Navy chiefs going to sea
Bobo sends us a link to the Navy Times which reports that hundreds of Navy chief petty officers are being forced into sailing the seas;
The new Navy policy announced Monday will take effect immediately and aims to fill the nearly 3,000 unfilled senior enlisted billets at sea.
Most of those gaps —about 2,080 — are at the E-7 level. Just over 700 are for senior chiefs and almost 200 unfilled billets are for master chiefs.
“When you make chief petty officer, I always tell them their job is going to get harder and part of it getting harder means we need you in those billets at sea, teaching those sailors,” Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (SG/IW) Steven Giordano told Navy Times.
I don’t understand the problem – it’s the Navy, aren’t they supposed to be floating around on a big boat somewhere?
At the crux of the problem for the senior enlisted ranks are 25 ratings that are overmanned ashore. Navy personnel officials estimate that the bulk of those being sent back to sea will come from these ratings, and new orders could be handed down within the next few months.
Sailors most at risk for involuntary orders are in the following ratings: AD,AE,AM,AT,AWO,BM, CS(SS), CTI Eastern Europe, CTI Latin/South America, CTR, EMN(SW),ETN(SS), ET(SW), FC, GM, HM, ITS, LS(SS), MMN(SW), MM(SW), PS, QM, UT, YN, YN(SS).
As many as 1,100 chiefs could be packing their seabags ahead of their normal rotation, cutting short current assignments.
The overmanning ashore does not stem from any mismanagement, officials say, but instead is the result of strict adherence to sea-shore flow and sea-shore rotation rules
Well, if I enlisted in the Navy, I’d expect to spend my time on the water….that’s why I joined the Army.
Category: Navy
The Navy operates on a sea/shore rotation system, where a sailor will spend a certain number of years at sea, with a follow on (usually post re-enlistment) shore tour, based on NEC. When I was in, my NEC had a 4/4 rotation (4 years sea follower by 4 years shore). I’d be interested in seeing how many of the E-8s and E-9s tell the detailer to screw it and drop their papers instead of being shorted on their shore duty.
I’m wondering just how arduous the sea tour for a crypto tech linguist chief with an eastern European language is going to be.
I would have loved to have a PCS tour as a CTIC Ruling, but I don’t remember there being many, if any at all. Guess might have had some on afloat staffs. If you have to go to sea, go as a Chief. They live LARGE. And if I could have chosen, I would have taken a destroyer. NO carriers thank you very much!
Chiefs on ship live large as far as the mess, but they don’t get staterooms and are berthed only slightly better than the rest of the enlisted crew members.
Compare that to private rooms in the barracks or living out in town and there’s no comparison.
“…they don’t get staterooms and are berthed only slightly better than the rest of the enlisted crew members.”
I could live with that.
Does remind me a short time I spent on HMCS Provider. As a PO2, I did have my own stateroom. Carpeted, desk, easy chair…and all the beer I could drink. Guys on board told me there was a 2 year waiting list for the Canadian Navy. I believe it.
Living with it is one thing saying it’s a Archemedian Taj Mahal is another.
As ships company (E-4/E-5) on a carrier, the chiefs berthing was no better than mine.
As an embarked chief in a Recon Platoon, for example, the only difference I had as a chief was in the small space that berthed 18 of us (myself and 17 Marine SNCOs), we had coffin racks instead of the canvas tied into an aluminum frame racks and showers built into the space.
I much preferred sleeping on the ground and keeping platoon integrity.
As a ships corpsman I had to do random berthing inspections.Non-rates in divisions tend to live in larger berthing spaces as do junior officers, once you get to LCDR and above it’s pretty sweet, the ships Captain and the Flag berthing is in a word, opulent. 🙂
All I can tell you are the friends of mine who were PCS’d as Chiefs to a variety of ships for them life was good. Saw how it was when I visited the mess as a CPO myself.
Now, sea duty can be quite the grind, but experiencing it in the CPO mess is quite a step up. I know that when I was a PO2 deploying to multiple ships, the Chiefs had it good.
