Hunter: SEALs complain about “weapons carousel”
California Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter tells Fox News that Naval Special Warfare operatives complain to him that their personal weapons are being rotated between troops leaving and entering the combat zones. That it’s not the problem that there isn’t money enough for each SEAL to have his own weapon, but rather, it’s a case of the penny-pinching perfumed princes at the Pentagon looking for ways to afford a housekeeper or cook at their flag officer’s quarters.
The problem isn’t a lack of money, according to Hunter. Congress has frequently boosted the budgets of special operations forces in the years since the 9/11 attacks, he said. Rifles also are among the least expensive items the military buys, leading Hunter to question the priorities of Naval Special Warfare Command, the Coronado, California, organization that oversees the SEALs.
“There is so much wasteful spending,” he said. “Money is not reaching the people it needs to reach.”
Yeah, well, this is not my shocked face. The people who need equipment the least are the ones who get it first. We made our first trip into Iraq in Woodland camouflage BDUs while all of the forklift drivers in the port had desert fatigues. The only way I got my troops new socks was because one of my troops was married to a woman in the support battalion. One of my infantryman walked out of both pairs of his boots and it took an IG complaint to get him a new pair while every POG in KKMC had two brand new pairs of desert boots. I guess things don’t change.
I’d use someone else’s underwear before I’d share my rifle.
Category: Big Pentagon
But there’s plenty of money for all of the higher-ups to have all of their perks and luxuries, when was the last time some unit’s band had to do without something?
” I’d use someone else’s underwear before I’d share my rifle.”
I know where you can get some nice sized, gently used Spandex, cheap.
/I’m sorry
//No, no I’m not.
😀 😀 😀
“Gently used”… so fucking wrong… so wrong
“This is my rifle.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.”
Being an Army POG, I never memorized the Marine Creed. But I hope this comes close enough to get the point across.
And I share Jonn’s sentiment. I’d rather share my toothbrush, then my weapon.
I still have my last weapon’s serial number memorized.
When I walked into the arms room before training, I’d rattle it off and they’d say “what is that?” “Its the serial number” “Oh, uh, what’s the butt number?” I knew that too.
Some junior Soldiers were amazed I had it memorized.
When I went through basic training, we had to have it memorized or we’d get smoked. What the hell BCT Drills? They memorize those Yoga poses for physical training, but don’t know to memorize a weapon S/N? (Do they even get weapons these days because they might hurt themselves?)
I told my CSM, “Uh CSM, troops don’t know their weapon S/Ns….” Which basically to him was me saying, “Your 1SGs aren’t doing their jobs, WTF?”
It seems like the guys who do the work always get screwed, be it rifles or boots.
When I was in the Navy I remember seeing guys working the flight deck with duct tape holding their boots together. The supply guys would not issue new boots because it was always the end of the fiscal quarter.
Of course there was also an admin chief (YNC) who was drawing flight deck pay and guys in the line shack had to rotate who got it….
I know exactly what you’re talking about. AZ’s, AK’s, and the Maintenance Control Chiefs drawing a Flight Deck Pay skin while the guys that actually worked the deck had to rotate. Those office bitches always had the nice new looking Jerseys and LOX boots too.
Going up for a fucking FOD walkdown once a day when no jet or Helo is turning should not be enough to give them a skin…but it did.
This is nothing new… I remember reading an autobiography (I want to say it was Fuller’s “Big Red One”) of a fella in WWII who was complaining that the REMFs got the ‘new’ combat boots while his unit was still wearing shies and leggings on patrol. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were complaints at Marathon that the best bronze was going to folks back home in Sparta.
Bill Mauldin talked about that in his book Up Front. The doggies in Italy were having trouble getting the newer combat boots, and from what he described it was a case of “look there’s so many boots, no one will miss one pair,” to the point where the rear-echelon guys got almost all of them while the actual ground-pounders went without.
That may be… and sounds right. Been a few years since I read it, must be time to do it again. I am blessed with the ability to enjoy a book even after the first time around… by now some books are old friends which can be picked up, opened at random, and I know what is happening, what just happened, and if they are written well enough, what is about to happen – and I don’t mind, I embrace the tale unfolding. I suspect my ‘favorites’ list have all been read in excess of 10 times each.
