Russia’s Military Gets “Frisky”, Part 2
We’ve now seen what the current group of spineless, fearful naifs screwing up by-the-numbers in DC Administration elected to do regarding the recent buzzing of a US warship in international waters by Russian military aircraft. Specifically, they told Russia, “That wasn’t very nice!” – by sending a diplomatic protest – along with publicly saying, in effect, “Please don’t do it again. That could have ended badly.”
Well, it appears Russia has given us their reply. Last Thursday, a Russian SU-27 “barrel-rolled” a US RC-135 operating in international airspace over the Baltic Sea. The Russian aircraft reportedly came within 50 feet of the US aircraft while doing so.
OK, Mr. President – this time, Putin has not only given the US the finger with both hands. He’s also mooned the Statue of Liberty, too. And he did both while shouting Russian insults. Your move.
Here’s my prediction, based on past examples of “leadership” from this gaggle of feckless fools Administration. Look for another “strongly worded diplomatic protest” tomorrow or the next day, along with another meaningless public platitude or two from the SECSTATE.
Sheesh. Putin and his cronies must be about to p!ss their pants from laughing at us so hard. And from my perspective, that’s not terribly funny at all.
Category: "Teh Stoopid", "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", Air Force, Foreign Policy, Military issues
Here’s hoping that this is only happening because the Russkies were bored, not part of something bigger.
In other news, Putin farts in our general direction.
TOW: IMO it’s only happening because Putin knows the current Occupant, 1600 Penn Ave, doesn’t have the stones to do a damn thing short of an overt armed attack on US forces or territory. And I’m not positive he’d order anything significant even in the latter case.
“IMO it’s only happening because Putin knows the current Occupant, 1600 Penn Ave, doesn’t have the stones to do a damn thing short of an overt armed attack on US forces or territory.”
Is it bad that my first thought was that Obama was going to order an attack on us and wondered who or where he would order the first attack against?
I agree that it was probably pilot hijinks. Pilots are known for their testosterone poisoning, aren’t they?
Historically, Russia and other former Warsaw Pact Air Forces – as well as North Korea – have operated in a highly centralized manner. That’s particularly true when it comes to interacting with foreign aircraft or ships operating in international waters.
The specifics may well have been left up to the pilot. But I’d bet $20 against a cup of coffee that the intercept and harassment was intentional – and was given the “green light” at high levels within Russia’s air defense community.
You’re right.
If I had been on that mission, I would still be in shock…as I cleaned out my flight suit.
That pilot’s actions were beyond the pale. Something THAT drastic never happened to me. Drastic stuff did happen. Just not that fucked up.
This incident is really us poking the bear, not the other way around. We are demonstrating to the Russians that we will not cede the Baltic to them, and this is their reaction. This was not the pilot’s decision, it was a calculated move, part of Russia’s expansion in the Baltic. It is Putin trying to show us that he still controls this part of the world. That said, this kind of thing happens quite often, and it has been going on for years- as Cav points out below, it has happened to this particular ship a few times. Here’s what’s going on- go look at the map of the region, and you will see this little province of Russia wedged in between Poland and Lithuania. The capital of this province, Kaliningrad, is a major Russian naval base, one of two that gives them access to the Baltic. The other is St Petersburg., which is actually on the Gulf of Finland. This little chunk of Russian territory is strategically important t Russia, and it is surrounded by NATO nations on all sides, and NATO navies at sea. This incident was in international waters about 70 miles from Kalingingrad. We have every right to be there as do the Russians. The Navy is really good at this- they’ve been doing it for years all over the world, both in the air, on the surface, and with subs. The Swedish navy has been chasing a few Russian subs recently. Had we shot down that aircraft, it would have been an act of war. It probably wouldn’t have come to that, but Russia may well have used it as an excuse to expand on the ground- as a ‘defensive move to protect their territory from NATO aggression.’ I have no doubt that NATO would win at sea. On the ground, however, it would be a different story. None of the NATO partners are anywhere near as strong as they used to be, and even the US only has two light brigades permanently in Europe (an Airborne Brigade and a Stryker Brigade; we rotate… Read more »
“That said, this kind of thing happens quite often, and it has been going on for years- as Cav points out below, it has happened to this particular ship a few times.”