Sure, LCDR and above are doing quite well. I was a LCDR and I was a CPO. Frankly, many times I felt I made more of an impact as a goat than I did as an officer. As a friend of mine told me once, “Chiefs make things happen. Officers make sure things happen.”
Of all the ranks I attained from E-1 to O-4, CPO stands out as the one I am most proud of and the one that I really earned.
all I can tell you is what I lived.
Same here. We will agree to disagree.
And have a fine Navy day, shipmate!
I provided details…you spoke in ambiguity, from living large to living good as though is was somehow excessive or unecessary. As a member of that community I find it inaccurate and mildly offensive. The fact that you were yourself a chief makes it even more puzzling.
IDC, I have no idea what you mean by your last comment.
“Mildly offensive”? “Puzzling”?
What?
All I said was that if I was PCS’d to a ship, I would want to be in the Chief’s mess. For me, the berthing spaces are for sleeping. Nothing more. Otherwise, I would be in the Chief’s mess or my workspace. And I would rather be a Chief on the ship than an E-1 or an O-1 for that matter. And yeah, the more senior officers have better berthing, but for me when all is said and done, I enjoyed making an impact as a Chief more than as an officer.
I don’t know how that can offend you or puzzle you other than I don’t agree with what you said. I sure don’t find what you wrote offensive. We just are looking at the world differently.
That summary was much more accurate. 🙂
Oh, now I see. No, IDC, I don’t think that the way of life for Chiefs on board a ship is excessive or unnecessary.
They earned the perks and make up for those perks by working harder than anyone on board.
Ok. Sorry for the confusion.
You ever see the Chiefs mess on a carrier? Not a damned thing wrong with carrier duty, especially if you are a black shoe!
Have you ever been a member of a chief’s mess?
Mine was 5/3. Had I made Chief it would have gone to 4/3.
In reality, I was 7.5/2.5, which was a factor in my leaving when I did.
I’m still wondering how any nuke NEC, surface or submarine, is overmanned, even on shore duty. We sure as fuck were never fully manned at sea.
I’m sure that they can find volunteer nuke chiefs that would love to leave prototype “shore duty” and go back to sea. I know one ETN(SS) that volunteered to cut his tour short and go back to a fast boat.
lol you got lucky with 7.5sea/2.5shore mine was 10.5sea / 1.5shore
Curious. What was your rating? Why would they rotate you for less than a minimum activity tour?
That sucks.
No Happy Hour in DC!
Oh. My. God. Neptune must have had a hand in this!
No empty slots for BM or BT? Those poor Chiefs. I’ll bet they thought those cushy shore duty jobs were permanent until retiring. (Sniffle) The first loud noises will be about quality of chow.
There was not one single complaint anywhere in the article from any Chief.
So where you writing from your vast knowledge of Chief Petty Officer’s.
P.S. No such rate as BT. It was eliminated 20 yrs ago.
CB Senior
FYI, you are not, I repeat, not supposed to mention a lady’s age in any way, shape, or form.
I just hope Ex-PH2 has some mercy upon you.
I see I missed the Bosun’s Mate on that list. My bad. Not enough caffeine yet.
Well, after my unintentional hilarity-inducing post in a caffeine-deprived state yesterday, I certainly won’t be tossing any flaming rocks today.
Oh, gee whiz, I forgot to add the /sarc tag. I guess some people just can’t see past the surface of something. Yes, I’m an antiquated sort. I remember the good old days when things made sense. Will not apologize for it, either, Toots.
