Marine Corps’ mixed gender units tested
According to the Marine Corps Times, Corps official released the results of their first experiment in mixed-gender units and it doesn’t look good;
Data collected during a months-long experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
[…]
While the experiment was closely controlled, there was a key experience gap: Many male task force volunteers came from combat units where they had previously served, while female volunteers came directly from infantry schools or from noncombat jobs. One task force unit, a provisional rifle platoon, attempted to mitigate this problem by comparing the performance of male and female troops who received no formal infantry training.
It’s funny, but many times we got male soldiers in our infantry units who were fresh from infantry school or came from non-infantry jobs and the units’ performance didn’t suffer as a result. But, hey, that’s just my experience. I’m sure that the results of this study won’t convince anyone who already has their mind set on the outcome of these experiments.
I’m sure it can all be fixed by changing the standards, or by properly immersing male infantry soldiers in some sort of mind-altering touchy-feely training devised by a bunch of people who have never, nor will they ever, hear a weapon fired in anger.
Category: Marine Corps
First! 😀
Oh, I just hear the SJW screaming and pounding their little fists on the floor!
My advice to them is to STFU. Now.
Gully Vern, ain’t thet a ‘sprize?
How are you doing on the ruck march training?
Always said that a women place is home in the kitchen doing what they do best,” BURN DINNER” and anything eles they have on the stove.
Where the tall corn grows.
I’ve always advocated for the women to have the chance to try. I just hope that everybody is honest with the results as they come in, and admit that even when the wheel was re-invented, that it was still round.
or, more accurately, after trying various other command-ordered shapes, round still performs better.
Something about round and square and pegs and holes, but I can’t quite put it all together-especially that last part.
Doesn’t it take a GO/FO to do that? I thought the round and square and pegs and holes were the purview of those in the exalted ranks, not mere peons.
I think we may have unwittingly stumbled upon a large part of the curriculum at the War College.
Let them identify as competent or trans-competent.
I am just glad they didn’t do like the military department of nursing. Some of those nurses are stupid enough to think they managed to cut 16+ min off their run times without even exercising during a special department of nursing pre promotion PT test to clear all the flags.
This is why I do all the cooking in our house, wife likes to eat out, maybe they should turn to taking up cooking in the mess hall and leave the sharp shooting for someone that knows what a bulls eye looks like, never was in favor of having women in combat.
The problem is, some women just aren’t domesticated. I’m one of them. I’d rather be outside doing anything, than puttering around in the kitchen or cleaning house. I’m a fair cook, nothing fancy, but do that all the time? Nah. I’d go stir-crazy, if that’s all I had to do.
“The problem is, some women just aren’t domesticated. I’m one of them. I’d rather be outside doing anything, than puttering around in the kitchen or cleaning house. I’m a fair cook, nothing fancy, but do that all the time? Nah. I’d go stir-crazy, if that’s all I had to do.” You mean BUSY, not domesticated. And you WOULDN’T go stir crazy because you’d have soo much shit to do you wouldn’t have time to go crazy. You’re just bored. Get to cleaning lol.
Sam, some people can hunt and some people can cook.
That applies to both men and women.
^^^Like^^^
BINGO!!
My wife is a better long range shooter than I am. She just has a talent for the big guns.
Me, I’m better at the up close and personal stuff, if you know what I mean.
Grandpa once told me that a gentleman will draw fire while the lady reloads.
Facts and common sense be damned, Ray Mabus is opening ALL jobs to women because patriarchy or opportunity or something
Just for balance. Here is a linky to the WaPo’s article on the same report.http://tinyurl.com/Waposaysmarinesbigots
Thier view? The Marines are bigots and how dare they abuse almighty Science like this this. This proves nothing and gives bigots all manner of ammo to keep up the fight against women. Oh and patriarchal oppression.
Our old friend, Ellen Haring’s response is entirely predictable.
“They’re always coming up with these averages,” Haring said. “‘The average woman can’t do what the average man does. I don’t think that’s a surprise to any of us. But they weren’t told to do this based on averages. It has to be based on individual capabilities.”
