Oh, Here We Go…. Again
Crown-of-thorns starfish, photo taken by Jon Hanson/Wiki Commons.
A North Carolina amendment requiring voter ID in North Carolina has been judged to be unconstitutional.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nc-judge-strikes-down-voter-id-amendment
Since it’s an amendment to North Carolina’s constitution, not the US Constitution, it is a local issue. The judge who handed down the ruling says it violates the state’s constitution, and that North Carolina is so gerrymandered, the amendment is biased to deprive black voters of their right to vote.
“Wake County Judge Bryan Collins ruled that a new voter ID amendment and a cap on state income tax, both passed by North Carolina residents in the 2018 midterm elections, violated the state constitution.” – Article.
I’m not sure how requiring a voter ID violates the right to vote, when it is aimed at ending some of the nastier aspects of elections, e.g., dead voters, multiple votes in districts that people don’t live in, etc. It has been declared constitutional at the federal level. https://www.carolinajournal.com/opinion-article/beware-claims-about-unconstitutional-voter-id/
“At the federal level, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the basic concept of a photo ID rule as constitutional. At the state level, a solid majority of voters decided to build a photo identification requirement into the constitution. You can’t get much more constitutional than that.’ – Article.
Chicago/Cook County has possibly the most notorious reputation for vote corruption, although those episodes from the most recent national elections (sudden discoveries of boxes full of ballots, recounts discovering more Trump votes, trashing mail-in ballots, etc.) show that it has definitely spread to other places.
Gerrymandering originated in the US, early on. In New York City, it was used by Boss Tweed, who ran things in his district out of Tammany Hall, and wanted to keep his chokehold on what happened. It isn’t something new. In this case, the term ‘gerrymandered” was applied to the voting areas that voted for this amendment to North Carolina’s constitution. The article does not refer at all to the color temperature of the voters, which leaves one guessing at the judge’s assumptions. People tend to move to places where they feel comfortable and safe. I would not feel that way in Englewood or parts of New York City or San Francisco.
The judge’s opinion of North Carolina? “The North Carolina General Assembly is so gerrymandered that its members don’t truly represent the people of the state and thus should never have proposed constitutional amendments in the first place, Wake County Superior Court Judge G. Bryan Collins wrote in his ruling that was issued late Friday afternoon.
Also, I don’t know why Collins thinks a cap on state income tax is unconstitutional. The Taxed Enough Already (TEA) party got its start with an objection to excessive taxation. However, many states have governors who view the population as a bottomless well of money that they can dip into at will. Unfortunately, when you target a specific group like wealthy people, they’ll go away.
In Illinois, newly-elected Governor Prtizker is already following through on his campaign splotches about raising taxes on people who use the roads a lot. Most likely, he doesn’t know that “road taxes” are built into the taxes per gallon at the fuel pump. I doubt seriously that he ever pumps his own gas at the Citgo or Speedway stations on the highway, nor is it likely that he’s ever pulled into an Iron Skillet truck stop in the middle of a snowstorm, just to get out of the weather. https://www.ta-petro.com/amenities/restaurants/iron-skillet Truckers probably pay more in OTR tax than any other population group, and it’s all buried in fuel taxes and whatever they pay at the toll booths on the interstates.
Like all people of Pritzker’s ilk, he views more taxes as a way to solve the state’s money problems. Accordingly, he’s also got plans for an increased tax on wealthy people. https://www.ilnews.org/news/state_politics/live-updates-pritzker-lays-out-plans-for-illinois/article_62d3a57c-1822-11e9-819d-af3501438900.html
There was a rumor circulating for a while that he would inflict an exit tax on people who move out of state, but it was just a rumor. I guess he thinks people who build megamansions in the suburbs, or who live in expensive condos in the Loop and the North Shore, are going to stay forever, when the reality is that they don’t. It’s easy enough to up stakes and move across the state line into Indiana or Wisconsin, and telecommute. Seriously, if it weren’t for telecommuting, TAH would not exist.
Besides, Pritzker’s net worth is about $5.5 billion. How much is he going to cough up in this plan of his?
It’s just a shame that none of these people have the contact with reality that the rest of us have. That includes Judge Collins in North Carolina.