My ‘vast’ knowledge? Ooooh! Someone got up with his boxers in a bunch this morning. I don’t see any of these more obscure ratings on that sea-going list, but maybe they’re too “obscure” to be remembered. Powder monkey – someone has to load the powder bundles into the big guns, right? Aviation Radioman – somehow, that seems to have been forgotten, but shortwave is still in use by a huge number of people. Not subject to internet viruses and stuff like that. Aviation Carpenter’s Mate – with all these drones and spybots in the air, there is a need for these guys. Chemical Warfareman – speaks for itself, hazmat gear and all. IBM operator – IBM is still in business at Armonk, NY. I’m sure they’d appreciate those keypunch operators even more, now that everything on the internet is subject to virus, malware and spyware attacks. Data cards and microfiches may be old tech, but they still work. Pigeon trainers – homing pigeons may not be as fast as the iPhone in your pocket, but they are less likely to be hacked. More likely to be eaten by a neighborhood cat on the prowl. Loblolly Boy – I know, I know. We have corpsmen, SARCs, nurses, docs, etc., now, but the Loblloy’s job was feeding the sick and wounded and cleaning up after surgery. Thankless tasks, but somebody had to do it. Schoolmaster – I think anyone will agree that the bulk of children coming out of high school are as close to illiterate as you can get, especially when they’ve been told that 2+2 can equal 5 in some blighted universe. This certainly is a viable rating, something on the k-8 grade school level. Ship Cooper – maybe if the Navy gave everyone a daily ration of rum or beer or Jack Daniels or MacAllen, then sailors on shore leave wouldn’t turn up drunk and stay toasted on cold water at the scuttlebutt for three days running. Airship Rigger – with drones being as popular as they are, and weather balloons still in constant use, and dirigibles showing up… Read more »
“Thankless tasks, but somebody had to do it.”
Some of us find the responsibility of those thankless tasks an honor and a privilege if it comforts the patient, or adds to the effectiveness and safety of the medical spaces. 🙂
There is a job satisfaction in seeing the comfort brought to a patient by one’s efforts that is hard to match anywhere else.
Surgery in those days was frequently amputations with no anesthetic. The bleeding was stopped with hot tar. Disposal of those remains was part of the Loblolly’s job.
On a ship with bucking mainsails and heavy, pounding seas, all of that would be a very difficult task.
Not saying YOU have it easy, either.
I’ve had to figure out how to dispose of body parts at sea and in country. Luckily, there was no shortage of anesthetic.
Homing pigeons have their quirks as well. One batch released in Normandy early on D-day flew promptly east, to Germany.
They were stool-pigeons!
Fresh outta GM “A” school, reported to ship with twin 5 inch mounts. Chief tells me to “find GM1 Harris and tell him you’re his new monkey.” Next thing I know I’m standing behind a gun catching hot 5 inch brass. Powder Monkeys work both ends of the gun.
at the E-7 rank, i bet that if they asked for volunteers they would get plenty just to get away from their wives for a while. I mean i volunteered for 5 tours in Iraq for that reason and they have a better life on ship then i ever had in Iraq….
I don’t understand it.
Isn’t going to sea the very reason guys join the Navy?
I would hate to be a sailor and never get to sail.
But, I had a friend (now deceased) who retired from the Navy, and he’d spent most of his career at sea.
After so many years at sea, he requested, and was granted, duty on land, so he could be with his family.
As he stated, since getting married, he’d been at sea longer than he’d been married.
What do they mean by going to Sea? On-board a Ship or deploying with your type of Unit?
Many of those rating are not Ship board type ratings. SW is a Steel Worker. Are the asking them to deploy on a Vessel to be the LCPO?
@ CB SENIOR:
I was a soldier in the United States Army, so I know nothing about the United States Navy.
And I do recall talking with a Navy chief in the Seabees who told me he’d never gone to sea, and had no desire to go to sea, as his job was being a Seabee on land.
As I said, though, it seems to me a guy who joins the Navy probably does it for the adventure of sailing the oceans.
Just as a guy who joins the Air Force (I think) would be terribly disappointed if he never got to fly on an airplane.
I didn’t really have a choice about the Army, as I was drafted, but it worked out really well for me, giving me lots of opportunities, training, education, and adventures, and sending me all over the world.
In a way, I guess it was a choice, because after I’d been denied enlistment by the United States Marine Corps, I volunteered to be drafted.
Volunteering for the draft meant I was automatically going into the United States Army, and after my two years were completed as a draftee, I reenlisted.
Before volunteering to be drafted, I did approach the Navy and Air Force recruiters, but they both had really long waiting lists.
Back in those days, nobody wanted to be in the Army or the Marines, and that’s why the Navy and Air Force had such long waiting lists.
