Showdown in Priest River, Idaho
Veteran John Arnold suffered a stroke recently and he was treated by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. So, the VA added Arnold to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS and he instantly became ineligible for gun ownership. Yesterday, the VA sent a representative to Arnold’s house to check for any guns he might have. The representative ran into a wall of people who showed up to prevent Arnold’s weapons from being confiscated.
Among the folks who showed up, there was State Representative Heather Scott and Bonner County Sheriff Daryl Wheeler and people who came from Idaho and Washington State to take up for Arnold. According to KHQ, the VA backed off from their inspection of Arnold’s home.
At one point there are dozens of people in front of Arnold’s home protesting what they called a violation of Arnold’s rights.
Bonner County Sheriff Daryl Wheeler also stood up for Arnold’s rights. He told a VA rep that his office would stop any inspection and attempt at a weapons seizure.
Around 1:30pm, the VA announced it would not be conducting an inspection of Arnold’s home.
The VA denies that they sent someone to confiscate his guns according to the Associated Press;
Veteran Affairs spokesman Bret Bowers confirmed a letter had been sent to Arnold from the VA’s benefits office in Salt Lake City, but he said that VA policy prohibits discussing individual health records without consent. Bowers added that the agency doesn’t have the authority to confiscate weapons.
“We don’t send officers to confiscate weapons. We are about providing health care to veterans,” he said.
Yeah, well, I’m sure they’ll be back.
Thanks to our buddy, Kit, for the tip.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists, Veterans' Affairs Department
I don’t understand this.
The man had a stroke, so the VA put him on a list of criminals?
I’m trying to get my head around this. The denial that anyone was sent to confiscate Mr. Arnold’s weapons bears closer scrutiny. Where the hell does the VA get off doing this?
Seriously, I won’t go to them for anything except flu shots.
The VA was given the power a year or two ago to declare any veteran they deem necessary “mentally unfit to possess or own firearms”. Once some quack has decided that, they enter the information into NICS and walla. No more 2nd Amendment rights for you. Something many of us feel is a violation of due process under the Constitution.
But since when has a 230 year old piece of paper mattered in today’s day and age/snarc.
See, that’s the key phrase there. ‘Mentally unfit’ is not the same thing as physically unfit. A stroke can leave you physically impaired. If it’s severe enough it can leave you unable to speak for yourself. That is NOT ‘mentally unfit’, it is a PHYSICAL impairment.
Geez, sometimes I think the only real doctors any more are veterinarians, because their patients can’t speak English.
THIS is exactly what I was ranting about on Cornyn’s and similar bills. No due process, no real evaluation. Just a letter from a “doctor” that has deemed you unfit to exercise rights you signed your own life’s blood to defend.
around here most of the DOCTORS can’t speak English
Around here the patients don’t speak English
se se señor
King Putt and his minions have been pissing all over that 230 year old document since his first inauguration… and trying to take those rights away from those who oppose them every day.
Not on a list of criminals, but the Obumbles administration has moved forward with plans to disarm any Veteran that they deem should not have firearms. They are using the VA for that purpose.
That’s why when I get asked every year at my annual physical if there are any firearms in my house, I refuse to reply.
I got asked AFTER passing through security at LAX once if I had any weapons.
My answer was “you don’t know, do ya?”
My doctor gets the same answer…
My answer is this.
Any blunt, edged, or ranged weapons are stored in accordance with any and all local, state, or federal laws governing those laws, and that is all you need to know.
NICS IS a list of criminals, Trooper. That’s what the ‘C’ stands for. National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
Note that it does not say Instant Background Check. It includes ‘CRIMINAL’ in the title. So Mr. Arnold IS on a list of criminals.
Because the instant he applies for another gun purchase he becomes a criminal.
Exactly. I think he should hire an aggressively confrontational attorney to sue the pants off the VA over this.
I should have stipulated that I’m not on a list of criminals, however, I get asked every time I’m at the VA if I have firearms in my house.