I was just re-reading Mauldin’s The Brass Ring, and this story was reminding me of the section where he talked about the black market disappearance of huge swathes of goods in the Italian campaign; and how good boots were being bought by infantry for $100 a pair. In WWII infantry salary dollars, no less.
Jonn, the more things change, the more they stay the same. In early 1966 men in my rifle company went out on patrol in fatigues that were in tatters with some men in their stateside-issued, white skivvies. Many men’s socks were worn thin as tissue or nonexistent and their boots were held together with that old reliable: green duct tape.
Then suddenly the “Tail” caught up with the point of the spear and clothing was issued by the tons, including the new jungle fatigues and jungle boots which were much better suited to our combat environment. The volume of issue was so great that troops took surplus clothing into the villes and traded it for, guess what?
Until that is, even the Vietnamese were buried in supplies of American uniform supplies to the point they couldn’t sell it in their black markets. They couldn’t wear it themselves because it was far too large. Shops in every ville had piles of GI socks, skivvies and fatigues with no customers for them. You could probably find some of it still there.
It’s the way of all armies…
I am reminded of a recent TAH thread entitled, “Navel gazing in Colorado Springs” in which Navy Captain Scott Smith was quoted as asking, “How do we get them to trust us?” I’d say the answer is you can’t. If “them” trusted leadership, “them” wouldn’t be reaching out to congresscritters for help. More lobster, captain?
Reading my father’s letters home from WWII, they had the same problem.
The problem with people is they all have human faults and failures. Unfortunately.
I spent the last 5 years of my career as the S4 (Logistics Officer) for a Brigade Combat Team after spending the previous 20 in combat arms.
One of the first things I noticed is that unit level logistics is set up and focused on protecting the Commander. The amount and focus of fiscal regulations, inspections and guidance supports this philosophy. Never once in any logistics inspection was anything ever asked about how your supported troops are being taken care of.
It takes aggressive leadership to shake that philosophy up and to make things work the way they’re supposed to rather that how they are designed to work.
Sir, you know they’re all terrified of having a 15-6 initiated on them :).
I guess they pound that mindset into you so much that it becomes second nature. After getting hit by an IED and seeing an M4 completely burned up my first thought was “Someone’s going to have to account for that…”.
“Combat lost?” (which I learned aboutfrom John Ringo.
For an AR 15-6 investigation on my old unit, I was sent a list of questions about what happened to such and such while I was in the reserves. (“Why did you order and return 52 coats?” A: Because the commander, aka property book holder, wanted to get Gortex; we returned them because they weren’t Gortex. Did you return all your personal stuff? Yes. (Oops, except the unit crests.))
Regulations are written (or they were back then anyway) putting all the onus on the commanders, with a few exceptions for the Property Book Holders–“Commanders will insure” occurred over and over again in AR 710-2 and DA Pamphlet 710-2-1 and 710-2-2. That is, commanders will insure that they don’t lose stuff, follow procedures, etc.
I was downstream, in the rear, in CONUS, in almost peacetime (with exceptions for air patrols over Iraq, operations in Rwanda, the whatever you call it in Somalia, secret squirrel stuff, and probably something I forgot). In other words, I was unit supply, and have no more idea about logistics that anyone else.
“I’d use someone else’s underwear before I’d share my rifle.”
Thank you Jonn, thank you!!!
I’ll be damned if I let anyone else use my weapon unless I am too wounded to return fire. I’d take a case of crotch rot over a poorly maintained rifle any day and three times when I’m shooting back.
I wonder if this goes back to the whole prepositioning argument from about 7-8 years ago. It’s cheaper to leave equipment for the next rotation than it is to pay the baggage fees associated with it; weapons included. Total BS.
So I guess the logical extension to that was to let ISIS hold onto it until we need it again? I wonder if we’re paying them to store all the stuff we left.
Nice one.
I didn’t say I agreed with it, especially when it come to weapons. I just remember when it started.