Um, they were volunteers, Ellen.
“They’re always coming up with these averages,” Haring said. “‘The average woman can’t do what the average man does. I don’t think that’s a surprise to any of us. But they weren’t told to do this based on averages. It has to be based on individual capabilities.”
“We’ll find that unicorn eventually!”
They think just because Serena Williams has bigger biceps than every NBA players thighs that every woman can pee standing up as well as she can.
I dont think it matters much. The whole idea that science would support the idea that there are differences in men and women is driving them up the wall.
Oh and statistics eventually breaks everyone down to an average male vs average female or average apple vs average orange.
Unit performance is based on individual capabilities. Unfortunately, like that of a chain it’s limited by the weakest member.
Averages come into play when staffing units. Just like all men aren’t Lebron James, all women aren’t 2+ sigma physical specimens. And, unfortunately for those pushing this thesis, the top 2% of women (2+ sigma) might be equal on average in innate physical capability to the lower mid-range for men.
That 2% might make it – maybe. Well, except for the fact that certain other physiological differences (knee geometry is one – women are inherently more prone to catastrophic knee injuries when stressed than are men due to body geometry differences) make even that questionable for occupations that require carrying a heavy load and/or running/jumping/dodging/etc . . . .
Bottom line: averages matter, Ms. Haring. You can only role 7s and 11s so many times before you miss. I’d expect a former O6 who was well educated to know the above quite well.
Personally, I think she does know all of that. I also think she’s intentionally disregarding same for political reasons.
Actually I read the article as being fairly neutral other than the two idiots (Haring and van Dam) quoted in the middle.
Funny how conveniently the Left forgets the famous quote from one of their darlings, Abbie Hoffman: “There’s only one place for a woman in the Revolution – prone”
Here’s how you solve this problem:
1 – Teach the wimmins to shoot the most accurately that they can.
2 – Give them all the field medical training that usually accompanies this kind of training.
3 – Put EVERYONE in gender-neutral armor, meaning it hides the differences between male and female, which is NOT impossible to do, and run the tests on an entire unit, using assigned numbers ONLY for each person, no names or ranks.
If the results are still the same, the SJWs still won’t shut their mouths, but the presumed bias against women will then be dismissed as twaddle.
It’s the only way to get a fair and impartial result: eliminate the possibility of bias by using neutral methods.
Have an all male unit go against an all female unit. No men to help them out.
Of course women performed the tasks more slowly. Guys aren’t afraid of breaking a nail. Rim shot.
It’s not that the women were less accurate in shooting. It’s just that most of the women preferred targets other than the ones assigned. Ba-ding. And it would have helped if the males didn’t use the term Target. Why would they want to shoot something they like? Veal. Thursday. Two shows.
Actually, I am waiting for my CARE package to arrive. Until it does, I really and truly don’t give a shit.
How much of a shot does one have to be to hold an umbrella?
How much of a working brain does one have to have to be the US President?
Judging from GW Bush, about maybe 5% ?
Judging from Barry Obama, 0% or possibly even negative values.
The assertion of, ““It has been scientifically proven that overall physical fitness — not gender — correlates to injury,” she said.”, in the Marine experiment finds women get injured more frequently, shoot less accurately than men has correctness, but it also has incorrectness.
The risk of injury in doing physically demanding occupational specific tasks has connection to bone density, muscle composition, and joint structure which are genetically determined and not alterable by physical fitness training.
For example watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Ox6s1GTSk has all the excitement and similarities of watching an NFL game. It is most likely demonstrable season injuries among plyers on the teams are comparable for both, however what would the injury reality be if co-ed NFL teams were pitted against each other? Anybody willing to offer a scientific based opinion?
(Book plug)
The Amazon Legion, by Tom Kratman, covers the concept “how to make Infantry from women”, why one might, and how it might turn out.
This book could make SJW heads explode.
This is part of Kratman’s “Carerra” series (Starts with A Desert Called Peace). I found the series entertaining and thought-provoking.