VA doesn’t confiscate firearms, local law enforcement does when someone is presenting a danger to themselves or others, and with a court order. Brady bill was made to keep insane people from getting guns. Do you want crazy people to walk around with guns? Go ahead and spearhead a bill to repeal it. Oh it also keeps felons, illegals, dishonorably discharged vets, domestic violence convicts from having guns too, so they will be packing as well.
Then why do they need to know if I have them in my home?
Eric, if you truly believe what you posted, you are extremely naive about the REAL world. You really are.
You said: ‘Brady bill was made to keep insane people from getting guns.’
If that’s the case, how did Holmes (Aurora, CO) and Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook Elementary) get weapons and kill people with them?
Oh, let me answer that: Holmes was not reported by his shrink. Lanza did not want to wait the 3-day period, so he killed his own mother and stole her guns out of her safe AFTER she had been trying to get him committed. Both were/are mentally ill and had access to weapons. These are ONLY TWO examples. There are many more, if we care to dig them up.
Would you care, Eric, to explain yourself, or would you prefer to do something constructive about how naive you are?
How’s that law working out, by the way?
That’s why there is the truth and the right answer.
Oh, you can be polite and reply. Just tell them, in an even, non-angry voice: “That question has nothing to do with medical care, and the answer frankly is none of your business. I’m not going to answer that question.”
That’s usually what I do. Or I say no…(because they are in my nightstand, etc, not my house). I don’t think fibbing to a Doc is against the law…if it is, lot of folks are doing so when they answer how many adult beverages they have.
That response, Hondo, is an affirmative one to anyone who is genuinely interested in knowing if you have guns. just tell them “No I don’t.”
Even if you’re polite, declining to answer is a red flag to someone who really does want to know if you’ve got some of them scary black guns with bayonet lugs and high capacity assault clips and the shoulder thing that goes up.
So, rather than try to gauge whether the doc is just asking because he has to, or if he’s asking because he’s of the aforementioned suburbanite persuasion, I’d just say “Nope.” If called upon at some future date to be held accountable for my answer under oath, I could easily say that I keep my firearms in the garage in a safe, and the question didn’t ask that. Or I could say that I didn’t have any firearms in the home at the time of the question–the doc didn’t ask HOW LONG they’d be out of the house for, etc etc
I guess what I’m trying to say is that anyone (and I do mean Any Damn One) asking if I have guns in my house isn’t to be trusted, and should probably be lied to, unless they have a court order/warrant.
Doc replies “So that’s a ‘Yes.'” 😉
And the reply to that is, “Not at all. It’s a refusal to answer the question either way because it is not relevant to medical care. Now, it’s my turn to ask an intrusive and irrelevant question: are you gay, and did you get laid last night?”
And if you really want to be insulting in a polite way, you can ask if your inquisitor has syphilis, because if it’s untreated, it leads to insanity. And has he been treated for his own obsession with the possessions of other people?
It’s not only us at physicals, they’re going after the kids as well. Schools now give “health screenings” during which, in some cases I know if, they are asked if there are any guns in their homes.
Now unless they are specifically asking if I have shotguns, blow guns or artillery pieces at the house, I can honestly say I have no “guns”. (the HOA won’t let me park my M110A2 in the driveway).
Might have to be a little less than honest about pistols and rifles…
I believe the question is usually phrased as ‘firearms’.
Hmmmm. Are artillery pieces consideredfirearms?
I’d say no, and neither would tanks.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/world-war-two-tank-discovered-in-german-mans-basement-10365618.html
I feel better now. 😉
Reports that anyone not managing their own finances will be declared too incompetent to own a firearm as well. Again, no notice, no due process.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/social-security-admin-ignores-congress-on-gun-rights/
Yeah, I saw that in July and brought it up on another thread.
First of all, you have to prove incompetence, which takes a lot of evidence.
Second, having someone with Power of Attorney manage things for you if, for example, you are injured in an accident or taking an extended leave of absence does not make you incompetent. It makes you smart.
If you’re gone on deployment, for instance, you still have bills to pay and legal things have to be addressed by someone else acting on your behalf.
That is the purpose of power of attorney.
It does NOT signify incompetence, no matter how much that asshole in the White House wants to make it that way. It says common sense and a smart manager.
