The Pentagon wants it’s bonuses back
The LA Times reports that the Pentagon is demanding that troops return the bonuses that they got a decade ago;
Nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom served multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay large enlistment bonuses — and slapped with interest charges, wage garnishments and tax liens if they refuse — after audits revealed widespread overpayments by the California Guard at the height of the wars last decade.
Investigations have determined that lack of oversight allowed for widespread fraud and mismanagement by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets.
But soldiers say the military is reneging on 10-year-old agreements and imposing severe financial hardship on veterans whose only mistake was to accept bonuses offered when the Pentagon needed to fill the ranks.
Apparently, the Pentagon paid the bonuses and then spent the next five years determining if the recipients were eligible for the cash they paid. One soldier sued the process and his debt was forgiven before the case made it to a judge – funny how that works, huh?
The same thing happened to me – I extended a year on my first enlistment for a bonus, then after I did the year, some civilian technician couldn’t find the Army message that authorized the payment and they made me pay it back. But, that’s the way the government works – their mistakes cost you.
Category: Big Pentagon
Always keep every confounded piece of paper, even if it fills up six bankers’ boxes! Always.
How True. I paid into the College Fund and when I was about to get out found I was 1 or 2 Thousand short for some reason to get the max amount out of it. I borrowed it and paid lump sum then when I got out no-one including me could find the paperwork proving I had paid it. Keep everything.
That’s pure BULLSHIT, suck it up and press on Pentagon, don’t take it out on the troops who accepted the bonuses for your bureaucratic incompetence
Let those thieving sons of bitches in washing dc…namely obama the queer ass hole and the clintons, the pervert and the lying murderous bitch! In fact, nationalize everything those bastards have, bank accounts, real estate, hidden bank accounts, overseas bank accounts..EVERYTHING,,,,let the scum starve like they want Americans to!!
Desert, you are what’s great about discourse today. It’s great that you can disagree without being disagreeable. It’s refreshing to see someone comment who is not mentally unstable or who says crazy things in an apparent attempt to make conservative vets look bad.
I have no opinion on how foreign countries pay or don’t pay their military. The Republic of California can deal with it. I thought that place was run by a bunch of “Stank-Ass Hippies” anyway.
You are correct, sir. Most with the (D) after their names are either “Stank-Ass Hippies” or their sympathizers. The entire state government is controlled by them. I love how no one cares about the missing $6 billion the former SOS and her crew can’t locate or otherwise account for.
I wonder if it trickled in over time to the Clinton Foundation, or at least some offshore account associated to them.
You know damned well it ended up in the clinton foundation!!
Kickback-o-rama! (Sayin’ thanks for the good fortune… )
I don’t think it went directly to the Criminal (*OOPS*, Clinton) Foundation, but it’s handily stashed away in many other ways.
If the Brass is so hard up for cash may I suggest you visit the local VA. You can squeeze all those assholes who got bonuses by fudging their numbers and sat back while veterans died.
But, but, they need that money for the trannie operations…
The soldiers receiving the bonuses didn’t commit the fraud.
The only punishments that should be given out are on those who knowingly handed out those bonuses in an illegal manner.
Also, whoever it was in the Pentagon that had oversight of the process should be buried under a courthouse somewhere.
They say that in the Army,
the pay is mighty fine
They’ll give you a hundred dollars,
and take back 99
I have an re-enlist All American t-shit they can have.
Sounds pretty typical these days.
These are the same “people” who told Soldiers in Afghanistan that when they came home, they’d be separated.
The same people who told captains who signed a 4-year contract if the Army paid for their masters degree, they would be kicking them out at 3.5 years and the Captains would have to pay for their own masters.
The same people who tell Soldiers getting QMP’d or QSP’d that they’d be getting kicked out at 19 years, even though they are in Sanctuary.
Every time this happens you have to get a lawyer, get your Congressman involved, get the IG involved (though they really don’t listen to the IG and don’t give a shit what the IG says), and finally get the media involved.
If you don’t get the media involved, their decision won’t change. SFC Martland is the perfect example of that. Many friends are getting kicked out before they hit sanctuary at the will of HRC and the Pentagon because that means they save a shit ton of money on retirements.
At the end of the day, if it was retention NCOs and “officials” in the CA Guard who did the wrong thing, purposely to get enlistments, then they should be the ones sought for recompense.
“Every time this happens you have to get a lawyer…”
Exactly right and to carry it further, get a CIVILIAN lawyer. My experience has been that the government many times crumbles when confronted by them.
Bingo, all these examples got civilian lawyers to help them. JAG can be helpful, but the Army isn’t really afraid of its own lawyers, just as much as they aren’t afraid of their own IG anymore.
