“I didn’t tell. It didn’t matter”
I spent twenty years in the infantry, and although we played a lot of tricks on people, mostly of a sexual nature, I don’t think I ever saw anything that comes even close to the antics described in this morning’s Washington Post by Joseph Roche. Based on absolutely nothing but a gut feeling I’m calling Bullshit.
Shop talk in the unit revolved around sex, either the prostitute-filled parties of days past or the escapades my comrades looked forward to. They interpreted my silence and total lack of interest as an admission of homosexuality. My higher-ups seemed to think that gave them the right to bind me to chairs, ridicule me, hose me down and lock me in a feces-filled dog kennel.
Now, why would someone think that lack of participation in discussions about sex make someone queer? We had ordained ministers and the average “Holy Joes” who wouldn’t participate either. And we certainly didn’t spend our entire work day talking about that stuff – you run out after a while and actual work intercedes. But my NCOs certainly didn’t do any of that stuff Rocha describes.
I was the decoy, and I had to do just what Chief Petty Officer Michael Toussaint ordered.
In one corner of the classroom was a long sofa, turned away from the door. When you walked into the room, it appeared that one man was sitting on it, alone. But I was there too — the chief had decided that I would be down on my hands and knees, simulating oral sex. A kennel support staff member and I were supposed to pretend that we were in our bedroom and that the dogs were catching us having sex. Over and over, with each of the 32 dogs, I was forced to enact this scenario.
That makes no sense – are there sex-detection dogs in the Navy? Does the Navy use these sex-detection dogs to find Homos having sex? Can the dogs differentiate between homosexual and heterosexual sex? Do the dogs care if you’re having sex? Too many unanswered questions.
I told no one about what I was living through. I feared that reporting the abuse would lead to an investigation into my sexuality. My leaders and fellow sailors were punishing me for keeping my sexuality to myself, punishing me because I wouldn’t “tell.”
I was never in the Navy, but that just sounds ridiculous. I’m pretty sure the Navy has better things to do than try to get it’s members to out themselves. Rocha claims that the CNO is investigating this and I hope the results of the investigation are published because to me this sounds like a guy whose knees went weak during his Naval Academy years and bailed, now he’s looking for an excuse that makes him look good.
Category: Military issues
Sounds like another failure at life who is looking to blame someone else for his failure. Kind of like the current president, every failure is someone else’s fault. Then again another man will swear in court the pres is a homosexual.
I was in the Navy, and those comments peg the BS meter for me as well. I ended up as an LPO, the Leading Petty Officer of my division, responsible for 28 enlisted men and a 24/7 manning schedule. We didn’t have time for crap like that, and I certainly wouldn’t have allowed it to happen.
Now, being red-blooded US Sailors, we DID hit liberty hard and heavy, but I just never heard the kind of sex-talk this fellow claims went on.
I’ll also add this: Two aircrewmen, both E-5, who I served with and flew with, were both homosexuals. These were on two separate crews. Everyone in the squadron, except for the willfully ignorant, knew they were gay. No one gave a shit. Why? Because they weren’t overt or in any way flaunting themselves, making some big frikkin’ production out of their sexual preferences.
Both of those young men were hard-working, squared away Petty Officers who I was pleased to crew with because they were professionals. We didn’t ask and they didn’t tell, and things worked just swimmingly.
I have no problem with gays in the military. What i have a problem with are the self-appointed spokesmen for queers who wallow in a ?victim? mentality, almost bordering on a pathological self-loathing because they see themselves as “different”, and need enablers to their victimhood. People like Joseph Roche, mentioned above.
Join the military because it’s the right thing to do, because you believe in the Constitution and the obligations of personal sacrifice that comes with it. Join the military for adventure, for a job, for whatever. DON’T join the military to find a platform for your personal agenda. That just pisses EVERYONE around you right the ‘eff, and causes all sorts of needless work and lost time.
Anyway, that’s how I see it. I understand that other folk’s mileage will vary.. 🙂
All of this talk about how gays are abused in the military is so much BS. I too spent a little over 20 years in the Infantry and never saw or heard any of this sort of stuff going on and for folks that don’t know the Infantry is probably the last good ‘ol boys club left.
My own experiences with gay soldiers. Positive. So positive in fact that I knew of a medic who was gay, everybody else knew he was gay, but when it time to deploy, whether on training exercises or for real all of the NCO fought to have him assigned to their unit. Being gay didn’t matter one wit. The fact is he was one of the top 3 medics I ever encountered in my career and the sonuvabitch knew his job.
