9/11 – One Perspective
Last week, before my local drama, our commenter Doc Bailey and I were swapping emails, or talking on the phone, about this ‘n that. He mentioned a ‘discussion’ he’d had with a professor(?) about 9/11. I asked him to put it in writing. Although I admit to knowing about the historical aspect, I never did put it all together.
There IS a Ron Paul kinda thing involved in that it was all our fault, etc. The West did not embrace Islam… Just a mere 400 year time warp.
In Doc’s words:
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Americans are still trying to grasp what September 11th means. For some it is a sign of an evil conspiracy of truly vast and epic proportions to shock a nation, and indeed the world, and thus increase the power of the people who set out to do it. There are a lot of theories on this point as to the who, the why and the how. The “truther” movement has been thoroughly debunked, but this view persists.
Another view is that this was a random flailing of fanatics of a sub-sect of Islam. Thus the violence is random, and thus far more incomprehensible. Why would they attack us? Most Americans didn’t know (or care) that these yahoos in the middle of A-stan existed. al-Qaeda? What the hell is that? Even the name is poorly understood. “The base”? What the hell is that? that 19 men (most of the “muscle” with only rudimentary education) could catch our national apparatus so unaware shocked us to the very core.
There is a third option, that is poorly understood by Westerners. This was deliberate, well planned and everything about it had symbolism. Granted symbolism that most of us would not get. We get the two Airlines being used. United and American, no big surprise there, If there had been an Airline that had “states” somewhere in the title, you can bet that this would have been thrown in too. But why a Tuesday? Why September 11th? Why Hijack AND suicide attacks? In the past it was always one or the other. There would usually be some bold and grand statement of how we were evil, and they were carrying out Allah’s will for justice or something.
Indeed, we didn’t even know who did it to us till days later. Perhaps the most terrifying thing for Americans in the aftermath was the “who” and the “why”, how could we be at war when (to our understanding) we had done nothing to provoke this. At least with December 7th 1941, we could get the why, and the who. It pissed us off royally, but didn’t ever really scare us. September 11th did. You don’t need to be an expert in human nature to know that. If you look at CNN, and Fox News’ ratings for the days before and after 9/11 you’ll notice a huge uptick. “Regular Scheduled programing” seemed to disappear from peoples minds, as every new bit of information had to be absorbed recorded and marveled at, and while our reaction could certainly be fodder for hot debate, It’s the “why” I want to tackle.
We already know that this was planned months and even years in advance. Why September 11th? If you look at the figures of troop deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan you’ll notice almost every year an uptick during Ramadan. Why? well that’s the Holy month. You die then, in service to Allah and you got a b-line strait to heaven. Pass Go get 72 Virgins etc. But 9/11 wasn’t on Ramadan. Why not the 10th, or the 12th? Why September at all? New York weather is notorious in the winter, if it had not been a clear day they might’ve missed their targets entirely. Well it all has to do with a little known event in 1683. The Siege, or Battle of Vienna, which took place on September 11th and 12th of 1683.
Why is this so important? Because this is the absolute limit of advance into Europe of the Ottoman Empire. The gains in Spain by the moors had been soundly defeated and the rather disastrously so, almost 1000 years previously at the Battle of Tours, and after that Islam was slowly but surly purged from Western Europe. So the Ottomans were Islam’s last best hope of ending Christianity and bringing the world to heel under a global Caliphate. They had previously attempted to lay siege to Vienna in 1529, and failed rather miserably. This time they were caught flatfooted by Jan Sobieski and his Polish Calvary. The battle was long and bloody, and reflects the warrior spirit of the Poles and Germans. It als marked the beginning of the end of the Ottoman Empire. From this point on, Europe would push back, handing defeat after defeat against Islamic armies. They were pushed back all the way to Istanbul eventually. Though the Ottoman Empire remained a theocracy, it became far more secular after this.
So now that the history lesson is over, why should it matter to the West? Well for us it really doesn’t matter. Christianity gave up conversion through conquest with the third crusade (though a strong argument could be made for the Reformation and counter reformation). But Islam never really did. One of the major hallmarks of Islamic expansion was to take Shrines, churches, etc and make them Mosques. I’d invite you sometime to actually look at how Mosques are built then compare them to places like the Dome of the Rock or the Hagga Sophia. In essence once land is taken for Islam it is, and should always remain in Islamic hands. there’s actually Suras that say just that.