If you win the lottery, for example, the lottery people always advise you to put your prize winnings into a trust to protect it. If we take the power-hungry imbeciles WDC at face value, they look at this as a show of incompetence, which it is not.
Doing the smart thing is now seen as a means of depriving you of your rights.
What’s next on their list of crap they intend to throw at us?
I have never been asked that, however , they get around it by asking if “are you depressed”? meaning they can send you to mental health and thats the same as saying, he is mentally incompetent, no guns for him! They are so freaking incompetent, so freaking stupid, so freaking communist…its unbelievable!!
Old Trooper….from another born in the 40’s. Last year during my annual physical, a nurse specialist of some kind went through the process of interviewing me. Not far from the top was the “Do you own any firearms or keep any in your home?” My answer was simply, “If I did, I would sure as hell not tell you”. She tried the same question from another angle, trying to relax me, saying, “Well, we know everybody around here owns weapons.” My lips remained tight and they never asked me again. Why would I tell anyone if or where I have weapons? Give me a legitimate reason for being asked. In spite of what PH-2 says, I refuse the flu shot and any questions dealing with self protection. BTW, the flu shot is the reason a number of people have the flu each and every year. The normal excuse is: “Well we can’t accurately predict the shot will stop EVERY type of flu.” Like many others I can positively tell you many who get the shot end up with the flu shortly there after. Here’s the kicker..look up Gillian-Barre Syndrome. No liability for those who offer and give the shot. About every other year I get the flu. Straight to the med provider and get an antibiotic called “Z Pak”. Don NOT follow my lead, make up your mind on you own. What works for me may NOT work for you.
Bottom line is this, regardless of the intent, you have to use your own judgment when it comes to taking all that is placed before you.
This is simply a new variation of what has been going on for decades. There are many veterans who were declared (often without their knowledge) having PTS or some other mental issue and added to the NICS list. Good luck with getting off it once placed there.
Slightly OT: Jonn, is that your 1911? It has character and obviously has seen some use. Love it.
Nope, that’s not mine. The Remington Rand I own has the old brown plastic arms room grips, but the guy I bought it from says that he carried mine in the Korean War.
Mine is a One Piece at a Time (H/T Johnny Cash). My Dad had a shoe box full of various 1911 parts. My bro found it after Dad passed and had an armorer build me one from the parts. Its probably has parts from all the 1911 manufacturers.
SJ…..My 1911 is a Colt, sent home in pieces in a tape recorder. I looked up the serial # made in 1944.
Show of hands:
How many of you have had VA reps come to your house to make sure you were safe and sound???
Kinda what I figured….
Heck, I cannot get the VA to let me come to their house to obtain entitlements without making them my primary health care provider so some other vet without my medical coverage gets screwed out of being treated. I would pay good money to have someone from the VA come to my home to confiscate my weapons and I know a whole hep of people who would pay good money to watch.
Maybe it’s time the VA was subjected to much closer scrutiny, not just about wasteful employees, but also about things like this. Unless I’m not understanding this correctly, the VA can declare anyone coming to them for anything, even a flu shot, mentally ill if it suits their needs.
Well, that does sound like the ‘1984’ approach to me. Didn’t Hitler’s goons do the same thing?
Any ‘mental health professional’ can do the same, not just the VA. And there is no official definition of a ‘mental health provider’ that I’m aware of.
The only good thing I see in this is that those who falsely claimed PTSD may wish they hadn’t. As for the VA’s response, that it doesn’t discuss medical info, I’m guessing that it was a form letter and that, as such, it damn well could have been shared with the world. It had something in it or a representative of those who make the laws and those who enforce the laws would not have been present.
Good points.
What about those that do have it? It wasn’t the VA that diagnosed me. When I got diagnosed I was asked if I thought I had it and I replied no. I was asked why I thought I didn’t and I replied that because I didn’t want it. The person was shocked and said that she had never recieved that answer before.
Glad to see that at least not all Americans have been brainwashed.