Just remember before starting the series that LTC Kratman is neither kind nor gentle to those people and concepts he considers stupid. He does, however, write a good story that more than provides the “money worth”.
I wonder when the USMC will conduct this study through a LBGT lens?
Just saying.
There is no such thing as a male Marine who received no formal infantry training.
They should stack the deck. Take only Male Admin Clerks and put them with Female………..Not Admin Clerks. Same shit will happen. Promise.
How about we just accept a lower standard of Combat Readiness? They can’t be called WM’s anymore. Knife hand is assault. Since everyone is equal now, give the guys tampons in case they identify as ……..what am I allowed to say…………Not a Male Marine but Equal to one. Whats that word……Congruence. They are the same in most ways, you know, except the ability to kill the enemy with boots on the ground.
Is that really so important anymore?
It’s not, given our strategy for defeating one of our archenemies (ISIS) consists entirely of flying 6 air sorties a week.
One question. How fast can a Marine infantry unit move if every other male marine is carrying a female or her gear? Or what happens to their effective firepower if half of the troopers have a women on their backs?
You know, if the women are facing forward, they could shoot as well. I guess the Marines will become a form of super-cavalry with both rider and steed possessing firepower.
If exoskeletal armor becomes available (in development on now), this will become a moot point, and you guys won’t have to cover your laps or worry about your egos any more when the girls show up with gunnzzz.
If an exoskeleton can restore mobility to a paraplegic vet, it can and will also be used in the battlefield. The exoskeleton, AKA bionic armor, enhances and increases the physical strength of the wearer, among other things.
If you haven’t seen the ads of the guy in the wheelchair wearing the exoskeleton and walking, you haven’t been paying attention. AND if you think that future warfare will be carried on, the same as it has been in the past, that’s another mistake.
So while your arguments about women in combat may have some merit in current conventional warfare, in the future, things will be considerably different.
Here is the HULC, currently being tested by the Army:
https://youtu.be/p2W23ysgWKI
That is at least, until the batteries run out. Then @#%! gets real again.
I love how the latest gizmo comes out and everyone thinks that will make life easier for the Infantry. long and the short of it, it won’t.
We carry heavy loads for days, we are pack mules. FM 3-21.10 (Infantry Rifle Company) States “Army research
shows that a Soldier can carry 30 percent of his body weight and retain much of his agility, stamina, alertness,
and mobility”.
Using the figures quoted in the article the average woman’s weight from the study is 142 pounds, the average male’s is 178 pounds.
Using those numbers, an average woman could carry a load of 42.6 pounds and not be encumbered according to Army Doctrine. Her average male counterpart could carry up to 53.4 pounds.
If they were to go to the max recommended load of 72 pounds, the male would be carrying 40 percent of his bodyweight, the female would be carrying 50 percent of their bodyweight.
as an extreme, I list the weight of a Javelin gunner, carrying a load of 20 pounds in his web gear, a 10 pound rifle(with optics and lasers), up to 30 pounds of body armor, and a 35 pound packing list (food, water, spare ammunition, and finally the 45 pound Javelin missile and tracker. That is 135 pounds of gear (95 PERCENT of the average female’s bodyweight as opposed to 75 percent of the Average male’s) being carried for long distances.
If you don’t believe that the average woman won’t break down having to carry that load WITHOUT AN EXOSKELETON, I want some of what you are smoking.
Yaah…no. Physical strength is the least of it. Infantry succeeds mostly from social cohesion. There is no real reason to believe that social cohesion sufficient for, oh, say, Kursk or Normandy can survive mixing sexes. Those occasions when sexually compatible people have been mixed, it has only worked when love, lust, favoritism, demoralization, and de facto prostitution were handled in some profound structural way; typically by marriage or the equivalent.
In fact, the arguments here fly in the face of what is currently being tested. Once the power problem is solved for troops, it’s ‘all ahead full’.
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/01/very-real-future-iron-man-suits-navy/102630/
Yeah!! Just like electric cars!!
oh, wait…
So basicLly the exact same bullshit that already occurs in mixed non combat units for decades.
You don’t say, Marine Corps……