Feds to fund Vets’ pot study
Talking Points Memo reports that the Feds will fund a study to investigate the usefulness of marijuana for treating PTS;
The Department of Health and Human Services’ decision surprised marijuana advocates who have struggled for decades to secure federal approval for research into the drug’s medical uses.
The proposal from the University of Arizona was long ago cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, but researchers had been unable to purchase marijuana from the National Institute on Drug Abuse. The agency’s Mississippi research farm is the only federally-sanctioned source of the drug.
In a letter last week, HHS cleared the purchase of medical marijuana by the studies’ chief financial backer, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, which supports medical research and legalization of marijuana and other drugs.
I expect that phonies will overwhelm the program. Take, for example, Wayward Bill Chengelis who pretended to have PTS from an imaginary tour of Vietnam and used his phony tales and his own pretend research on pot-use easing the pretend-symptoms of his pretend-condition. We have Matthis Chiroux who is a known drug user and he pretends that he has PTS from hearing other people talk about their deployments. We have Jeremy Bergren who caught pretend PTS because his unit deployed without him. We have Zachary Findlay-Maddox who caught the PTS because he could see the smoke from the Pentagon on 9-11 from about seven miles away and his pizzaman looked like bin Laden. We have Joseph Cryer who is on 100% disability with VA from a pretend invasion of Libya he made and, of course, he has PTS. Well, that should be plenty of examples, and that’s just from our own files.
So, if you really have PTS, by all means seek treatment and maybe this works, but expect a long line ahead of you.
Category: Veteran Health Care, Veterans' Affairs Department
Okay….I get the arguments and the pro’s and con’s regarding the medical marijuana issue and to be honest I’m sitting on the fence. What I cannot get past is all of the years that I spent locking people up while in possession of this “gateway” drug and believe me, these people didn’t view it at the time as for medical purposes….only to get high.
The other problem I have? Every time I see our POTUS in that photo wearing that asinine hat smoking his joint in the Choom Gang I get a little weak in the stomach.
Up In Smoke, that’s where our money goes…….
The facts are that “pot” has not been studied enough and does not meet the same requirements as any other prescription drug where it is legal. Those requirements being quality control to insure that each and every dose is the same. Without having a standard dosage or potency there a person could be getting absolutely nothing from their pot or way more than they “require”, and I have yet to see any real studies that show it has any real benefit over prescription marinol or other already legal forms of the drug for example.
Sure study it.. please have a real honest study of its effects good and bad, because I am tired of the pro pot people abiding by the old “if I say it is true, then it must be…” when it comes to what the benefits are and how “harmless it is”.
My own opinion on it is this, the “Medical marijuana” argument has been nothing more than a massive smoke screen to get it legalized for personal use. The medicinal use of it has been shown to be only marginally effective and where it is legal it has been utterly abused by those seeking it for “medical conditions” and the doctors willing to also abuse the system. never mind the illegal grow operations that have flourished because of it.
Even Colorado with all their talk about how much tax revenue they are seeing thru legalized pot for personal use, has also already seen a huge uptick in abuse by those not legal to smoke it. To the point they are using it in schools with devices to mask the distinct smell. Many of those come store bought.
I’ve been involved with two studies of Marinol. Both times it not only made me physically ill, but did nothing for my pain.
I don’t know if it was missing a chemical compound that actual marijuanna has, or if maybe the Marinol didn’t interact exactly the same way as the marijuanna did. But, whatever the reason(s), it doesn’t work for me.
Read below for my particular experience.
There have actually been a few studies to suggest that it is the synergistic effect of multiple substances in natural cannabis (which aren’t present in Marinol) which accounts for the most robust response.
