Veterans’ unemployment falls
Some of you may not have noticed, but the media is telling us that the unemployment rate for veterans is coming down. The folks at CNN/Time sent us a link to their article on the difficulties some veterans are facing in the world of civvies;
27-year-old Marcel Rowley, who went from being a combat infantryman in Afghanistan to a minimum-wage busboy in California. Rowley, who had been in firefights with insurgents in the Afghan mountains, had to compete against high school kids to get a restaurant job.
“It took a lot of self control,” Rowley said, recalling the times when he dealt with difficult customers. “I definitely had times when I wanted to rip people’s faces off.”
He realized his military experience meant nothing at home. He had gone to boot camp right after high school, and he said that in the eyes of employers it was almost as if he’d been frozen in time.
Rowley — who is now a full-time student on the GI Bill at South Lake Tahoe Community College in California — and many young vets like him never had a chance to build resumes in the civilian work force.
When I got out and went to college as a full-time student, I had three teenagers and a wife who depended on me, so I took a job as security guard for Pinkerton. The job allowed me to study on the job, a construction site that was generally closed during my night time hours. I also got a work/study job in the school’s VA office where I worked between my classes.
It was a long fall from being an infantry platoon sergeant, but you have to eat a lot of shit in order to get ahead. Yeah, there were people I wanted to choke everyday, they should be sending me thank you cards on their birthdays. But, I took a full load of classes through the summer just to graduate sooner and get away from that life.
I know there are some of you out there are looking for work, so I’ll post this link to the US Chamber of Commerce which is sponsoring more than 400 job fairs across the country just to get veterans matched up with jobs with their “Hiring Our Heroes” program.
Category: Veterans Issues
I take issue with the statement that military experience means nothing at home. I see a lot of people that have difficulty explaining their military experience in terms of what it brings to employers. However, most military expereiience provides vets with transferable skills. Having a counselor to work with was invaluable for me and others. There is work to be had and there are programs like work study that help as Jonn said.
#1: agree that working with a counselor to demilitarize one’s resume, and interviewing skills is a must.
I don’t buy the numbers though. CNN/Time lost their credibility long ago, and the recent expose’ showing their reporters to be willing, uncritical outlets of the DNC nails their coffins shut. The number could just reflect the number of Baby Boomer veterans who’ve passed on, or retired-retired to Social Security.
On a not completely unrelated note, if you have a skill-set that lends itself to being self-employed, the feds have set-aside programs for veteran and service-disabled veteran owned small businesses. (Yikes, I think I wore out my hyphen key.)
As a conservative I hate the idea of using tax money to pick winners and losers, but as long as the government is going to do it anyway I’d rather see the money going to people who’ve served the country and tend to get screwed out of the benefits they’ve earned.
http://www.sba.gov/content/veteran-service-disabled-veteran-owned
Well, Doc–this is one of the problems of having a country where less than 3 percent of adult working-age males have ever been in a military uniform, and even fewer of HR-types or hiring managers have served.
Tell someone from HR that you’re an 11B, and watch their eyes glaze over. Hell, I had some of the best technical training in or out of the military, and all that a lot of those mouth-breathers ever heard was “nuclear”, never once realizing that downstream of the main steam stops, there ain’t a shit bit of difference how the ‘trons get pushed out the generator and onto the grid.
It’s not just veterans who have a hard time articulating their experience, but prejudiced civilians who can’t/don’t want to understand just how even general military experience translates into a far better worker for their company that someone straight off the street.
There are also local programs and resources that do similar things. In my community the community runs a small business center and provides classes for people (veterans get priority) to start small businesses.
@2: More than just demilitarizing your resume, employment counselors can help you create a job search strategy and provide intel on the local job market.
Also, to be fair, I never saw the great attraction or smarts in limiting your job search to one particular location. Yeah, it’s nice to want to go back home, but at some point reality is going to gobsmack some people, particularly Mister Rowley. California’s unemployment rate is still over 11 percent, and still over 10 percent in the Lake Tahoe area. Why limit yourself to such a narrow set of opportunities?
Sparky’s right. I went home to Upstate NY after my retirement. Even though I was from the area, they treated me like a carpetbagger when it came to hiring, locals who’d never left the area were hired before me for every job even though I was more qualified. The last straw was when an employer wouldn’t hire me because I was “overqualified”, whatever that means.
So I moved to DC where there are more jobs than you can shake a stick at, if you don’t mind living in a shithole surrounded by shitheads. As soon as I had a chance to move my job to WV, I did.
If you read this blog, you already know that military service is outstanding experience and preparation for an employee. When the country doesn’t know that it is at war or who fights for them or to whom they should be grateful, we get the kind of crap mentioned above. That is one cost when the political leaders don’t emphasize the war. When the military needs money to be a competent force or maintain readiness and cannot get it, that is another cost. I know that a lot of you under-40 guys think us Vietnam-era guys don’t get it — I understand the problem I am just not smart enough to have a solution.
Mobility for employment is good. But it’s not an unconditional good.