Here’s a site allowing debate of the voter ID issue: https://www.debate.org/opinions/are-voter-id-laws-unconstitutional
You can go put your $.02 worth into that discussion. Try to keep it short and pleasant.
Why the crown-of-thorns starfish photo? It’s a parasite that kills off entire coral reefs by feeding on the coral polyps. Nasty critter. Kind of like the taxman.
Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", "Your Tax Dollars At Work"
I’ll agree with striking down voter ID laws when I don’t need an ID to buy a gun…..
Now,now. ID requirements discriminate against dead and imaginary voters.
and they limit the number of times you can vote….that’s just needless rationing of democracy
Here’s my surprised face….yet again.
“However, many states have governors who view the population as a bottomless well of money that they can dip into at will.”
I see you’ve been to California.
I went there once. I saw mountains far, far away. Then I came home, where I belong, in the flatlands!
I prefer places where the elevation exceeds the population. I also prefer pine trees to palms. Both criteria are met where I live. “Flatlander” is a grave insult around here.
Contrary to stereotypes of Southern California, I go to the beach maybe once a year, mostly to make sure they haven’t moved it.
I lived there once. I escaped at a young age. I was 7. Dad retired for the AF in 1969, and we headed for Wyoming. Where the elevation greatly exceeded the population. I never looked back.
We have to show an ID for almost every transaction that we do, why not voting? GADLs have a thumb print to further verify you are who it says you are. The only voter fraud that I’ve seen in my decades of voting were boxes of “found” ballots for demon rats. Stacey A is only the latest in sore losers who has claimed voter fraud. One of my biggest fears is that after I’m dead I will become a registered demon rat. Been an independent for decades. Odd how many blacks in GA were Republicans until LBJ came along.
My deepest sympathies for the Brothers and Sisters in Illinois. Served with some boys from the “Land of Lincoln.” Have some very good friends in the southern part near Collinsville/East St. Louis areas. The politics coming from Chicago and Springfield have been a mess for a long time, and appear to just be getting worse. Got in the habit of not spending any money at all on my pass thrus on my way to NE and SD. Last trip, driving, swung way south thru KS and lower MO to come back thru AK to Memphis. Future trips will let Delta drive, quicker and the cost is even a little less.
What will these states do when they run out of working people to tax?
“Time to spare?
Go by air!”
One of my Dad’s favorites.
Saying that people of color are not able to get ID to vote is the most white privilege thing a libtard can say.
The thinking that POC are not capable of getting ID is so racist and so out of touch that only complete idiots can’t see it.
Therefore, I expect someone to come and quote a Vox article anytime now…
Yeah, I’m waiting for that, too.
Thank you!
“People of color” is such a chickenshit term. It’s just another way of saying “nonwhite,” which I’m pretty damn sure is racist. No wonder the lefties say it so much.
partly…it became a “thing” originally to be shorthand to denote more than just one group of people at a time.
I agree that it is co-opted, but I never let than be a reason not to use a good term.
The racists gonna ray-sis…so what can you do?
Study shows that voter id laws lower voter participation or act as a barrier to participation is false:
https://www.nber.org/papers/w25522
I’m thinking I’ve yet to see a simple solution offered by those who promote these laws to combat the whole idea that it hurts participation by minorities and lower income voters.
You can make election day a proper national holiday and offer free IDs to those making less than 60% of the US median or average income which ever gets more people having IDs.
Making election day a national holiday eliminates the need for early voting nonsense because everyone will have the day off with pay that normally has national holidays off and those who don’t could be accommodated by increasing voting hours from 6am – 10pm that should allow police/fire/medical personnel who normally work holidays to have some time outside their shift work to get to the voting booth.
It’s interesting that I can’t buy cough medicine without ID but I can choose a president and governor along with my congressional delegation without anything more than knowing a street address and who is supposed to live there.
I believe it was Georgia where they tried it years ago and even said that you didn’t have to prove income. If you just simply said you didn’t have money they gave you the ID for free….still didn’t work…
A national holiday?
Not only “no,” hell no.
Explain to me why as a business owner I have to pay for someone to do what is a protected right. Explain to me why I have to pay for someone to participate in democracy?
Secondly, I am unaware of any study that shows that early voting increases voting participation. What it does do is make elections more costly. I agree that it should be eliminated.