Missions get reacted to, but NOT to this dangerous level.
And I understand that the Russians may want to claim the Baltic as their own since they’re basically landlocked, but they will probably get an argument from Germany, Poland, Sweden, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland.
The Russians have the same attitude toward the Baltic that the Chinese have toward the South China Sea. If they continue their aggressiveness, nothing good will come of either situation.
There have been rare instances of such dangerous actions, but they are very rare (I have lots of experience with this) and Russia needs to dial back their tantrum and stop sucking their thumb.
For out part, it would take quite a lot for us to get to a shootdown scenario, but the skipper of the destroyer could and should have lit his up with fire control radars long before he ever got close to the ship.
They need to play nice with their neighbors and us.
Russian fighters did a Top Gun style barrel roll over one of our aircraft just a few days ago…
Red, as I suggest below, do you think it’s possible that the Cook has enhanced snooping capabilities and the Russians either know or suspect it? First she was in the Black Sea off Russia’s Crimean naval facilities and now she’s offshore the base at Kaliningrad? Seems a tad coincidental with those two AO’s being so far apart.
Kaliningrad? Do you perchance mean “the German city of Königsberg now occupied by Russia”?
You might want to refrain from lecturing people here about geography and geopolitics, reddevil. Many here appear to know more about the subjects than you – as well as about the history that accompanies them.
Who’s lecturing? I’m just pointing out that this is not about a crazy pilot and a timid captain (or president).
I am not claiming to be an expert. However, I did participate in Shamrock Key in Lithuania a few years ago (I think it is now called Jackal Stone), during which we worked very closely with some of the newer NATO nations. This is the kind of issue we dealt with.
You’re right, the fact that the Russians seized it in WWII and never gave it up even after the collapse of the Soviet Union is a critical piece of this. Call it what you will, Putin claims it and clearly sees it as a strategic asset.
For a much longer time, Russia also claimed Warsaw as a strategic asset. Ditto Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. That fact is as relevant as the fact that they occupy Kaliningrad today. Specifically, it isn’t necessary to understand the situation at hand.
Russia’s actions here are actually quite easy to understand, given their history. And contrary to your assertion, here a US Administration they perceive as weak is precisely what has encouraged them to act aggressively.
Russia has historically done one of two things: aggressively expanded or been invaded. Their history since they were the Dutchy of Muscovy in the 1200s shows little else. In particular, it shows essentially zero significant periods of static, peaceful coexistence with her neighbors.
When Russia has strong neighbors, Russia refrains from attempts at expanstion. When their neighbors show weakness, they attempt to expand – either in terms of territory, or in terms of other influence.
Here, they are merely “pushing the envelope” to see what their primary adversary, the US, will do. They will continue to do that until they find the limits of our tolerance.
So far, they haven’t found that in Crimea, the Ukraine, or elsewhere. And so long as we give them indications we will continue to “back off” and do nothing, they will continue to “push the envelope” aggressively.
You’re kind of making my point for me, Hondo. We are operating in Putin’s back yard, and he is going to see what we do if provoked.
If your argument is that Putin is a bad guy and Russia is a crappy neighbor, I will readily concede that. But, just because they are bad guys doesn’t make them stupid or irrational.
The fact is that this is chess and we lost this game several years ago- we made a bad move after Desert Shield/Storm and there is no recovering from it quickly.
We may be able to do a few things tactically, but strategically and operationally we have no hope of winning a conflict with Russia in Europe. This was determined when we pulled everything except an Airborne brigade and a Stryker brigade out of Europe, and allowed NATO to atrophy to the point of uselessness. This compared to 25 years ago when we had two full corps, each complete with two reinforced heavy divisions and an ACR, and the German Army alone had thousands of tanks.
Now we have two brigades that would be overwhelmed very quickly, and we would not be able to get reinforcements over in time to do much of anything. Putin knows this.