Hay brother the SW above is for Surface Warfare, not Seabee Steel Worker. The only Seabee rate is UT, because of their Sea Shore and overage of Shore UT billets. SW,BU and EA merge at E-8,so their Sea shore flow is healthy. They are doing a good job at keeping Battalions on track and Sea Shore flow for Seabees are good. They cleaned that up before we chopped all the Battalions a couple years ago. They had a team go to all the basses and other places and found all those hidden billets that Seabees could hide out from. Hidden jobs like UP’s TECHS and Drivers driving the nukes, and recruiting trucks and other BS SLOTS (I wish I could have had instead of the four NMCB’s I did).
Saw that after my post but there is no ID10T button.
Yes many cracks in those small units to hide. Cheatham Annex anyone?
Best job in the Navy, Sea Bee LCPO on a (good) Det. At least it was mine.
I’m offended! /sarcasm/ “Hidden jobs like UPS TECHS”!?!
We aren’t hidden, just closed loop 🙂
-NEC 5601
What I meant were there have been places where your NEC was not assigned to those places, but you still had orders. They did a clearance of all those and others, like builders hanging out in Flight squadron for what? I know two of the members on the Task Force and they found all kinds hanging out all over and yes some of you guy’s.
When I was a division Chief at a school, I had a newly minted Sailor straight out of boot camp tell me she never wanted to even see a ship.
I immediately volunteered to walk her down to the Air Force so that she could be a “sand crab” to her heart’s content.
I joined the USN to go to sea. Why anyone wouldn’t want to have at least one tour underway is beyond me.
On the opposite end of the scale, during my first TAD trip underway, I worked in the sonar shack on USS Henry B Wilson. The LPO STG1 was a Chief select with 19 years in. 17, repeat 17, of those years were at sea.
@ MUSTANG CRYPPIE:
“I worked in the sonar shack on USS Henry B Wilson. The LPO STG1 was a Chief select with 19 years in. 17, repeat 17, of those years were at sea.”
________________________________
That sounds like my friend, now deceased.
Was his name, Bruce Munday?
Bruce Munday became so good at communications and electronics, they made him an officer.
He got to live in the Ol’ Soldiers’ Home, which is only for veterans and retirees from the enlisted ranks, because most of his time in service was as an enlisted sailor, with only a few years as an officer.
When last I saw him, he was in a locked ward, because of his dementia, and he died there.
John, I don’t remember his name, but I can say it was Bruce Munday.
RIP Bruce.
Thank you gentlemen, you made my day.
Let’s hoist one to those dearly departed. Today is my late brother’s birthday so I am having a couple in his honor.
Anchors aweigh my boys.
Move out or move on, make some promotion room for somebody that that wants the job and not just the pay.
Guess that means those who acquired the following awards will have an opportunity to obtain some real cloth:
Never Left the USA Ribbon
Never Went to Sea Ribbon
Daddy is an Admiral Ribbon
Headquarters Tour Ribbon
Never Been Deployed Ribbon
I’m Not Moving Ribbon
8 to 5 Ribbon
Friend of Career Manager Ribbon
Never Got a Ribbon Ribbon
I still gots my Expert Floor Buffer Operator Badge..
And Impregnated before the boat leaves, mutable awards for this, and never has a baby.
Never understood the folks who joined and didn’t want the old yellow benefit tag. Hell, that was part of the fun of being in was knowing you’d never be anywhere long enough to get bored.
Why the flaming squirrel-tossing hell did the join the US Navy if they want to avoid going to sea?
Nothing stating Chiefs avoid Sea Duty, that by the way does not always mean Duty at Sea. Small units like Seabee’s EOD, SEAL’s will most likely never see a ship, or be stationed on one for long periods as Ships crew. The main problem here is the Sea Shore rotation at senior level gets screwed up, as there are more shore jobs vice type 1 and or type 2 Sea duty jobs in the Navy at the paygrades being discussed.
true…and the majority of Corpsmen do their sea duty in the Fleet Marine Force(FMF)
Not saying significant numbers aren’t going to sea as ships company (I did both in my career)just the reality is more go to the FMF.
In early and mid-90’s we had SEAL Platoons deploy on the Carriers with us.