(Also more people are going to mail in ballots around here.)
As for voting hours, Federal laws require that workers be giving time to vote if their schedule covers the time the polls are open. It is not as if people have to make a choice between working or voting.
As for fire and police, around here the employees are covered by another shift coming in early or late which allows the people to get the polls.
I understand what you are saying, but people fought and died for the right to vote and it is something that we should cherish and not treat as a benefit to be provided.
We went through this drill in Arkansas – twice. Struck down the first time and we prevailed the second because the legislation was smartly written and included alternatives for those without identification. The ACLU and opponents argued requiring voter ID suppressed Black voters. I countered by asking why is it they believe only Blacks are not capable of possess or the ability to obtain free identification, does it not apply to people of other races as well. It was an honor to be named a defendant in both lawsuits and gratifying to prevail. This is part of the national trend to give them everything, including rewriting history, and the other races get nothing. Some sonovabitch in Omaha calls the flag a rag. Another in Little Rock wants to erase the fact Arkansas belonged to the Confederacy from our history. Little Rock even renamed Confederate Blvd because tourists coming from Hilly-Billy airport into Little Rock saw the sign and were shocked, shocked they said.
The best thing about going to Little Rock is leaving.
You know very well why the WLM (white liberal machine) believes that blacks cannot get ID.
Racists always believe that the race they disdain is too stupid to accomplish simple things.
If we apply their logic to the broader world, no black would get drunk, fly, board a ship, serve in the military, graduate from high school, etc.
After all, a person who doesn’t possess a picture ID can’t buy alcohol, drive, board a plane, enlist…and most certainly won’t be able to find their way to a school every day….
The racism of the left is so deep and so entrenched that they can’t even see it.
This judge is a freaking idiot, and should be shown the door pronto. A state judge (Wake County) ruling that a duly-passed state constitutional AMENDMENT is somehow “unconstitutional” under the state’s existing constitution is sheer illogical idiocy. And perhaps one of our lawyer readers will correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think state judges have the authority to rule state laws unconstitutional on Federal grounds. I’m pretty sure that their judicial authority is limited to state law.
By definition, a proposed amendment to any constituion is a change adding something that was previously currently impremissible. That is precisely why the amendment process exists.
The process of amending the NC Constitution requires either (1) approval by 3/5 of the state legislature (both houses), plus an affirmative vote by majority of North Carolina voters; or (2) at a state convention (last used in 1875).
Presumably, the legislative portion comes first and (if the legislature approves) places the issue on the ballot; the popular vote then reaffirms or cancels the amendment. Both appear to have been completed here; and the popular vote was apparently supportive by around a 60-40 split.
Bottom line: this is legislation from the bench of the worst kind. The ruling is asinine; it essentially says “this change to the state constitution, approved by the proper process, will not be allowed because I said so.” It is asinine, illogical, and illegitimate.
“The judge’s opinion of North Carolina? “The North Carolina General Assembly is so gerrymandered that its members don’t truly represent the people of the state and thus should never have proposed constitutional amendments in the first place, Wake County Superior Court Judge G. Bryan Collins wrote in his ruling that was issued late Friday afternoon.”
If that’s the judges legal opinion, then could it not be extrapolated that any law passed in NC would then likewise be unconstitutional and unenforceable? Doesn’t this open the door to any jurisdiction in NC refusing to enforce a state law they just don’t agree with?
This ‘judge’ just opened the door to anarchy.
would that also include the election or appointment of the judge?
Not “anarchy”. Not at all
He means for there to be rulers, just ones obedient to -his- whims.
What he has opened are the kegs marked ” tyranny” and “insurrection”.
Minor critique, Ex-PH2:
1. It wasn’t a state law the judge ruled “unconstitutional” – it was an amendment to the state constitution. That would be like some damn fool judge ruling part of the Bill of Rights unconstitutional because they didn’t like it.
2. Gerrymandering far preceeds Tammany Hall. The term “gerrymander” itself dates to Massachusetts in 1812, where the administration of Governor Eldridge Gerry (hence the name “gerrymander”, originally “Gerry-mander”) created districts of odd shapes designed to keep control of the state senate in his party’s hands. He was successful. However, the practice was used previously as early as 1789, when opponents of Federalist James Madison tried to draw borders for Virginia’s 5th Congressional District so that Madison would be defeated (they failed).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
Thank you, Hondo.