Stories like this are for the ignorant masses, and I don’t mean ignorant in a bad way. I mean it in a way of people who really have no knowledge of life in the military other then what they see in movies or portrayed in what certainly seems to me, to be made up stories.
No, gays in the military do not act like their more militant civilian counterparts that we see flaunting their sexuality in your face and in the street parades that have made bloggers like Zombie a household name, rather they display what is called a quiet professionalism.
Even as a submariner, and I can vouch for the fact that we’re a pretty damned deviant lot, I never saw or heard of anything ever coming close to this. I have known of people who were gay or bisexual (including one in my first command who later developed HIV), but it was never a big issue. Sounds like someone is trying to cover their ass, perhaps?
If you want to see how well this propaganda piece is working, take a look at the comments from WaPo’s bleached minds.
My own contribution to the discussion;
I call BS on this fantasy. I know all of you people who never joined the military will fall into the trap based on your preconceived notions – but the rest of us smell a rat. Rocha is just another quitter trying to mitigate his weak knees.
[…] Jonn Lilyea is calling Bullsh*t on a Washington Post story about military sexual antics […]
“If you want to see how well this propaganda piece is working, take a look at the comments from WaPo’s bleached minds.”
Jesus H. Tapdancin Christ, Jonn–how about a spork alert next time? Then again, anyone daring to call BS on Rocha probably had their comment scrubbed before five seconds had elapsed, and the remaining commenters are those that think Platoon was a real-life documentary. It staggers me how that much dumb can concentrate in one place….
OTOH, I did bother to (try to) read the story. Not only does it not pass the smell test, in the post-Tailhook Navy of which AW1 and I are intimately familiar, even 1 percent of this would have resulted in a mast/court-martial/discharge so fast you’d only see the vapor trail of the perpetrators.
Sorry, but I call bullshit, too. It was the other way around from my experience. Overbearing lesbian women trying to take advantage of scared straight girls- with threats of violence.
I took it to the MP’s since I couldn’t protect the kid…that was back when nobody gave a shit about policy, as long as you kept it to yourself. Seriously, what 35 yo lesbian thinks it’s okay to hit on a 17yo kid and try to brainwash her into thinking she likes it? HFS. The BP cuff is about to explode!
This guy is a liar.
I just hope and pray that if CPO Troussaint is a real person, that he sues the ever lovin’ hell out of this POS and anyone else who would help this cocksmoker perpetuate this slander against him!
I was in the navy too, and I too call BS on this stuff. Just like the 9/11 conspiracy theories, there were too many people involved in this who would have told their friends about it who would have told somebody who would have reported it, and the Chief of the Boat would have stopped by unannounced and seen what was going on in there and booted them all over the side of the ship.
Obviously this guy knows he has a sympathetic audience and is looking for someone to hold his hand and commiserate. DefendUSA is spot on as well-my straight friend at an ivy league school will tell you of the rabid lesbo’s who seem to think that if only you sleep with their ugly asses, you’ll never go back….so much for one’s sexual proclivities being inborn not to mention sexual harrassment on the job.
The base-line problem with ALL gay-rights issue’s is that the legislators and media refuse to admit that homosexuality is a life-style choice. There is ZERO scientific evidence that anyone is “born gay”. Nada. Zip. Zero. There are several studies that support it being either a life-style CHOICE or a mental defect.
That being the case, allowing for openly homosexual folks to have “special rights” like the “right to marriage” and consideration under “hate crimes laws” makes a mockery of our laws and legislative processes. If the homosexual lifestyle can be considered “normal”, than pretty much any other lifestyle can also be granted similar status.
I don’t support that lifestyle choice, as I feel that it is a perversion, a “crime against nature”. However, if it’s between consenting single adults, then it’s their choice. If they choose to try and enlist, then that’s also their choice.
However, like Goth chicks, and transexuals, transvestites, S&M critters, etc, they have to toe the line with the Uniform Regulations and the UCMJ.
As long as they are not an impediment to good order, or a disruptive influence, then let them serve. However, they MUST be held to the same standards as everyone else. What they do on their own time is their business. What they do on Uncle Sam’s time is everyone else’s business, and rightly so.