The VA does not have the right to deem anyone they care to as being incompetent. In fact, if you would look into this a little bit more than some paranoid headlines, the Incompetency Ruling is most always the result of a Veteran requesting it, or their Power of Attorney requesting it Go to the VA Web Site, and read about it… the process clearly tells Veteran that they will lose their rights to own guns under the Brady Hand Gun Bill.
I do not know this mans individual story, but… If you are deemed incompetent by the VA, it is like every other claim you file, and it can be appealed, and changed if you are not incompetent.
I don’t get it Jonn, the other day you are praising proposed legislation that would force States to comply with this law, and here you are hammering the VA for following the Law.
We have to get past this “I’m a Veteran, and therefore I can never be deemed incompetent.”
Hint folks, STROKE… a stroke can leave someone with impaired mental capacity as well as physical. A Stroke can lead to impaired judgment, and even completely change ones personality.
Most strokes do not effect the brain like you want to claim. I have had 2 strokes for certain. You have not read about me going on a killing spree or the vast majority of others that have had a stroke either. Not one case has said a stroke caused a shooting. Work for the VA doctor or a libtard? Joe
Since when is an administrative decision by a VA employee “due process of law” – as is specifically required by the 14th Amendment before an individual’s Constitutional rights can be denied?
I don’t have any problem with the VA going to court to have a vet declared incompetent if there is reason to question the individual’s mental competentcy. But absent that, I have a HUGE problem with the opinion of a single individual, sitting in an office and hearing only one side of a story in a non-adversarial proceeding, taking away ANY fundamental right specifically guaranteed by the Constitution. That should occur only AFTER due process of law has been given the individual concerned. And for a fundamental Constitutional right, the requisite due process is a hearing in a court of law.
It takes a court order to get a search warrant. It takes a court order to keep someone in custody (arraignment hearing). It takes a court order to take someone’s property. It takes a court order (gag order) to restrain someone’s freedom of speech on a particular subject. In all these cases, we bend over backwards to ensure that the rights guaranteed to all by the Bill of Rights aren’t violated.
Why in the hell is the 2nd Amendment any damn different?
I was thinking the same thing, Hondo. The whole due process of law and search warrant issue are two things that won’t pass judicial scrutiny if the VA were to try this again somewhere.
I think this whole competency thing needs to be looked at with more scrutiny. As mentioned here in other discussions, there’s the possibility of doctors, physician assistants or mental health professionals who may deem someone “incompetent” without having some kind of judicial ruling on the matter first.
In my mind, issues that SHOULD be reported to NICS aren’t, and there are some situations (such as this one) which are, but they’re not challenged.
Again Hondo, as we have had this discussion before. The VA reacts to claims made by Veterans for disability, and in the case of a Veteran who tells the VA he needs an increase in his Disability because he is no longer able to handle his own affairs, if the VA determines that this is in fact the case under Federal Law (Brady handgun act) they are required to report the Veteran incompetency to the NICS.
The Claims Process is a Legal Process, initiated by the Veteran. The VA DOES NOT initiate the claims process.
They are a Legal Authority though under US Code, and if they legally in the claims process determine a Veteran is incompetent, they will report them as they are required to.
The VA DOES NOT Confiscate guns. They do not send VA Officials to homes to confiscate guns. That is a Law Enforcement matter, not a VA Healthcare or VBA Matter.
The VA Clearly states that losing your rights to own/possess/purchase guns and ammo can be a result of the claim process for incompetency.
rb, we simply have no way of knowing your personal experience with stroke victims, your medical training or much else. I will assume that you have some and that you are an honorable human being.
“Stroke” covers lot of territory, as others have pointed out. It does not automatically mean either mental or physical impairment, and says nothing whatever about the permanency of any impairment which might exist at any given moment.
That said, may of us here DO have some experience with strokes, having observed them up close and personal with family members others. In the civilian world, I have had family members ordered by their docs to not drive, for instance, until they completed rehab following a stroke. Some never were cleared to drive again while others later resumed their normal lives. All physical limitations which either were or were not overcome.
Have also been around the other type of stroke which causes none of the obvious physical damage but resulted in noticeable personality changes. So what? Getting grouchy, or more docile, is NOT a criminal offense and certainly not something which out of hand should trigger curtailment of civil rights or the ability to defend oneself.