Sooooooo confession time. I don’t use pot … not with any regularity, and actually not in quite some time. Sure, when I was in high school I smoked it off and on, but that was … what … 84-87. Since then I’ve been a soldier and a cop, as well as holding other jobs requiring regular urine/blood/hair tests. So I never used it, regardless of what my personal opinion about it was. Come 2010. I’m a weird cross between a paraplegic and a quadriplegic. Sort of a paraplegic with additional deficits in my upper body, hands, and arms; but not quite a true quad. Sometimes uncontrollable spasms rock my body so hard it tears muscles and tendons if I’m not ready for it. I know the warning signs, but they’re subtle and if I’m actively busy I can miss them. They can literally rip my body apart, and it takes days, sometimes weeks to heal from them. I’ve also quite literally been prescribed every anti-spasmodic drug under the sun, all to no avail. Some worked for a short time, but nothing for longer than a few months. Sadly some of them have major side affects, like quickly killing your liver if you’re not careful. Finally, after several years of this, in 2010 a friend convinced me to try marijuanna during one of these spasm-sessions. I took three “hits” or puffs. The next eight hours was the most peaceful my body has been in years. And I don’t mean peaceful as in mental, I mean as in physically very little pain and zero spasms. I tried marijuanna twice more in 2010, and not since then. Both the second and third time the results were the same as the first. Seriously reduced amount of pain and zero spasms for about eight hours. (And as a side note here. My pain isn’t “real” pain in the sense that I have a broken arm and pain from that. It’s more like phantom pain, similar to someone who has lost a limb but still feels it, because of the spinal cord injury. From the nipples… Read more »
Gravel. Your statements constitute the best argument I’ve ever heard in favor of the medical use of marijuana, bar none. There is–or should not be–a stigma attached to using marijuanma for the purpose you described. The University of Arizona will not lack for volunteers for its study. You might want to sent an inquiry to them–along with the comment you made. You cannot be convicted of any crime based upon what you wrote and research studies pay real money to their volunteers.
I’m pretty sure the statute of limitations is up in Florida for the misdemeanor crimes LOL but thanks.
Additionally, I’ll reiterate, I haven’t tried it since the three times in 2010. I actually do not like the feeling of being high which lasted about two and one half hours, leaving me about five and one half hours without pain and without being high.
I also have no idea what a different batch of marijuanna (chemically) would do. All three times I tried it in 2010 came from the same “bud” of the same plant. So all three times was essentially the same chemical combinations. Again, I just think that the federal government should be open to studying it instead of just saying ‘nope, it’s a schedule one drug, therefore we’re not doing it.’
As far as legalizing it for regular everyday pot heads? Personally it’s not my thing, but I couldn’t give two shits if someone wants to smoke a joint rather than drink a six pack of beer. But that’s a different discussion than this one.
One last thing (LOL) for this study they’re talking about using it for PTS, which I don’t have. I have no clue the benefits there. If it works, it works, but I have no personal idea or basis to judge it on for that.
As I said, there is not enough legitimate research on this. there is some, but not enough.
I know what you mean about perscription drugs and their side effects, which is why I take very few myself and have tried to find other ways of dealing with the pain I get on a daily basis as well. Fortunately for myself I don’t think mine even comes close to the same level of pain as you suffer from.
I cannot say for certain I would not try just about anything to alleviate it as well if it came to it.
Something you said though about the perscriptions, for a while they worked then stopped… I get it, have been on numerous meds for nerve pain and none really seem to work, and I refuse to take any of those you referenced that the possible side effects are worse than the pain I have. Thing is, we don’t know all the possible side effects of pot either. We don’t know what potencies are beneficial, there is no standard for it and no way to control it either, other than via a pill or IV form.
Too many questions, and I hope the study will provide real answers and is not simply a study with a predetermined outcome, one way or the other.
I hope you find some way of dealing with that level of pain. I can only begin to imagine what it is like.
I certainly agree … in fact I’ve added on sub-comments about the chemical compounds. My experience was extremely limited to three uses over about 10 days, all from the same bud. So the chemical compound was essentially the same each time.
And yeah, basically I’ve thrown all my meds out and just deal with it. The meds (in some cases) were doing extreme damage to other, working parts of my body, like the liver.
As for the occasional toothache, I still use my grandfather’s remedy. A spoonful of good bourbon held on the offending location for a few minutes. Better than that nasty Oralgel crap.