AW1 Tim, I completely agree with you that – when in the military – one should conform to “the Uniform Regulations and the UCMJ” and act in a professional manner. After all, a war-faring organization should have enough discipline and respect not to “make a mockery,” whether it’s openly sexual gay behavior or a female Soldier giving a hardcore blow-job to a male Soldier behind an Iraqi dumpster. Been there, saw that. I suppose none of us can escape our individual perversions, sodomy and all…
Nice try, but you have, er, perverted what I said.
I do NOT condone ANY openly-gay behaviour, nor Adultery in any form. Lewd and Lascivious behaviour should also be prosecuted.
BS Flag. Lying. Offense. Fifteen yards.
I think the story is most likely bullshit too, but I’m really disturbed by the amount of anti-gay activity going on in this thread.
AW1 Tim, here, have a scientific study.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0002282
They have located a gene which tends to increase attraction to men-in women, it increases their fertility, in men it seems to increase homosexuality or bisexuality. Thus, there is an evolutionary advantage in this gene continuing, through the highly fertile women. Or as they put it, a “likely scenario of androphilic phenotypic expression of the GFMH, i.e., an expression that specifically increases the attraction to males in both sexes, rather than inducing a more general phenotypic feminization.” And also, that you should, in a weird way, be happy when there are a lot of gay folks around, because “a higher proportion of homosexuals in a population indicates a comparatively higher total fecundity increment ?f;”
Read the whole thing, it’s fascinating, though admittedly a little technical and dry.
Why do you consider it a perversion? Just because you, personally, think it’s disgusting? I mean, I think young women having sex with ridiculously older men is disgusting, but I don’t try to outlaw it. Different strokes for different folks.
If you want to hold gays in the military to the same standards as everyone else, then fine: no PDAs in uniform, and what they do on their own time is their business. And their spouses or partners should be able to join FRGs, and be welcome at unit parties, and if they want to have pictures of their partners at work, they should be allowed to do so.
Or you can eliminate all spouses completely from the equation, but I don’t really think that’s going to happen.
Also, though I’m still looking for a free link on the internet to the study, there is research that shows that androphilic men have higher avuncular tendencies than gynephilic men. (Men who may not reproduce or are less likely to reproduce themselves assisting their sister’s children, thus increasing their likelihood to survive and reproduce. Men who have higher likelihood to have their own offspring confine themselves to their own or on hope for their own and are not as involved in kin-rearing.)
Anyway, my point is that it’s bullshit to say there are no genetic factors for homosexuality, and it’s therefore bullshit to treat people differently based on it.
And if you’re looking on purely religious grounds, are you going to start saying that soldiers shouldn’t eat at Red Lobster? Eating shellfish is an abomination in the same section of the bible that condemns homosexuality. If you’re Christian, however, you should look to the New Testament, which claims all of the old laws and old ways were overthrown, and that the arrival of Jesus brought in entirely new laws-none of which condemn homosexuality. I defy you to find me one place in the New Testament which condemns it.
The Old Testament is pretty messed up: it also promotes incest (Lot and his daughters), slavery, all kinds of foul things, which, again, if you’re Christian, is one reason the new laws and new way came. Jehovah was a wrathful god. Then through the intervention of the promised Messiah, came paternal love.
The Old Testament was also necessary for its time. For example, the prohibitions about menstruating women bringing uncleanliness, and failing to eat the flesh of various beasts, is good, sound advice in a time when good hygiene was not yet practiced, and there was no refrigeration of meat. Homosexuality might well have been condemned when there were very few people around and there was a need to produce more. However, that’s not the case anymore, and so, new way, new laws.
AS
It isn’t anti-gay. It is purely bullshit that this guy is spinning as we have been discussing in our personal experiences that in no way measure up to his lies. Do you think there are more stories like that? True ones?
Most straight soldiers had more to worry about than harassing gay men or women. As long as they did their jobs and didn’t try what I saw in AIT, I could give two who was or wann’t gay and I would never tolerate that behavior of anyone, or keep quiet if I knew it was going on. Ever.
The point is if they are good people or soldiers that’s what counted.
The majority rules on this one. Most of us have never seen or heard of such nasty treatment of gays. And I gotta tell you, out in our small unit, of 50, there were four gay women and three men. Nothing doing in my unit with harassment.
Spare us your anti-gay. It isn’t. It’s about the lying and boo-hooing for attention. “I didn’t ask, I didn’t tell…” Wah.
defendUSA:
If you will notice, in my first sentence, I said I thought the story was bullshit. I just didn’t like AW1 Tim’s crack on every gay in existence.