Yeah, and every bit of what Hondo said about due process et al.
Again, the VA Claims process is a legal one. It involves penalties for false statements, and it includes the very real possibility of the Claimant being subject to The Brady Handgun Act, which requires persons deemed incompetent to be reported to the NICS.
The Process IS NOT Initiated by the VA. It is initiated by the Veteran. The VA has legal authority to hear claims for compensation, to render legal decisions on those claims, and there is a legal appeal process for Veterans in the claim process.
The fact of the matter is, that the Claims Process is rife with due process. Not to mention the whole thing is initiated by the Veteran who is looking for benefits from the VA.
Negative. The VA has legal authority to receive claims relating to VA benefits. However, the VA claims process is an administrative process which executes that legal authority. The same is true of the VA appeals process. That is in general true for executive branch functions outside the DoJ, and for many activities within DoJ as well.
Legal proceedings occur in a court of law, under the authority of the Judicial Branch. The VA is an Executive Branch entity and, except for it’s few LE personnel empowered to conduct investigations and its lawyers involved in court actions does not conduct legal proceedings.
The only time a VA claims issue becomes a legal matter vice administrative is if someone files suit, or if an investigation indicates criminal wrongdoing. At that point, the matter moves from administrative to legal.
Ah, nope! In this country the executive branch (VA and other agencies) is separate from the judicial branch (DoJ and their lawyers).
Note that angencies do not have attorneys, they have legal counsels. The DoJ employees the govt practicing lawyers.
Now stepping back a wee bit, agencies like SSA, CIS and other agencies may employ Administrative Law Judges, way different, they may have to in the case of rule on policy, procedure and or doctrine. They don’t do law. That is for lawyers!
So in review, the VA is as fucht’d up as a regional cable company who promised a Friday afternoon appointment between 12:00 and 4:00 pm, but you found the cableman sleeping half naked and drunk on your lawn first thing Saturday morning.
PS: Cable van was no where in sight.
WHO declared some of the MORONS in the VA competent??
http://www.benefits.va.gov/fiduciary/beneficiary.asp
So, what you’re saying is that the VA can’t take your guns, but if they do, that’s good. ‘K, got it.
Three letters – WTF?
I thought you couldn’t be denied your rights without due process, but then I’m weird like that
In theory, the 14th Amendment says exactly that.
In practice, often governments “push the envelope” with respect to restricting individual rights until someone pushes back publicly and/or through the courts.
Survey says: 84% of those polled think the government and/or its reps should NOT have the right to seize weapons.
Wow. The VA has inserted itself into a very hot, very fiery can of worms here.
A stroke does not make you incompetent, just physically impaired, and if I understand that article from KHQ, the stroke Mr. Arnold suffered only slightly impairs him physically.
A legitimate question is, if I simply go to the VA for an annual flu shot, am I going to be subjected to asinine questions like ‘do you have any weapons’?
That has nothing – NOT A DAMNED THING – with getting a flu shot, does it now? You see, everything in my kitchen can be used for self-defense, including the sauce pans on my stove – not that I would say anything like that to those morons.
So what position does that put you in when you only want a flu shot and someone asks you these invasive and insulting questions that have nothing to do with getting a flu shot?
As I responded to the gorgeous female soldier outside of the PX on Camp Stryker when she asked me where my weapon was,”my body is a weapon”. She was doing that because she left her weapon somewhere. My M-9 was difficult to see because my blouse kind of covered it. Her response was to smile and say,”of course, you are from Texas.”. The VA would get a similar response, but they never asked me. I kind of wish they would.
“This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for fightin’ this is for fun”! lol
That’s always been my thinking. “The mind is the only true weapon. Everything else is a tool.”
That, and, “Any chair in a barfight”. (There’s a Latin translation for that, but I’m too lazy to look it up at the memoent)
Just the thought of sending a single individual into someone’s house to conduct an “inspection” creeps me out. What if they find gold jewelry, or gold coins, or a stack of cash? In order to find the guns, they would have to look in every nook and cranny. No telling what they could find, and presumably steal. The policy, if it exists, would seem to be seriously flawed.
