and defend where appropriate. But to pontificate on her status based on a dumbass reporter’s story, is stooping to their level. Why use the Soldier’s name for a pointless debate which will result in her name being thrown around between “could have” and “could have not’s,” especially in the connotation of the article. Even if the point of the article is to reveal the stupidity of the media and their flawed agenda. Leave the sacredness of this woman’s sacrifice alone.
Cue OG, Solyndra and F & F never happened. And when they did, it was Bush’s fault.
But, there is one nugget of truth in what she said, “We haven’t had a president like that in my lifetime”. So true, I thought Jimmah Cahtah was the worst, but he’s not even in the same zip code with Barack Hussein Obama mmm mmm mmm.
I remember when it was one tab- Ranger, one beret- Green. Now EVERYONE can get a tab (e.g. the “Crapper Tab” chick authorized) and EVERYONE wears a beret. Also EVERYONE is now or was “SPECIAL OPS.”
And I sure as hell remember:
“Hardly worth going to war no more.”
So fucking true today! RIP Barry… your words still live!
Lesson from the article, that most folks overlooked: the enemy gets a vote. Dead is dead.
I understand why some SF don’t get their Ranger tab first: if one is not 11-series, chances are slim that you’ll be authorized to even compete for a slot for Ranger School.
5 days to learn how to frisk a person wearing a burkha is 4.75 days too long. Likely some chowderhead in 357 hit Default on training time and away they went.
[…] earlier post alluded to what the article describes. Wherein command makes a decision that get’s someone […]
Leave the sacredness of this woman’s sacrifice alone.
I don’t believe Jonn or anyone else crapped on her sacrifice. As Jonn said, “I’m not trying to take away from the tragedy of the death of Army 1st Lt. Ashley White who was the subhect of the article to begin with.”
I DO however believe that Jonn rightly called into question the berevity of the “training” they received prior to being inserted into an area, where SF operators received many months if not years of training for the same situation.
The case is, and I believe it strongly having witnessed it first hand, is that political correctness can and will get people killed. What if Lt. White’s sacrifice was unnecessary, or worse, a case of PC-ism putting someone unqualified (man or woman) into a situation for which they weren’t prepared?
John RIP is now Called RASP (Ranger Assessment and Selection Program) and its 8 weeks. The first 4 are the smoke fest and the last 4 are demo, CQB, fast roping etc. But obviously the last four are still physically demanding.
OG I’ll let you slide for your obvious stupidity. I mean really it’s in your name after all.
King you on the other hand have shown yourself to be the one thing I probably despise more so than any other. You are a poser who claims to be the awesome super bad ass soldier that conquered RIP/RASP faster than any other soldier in History and the JFKSWC just handed you your Green Beret because you are so awesome you didn’t need to pass the SFQC. Spare me your bullshit junior cause most of us were doing our Military service before you were doing your Sister to pop your cherry. Hell most of us probably did your sister as well.