Fixed it, Hondo. Thanks for the heads up!
In a town of less than 500 people all tolled it is pretty obvious who you are. Even if you were brand new everyone would know everything about you by sundown on your first day.
I am all for requiring an ID to vote. Even in my small friendly town. It is the larger venues where the person is a complete unknown to even their neighbors that the requirement needs to be enforced. Be proud to show proof of who you are and vote like you mean it.
Wear that “I voted today” sticker until it falls off. Be seen at the polling place.
I don’t care if you vote or not but at least be seen there.
Besides, the town ladies bake stuff and nobody goes home hungry.
I guess the recent ruling confirming election fraud by the Republican campaign and a republican appointed campaign official occurred in the NC congressional race and ordering a new election is counter to your political narrative so you rather talk about voter fraud.
Let’s be clear; North Carolina has to repeat the 9th district confessional race because of confirmed election rigging.
Voter fraud is so rare that it accounts for <0.0025% of votes. High estimate end. And those votes are split between candidates because republican and Democrat voters commit it at comparable rates.
Even Trump’s own investigative committee disbanded in political embarrassment after their released report cited the same results as previous studies but just used more ominous and scary language to describe the numbers. The math did not change. Voter fraud is statistically negligible.
However, election rigging does effect elections and is a huge problem. Why do you not care when they close polling stations in predominantly democrat neighborhoods?
Election fraud, election rigging, and campaign finance crimes are HUGE issues that legitimately impact elections and undermine the will of the people.
I guess we have to wait until a Democrat does it to a republican for you to care.
You all want to fixate on the one issue that is statistically irrelevant. I am sure that it is entirely a coincidence that voter fraud laws are almost always written in a way that suppress minority turnout or intentionally remove them from voter rolls.
And I do not have an issue with voter if if the law is written without unnecessary onbstacles to obtain the ID and the I’d is ENTIRELY free. Does not cost the voter a dime. Also it can be acquired at any post office as well as every other government location capable of issuing IDs.
You do know the election rigged in that case has spent his career working for democrats and only switched teams because he got a better offer, right Lars? Because that’s both true and pertinent. Election fraud is a democrat tradition almost as old as slavery and segregation.
Bottom line: voter ID rules make election fraud by *anybody* that much harder. If you really care about election fraud, you should support that. Shall we discuss all the evidence of fraud in California’s last few elections? Ballot harvesting, 300 absentee ballots sent to a single residence in LA whose owner wasn’t in on the scam, etc? Yeah, I thought not.
Voter fraud is bad. I don’t care who does it. Whether it’s ballot tampering (by either party), having illegal aliens vote, or a particular candidate buying the DNC nomination, it’s bad. That’s why I support safeguards against it. Quit projecting your bullshit on others.
I can’t prove it, I don’t have any data or references, but I think there’s a lot more voter fraud than 0.0025%. I’m thinking that’s more accurately the percentage caught. It’s also the easiest to fix, by requiring ID. Again, it’s my suspicion. I’m in complete agreement with you on election rigging, it’s a bigger problem and I’m sure it happens on both sides of the aisle. The Democrats seem to be pretty blatant about it though. And some states will provide extremely cheap of free ID through their drivers’ license office. AZ will issue an ID that looks just like a regular license, but it’s stamped ID ONLY.
Looked it up. AZ ID costs $12.00, No cost for those over 65, reduced or waived fee for low income folks. And you can get one for your children as soon as they’re big enough to go to ADOT with you.
If you can scavenge soda cans off the sidewalk to come up with the fee, it doesn’t constitute a burden.
If you need to scavenge cans to get $12 bucks it would be economically irrational to use it to vote.
Voting already is already economically irrational given how negligible a single vote is and the time investment it takes to vote.
We should be making voting as convenient to voters as possible. Closing polling stations, inacting voter ID laws with extra fees and hoops, and opposing a national voter holiday does the opposite of increasing voter participation.
Why don’t republicans want poor, busy, and working class people to vote?