Sad but true…I’m hitting the point where I wonder if I’ll be allowed to finish my last five years more than I wonder if I’ll ever make SFC. If QSP gets me, I think I can successfully counter that I’m anything but stagnant even as a nearly 10-year SSG–I’ve served as a squad leader, platoon sergeant, Recruiter, Brigade Victim Advocate, Brigade Operations Sergeant, and now as a Drill Sergeant since pinning SSG in ’07. QMP should be a no-go unless I screw up–no UCMJ or civil charges and only one speeding ticket in the past 13 years. Even so, sometimes it feels like the Army is trying to squeeze the life out of me before cutting me short. Who knows? All I can do is continue training the next generation of enlisted Soldiers and hope that those who make it a career aren’t screwed over by the powers that be.
The “semi-positive” thing about QSP is that you can request a “TERA” retirement. (Temporary Early Retirement Authority)
So, at 15 years, you’d get 25% pension and about 5% every AFS year after that. But, QMP’d folks aren’t eligible for TERA and if they tag you for QMP, they basically say “Fuck off” if you try to do a Medical Retirement.
Funny thing, a friend of mine had some back issues, but also was in his same MOS and there was such a low promotion rate to E-8 for his MOS, he just decided to retire. So, 3-4 months AFTER his actual retirement date, he was called by someone in HRC saying, “Hey, you’re getting QSP’d so I’m calling you about that.” “Uh, I’m retired now. I retired in January.” “What the hell? Who let you retire? You weren’t supposed to be able to retire!” Yes, that was the basic conversation he told me.
These are the same “experts” in Human Resources that have job security because its their job to find ways to kick other people out with the least amount of cost possible. (hence, QMP and QSP)
Oh man, I would’ve relished having that conversation. “Fuck you, I’m retired. Eat my ass”
Only 25%?
For 15 years, I get 32.5%. But I may be doing the calculation and reduction incorrectly.
This page explains the calculation.
Yeah, I retired early as well. I don’t think it can go as low as 25%. Using 15 x 2.5% x .95 for the reduction factor, I get 35.625%. I’ve seen worse reduction factors in some public plans.
“In 2010, after reports surfaced of improper payments, a federal investigation found that thousands of bonuses and student loan payments were given to California Guard soldiers who did not qualify for them, or were approved despite paperwork errors. Army Master Sgt. Toni Jaffe, the California Guard’s incentive manager, pleaded guilty in 2011 to filing false claims of $15.2 million and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison. Three officers also pleaded guilty to fraud and were put on probation after paying restitution.” Those three were captains. Each did a day or two in the hoosegow and then probation. As for MZZZZZZZZ Jaffe, she retired right before all hell broke loose. This from the WaPo: “From 1986 until her retirement last year, Jaffe’s job with the Guard was to give away money – the federally subsidized student-loan repayments and cash bonuses that the Guard is supposed to use to attract recruits and encourage Guard members to reenlist.” There you go. Screwed royally by a few of their own. Nice.
When I retired Finance called me about 30 days later and said that I owed them 3k. I went through every LES (yes I saved them all and still have them) and figured out between jump pay, COLA payments in the FRG, and some other stuff they owed me around 5k. Sent them a certified return receipt letter. It has been 20 some years and I am still waiting for a response.
When you die and your family tries to collect, their response will be, “oops, sorry this got lost. We can’t repay YOU, we can only repay the former Soldier directly.”
SOP for the government: they owe YOU money, it’s pulling teeth to get it. YOU owe them money and they want it NOW. So glad I retire in 8 months.
I extended my enlistment for my second tour in 2010-2011. We were supposed to get DEIP(?) pay for the extra months me and those like me extended for so we could go on the deployment. It was sort of a voluntary stop-loss program. When we got back, no extra pay was to be found. S-1 said it was a DFAS issue. DFAS said it was a battalion issue. End result was the same. No money.
Hell at the same time when we got back, sequestration hit and everyone in my battalion barely got paid. I was paid $300 for an entire month. When we put in pay inquiries, they all came back saying we were paid in full.
#”Silver Lions”
http://www.medalsofamerica.com/Item–i-P1299
New CAARNG uniform item.
I want one for my motorcycle vest. It encapsulates why I resigned my RA commission those many years ago.
In 72 I reenlisted for six years under the STAR Program … Selective Training And Retention. I got a C school in a critical rating. Also got $6000, which was big bucks back then. Per google, it’s the equivalent of $35,850 today. Anyhoo … there was a screw up and I was told I was double paid one year (paid over six years). Took forever and a day to get my last payment. Fortunately, I had the paperwork and a decent clerk who took time to figure it out.
I’ve been on the receiving end of some big reenlistment bonuses $20K(1st reenlistment) and $16K (2nd reenlistment). Getting the paperwork processed for the first one was like herding cats. The finance clerks acted like they were passing a collection plate to scrounge up my bonus money. Had a few friends that took the critical skills bonus around 2008 $150,000 bonus for 6 year contract. No surprise everyone waited until they were in country on a rotation to sign the contract and get the bonus tax free. My buddy said about a week after signing the contract he had a deposit of $70,000 one day and $80,000 the following day. Knew a few SGM’s and CWO’s that took that deal.