Gravel,
I absolutely understand your “pins & needles” and “burning” sensation comments. I have a tumor in my lower spine that is, fortunately, benign, but has pushed it’s way through my spinal cord from back to front, like how a tree grows around a rock, etc.
Those same sensations occur in my legs and especially along the tops of my feet and toes. The closest I can describe the pain is like someone pulling a piece of emory cloth over a sunburn. It hurts, and there’s very little I can do to relieve the pain.
I also have a constant low-grade pain in my lower back and both hips that sometimes becomes so bad that I can barely function. The VA has given me all sorts of drugs and they can keep the pain at bay but it’s hard to function while on them (I’m a single parent and need to be there) and when they wear off I almost always feel like I’m hungover. Nauseous, tired, worn out, etc.
I’ve never smoked any weed. I don’t know if it’d help, but at this point, there’s not a whole lot of options left for me.
Thanks for sharing your story. I hope you can get the help you need.
@Gravel
There but for the grace of God, go I.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a personal narration of pain so well written and with the emotion that it brings to the reader.
I’m no longer on that fence I described in my previous comment.
I wish you the best, Gravel. My prayers are with you and your family.
🙂 Thanks
Ugh… I thought I was done writing … so after some more thought I wanted to touch on something semi-related to the actual topic vis-à-vis marijuanna and PTS.
I have a family member that suffers from severe depression. This particular family member smokes a lot of pot. Their particular claim is that the pot helps them through the depression.
Now I have no personal idea if it works or not. Maybe for the time this person is stoned they’re not depressed, I just don’t really know.
But I will say, from personal observation, even though this person will completely deny it, when they come down from the marijuanna high they are more depressed than before they smoked the marijuanna to begin. It’s an endless and vicious circle for this person. In this particular case the marijuanna is not helping, but that’s only apparent to everyone around this person, and not to the actual person. Denial, it’s not just a river in Egypt … as the old saying goes.
Now this particular person is a perfectly healthy (other than the depression) 30 year old who still lives with mommy and daddy, can’t hold a job other than waiting tables or as a barista at Starbucks, and absolutely refuses to grow up. This person in a recent telephone conversation even told me that they’re not willing to grow up, that they’re just planning on living life as un-responsible as they can. All this regardless of the fact that this person has a fantastic gift with computer programming languages and could seriously work for any company that writes programs that they wanted to … IF they wanted to.
Is marijuanna a detriment in this particular case? You bet your sweet ass it is.
Certainly PTS is not the same as depression, but I’m sure depression can be and is a part of PTS in a large amount of cases. So I have to really wonder about the effectiveness of marijuanna in regards to PTS.
Research it to make sure it doesn’t actually kill anybody is fine, we put drugs out everyday with commercials about how nice it is to be able to walk again after suffering debilitating arthritis as long as you don’t mind the possible side effect of sudden death or disabling stroke….because those drugs are heavily researched by Pfizer and others like them the FDA gives approval and we move on to the next miracle drug…we like drugs for everything in this country….your kid acts up in school? Give him a little Ridalin, can’t get relaxed? Take a xanax, can’t get a hard on, take a viagra…etc…etc…etc…the drugs that we make money on and have some testing done are released to the public along with notices about side effects and we move on….we are a nation of dopers, most of our dope comes from our doctors though so it’s okay….why tell folks to lose weight and eat better when lipitor and metaprolol can cut your cholesterol and your high blood pressure? Drugs make hard life choices and personal responsibility unnecessary, but drugs to get high? Oh boy don’t do that, you are somehow more immoral than the fat slob eating sausages all day and swallowing lisiniprol like gumdrops…when you have people taking drugs for high blood pressure for 40 years starting at age 40 you have drug addicts who are being kept alive with these drugs…sure some people are genetically predisposed and others are just lazy undisciplined turds who won’t lose weight or exercise…how are they morally superior to the guy getting high in his garage? Is it because a doctor is giving him the drugs? We need an honest discussion about drugs both legal and illegal in this country, but there’s virtually no chance to have that discussion because of the money being made legally and illegally from drugs….the war on drugs is a multi-billion dollar affair that employs a great many workers there is no chance of ending that war, and the legal drugs are a multi-billion dollar affair closely tied to the government so that’s not going away….we’ll just… Read more »
I love how the biggest proponents of legalizing cannabis just seem to totally ignore the research suggesting a strong correlation between cannabis use and psychotic illness. Certainly, I’ve seen spice smokers on the ward who have been psychotic for days to weeks on end as a result of their use. Granted, it’s still not clear whether people prone to psychosis just gravitate towards pot or that it ultimately causes it in people not predisposed to psychosis, but there definitely seems to be association of some type. I have no doubt that pot has some medicinal benefits and God knows that prescription drugs are not a panacea for everything. My concern though is that this will quickly turn into 1) an excuse for all bad behavior and a get out of jail free pass from anyone with a 112A and 2) yet another excuse for people to forgo psychotherapy in lieu of drugs.