I once moved cross-country to take a “better” job. Yes, the new job was good, and paid more. But I ended up absolutely loathing the new area. Taking that job was one of the worst mistakes of my life, if not the worst. It’s kinda difficult to be happy when looking out the window pisses you off.
Living in a location you like is worth a lot.
Yeah, well, Hondo, the Army sent me so many crappy places, that didn’t bother me anymore.
Very true, Hondo. But I also look at it this way–couldn’t get much worse that Commifornia. The traffic, the taxes, the cost of living, all combined to make me feel like shit at the end of the day.
I was born in CA, but raised in a lot of different places, moving so often even Army brats felt bad for me (sometimes 3-4 times in a year.) So while not putting down roots was an issue as a kid, I did also get to see a lot of places and get a lot of exposure I otherwise wouldn’t have had.
It’s one aspect to consider, but as you stated, not the only one, or even the most important one. However, if you need X years experience and can only get it with the company a couple of states away first, it’s certainly worth considering the possibility of sucking it up until you can get to a desirable geographic location.
I agree with the location issue to a point. Larger areas will have more opportunities and possibly at better pay. That said, there may be options in smaller communities. A lot of people under sell their military experience on resumes and application. Others don’t fully plan for life after college (I see a lot with degrees in recreation management for example.)
A lot of vets are not familiar with programs to help them Like work study, vocational rehab etc. This is where working with a professional can really help.
The issue is more complex than a blog comment can offer, resumes, location, transition programs, negative press, and civilians as hiring managers some of the many variables.
I agree on location, as long as moving is an option and the location is not unbearable. No way I was going back to my rusty ex-mill town in upstate NY. Stayed near my ETS location until the time was right, and then relocated to DC. Traffic sucks, it’s expensive, but unemployment is low and opportunities are available.
Still, it took a number of years to reach a similar level of responsibility as when I was serving.
I’m underemployed, myself right now. I’m working as a janitor and am one of two English speakers on the janitorial team. Minimum wage, just waiting for the VA to get off their asses when it comes to my disability rating. It sucks worse than a Victory Drive hooker.
But, I at least have a job (even though I am making everyone look bad because I clean too quickly and efficiently).
The best location is the one that keeps your creditors paid and happy. If you’re jobless, incomeless, and homeless, you have your pick of grates and shelters anywhere in the world!
I think the hard truth is that many profess to ‘support and love’ our troops, but only as lip service (especially in the employment sector).
Veterans are hardly immune to things that affect other civilians in the job force. Age discrimination, lack of a degree, related job skills, etc. etc.
My first job after getting out, with not quite a Bachelors degree in Computer Science, Associates in Business Management was working the parts counter at an auto parts store. From that I moved on to Ass’t Mgr at a Wal Mart oil lube center. All that meant was I got to work weekends. Through it all though I did one thing that everybody needs to do. While talking to customers I kept my ears open for an oppurtunity to use my education and skills. My “big break” actually came when one afternoon while browsing want ads I happened across a company looking for some IT folks. When I visited their website I noticed some problems and sent an email informing them. Shortly after that I got a response asking me to interview. The interviewer was former Air Force, who had brought his car in for an oil change and we chatted and the rest is history. Shortly thereafter I got a job with a Fortune 35 company and have been with them for almost 10 years.
Moral of the story: Do what it takes to provide for your family, never look down your nose at others, and always, always set a goal and pursue it. Your big break could be one aisle over at the grocery store.
On active duty I saw some real “wonderful” locations too, Jonn. But I always knew I’d be gone in at most a few years.
There’s a big difference when you ending in a place you can’t stand and you know it’s both self-inflicted and potentially permanent. Trust me on that.
Obviously, that should be “when you end up”. Got to quit over-editing comments I post here.
The Hiring for Heroes program is well-intended but I think it lacks substance. It’s bascially bribing companies to hire veterans. As an HR Director, the routine thing I’m seeing and hearing is not that companies don’t want to hire veterans, it’s trying to figure out and understand what they did in the military and how that translates to civilian skills for the job they are applying for. There needs to be more training out there being offered to veterans to help them develop a solid resume. I’ve seen several come across my desk in which I knew what they did because I’m prior military but if I were to pass it off to one of my non-military managers, they’d have no clue what they were looking at.
There also needs to be more outreach to small businesses. Why do the bigwigs always have to get the attention?
Okay, so why is incumbent on the veterans alone to figure out what needs to be said? HR types are supposed to be the “experts” in this kind of thing, so why don’t they even try to make a modest effort at outreach?
Sparky: It’s incumbent on the veteran because the veteran wants the job. HR reps don’t have time to figure out why candidates fit into the company.
Job seekers in general have to learn how to market themselves. Vets in particular have to take advantage of their strengths in the job search process.
@21…I’m not sure HR isn’t doing anything. There are plenty of job boards out there that are military specific that I can post openings too…the problem lies that most of those job boards are pandering to Fortune-type companies and technical jobs. The veteran’s job fairs I’ve seen advertised don’t happen near my location…ever. It’s not in our budget to be sending me off across the country when we don’t have as high a turnaround as larger entities do. These fairs need to be happening in more localized areas and again, stop pandering to the Fortune-type companies that are really only becoming more “proactive” to make themselves look good and to meet the criteria for federal Vet-100 reporting.