My first reenlistment, they tried to claim I wasn’t eligible for SRB and dragged their feet for nearly 4 months.
Only after my leading YN got Admirals involved (he used to be a flag writer, which helped) it got paid, but Cleveland still dicked the dog. My W-2 for the following year wasn’t issued until JULY.
Any word if the reverend al, who allegedly owes millions in back taxes, will be hit with interest charges, wage garnishments and tax liens? No? Yeah, me too.
Look, unless it can be shown these troops intentionally set out to screw the system, they should get a pass.
Some were told there was Free Cheese and said, “Gimme some.” Others were presented a deal, upheld their part of the bargain and are getting screwed. By the sheer numbers of people involved, some percentage (large or small, I do not know) knew damn well there was a game going on. These folks get no sympathy or understanding. And they will probably be the ones top get out from under. The remainder get all of my sypathy and understanding and I hope that they fight tooth and nail.
They can pay right after the Teflon Hag pays the six Billion $$$ she lost at DoS!
Why isn’t there a limitation of this shit? If the government can figure out shit in a timely manner oh well.
When the Legions of Rome became more dependant on, more grateful to, their military leaders versus Rome, bad things in Roman politics became endemic, and the endless upheavals became inevitable.
It may feel like a conspiracy to break the morale of our armed forces, a systemic plan to geld our forces, but it is not.
Never attribute to conspiracy what simple incompetence will explain, nor to active malice when simple contempt will suffice.
Go figure
10,000 people times what – $20,000 average? I would be surprised if it was that much. So we’re talking significant money – until you remember the $43 million gas station and the trillions of dollars pissed away there. This is chickenfeed for the Pentagon over all. How much did they piss away on new uniforms, changing Navy ratings, LGBTQRSTUV training etc.?
It happened in CA, thus I’m sure that the shitbags in Sacramento think that money is much better taken and handed out to illegal aliens ASAP to buy more dhimmirat votes.
Illegal aliens will gratefully vote Democrat scads of times, military folk usually won’t.
This is screwed up, but when I went over to LA Times to read the original story this link caught my eye:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-deported-veterans-report-20160705-snap-story.html
What’s up with that dude’s uniform? He’s wearing a 101st patch sans Airborne tab on his beret, and what looks like a CIB on his chest next to his full sized Bronze Star. Can’t tell what branch insignia disks he’s wearing, but they aren’t infantry because there are no blue disks, as there is no blue cord. Can’t tell his rank from the picture.
Damn good one reddevil talk about standing out like a sore thumb
The irritatingly sad thing is, all of this could have been eliminated with 1 individual making a policy decision – the TAG. This shows just how much crappy politics has changed the upper echelon to the point that they are no longer there to represent their people.
Not sure what the TAG could have done, other than not offer any CA ARNG Soldier a bonus in the first place.
The TAG has the authority to dismiss any repayments that were incurred from the events that happened within their command, but since they (the TAG’s) are politically appointed, well, you can see how that goes.
No, TAG has no authority to waive repayment. TAG is a State employee, and the bonuses are federally funded and therefore a federal debt.
CA Guard did say in the articles that they are providing assistance to those who want to apply for a waiver, which is about all they can do at this point, unless the CA Governor and Legislature want to pony up on behalf of the Guardsmen, but I don’t see THAT happening.
State of CA made the decision to give out the money, their responsibility to pay Uncle Sam back… but, of course, no bureaucrat is ever responsible for their actions.
I did a Try-One for a $7000 bonus to prep my unit for a deployment. After my year, the Army said that the paperwork wasn’t filed correctly and then sent me a bill for the drill pay that I received for the year. Yeah, MilDep (Oregon Military Department) laughed at the audacity, then sobered up when I brought up a lawyer’s number and the term “breach of contract.”
I never got the bonus, but the Army stopped trying to collect my drill pay.
Massive fraud on the part of the Recruiting and Retention teams.
“Army Master Sgt. Toni Jaffe, the California Guard’s incentive manager, pleaded guilty in 2011 to filing false claims of $15.2 million and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison. Three officers also pleaded guilty to fraud and were put on probation after paying restitution.”
Unfortunately, once the “bad payments” were discovered, the only option the Guard has under law is to request repayment.
“Though they cannot waive the debts, California Guard officials say they are helping soldiers and veterans file appeals with the National Guard Bureau and the Army Board for Correction of Military Records, which can wipe out the debts.”
The follow-up states that many are successful in having the debt waived or forgiven, but Uncle Sam writes the rules for that, and is in no hurry to process. I know the office in the Pentagon that would be receiving these requests, and it is less than a handful of people. While it is entirely plausible that some of those on the receiving end knew full well they were not entitled, I believe the vast majority would not have, and this should be put to bed.
Current law requires an individual to request waiver, Congress would have to step in to issue a blanket waiver.
Follow-up article:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-calif-guard-bonus-20161023-snap-story.html
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