What the hell sense is that supposed to make, dickhead? The point is that voter ID requirements don’t burden anyone except those who seek to cheat elections. You want free IDs valid at polling locations, fine. I could get behind that. The point is, you’re making a mountain out of a grain of sand in opposition to voter ID.
Why do you want illegal aliens and dead people to be able to cast multiple ballots each? See? I can do that shit too.
We do want them to vote. But only once, and only if they are authorized to vote. It’s really that simple. Even a caveman could do it.
Not the point. It cant cost a dime or I don’t support it because the poorer you are the less likely you will vote.
So you’re saying the poor don’t vote… because they’re poor?
An election can only have integrity if two conditions are met.
1. Every counted voter is a legal (and extant) voter.
2. Every voter casts a single ballot.
If you can’t verify those two things, then your election is fucked. Neither of those things can be verified if you don’t verify the identity of each voter and match it to their ballot. Hence, voter ID requirements.
You need to attend one of my seminars. Election fraud is the problem, not voter fraud. Kind of like tooth paste and teeth paste. Voter fraud is usually an unintentional screw up by an older or mentally unstable voter. Election fraud is what occurred in NC with the absentee ballots, planned. It can also be a poll worker telling people how to vote, etc. If these states get real like Arkansas did and just give a freakin ID to anyone requesting, it should be obvious who are citizens without ID and who are bogus. I think the chances of any Black voter over 65 without ID not being a voter are slim unless they are a felon and that can be checked. I would be more concerned about those not clearly “Born in the USA” without ID.
Already happened, Poodle. See the 2008 Minnesota eletion for US Senate where Al “Felon’s Choice” Franken won via unlawful ballots cast by lawfully-disenfranchized felons in Democratic majority districts.
The “vote harvesting” actions you so strongly argue against in NC are -required- now under recent CA law.
Care to square that circle, or are you explicitly basing laws on who wins?
Dipshit wasn’t seated, was he?
Oh, and btw, i noticed you all learn to avoid talking about Trump much. Which I take as a good sign and probably prudent for the sites archival legacy.
I warned you all that Trump would be the best thing that happened to progressive influence and political power in nearly a century. He is proving me right with the eight point national popular vote win democrats got in 2018. They gained 40 house seats and held the line well in the senate considering 26 of the 35 senate seats in play were held by dems. The most difficult senate map in generations for dems. 2020 will be 34 seats in play and 22 will be Republican. A bad map for republicans.
However, Trump is not done discrediting the public perception of the legitimacy of republican politics…
I also said he would not complete his term…
Buckle up, the next 90 days are going to be very unpleasant for republicans and the existential future of the party is at stake.
I am so thankful Hillary lost. If you thought people hated the DNC in 2016 imagine how much they would hate the dems today if she had won. And she would not have done a damn thing for progressive causes. All cost and no gain for progressives.
Oh, the bad 90 days for republican politics part? That starts tomorrow.
Commissar:
When President Trump completes his first and second term, would you be mature enough to post on TAH that you made a mistake?
It takes courage for one to admit they made an error. Hopefully, you will display that courage, especially since you took the oath to be a Commissioned Officer.
Thank You.
1. I have admitted I was wrong dozens of times here.
2. The Oath of office says nothing about admitting your wrong.
3. I will admit I am wrong if that happens in this case.
Question back; when the evidence shows Trump is operating in his personal self interest and for personal gain, and not for and sometimes against the interests of the American people, and his family has been committing financial fraud and white collar criminal activity for decades…
Will you admit you were wrong?
Commissar, my reply to ended up at the bottom of this post…just wanted to let you know I did not ignore your question.
In an effort to inject some historical accuracy into the original article, “gerrymandering” came, not from Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall in the mid 19th century, but from Gov Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts. He died in 1814…..
One of , if not the most precious gift of our Constitutional Republic, the right to vote….you just don’t have to prove who you are because that would be racist.
Historical references of gerrymandering to minimize the “oh-crap this is bad” importance in modern politics is missing the point…
1. Gerrymandering has always been about politicians choosing their voters rather than voters choosing their representatives… that is “oh-crap!” bad.
2. Gerrymandering has always been about minimizing the political power of the minority party and making it difficult to challenge the dominant political party in the future…that is “oh-crap!” bad.