Its okay, we’re not paying them to store it for us, the Iraqis are paying them to keep it.
This is why battlefield looting went on even when warfare was mechanized. And even then, the surviving troops scrounged whatever they could off the field, because they needed it.
I guess that’s not allowed now, right? Well, it should be.
Actually, I can honestly say I shared my rifles. Gladly. As a true scav, and able to ‘work the system’ I landed a few extra ‘munitions’ while I was in B-dad. These I would loan out to anyone needing to support a mission. To include one Navy SEAL who ended up shorted back then (no joke). Several M4’s, M9’s, and a shotty. My teams knew where to go if it was really needed. They weren’t mine to hoard- they were to ensure we had the equipment!
Wasteful spendimg, you mean like the F-35? The Littoral Combat Ship? Or (sorry Jonn) the Bradley, before the idiots inside the a pentagon got it right?
Let’s also not forget the SGT York, a few barge loads of tax money were dumped on that before it was proven to be worthless. I wonder how many more loads of money are gonna get wasted on the F-35, THE FLYING FUBAR?
That porta potty deserved what it got.
I wish we had YouTube back then.
Here’s one part about it:
That was classic. It brings two questions to my mind:
1. Did anyone do any jail time or get thrown out of the military for the “hits” on the drones, or anything else?
2. Is the Stryker a failure like this? I’ve not heard any talk about the Stryker as a turd.
I seem to remember the CG of Bliss was invited to retire (and walk right into a VP job at the local power and light). Still remember seeing a lot full of ’em parked at Bliss, probably waiting to be sold for scrap. Can’t remember his name, he was replaced by MG Infante.
Saw Strykers in Mosul 2004 and 8 years later was riding around in one in Qalat.
Apparently they are dependable – never heard too much bad talk about them. Seen a few get the crap blown out of them and apparently make it back. Biggest difference I saw was the disappearance of the TOW and MK19 in Afghan – my guess was ROE. Never saw any MGS where I was.
I once had a CO (Navy Hospital) who refused to have a duty driver unless he was required to do so by protocol. In his years as CO, he didn’t put one dime into ‘improving’ the executive offices. (It didn’t need ‘improvement’ BTW.) He put money where it was needed: In caring for patients and his troops. The troops loved him. I had him again about six years later when he was my CO at another command. He was the same great man. I’ve had other CO/XO/AO who were pretty much about themselves.
I had a BN Commander that the first thing he did was get licensed on every vehicle we had, and then sent his driver back to a Battery. He did everything he could too to put the Soldier first, and it worked.
LTC Jeffrey Shafer (sp). Damn good Commander…
Personal weapons? What are those? I could have sworn the weapons were the property of the military. Are we now complaining that weapons get used by other troops? This is the norm everywhere else in the military.
Exactly,
Weapons dont belong to the individual, they belong to the unit. When we did UDP to Okinawa We left ALL our gear and weapons to the Battalion from 7th Marines that was coming back. In turn when we got to Okinawa we picked up gear they had maintained for the past 6 months.
Not sure what the SEALs would be crying about, unless the weapons were Code H. Its been my experience that the high speed low drag types got top of the line shit.
When I hear “personal weapons” I take that as Personally Owned Weapons, not “my weapon’s S/N is this….I have the weapons card for it.”
Even still, SEALs not having weapons assigned to them that need to be handed off to the next guy coming into theater? That’s pure BS.
Even CA troops are getting M4s before they deploy, then bringing them all the way back. One set is deployed, one set is at MMA being rebuilt/repaired/refurbished/etc.
As few SEALs as there are compared to other troops, this just sounds strange.
MSG, I call BS and don’t think the hole story is being told.
We deploy from home port with are assigned weapons that we 0 and qualified on and trained with. We use the same system NSW does for weapons.