If my health was diminished and someone came into my house to inspect it for whatever reason, I would want at least one advocate/witness and I would think an intelligent well managed VA would want that as well.
Too bad we don’t know what there policy is, due to health privacy concerns [cough bullshit cough].
Ditto – sorry, unless GDContractor is in my house, too, you can’t come in. Go back to your desk and sort paper clips like a good boy.
The VA doesn’t discuss “individual health records without consent.” They don’t need to, we can just ask the Chinese what they went there for and they can pull it from the VA records and tell us.
I’m glad I don’t need the VA for anything, I’ve never taken a VA loan, asked for health care, or even visited a VA office for myself (I’ve taken friends and family for services).
My private insurance more than covers my needs so I won’t be worrying about some addle-pated twat deciding whether I am fit to own a firearm or not…
You need to watch the private docs as well now. They, and hospitals, have started asking some intrusive questions and things which at first seem rather innocuous.
For instance, they are asking if the spouse is retired. What dif does that make to my routine health care? Have also been asked about firearms in our home. To which I asked if they were for or against it.
The last census, I came in with the census taker standing in my living room talking with my wife, sweet as she is. Well, not only did I order him out immediately but, well, let’s just say I wouldn’t have been shocked to learn he quit his job after being expelled. It wasn’t pretty and I told him that it was not anything about him at all but that my beef was with his employer, the government, and that it had business asking questions that were being asked. Brother, did I ever go off. Broke the needle on the Pissed Off gauge. Poor bastard. He’s probably still having nightmares.
Last Census, I refused to let them in the house, and refused to answer some of their BS questions, even though it was the short form. They kept coming back for days. I gave them fits.
I’d just like to say good for the Sheriff here. I’d like to think mine would do the same. I’ve met him and he seems like a down to earth, no BS type of guy.
Ditto on kudos to the Sheriff. I have the feeling that if the VA rep pushed their luck with him, they’d have been “inspecting” the county lockup. I’d have paid good money to see that.
I find it very comforting that there are plenty of Law Enforcement Agencies and Personnel out there that are genuinely concerned about enforcing laws AND defending peoples’ rights, a truckload of KUDOS to Sherrif Daryl Wheeler and everyone else who took part in standing up to the Government goons!
All the more reason to not use the VA. Never have, never will.
My husband will (truthfully) answer ‘no’ if he is asked that question. All the guns are mine 😉
Oh, dear – I just had a thought. (I know: it must have hurt. 😛 )
What about John Mallernee? He’s not going to take something like that lightly. He wears a gun everywhere, doesn’t he?
Yep, even to a Wal-Mart shopping trip.
That 85 year old greeter is not gonna screw up his day.
I think 90% of the population carries in AZ. I don’t always carry but there are places here that aren’t always populated by upstanding citizens.
If there aren’t any pictures of a scary black semi tractor with an equally scary black pup trailer pulled up in front of this guy’s house, then there was no visit by a VA rep to search and confiscate firearms.
Same goes for pictures of the all clothed in black VA SWAT Team and the possibly needed load out team of VA employees. And where’s the black helicopters needed for air cover?
No pictures – No VA visit.
Unfortunately I have first hand knowledge of what strokes can do.
To paraphrase the great Forrest Gump
“Strokes are like a box of Chocolates, you never can tell what you are going to get”
Depending on the part of the brain and the severity you can end up with anything from a slight tic in one hand to being graveyard dead in seconds.
Strokes can physically alter your brain chemistry and cause emotional issues due to disability.
It sounds to me like the gentlemen set off some red flags as far as his emotional and mental state while under treatment.
Im not buying that a VA rep went there to take his weapons. First thety dont have the authority, second, they aren’t armed.
It probably was someone sent to do a welfare check to see how he was living.
I did read that article and it appears that there was some justification in Mr. Arnold’s concerns. As others have noted, the VA is not in the habit of going to anyone’s house to do a welfare check. I might ask the local police to do that in the winter, if we have a blizzard and my driveway hasn’t been cleared by the 2nd day, but that’s an entirely different matter.