So why September 11th? In essence Osama was sending a message to the secular West, that Islam was going to expand, and that he was taking revenge for thwarting Islamic expansion. The problem is this message was totally missed by the West. Why? Because while interesting WE REALLY DON’T CARE WHAT HAPPENED 400 YEARS AGO! Nor do we believe that our theocracies should expand through conquest. So what does this mean in a larger context? We have already seen how even the most minor insult has been cause for extreme over reaction. How do you deal with a society that is prone to violence in extreme proportions? Well you can not deal with them on your own terms. These are not Nazis, or Soviets, you need to understand both the culture and religion, and make a case to all of Islam why they need to reform themselves. It is difficult to get most Americans to memorialize Dec 7th and that was only one (in some cases two) generations ago.
In the end the “Global War on Terror” will not be won until the Islamic world decides to reform itself. There will continue to be violence between Islam and the West until the West as a whole makes both a secular AND theocratic appeals to the Islamic world. In essence the Crusades ended 1000 years ago. The Battle of Vienna was a bunch of Christians defending their homeland, and lastly that while they can hold their heads high that they have not bowed down to the West, the cultural and technological differences have made it so that their lives are needlessly miserable. Once Baghdad and Alexandria were the centers of learning in the whole world. They could be again if the Islamic world stopped trying to fight battles that ended 400 years ago.
Category: Geezer Alert!
Well done.
you know I half expected OG to come on here and tell me I’m a bigot. . .
Well written, Doc. And to the Hot Place with OG.
Maybe she’s reading history to fact check you before she does, Doc? Very well done! One event you’ve overlooked or not aware of is the 1993 WTC bombing and the men that predicted what was to com, Rick Rescorla and Dan Hill.
http://rickrescorla.com/articles/stand-and-never-yield/
@4: well Street I was dealing more with the symbolism behind the day, But yes you’re Correct Rick Riscorla did indeed predict that a similar (if not in the specifics) incident would occur.
See in Islam, dates are everything, literally everything in Islam is symbolism (despite the rather ironic attempts by Mohamed to avoid that) decode the symbolism, and you’ll understand what it is they do and perhaps more importantly why. Only then can you effectively challenge “radical” Islam.
So if Islam is all about dates, and symbolism. Why would one overlook the aspect of the Mayan calendar that said this was to happen. Along with most of the world, symbolism and dates are everything. Why would they care about 400 years ago? I believe radical Islam is the same thing as having gangs out here. yes it may be different scale to scale. but there are less rules and more access to weapons. with a low education system, people will do anything for money. Most of these people give up before anything gets too crazy. i was there in 2004 and 2005. Gangs and mobs are just as evil.
Well Anon the Mayan Calendar means absolutely dick to Muslims. If you ever read one of their text books, its a lot of “and on this date Christians did this” they don’t teach recent history, like the 20th century except in how the West and the East were using the ME as a chess piece and killing lots of Muslims in the process (which is actually pretty accurate). The “golden age of Islam) ended almost 500 years ago, and yet its taught that a new one is just around the corner, and if the West would just stop getting in the way, there’s be no stopping them.
The problem with that thought process is it takes no responsibility for your own faults. Its rather like listening to a Democrat talk about their failed policies, its always someone else’s fault, never mind that I did didly squat to actually better the world myself. They are not taught to strive for personal achievement, only to redress old (VERY OLD) wrongs. How can any society hope to move forward when that is the primary lesson being taught to their children?
And on another tack — yes, it’s our fault for 9-11. Our fault for needing something that they had absolutely no use for (oil), our fault for paying our mega-dollars to them, our fault for trying to drag them from the 7th century to the present, out of the desert sands and into Western civilization.
Doc Bailey, just wanted to drop a comment saying great piece.
Well done, Doc.
The easiest way to understand Islam is the idea that “Islam is a culture based upon 14 centuries of tradition, unfettered by progress”.
Well done. New guest poster for TAH?
Concur Doc. Let CAIR and the rest of the apologists try to spin their way out of that.