So, while it would have seemed tough to shoot down that airplane, it might be just the thing Putin is looking for.
So, once again, this isn’t about a rogue fighter pilot and a destroyer captain with no balls. It was a calculated move by a master of the game. No argument from me that the US is clueless, but shooting down that jet would have been a very bad move.
Not really. You’re missing mine. It’s not about Putin. It’s not that Russia is a “bad neighbor” – other than in far eastern Alaska, they aren’t our neighbor. And it’s not about a potential war in Europe that no one, including Russia, wants. Rather, it’s about how Russia very predictably acts whenever they are faced with weak or irresolute opponents. Their history shows us what to expect; we’re willfully ignoring foreseeable behavior on their part. Regardless of location, historically Russia expands where (a) they have an interest in doing so, (b) have any conceivable opportunity, and (c) only stops when the perceive a resolute opponent that will make it more expensive for them to continue expansion than to cease and desist. They virtually always have interest in doing so; therefore, (b) and (c) control. Expansion need not be territorial. It can be in the terms of increasing influence, proxy actions, or denial of areas/actions available to an adversary. Intimidation tactics on the high seas are a primary example of the last. Yes, this current example of provocative behavior occurred near Russia. Others, however, have occurred elsewhere – as in the patrolling of the Gulf of Mexico by a Russian submarine within the past 3-4 years. Even during the height of the Cold War, I don’t believe they ever tried that stunt. Ditto their current expansion into the Middle East (e.g., Syria). They’ve wanted to do so for probably two centuries, but were prevented by other major powers that opposed them. Now, they’ve done exactly what they wanted – and we sat on our hands and at most said, “That isn’t very nice.” It’s Russia’s nature. As a nation, it’s what they have done historically and will continue to do. Governments may change quickly, but national character changes only on a much longer time scale – if at all. Mark my words: so long as we (and others) keep doing nothing with respect to such provocative actions on the high seas and elsewhere by Russia, they’ll keep “upping the ante” until they run into opposition. They’ve been acting in that same… Read more »
Well, it’s obviously our fault for having assets where the Russians were going to be operating.
We need to apologize, promise not to do it again, and have Kerry give Putin a nice, sloppy BJ as a way to smooth things over.
“What’s Obama going to do next?”
Putt out and go to the next hole.
“Russia is deploying its ballistic missiles and attack submarines in numbers, range and aggression not seen in two decades”
Add another wrinkle.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/15/politics/mark-ferguson-naval-forces-europe-russian-submarines/?iid=ob_lockedrail_topeditorial
No great surprise. When an aggressive nation’s adversary appears to show signs of weakening or being irresolute, that aggressive nation often probes to see where the new “red lines” of their apparently-weaker opponent really lie. They then adjust their own practices to include what was once forbidden.
We saw it in Africa and the Middle East during the Carter Administration. And again in Europe and Africa during the Clintoon Era.
Given this Administration’s “sterling record” in forcefully protecting US interests overseas, seeing it again today is IMO no great surprise.
I remember when a Chinese pilot did this and it ended up causing an international incident.
Yeah, Flag – but in that case, the same pilot had pulled similar stunts several times before. During the last incident, the guy simply got a bit to cute, hit the US aircraft, and offed himself. Unfortunately, the US aircraft aborted to China afterwards.
That incident occurred less than 90 days into the Bush-43 Administration. My assessment is that it was a continuation of probing begun during the Clintoon Era that went bad. Intentional to a point, then followed by human error or a random occurrence that caused a major incident.
“Unfortunately, the US aircraft aborted to China afterwards.”
I’m pretty sure that Shane Osborn, the EWAC pilot on that flight, got a DFC for that action. He brought home the bacon getting them to Hainan Island. I am fucking amazed that he got the bird on the ground without crashing it.
I can’t imagine what it must have been like BEFORE he got control of the bird. I wouldn’t have needed to shit for a month.
If Osborn ever has to pay for a beer when in the company of one of his VQ-1 crewmates, said crewmates should be immediately shot…by Osborn. They owe theiir lives to him.