I don’t have as many friends as Mr. Arnold, but as long as one of my hands work, I am pretty good with a pistol gun. It might very dangerous for anyone without a court order to inspect my domicile. It’s called Private Property for a damn good reason.
The only time I have been asked by a health care provider if I have guns was by my civilian doctor while I was still in the Army. He is also a gun owner and it seemed like half of every doctors appointment was spent discussing the merits of different types of firearms with him.
Granted, that there WAS a visit by someone, from an organization, VA or not. Hopefully, a name was procured from said visiting individual. How’s about turning the tide on said individual, and visiting HIS place of residence, and snooping about HIS property and belongings?? Hmmmm??
Just wondering. If the VA does manage somehow to confiscate John Arnold’s guns, will Mr. Arnold be provided with a 24/7 armed bodyguard? Bonner County, Idaho, that’s some lonesome country. Jesus, Priest Lake’s population’s only 1,751 and the largest town and county seat, Sandpoint, is just 7,365. The countywide population is 40,877. My point is this. If John Arnold loses his right to protect his property, his family and himself, who will be there to defend him? Maybe his neighbors? Or perhaps Mr. Arnold could just dial 911 and wait 20 to 25 minutes for help to arrive. I don’t know about anyone else, but I much rather have my own guns so that I can defend MYSELF. And not have to rely on someone else to do it for me. Well, I better shut up now before I piss off someone at the VA. 😉
i had carpal tunnel and thumb surgery 2 years ago. The nurse started asking me questions and asked if I had guns in my home. This was not VA. I asked her what it had to do with hand surgery and she got all nervous. I asked doctor same question when he came in. His response: nothing. He said that the hospital he used was making him ask, but said he told nurses not to ask it. He apologized and said he would talk to the nurse. He moved to a different hospital within three months, one of the reasons being he didn’t like the policies of the old one.
The absolute way in which many here have allowed themselves to be led by inflammatory headlines is astounding.
The VA Has not authority to, nor does it have the means to confiscate weapons. It has NEVER confiscated weapons from Veterans EXCEPT when they are brought onto VA Property.
The VA Officials going to that house, were doing so as a part of the process initiated by the Veteran. Read the information at the link. http://www.benefits.va.gov/fiduciary/beneficiary.asp
Yeah, I read it. In essence, it says that the VA has decided it will take it on themselves to declare any person who has requested assistance in managing their VA benefits to be a “mental defective”. This isn’t to be done on a case-by-case basis after evaluation of the individual’s mental state. Rather, this is to be done as a matter of policy. It is to be done without benefit of any type of legal hearing whatsoever and without the individual having a chance a priori to object. Any objections are heard only after the fact – e.g., after the person has already lost a fundamental Constitutional right.
That, sir, is bullsh!t. It’s something I’d expect to see in the former USSR – and in fact, happened often. It’s not something I’d expect to see in the USA.
As I said earlier: removing a Constitutional right guaranteed by the Bill of Rights requires due process of law; the 14th Amendment guarantees that. This VA policy does not provide due process of law whatsoever. This is bureaucracy at its worst – and violates the US Constitution’s 14th Amendment.
If the VA has reason to believe that a particular veteran is mentally incompetent, they have my blessing to request a judge to declare that individual to be mentally incompetent. But the VA does NOT have the right to do so as a matter of policy any time someone requests a particular form of assistance.
I often remain mute when you have already posted exactly what my thoughts are.
Due Process seems to be a thing of the past.
As I pointed out prior, RB325th, if you have a financial position to protect and
you do something smart with your finances, e.g., put it into a trust to protect it from financial predators, and you give power of attorney to someone to pay the taxes and your bills if needed, the VA can decide without cause OR proof that you are incompetent and put you on that list of mentally defective, even if their only ‘evidence’ is that you did something smart to protect your personal finances.
That there is no basis for a decision like that, other than a legal action on your part which would be considered smart by anyone who has a brain cell working, it is presumptive, arrogant and a direct violation of your rights.