“we had SEAL Platoons deploy on the Carriers with us._
The key there relative to NECCSSEABEECPOs comment was that SEALS don’t spend long periods on ships. They are assigned like I was as a SARC (with a MEU or SPMAGTF for example), not as ships company 24/7/356 but for more transient periods, which could be many months, but are associated with a specific deployment/mission capability only.
more easily stated, a SEAL platoon is not ship’s company
Thanks IDC, you understood,I am sorry for leaving out FMF GUY’S. The same can be said for them, once FMF can always be, and if back in fleet will most likely go NECC or NSW.
My stepfather was an artillery officer in the Army during WWII and spent several years at sea. According to him the anti aircraft guns on merchant marine ships were manned by the army. His brother was an Electricians Mate in the Navy and spent the war in San Diego, go figure.
Stick close to your desk
And never go to sea.
“Let no man be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned… a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company.” ~ Samuel Johnson
ROFLOL ! ! !
Hate to be contrary, but on an aircraft carrier, at least mine, we had terrific chow and enough room to move around, sure didn’t feel like a jail! Except when I was in the boiler room, that was more like Hell!
Johnson was fricking brilliant!
to me, a sailor not going to sea is as lame as a soldier who never deploys.
I joined for that…I could have been a desk potato as a civilian…
Yeah I served 24 years, 20 years of that straight sea duty (with a few interruptions for neutral duty in schools)because it was what I enjoyed.
I knew I’d be old, and it would be over sooner than I wanted.
I miss it. However there were things I wanted to accomplish that were impossible in that life. Moving on and doing those things has been the only solace to losing that past life and becoming an entirely different person.
Get busy living or get busy dying…life is nothing but change. I’ve been in 2 branches of the military and changed civilian jobs on multiple occasions. Stagnation is not an option for me, I get bored easily. I see where you’re coming from.
Easy there train wrecks, this isn’t your station.
The news component here is that Chiefs will be moved back to sea rotations ahead of schedule, not that they’re reluctant to go.
I don’t see any complaints from the Chiefs Mess in the article. I doubt you’ll see any real Chiefs get more than a little miffed. Now the E-7s might be unhappy, but fine. Lots of hard charging PO1s happy to take their place.
Yeah, but women get to go to sea nowadays, and the closest I could get to it was a dependents’ day cruise.
I don’t see where according to this article it was in any way the chief’s themselves that created this situation.
I also don’t see where there was any effort on their part to actually not go to sea.
Does this mean the Navy is still firing leaders so fast they have to speed up rotations?
I can understand why someone might enlist in the Navy. But after touring a few ships and seeing how sailors live while at sea, what I can’t understand is why anyone would RE-Enlist in the Navy. 😀
“They say that in the Army the chow is mighty fine. Well, a chicken jumped off the table and starting marking time.”
But you can’t dig foxholes in the ocean, which is why *I* was in Army!
They say that in the Army, the coffee’s mighty fine!
It looks like muddy water, and tastes like turpentine!
My father was in the Navy so I got to tour a few ships. When I saw the berthing compartments on even a large ship, a carrier, I decided on the Army. That and knowing that if worse came to worse, I could walk longer than I could swim.
I have always been a little puzzled about how the Navy could give everybody shore duty and still keep the ships manned. How many shore billets can there be? The Navy bureaucracy must be huge.
Shift Colors, underway.
Sea Duty was WAAAAAAY better than Shore Duty for me.
I’ll second that.
Recruiting–where careers go to die.
If you prance around with “deckplate leader” on the back of your PT shirt, don’t bitch if the Navy gives you what you’re advertising – leadership at sea. You can’t deckplate lead if you ain’t on the deckplates.
Tell ’em, Chief!
pffft…the article didn’t cite that anyone was bitching or shirking their obligations in any way and the sea shore rotation is a standard procedure in the Navy. This is a Navy Personnel Command issue.
Somebody has to fill recruiting, I&I, maintenance, A school, C school instructor billets, etc. If everybody was on sea duty all the time, there would be no Navy.
I stayed on sea duty voluntarily, but I wouldn’t begrudge anyone going to shore duty, because somebody has to do it and it’s actually part of the normal structure of rotations. 🙂