I’ve seen, in my time in the military, some anti-gay stuff. None of it rises to the level of that story. I’ve also seen some gay-tolerant stuff. From what I saw, lesbians were tolerated a lot more than gay men were. However, there are noted exceptions: I had a gay platoon sergeant who used to roll with a rainbow bumper sticker and had his farewell in a gay bar. Nobody cared.
However, I’m in the MI field. From what I’ve heard, there’s a lot more anti-gay in the infantry, for example, and other “traditionally macho” combat MOSes.
No one want`s a “Butt Dart Boy” in the foxhole with him….
We never had time for anything other than doing our jobs and getting some rest in between when in the Navy. Never saw anyone ever insulting anyone we assumed was gay. Definitely someone passing their dreams on to try and make it a reality.
AS: I think what was being pointed out by DefendUSA was your attempt to bring in your opinion and state it as fact, in the field of genetic pre-disposition. Just as AW1 Tim has a right to his opinion, you have a right to yours, however, it is just your opinion, not fact, and you should have stated it as such.
I would also like to take exception to your use of a bias indicator in your qouted blurb, “traditionally macho”, makes it sound like you’re kind of jealous. I wasn’t in a “traditionally macho” mos, however, that didn’t stop me from being in a “traditionally macho” combat unit, where only “traditionally macho” men were allowed in the unit. Sorry, no “traditionally macho” women were allowed. I didn’t make the rules, I was just supposed to follow them.
Also, I especially like how you can pull one, or two, comments out of entire thread and make it seem as though there is sooooo much anti-gayness in the comments. If you would put down your leftist dogma and actually look at the comments on this thread, I think you will find that most all comments say the same thing: The story is bs and who gives a shit if someone is gay. Your training/indoctrination in the leftist ways won’t allow you to admit that, so you have to cherry pick a couple out of all of them and then act as though it’s a conspiracy of hate, when none of it is hate, even those that don’t agree with homosexuality.
Marx, Lenin, Alinsky; they would all be proud of you for trying, though. So you’ve got that going for you; which is nice.
AS,
“The amount of anti gay stuff in this thread?”
Besides Steve@#20 (who may be a troll) what are you refering to? Everything here has been supportive of gays in the military and AW1Tim made no crack that I can find. Any milblog that I’ve read has been largely supportive of gays in the military and most of the ones I follow happen to be right leaning blogs at that.
I originally heard this story on NPR, and it was a bit confusing as to why this guy was being picked on, although the story changed a bit in the Post article. Bu the NPR story was in my opinion well done in that the reporter from something called Youth Radio corroborated his story, or at least the general shenanigans, through interviews with other women and men with a number of others from within that unit. So as far as the lengthy radio report went, it was somewhat believable. However, again, something is not right in that the the supposed IG investigation only got them a very minor reprimand.
OldTrooper:
The problem is that AW1 Tim said there is no evidence anyone is born gay, but there are scientific studies to support that there is a genetic predisposition to homosexuality. This is not opinion, but fact. It’s not my “opinion” that there exist scientific studies, it is a fact.
Yes, I react strongly to someone saying that being gay is a perversion and a “lifestyle choice”. I’ve known far too many gay friends who have had to grow up in the South or Midwest and who desperately wished they were straight, and tried very hard to be straight in order to fit in. They didn’t choose to be gay. They simply were. It’s like if someone said I made a “choice” to be attracted to men. I have no choice. Women simply do not and have never appealed to me. Men, I’m naturally crazy about. I was born that way.
When I say “traditionally macho”, it’s not out of jealousy. I have nothing against infantry, or the fact that women can’t be in the infantry. Some of my best friends are/were infantrymen, however, and the stories they tell about the stuff that went on in the units make me roll my eyes a lot. It sounded like there was a lot of male ‘macho’ behavior simply because it was all men together who were encouraged to behave as badly as they could because there were no women. I’ve also heard stories about infantry soldiers refusing to salute female officers simply because they were female.
You may be right in that there wasn’t a lot of anti-gay, except for AW1 Tim and some other anonymous items. I saw it, I leaped to the defense of the gay friends I’ve had without stopping to count how many individuals had actually spouted it. It happens.
Also, I don’t know who Alinsky is, but Marx and Lenin can die in a fire. Again.