My last deployment to AFG 2012-13 we took all weapons from our armory and we had a 480 Man Battalion. My Det was assigned to SOTF-A 64 Man Village stabilization mission. We all had M4’s with lazars, ACOG’s and NVG’s. We are fucking Seabees so another WTF.They wanted us to have what we needed because we would be at the VSP’s and VSO’s so if we were on our own we could handle are self’s. We worked with SEALs and they had know equipment problems. The team was a EAST coast team just took over from a WEST coast team. They brought weapons from Little Creek and here is the big kicker the support guys with them yes some of my brothers Seabees had SCARS so I call BS on this story.
Now it could make a difference on the mission they were doing because some were doing DA missions and other teams were on the MITT team shit or what ever they called it in AFG. So if doing MITT I would say an M4 would be fine.
The other thing is all of our battalions have all gone to M4’s and they have ACOG’S and EOTHECS for sites and Lazar box’s. So we have that shit then how do the SEALs not have what they need. There is more to this story…
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more to the story Chief. We shall see I’m sure.
When I was in Afghanistan in 11-12, they called the Mitts there “SFAT” Security Forces Advisory Teams.
Ya, I wasn’t sure the SOTF had 2 different big missions one was Village stabilization Platforms and VSO mission that is what we did ODA teams and SEALS and Rangers would do DA missions as part of that and those guys had weapons that needed. The other was the “SFAT” mission and I would say the SEALS assigned to that may have had some issues sorry you get a M4 vice a SCAR and I would say it is something like that. Like I said the Navy is giving us good shit you dam well know that SEALs have shit they need. I would say it is SEAL team perception. Any way OUT…
Spot on Brother, that is how it is done. You take your TOA with you, and send it to Crane when you return. Every time we worked with the SEALs they we never lacking in the best gear.
Our special big Stuff you BEEPed, been going on like that for us since NAM.
It must be nice to have your very own personal Congressman though, to bitch to outside of the proper channels.
Exactly, Were some of the reason the military went to this reap in place on the big stuff because they liked the way we did shit doing turn over and then working like you were the same unit not a new one. BEEP wow not many people know that. Ya, we have top of the line gear now because NECC and NSW.Battalions closed up so now every unit has their own TOA and weapons. Not sharing all the homeport training shit. They just went to all active with M4’S and I believe same with reserves and all the high speed sites. So if the Navy is doing that for us then you know they have shit. Their just mad because they may have use an M4 when training AFG’s while the force on force mission guys need the good shit like SCAR’s. I saw it when I see a brother Seabee CSST team guy with a SCAR and we have M4 ‘s don’t think it is life or death deal with it that is why you passed BUD’s you suck it up…
We were doing that with certain weapons and vehicles in Iraq as well. Its nothing new
When I was in Baghdad in 05-06, our Bde was on the same FOB as our Bn HQ. Our Bn Cdr went almost daily to Bde to ask/beg/plead for a vehicle he could drive around in. He spent two months doing that. Meanwhile, there were about 25 brand spankin’ new SUVs (plastic still on the seats) at Bde parked outside. Multiple were driven by E-4s. (Yet an O-5 Cdr couldn’t get one)
Our Battalion also was receiving “new” M1114 HMMWVs as well because we had some teams still riding around in Haji Armor Hummers. Well, come to find out, they went through Bde first. Bde took apart their Bde PST vehicles, slapped all their equipment into the new vehicles and sent us their old PST vehicles.
In Afghanistan, I was paying out of my pocket for phone cards for cell phones for my whole team because we needed cell phones to do our jobs. Meanwhile, E-4s and E-5s at the BCT HQ were carrying around “Govt” cell phones. My team couldn’t get the Govt funded ones because there were “too many” already issued out.
Out of 5 CA teams in my company, 4 of the teams were paying out of pocket for cell phones to do our jobs so that E-4s could talk to each other and text each other in the Bde HQ building.
This really does not bode will for the Corps. We usually steal out best gear from the Army.
I am unfamiliar with keeping the same weapon from unit to unit. Sounds a little pissy to me, but maybe there is something involved I don’t know about these days.
I keep waiting for the princess of the Army to come up with something other than those scary black guns. I predict a poly receiver group in some soothing neutral color.
Took the trusty old 30-06 to the range after work today. It is one of my personal weapons. Paid tribute to Carlos and tried to make him proud.