1. Spice is not marijuana.
2. Marijuana is most likely the most researched drug on the planet.
3. Marijuana is a political lever. Most studies are slanted as such.
4. Proponents of anything ignore relevant facts from the opposition.
5. Any effective treatment without narcotics is better than any effective treatment with narcotics.
6. Much like fire arms, criminals will pay no mind to the legislation. Legal narcotics are abused and trafficked every day.
7. These are just observations. I couldn’t care any less which way this goes 🙂
I agree with #7 completely…I also like #6 because it speaks directly to what happened with prohibition. Criminal gangs murdered each other in the streets for control of alcohol territory, much like drug cartels and street gangs do now. The harsh reality is that decriminalizing or legalizing these substances remove the power of the illegal organizations to profit from it, Budweiser isn’t planning a night time bombing of the Coors plant and nobody buys beer from an illegal cartel….
People will self destruct whether it’s legal or not, you can’t legislate individual morality but you can legislate behavior that affects others, as others point out driving under the influence is illegal those are the kinds of laws we should be pursuing and not wasting our time trying to figure out whether or not the neighbor is smoking a joint in his garage…law enforcement tends to disagree, but they use arguments similar to the ones used to argue against the repeal of prohibition.
At some point we need to do one of two things, fight a drug war to win it, which means invading the countries that bring drugs to the US and killing those responsible and destroying their facilities or acknowledging that Americans will look for ways to get high in numbers large enough to make murder and life in prison acceptable risks of doing business to supply that desire to get hit and plan a course of action that takes the murder out of the equation in much the same fashion we did for alcohol…and gets millions of people who are zero danger to the general population out of prison…the savings to the government in prison costs and police expenditures would more than cover the rising costs to veterans for health benefits…but that’s a conversation we are not ready to have in America, at least not ready to have without hyperbole from both view points.
“Spice” is not marijuana; however, compounds in it like JWH-018 have been used to study the cannabanoid receptors because their occupancy of those receptors is greater than cannabis’. We’re not entirely sure how and why cannabis works, though it is assumed that activation of the cannabanoid receptor (s) plays a role. So, while it may have been studied, we by no means know exactly why it works.
I’m not inherently opposed to the medical use of cannabis. But it seems to me that while there’s increasing evidence about a link to psychosis in susceptible individuals and while it remains a Schedule I drug (not that I necessarily agree with that classification) this needs to be an area in which we tread carefully.
There was/is such a thing as “medicinal alcohol” as well.
I’m pretty open-minded about using anything natural or man-made to help people get through physical pain, or mental issues.
Just like hydrocodene, ambien and other presription drugs there are going to be those slaw-jawed dopers that look for any reason to use it and get away with it.
Making it legal for medicinal or even recreational use isnt going to be the free pass to blaze it up like the pot freaks think it will be.
A lit joint in public should be treated like an open container. Likewise if you drive stoned you should get your DL yanked. You show up stoned to work, its no different then showing up drunk. You get tested for it, fired and walked out the door.
Well said. Under the influence means any “altering” substance, legal or not. There are, and should be, repercussions for using any of these outside your own time and/or when it can cause any sort of harm to someone else.