Like many others here I too spent 20 plus years in the service (Army). This is B.S. I knew many gay service members and really, as long they did their job, no one gave a rats a@#. Heck I know one WO1 that brought her own girl-friend on a support mission.
Roche is B.S.
Old Tanker Says: Besides Steve@#20 (who may be a troll)……
I was being ironic in my last statement.
I personaly dont care if some one is gay or not. As a civilian.
But know that you want to get all serious about it & call me names.
An “Old Tanker” would have to agree with me.
Politically correct or not.
Whether or not you want to admit it we all know none of the Combat arms wants to have this “Extra” problem to deal with when they are trying to stay alive. You need to have your buddy watch your back, but not like that…
AS is correct in that being gay isn’t a lifestyle choice but is something they are born with. This is evidenced by their well-documented identity struggles where many try very hard to bury their propensities. And this isn’t my opinion but what I view as a verifiable fact. So from a breeding standpoint, yes it does defy logic. But if you can accept that most homosexuals are born with it, then that too is natural in its own way and shouldn’t be discriminated against.
Okay, Bob, AS: If the scientific studies are so fricken drop dead correct (it depends on the science, because I’m currently dealing with 1-3 inches of global warming); please explain the bi-sexuals? You can’t and this thread isn’t about that topic. This thread is about a made up bullshit story to further a victimhood in order to get everyone to rally around the “poor little darling” and to make a lame attempt at either sullying the name of a real person that may have possibly upset this person, or furthuring their own personal agenda. I ain’t buying it. I don’t have to qualify anything I say by adding that I have gay relatives and friends, either. Many use that tactic in order to either add credibility to their statements, or to attempt to ward off scrutiny and rebuttals.
I’m not about to get into whether it is a choice or genetics. Fact or fiction. Natural or un-natural. I don’t care, it doesn’t matter. What does matter is if someone says that they have the right to shove in my face and say I have to accept it. I don’t HAVE to accept anything. The only thing I HAVE to do is die and pay taxes.
OldTrooper,
I agree that the gay issue shouldn’t be shoved into the faces of our military members. While on duty, I have had many debates about this with people who are excellent human beings. I think the gay issue should be included and accepted only so much as we are with the regularly required EO briefings where race and gender are shoved in our faces. Other than that, it doesn’t and shouldn’t have to dominate the real work being done.
But to the point, there are a lot of things that don’t add up about this particular story. Even if true, it is an isolated incident that is not indicative of the military and only serves to sensationalize the issue. For that, I agree and instead am looking bigger picture.
As for global warming, I think you’re confusing “global warming” with “climate change.” 🙂
AS, My comments are factually correct: There are NO scientific studies that prove homosexuality is anything other than an acquired lifestyle choice, or a genetic defect. Nada Zip. Nothing. I read through the one you listed, as I have read through others. All that those studies indicate is that there might be linkage between genetic makeup and homosexuality. That same linkage, though, if it exists, and those articles are a VERY big “IF” could well exist because of a defect in the DNA sequence, or some other deficiency associated with personal development that results in a pre-disposition to homosexuality. In other words, no NORMAL human being is “born” gay. Having said that, it’s time to get back on the track of this thread. The fellow (Roche) in question put forth an outrageous claim about his treatment in the Navy. I NEVER witnessed anything like that, and I called BS on his story. As someone else pointed out, there were too many players involved for word NOT to have gotten out and heads rolled as a result. Especially with a Chief Petty Officer (E-7/9) that simply wouldn’t happen anywhere outside of a fevered imagination or an Oliver Stone film. The real-world, honest-to-goodness fact is that Homosexuals have served, are serving, and will serve honorably in our military. Virtually everyone couldn’t care less. As long as they are professional, competent, and show up for work, who cares? I didn’t and still don’t. The great objection is the “in your face” attitude that those supporting the end of DADT have. It’s all about them BEING homosexuals. It’s all about THEM and THEIR desires, and NOT about military service. And guess what? As soon as DADT goes away, the REAL and serious problem will begin. The diversity industry will be all over this like flies on stink, and every frikkin’ command will be forced into sensitivity seminars and “Gay Pride” celebrations, etc. That will lead to problems that you don’t even want to imagine. If the homosexuals want to serve, then let them. Just make certain that they are treated EXACTLY as everyone else.… Read more »
Bob: Lol!!! Yeah, the global warming crowd found that it isn’t warming so they changed the cause to “climate change” in order to keep the funds coming in (at least in Algore’s case).