And the PRC pilot was very much out of the ordinary. As I mentioned in other posts, crazy fuckers like that are few and far between.
Osborne did in fact receive a DFC for that action. It was indeed a fine bit of flying.
It certainly was the best course of action with respect to the welfare of the aircraft’s crew. Whether that was the course of action that best safeguarded US national interests is another question.
Of the highly sensitive items on board the aircraft, I do not believe that precisely what was compromised and what was successfully destroyed has ever been released. Frankly, I doubt that precisely what was on-board and what was compromised will be publicly released during my lifetime.
Without knowing that, it’s impossible to say one way or another.
I wasn’t there, so I won’t second-guess the guy. But I will say I wonder sometimes.
In the first thread about the USS Donald Cook, I asked whether we had entered a time warp. The reason was that back in 2014—on 12 April, to be precise–the Cook was operating in the Black Sea when two Russian SU-24 approached her. For the next 90 minutes, one or the other fighter made low-altitude passes of the Cook and attempts by the Cook to radio the a/c brought no response from the pilots. The Navy Euro Command called the incident unprofessional and provocative. The Cook retreated to port immediately thereafter. Fast forward two years to the day of that incident and the Cook is in the Baltic Sea when what? Two SU-24s did it again, this time coming closer to the Cook. Not willing this time to stand pat on what a Navy captain alone says this time around, no less than Secretary of State John “Jungle Patrol w/ Cameraman” Kerry was authorized to call the latest incident “provocative.” Clearly, we are really pissed this time. (This is not pilot hijinks, PN. The fighters were on a mission and fulfilled it, just as they had in 2014.)
Should “ping” some of their boomers, buzz a Russian naval vessel and put an airshow on around one of their recon aircraft, instead of sending them a “hurt feelings report”
I think they would understand that far better and have far more respect for us if we just gave it to them back, like we used too…no shooting, but it gets the message across “Don’t Tread On Me”
Alas … that would require REAL leadership and a spine.
Multinational Baltic States/U.S. exercise, no Rooskies allowed.
This is the second time this particular ship has been involved in such an incident in less than two years and in two locations far apart (Black Sea and Baltic) but both sensitive naval operations areas, Crimea and Kaliningrad, for the Russians.
I just have to wonder if the Cook isn’t outfitted with some special intel gathering capabilities beyond what’s normal for an Arleigh Burke class destroyer and the Russians know more about it than we do.
Maybe if Russia buzzed a golf course it would get Obama’s attention.
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/615/img/photos/2012/03/31/9c/4a/030112_spt_honda_a_1371853a.JPG
The Marines hold the umbrellas and the Secret Service holds these…
Oh, I think it’s payback for the Mexican standoff that Krushchev lost.
Not sure that Khrushchev really “lost” much during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Ex-PH2. Maybe nothing.
Yeah, he publicly “backed down”. But in return, we guaranteed we would not invade Cuba – and the USSR retained the right to station forces there, so long as they weren’t “combat forces”. We also agreed to remove a bunch of nuclear missiles from Italy and Turkey.
The fact that his economic programs weren’t working out all that well is IMO more the real reason behind Khrushchev’s ouster a year later. Well, that and the fact that Brezhnev and his faction wanted to take over and run the USSR themselves. (smile)
Not to worry, folks. When Hillary becomes CinC every American naval vessel will be equipped with a very large, bright red Re-Set Button in clear sight on the bridge wing for ship’s captains to push to prevent any further such occurrences.
That cunning Hill, she knows what works, doesn’t she?
As you may recall, the button actually said “Overload”. Seems the State Department translators got it wrong…
The difference is a single letter in Russian, but you’d think they’d be more cautious.
I think that Das Hildebeast Cankles would want the Navy and the rest of the U.S. Military to be more like this:
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/
Are the Russians trying to find out if their jammers work yet? If so, I wouldn’t rise to the bait, just to keep them guessing.
I hear this was a hoax.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
And John KarrymebacktowestVietnam, unleashes a brigade of James Taylors and the Russians surrender at dawn…