One of these days, they’ll hit the wrong person with something like that, and they will pay for it.
There is another Randy Weaver in the making over this.
Someone will draw a line in the sand and they will have supporters.
I do not believe the government representatives will be rewarded for killing a wife and infant child this time.
Actually, Dave, I was thinking more along the lines of massive class action lawsuit against the VA going all the way to the Supremes, and garners some seriously BAD PR for the VA, something they can’t walk away from.
Let us hope it is only a lawsuit.
Something to keep in mind here is that the liberal twit that Obama appointed U.S. Surgeon General is a dedicated gun-grabber who is pushing this concept that guns in the home are a health issue.
To me, it’s more of a stealth issue where the liberal Democrat party is using whatever means they can come up with to disarm the American public. This business of doctors asking if you own guns is their way of getting around the fact that we do not have to register our weapons. By asking during health interviews, they are gathering information that you can damn well bet is going into a database somewhere in the federal bureaucracy. And if you tell anyone in the health care system that you own guns, you can bet your ass your name and personal info will go into it.
As for a doctor asking me that question, should it occur I’m going to respond, “Let me get you my lawyer’s phone number and you can ask him about the legality of you asking me that question because I’m really not sure you have any right to do that.”
Then, after a pause, I’ll follow up with, “He should know, Doc, because he’s a big medical malpractice plaintiff’s attorney. Want his number?”
Betcha that stops that line of questioning in its tracks.
I read that link to the ‘fiduciary’ section that RB325th so kindly provided, and I find the VA’s presumptious attitude to be appalling. If you have not noticed this, let me remind you that someone who is declared legally incompetent would be under some kind of supervised care. This is aimed at keeping someone with Alzheimer’s or dementia from wandering off, as an example. It is meant to provide long-term supervision and care for people who are unable to look after themselves. The VA’s ‘fiduciary benefits’ section clearly indicates that their only interest lies in finding something wrong with someone who comes to them for medical treatment. There is nothing to indicate that the VA will provide supervision or long-term care for the individual whom they declare ‘mentally defective’, based on whatever, or that they take any responsibility for their declaration. Mr. Arnold was treated by the VA for a stroke and sent home. There is NO indication that he was afforded any kind of follow-up care by an in-home provider like a visiting nurse, and as indicated elsewhere, he lives in a sparsely-populated area, so this follow-up would benefit him. Instead of in-home care, he received a letter that he felt threatened him and called attention to it. I do not think his concerns were groundless, so why was he declared ‘mentally defective’ other than to take his only means of self-protection away from him and leave him with nothing? Well, to me this is a lesson learned. I’m aware of in-home senior services in my area and will inquire about getting assistance for grocery shopping and changing the bed, should I need it. I will make sure that my neighbors and I all dig each other out in a blizzard and that if I need a well-being check, the police are welcome to knock on my door. I might also get that Life Alert button thingy, although I don’t know if it’s really any good or not. I’m not at a point where I just want to sit all day. That might be 20 or 30 years off.… Read more »
Interesting fact:
Per the ATF, in many states, if you have CCW permit, you are basically exempt from NICS checks for 5 years after the permit issue date. Idaho is one of those states.
So the thought process being, if you have a current CCW permit, and VA or anyone else puts you on the NICS list, under what basis does anyone have to check for your name? You’re exempt from a background check so you would think they would have no legal right to do one unless you are busted for some illegal activity.
Something to chew on for a while…
When do we as vets say no more?
When does this government stop labeling vets as threats?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAGOApqFQoTCKG_5-fXmccCFQGUDQodxjoMsA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetruthaboutguns.com%2F2015%2F04%2Frobert-farago%2Fsenator-grassley-letter-to-eric-holder-why-are-veterans-on-the-nics-gun-ban-list%2F&ei=vhDGVaHoCoGoNsb1sIAL&usg=AFQjCNFqYFhN8rkm-Sik5CCxBl4g6irXpQ&bvm=bv.99804247,d.eXY
Obviously, there are unresolved hostilities in the childhoods of the people who are in the current (lack of) administration. I think they should all seek some professional help for their problem.