HM2 is right, in the job market, it’s really on the seeker’s shoulders to market themselves better and figure out what works and what doesn’t. If your resume doesn’t point out KSAs that align with the opening I’ve posted, that’s it.
Personally I would love to reach out to veterans on the side and help them with their resumes. I just can’t do it on the job; I don’t have the time to be calling every resume that got passed up and explaining why and what they could do better. In the meantime, my company is very military friendly and I am doing what I can to research working with local workforce development agencies near our offices to see what I can do to better reach out to vets.
Each state has Veterans Employment Representatives through their local job service. This is an important resource that is often overlooked. Resumes and Applications are not merely a catalog of skills or abilities, there is a fair amount of strategy involved.
@23 I’ve been wanting to reach out to businesses to volunteer time to help vets with resume review and interview skills. How would you recomend going about getting them to “buy in?”
Just a Grunt’s experience is probably what it boils down to.
Being a veteran in and of itself does not seem to automatically open doors in most cases. As others point out, if you don’t have the relevant educational or technical skills, then don’t expect a company to hire you based on your veterans status thinking that it is highly desirable (again, in and of itself).
The job market seems pretty bad so veterans are competing with others.
If it comes to that, take any job and go from there, while at the same time furthering your educational and technical skills. Always keep your resume up to date (I had mine’s done professionally).
@24, I might start with finding out who your local ESGR reps are and talk to them since they are always out and about working with the community to help employers have better working relationships with their military employees. Maybe see about contacting your local Workforce Development agency and see what local programs are in place and if you can offer your assistance there or start one. Contact local temp or recruiting agencies and see if you might be assistance there.
Good points all the way around here. I will say I haven’t had any luck at all with veterans outreach rep’s at any state unemployment or any private employment offices. They tend to offer lip service only, collect their guberment paycheck and play bobble head doll. And like Jonn, when I got out I went “home”…You couldn’t beg, borrow or steal a damn job as long as you were a veteran. There was too much lingering of taste from “Winter Soldier”, Smalter Dickite (Walter Cronkite)and several “Vietnam” movies that came out, “Platoon” being one of them.
Several years later, a small “crime wave” broke in town and originated from the local college. A man that was a veteran Marine and law enforcement, approached me with a job offer. He’d spent several months hunting for Army & Marine MP’s with a “V5” rate to hire in to the job. Not finding anyone, he approached me and the rest is “history” as its said…..Crime rate dropped quite a bit & some wanna-be punks earned their wings in crow bar hotel… That would be the brig for you Navy types…
I’ll echo Just a Grunt in #17, I experienced pretty much the same thing. Took a sales job in a supermarket bank, let them pay for college on top of GI Bill, spun that job into a traditional branch Manager, then jumped to higher ed. Quite a step down at first, but what the heck, it paid the bills.
Also, can’t underestimate networking. Veteran groups like American Legion and VFW try to do a lot for us in DC. Membership is a way to support that effort, volunteer for some community service, hang out with other vets…who may also be points of contact for job opportunities.
One thing about the CNN article though, I’m not sure of the wisdom of a veteran mentioning that he wanted to rip people’s faces off due to frustration and whatnot.
While I’m sure many of us have felt such frustrations with idiots and all, perhaps not the wisest thing to reveal to a media outlet, particularly since they lead off with the fact that he was a combat infantryman with tours overseas. You know the deal, CNN is leading off with an allusion to, what else, PTSD.
Last thing we need is for anyone to reinforce those stereotypes to the media and others.
Back in that period of time, Radar? The Legion nor VFW wanted squat to do with veterans, Nam or not…Part of why AmVets came about
@30, I recall the late 70’s through the 80’s when most of us didn’t qualify for either org…agree with your comment. Rather than an advertisement for the groups, my point was to find like minded folks and network. Everything helps when looking for work.
The veteran’s organization I had (and still have) the most philosophical problem with regarding eligibility “exclusions” is the DAV. They technically require active service during a defined period of hostilities as a condition of membership eligibility, or “combat-connected” (not merely service-connected) disability. In practice, that means if you don’t have an NSDM, a Purple Heart, or a “combat-connected” disability or disability discharge/retirement, you technically are not eligible. And only those with Dishonorable Discharges are excluded – an OTH discharge apparently is OK for DAV membership.
http://www.dav.org/membership/documents/ConstitutionBylaws.pdf , Section 11.2
This gives rise to some pretty absurd cases: a guy/gal who was inducted on 7 May 1975 and who ends up hurt after 3 days of basic training qualifies (Vietnam era service), but a guy who served 8+ years between, say, 1976 and 1984 and ends up with a bum knee due to a training accident in the field or at a training course doesn’t.
I never could understand that. I’d have thought the DAV – as their name implies – would be interested in helping ALL disabled veterans and consider them eligible.