3. Due to modern data modeling and access to more data on voter and individual political behavior gerrymandering is more accurate and precise that ever before imaginable. Paired with surveillance capitalism it is getting worse.
4. The voter behavior modeling, manipulating, and monitoring is not merely being done by US firms to help US candidates it is being farmed out to foreign intelligence service connected contractor firms and even being used to impact local elections in the US. This industry is getting bigger, more transnational, and getting better at it. Gerrymandering models or models used to locate polling stations to skew turnout in your favor are only some of the services provided.
If you are anger by voter fraud this shit should be rage inducing.
It all pisses me off. Both problems need to be addressed.
NC has been trying for years to fix this but since the Government of this state is under Federal Review every attempt has been met with a “not good enough”. I’m convinced at this point that no plan is going to be good enough by design to keep the NAACP running around stirring up racial division.
I’m not minimizing the point, it is just that the problem is far older than was painted. In the UK before the Reform Act of 1832, the “rotten borough” of Old Sarum had 3 houses and 7 voters. As a royally chartered town, it sent 2 members to Parliament, while new towns were grossly under-represented. We aren’t as bad here and now, but it does still suck.
As long as redistricting is performed as a partisan legislative exercise, you will have some type of gerrymandering. Even so-called “non-partisan commissions” struggle with it.
Want to put a crimp in gerrymandering? Outlaw the division of existing political subdivisions in the process. My home county is arbitrarily divided between two different state senate districts in a classic gerrymander move.
Locally, the state’s women’s prison is a favorite population center to be moved around in the distributing process. They can’t vote, but the population counts. So the resulting district is near equal in population, but under-represented in voters. Which means my district voters outnumber that district’s by almost 2:1, but each district get an equal seat at the table on our local county board.
Shuffle the deck any way you want, but you don’t get to cut and paste the cards. Until you fix that, it will be more of the same.
I never leave home without my retired military ID card and my driver’s license. Sometimes the military discount is greater than the senior discount so I’m prepared. When feeling bold I’ll ask to “bundle” the two for a potential mega-discount. It never hurts to ask.
Unsurprisingly, here in the PDR of MA no ID is required at the voting site. One of our US senators from MA is an American Indian. However, she’s not required to show her tribal identity card at the polling place since she is also a citizen of the USA.
I stopped in MA on the way home and when I went into a hotel to book a night the clerk just said they didn’t offer a military discount. Retired? no….How about American Legion or VFW? What are those? His actual words. This was a Days Inn.
Commissar:
Just as you, if I am wrong about something, I will admit I am or was wrong.
Since President Trump has less than two years to go with his first term, I will wait and see what happens, that is, if any “evidence” pops us that proves he and his family have committed white collar crimes.
In the meantime, I will continue to support him and will vote for him again. As I shared before, there are different personalities and thought processes on TAH. If we all thought the same, IMHO, this Blog would be a wee bit boring. Discussing differences in a reasonable manner can be entertaining as well as enlightening.
Thank you for your feedback on my question even though your initial comment really had nothing to do with what Ex-PH2 wrote reference voter fraud and taxes.
orangemangood
Yeah. I get accused of derailing the topic often. Iit is usually the responses and questions to my initial on topic post that leads to the derailment…
In this case I did post something off topic. Should have posted it in the open thread a few days ago.
Commissar: Thank you for being honest about posting on this thread.
No problem. Thanks for the polite exchange. By the way; if the oath or the UCMJ required officers to admit they were wrong the military would be a very different place.
2 things. 1) US Supreme Court ruled that the NC State Districts used “Race” too much in gerrymandering the districts, in 2017. 22 may 2017. But, they didn’t say they needed to redo the elections. So….2) This judges ruling is DOA on appeal. Pretty stupid, but typical egomaniacal judge. Reminds me of the Judge saying, “That’s why I have malpractice insurance!” to the Defense Attorney. Yeah, They’re just that stupid.
North Carolina has a bi-partisan bill that has been introduced to deal with the gerrymandering issue. funny it wasn’t a problem for the 100yrs the Dems were in power but suddenly now is.
I love a Judge saying that an Amendment to the State Constitution passed by voters is Unconstitutional and that the very people elected to the State Houses are themselves Unconstitutional. So, do we have no government? The logical assumption is that this one judge just dissolved the entire legislative assembly.