As for the story, yeah, if it’s real, which I doubt, then you are correct, it’s an isolated incident. The problem is the media doesn’t discern such nonsense and in reality, revel in putting it front and center to try and create a “crisis” when there is none.
The Old Testament is pretty messed up: it also promotes incest (Lot and his daughters), slavery, all kinds of foul things, which, again, if you’re Christian, is one reason the new laws and new way came. Jehovah was a wrathful god. Then through the intervention of the promised Messiah, came paternal love.
Here’s a person who’s never read the Bible or understood it’s cultural-theological context. The Bible ‘records’ such behavior, but never ‘endorses’ it. Polygamy and other deviances were tolerated, but never condoned.
Did you ever read Leviticus? Don’t attempt to speak authoritatively on things you know nothing of.
There are gays in the Dutch army.
We should make our Army just like theirs…
(note: snarky comment)
Steve,
I wasn’t calling you names for the sake of calling you names, I thought you might have been trying to stir the pot.
My opinion is that the “extra problem” units would have to deal with are disciplinary in nature, dealing with the few soldiers that will invariably mess with gay soldiers. My guess is that it was the same when the military started integrating black and white soldiers together as well. In a foxhole with bullets flying, I don’t think most would give a shit unless of course they were one of the few that were giving that gay soldier grief. Just this Old Tanker’s opinion!
OldTrooper: Being a citizen of the United States of America means that a lot of people have to accept things that they or their prejudices may not necessarily like. There are a lot of racists out there, but they HAVE to accept that if they want to go out in the world, there are going to be black people and no segregation there. There are a lot of sexists out there, but the ones in the army with integrated MOSes HAVE to accept that they will serve besides them. What does “Accept” mean in your context? And how does mere existence “Shove it in your face”? Is your coworker at work “shoving” his heterosexuality in your face if they display pictures of their kid and wife up? Do you get up in arms about that? What about reunions, when a unit gets back from deployment? Do you feel like you are being forced to accept something intolerable when you watch soldiers welcomed home by their partners with kisses and tears? Nobody’s asking that they be allowed to have sex on the commander’s desk, and there are /already/ rules against PDA in uniform. AW1 Tim: You’re speculating, and have no scientific studies to back you up. However, are you aware that the military ALREADY has special diversity celebrations? In fact, usually it’s months. Last week I went to a Hispanic celebration at the DFAC. The month before that it was women. I’ve seen Asian heritage months. I’ve seen Black heritage month. The military also ALREADY has sensitivity training and seminars. They’re called EO (Equal Opportunity) and POSH (Prevention of Sexual Harassment). Those could be expanded to include gays very simply. Richard Romano: I’ve read the entire bible cover to cover multiple times, in multiple different versions. Unfortunately, I don’t have my bookmarked one with me at the moment. However: “(Genesis 19:30-33) And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. And the firstborn said… Read more »
OldTanker:
I think you’re right on what the integration problems would be-or the integration problems when they first had women. However, I don’t think those integration problems are enough to turn away dedicated Americans who want to serve their country.
Obama will never lift “don’t ask don’t tell.” He’ll talk a big game then do nothing like all the other Dems. There is no way they can force an openly gay military on our 1 million existing member force.
AS, spare me the ‘You’re not patriotic unless you support my (fill in the black) agneda’. It doesn’t make sense when the Democratic Underground freaks scream it, and it doesn’t make sense when you try to browbeat others with it here.
Careful when you go around quoting the Bible too. The OT talks a bunch about teh ghey…and what you should do about it. Ask your buddies the Iranians about how Mohammed felt about it, or the Taliban. Oh, wait…you’d need to go to Afghanistan for that.
Sorry.
dutch508:
I didn’t try to claim you weren’t patriotic. I accept that a person can love their country and have different ideas than I do. I just pointed out that there are laws in this country and any citizen has to abide by them. Also, my point is that the OT was replaced by the NT.
so…., AW1 Tim could choose to perform oral sex on men and like it just as much as any sex act with a woman, but just chooses not to?
either everyone has the ability to choose to do it, or only some do. I guess Tim is atracted to ALL women and has no specific preference that limits who he feels sexualluy and emotionally attracted to.
“Party hard on leave” and open talk of sexuality is in your face only when gay people do it? I guess when straight people do it it’s just……. a lifestyle choice.