Doc, I agree with that. I have had an earful of how the CIA and MI5 overthrew Mossadeq in Iran back in the 1950s by just spending a few dollars. Or how it was so easy to overthrow Allende after is one protector in the Military General Schneider was assassinated.
Ultimately whose fault is it if the Generals of a country are not working in the intrest of the people? If the Generals are corrupt the blame clearly lies with the Colonels. If the Colonels are corrupt the blame clearly lies with the Majors.
If the Majors are corrupt the blame clearly lies with the Captains. If the Captains are corrupt the blame clearly lies with the NCOs.
Of course the Generals are few and they can divide the Colonels by pitting the weak and corrupt against the mavericks. Then the Colonels can divide the Majors and so on. But should the fate of a nation depend of the fate of a few mavericks? If these mavericks are removed for cause their should be more than enough replacements to take their place. Of course this is only true when the Generals are hindering the will of the people and not carrying out the will of the people as they do in the USA.
In any NATO country no officer would step very far politcally out of line, at least before he retires, because he knows that he would be crushed and humiliated. No need to use a female pronoun when talking about such matter because, and let us be frank, everyone knows that women just do not have politcal ambitions. Hllary being the exception to the rule that proves that there is probably an exception to every rule,
Good job, Doc!
Yes, to defeat an adversary one really does need to understand the why’s and wherefore’s. Unfortunately, there is little will among our population to even recognize an enemy as one. The majority of folks seem to prefer to pretend that what they want is reality.
How can anyone look at a group of people who claim to hate us, promise to attack us, acquire the means to do so, then telegraph their intention to use them on us can act surprised when it happens? Then, instead of waking up to the reality, they continue to insist that what they want is reality.
Societal suicide?
I’ve got to quibble a little bit here, because dates and their symbolism is so important in Islam. History and its sense of continuity is very important in Islam, on that point we are agreed.
Where I’m quibbling is with the dates.
The siege of Vienna began on the 14th of July and ended on the 12th of September 1683. I have a hard time accepting that 11th of September as being significant, it was simply the day that the last of the Polish Cavalry arrived. The actual battle began at sunrise on the 12th of September.
But I can set that aside, because I’m not a military historian and because I can accept that it was already the 12th of September in Afghanistan…if you are applying the Islamic concept that the day begins at sun set and not sun rise.
That brings up the deeper issue. If you are accepting that the Islamic concept of time plays a role in the events of that tragic day.
September 11th 1683 was the 19th Day of Ramadan 1094. September 11th 2001 was 22nd Day of Jumada 1422 under the Islamic calendar a day that has little or no siginifance to the Islamic faith (well it didn’t until, it did).
Actually kind of surprised that a piece as “provocative” as this hasn’t gotten blasted by minions, usually by now there’s some troll along to tell me not only am I wrong, but how I’m a racist for thinking this way. . . What is hard for people to grasp, is that while there is a lot in “moderate” Islam that is commendable, and indeed desirable, how much is actually “moderate”? we take for granted that this is the few radicals, and yet for years there have been no shortage of fighters. Most of those Fighters, are almost routinely, slaughtered. Even their IED/ambush combo has proven disastrous. When the Army got serious about IEDs, they had to get very elaborate in how they would set them (having different teams do different jobs when emplacing) and even then they took a beating. If anyone remembers the VBIEDs at first they were voluntary, all that in the service of Allah types, but those recruits didn’t last very long. Eventually hey went to coercion, using family hostages to force the drivers to hit their target, then drugs, then they would literally handcuff the driver in, and have remote triggers because the reliable suicide bombers were (not surprisingly) all dead. Japan noticed the same things with the Kamikazes. The efficacy of such attacks fell dramatically as the war dragged on. All the effective pilots long since dead, by Okinawa it took 20 attempts to get one plane to hit a target, with the ratio steadily increasing (not that it wasn’t devastating when they did hit) Again and again we win battles, but we are slowly losing the war. Iraq was not what killed the “good will” among the people, nor was it seen wholly as a “crusade” as has often been intimated by Paulbots, we could have invaded Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and had the people giving up their virgin daughters, if we had realized we were in a Culture War and not just a secular or theocratic war. Much like with Communism, until we effectively challenge the pervasive culture of evil, we will be… Read more »