As far as this story if it’s true it should be punished and if not it should be clearly stated so. Things like that would rarely happen, it is more important to repeal the flawed DADT policy that stops the more frequent smaller harassment from being reported out of fear of discharge. repeal would have left little to know excuse for not reporting this. after repeal gay people will have all the same joys of being denied justice that many rape victims do.
I don’t think I’ll change Tims mind but the policy will be repealed and maybe his kids minds will be more open.
Jen…don’t get your panties in a twist,okay? I personally love lesbians,in fact,quite truthfully, I am a lesbian trapped in a mans body,I especially love lesbian strippers like yourself,but you are getting way off track on this thread,please reread the comments and then give us your input as related to the original thread!Thanks and nothing but love for ya :o)
I’m with NHSparky and the rest calling BS on this story. Like Sparky and some others on here, I was a Submariner and we made a fine art of messing with the new guys, but shit like this would have NOT been tolerated. Where the he’ll was this guy’s Div Officer? Where were the other Chiefs? This sounds like a major case of paranoid fantasy to me.
As for working with gays… I’m a male Nurse who does theatre. Think I’ve ever worked with gay people? I could give a shit where you stick your pecker after work as long as you do your job.
AS, I am way more old testiment than new…
Jen,
Or maybe my kind’s minds will not be filled with the propaganda of the left, and be able to see through all the BS “I’m Okay, You’re Okay” moral relativism that the left has tried to force upon society in order to support it’s acceptance of deviant behaviour?
Homosexuality is not a normal state in any species. We tolerate it because there is always a certain percentage of any society that has some sort of mutation. As long as it’s between consenting adults, and is kept out of view, no one will push back. When it raises it;’s ugly head and tries to force itself upon society as a “normal” behaviour, then you will get a load of pushback, and rightly so.
Keep it in the closet where it belongs and you will find a lot smoother sailing on the sea of life. Make waves, and you are likely to be thrown overboard to lighten the load. It’s always been that way, it always will be that way.
Word.
That would be “my kind’s” not My kinds.
My old eyes play tricks from time to time. 🙂
Ah.. my kid’s.. not my kinds…. I oughta take up drinking.
Sigh.
Or slow it down to a six pack an hour. LOL
AS,
Kosher rules described in the OT bible were for food safety reasons as the period when the bible was written was not known for its hygiene standards. Cheese spoils before meat, trichinosis in pork, the germs from spoiled cheese can contaminate flatware, shellfish allergies, etc. These are the rules that keep you safe would be ignored. Pronouncing that G-D says to follow these rules, now that gets noticed. As for the no sex while menstruating or no sodomy rules- think about it. Waste of sperm (reduced birth rates) and could cause ectopic pregnancies which could cause death. So again, pretty commonsensical reasons besides the whole unhygienic thingy again.
As for queers in the military, served with a few. Talking sex at the workplace is inappropriate, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
AS: you’re taking this off topic. I could spend an hour talking to you face to face about what is and isn’t being shoved in our faces. The fundamental idea, that you, yourself, put forth is as an American, I have the freedom, or at least I’m supposed to, to decide for myself what I accept and don’t accept. Also, those that feel “offended” and want provisions put in place so that they aren’t “offended”, or have their feelings hurt, are actually infringing upon my rights in order to satisfy their own personal ideals. I’m sorry, but there is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that says you have the right to not be offended or your feelings hurt. Just as I said, before, I don’t have to accept shit. Just as a homo doesn’t have to accept heteros, if that person chooses, that doesn’t mean they can’t be civil and follow live and let live, but the more militant types feel they need to have special protections and priveleges that put them above another. That is the definition of shoving it in my face. I’m a white male; I’m the most discriminated against person in this fricken country, yet you don’t hear me bitching about it. You didn’t hear me bitching when I went to college, because there was a 2 year waiting list for my program, yet if I was a woman, or other minority/protected class, I could have started the next semester. Nope, I just put my time in and waited. As for doing anything in front of me, well, I have witnessed the “gay pride” parade in action and heteros wouldn’t be able to get away with the level of obscene behavior displayed during the “parade”, without being arrested, yet we are expected to applaud such and we dare not speak out against it, because we would be discriminating or being a homophobe? If someone wants to sweap spit with someone of the same sex, hold hands, etc. I don’t care and you have your pre-conceived notion of what I was saying in my… Read more »
Make the pain stop…..
Tomorow will be a GREAT day in Wiesbaden!