This post started with a photo.

| November 27, 2011

I remember the original video from the Victory at Sea series. I remember the reckless disregard that the ground crew Officer went to retrieve the pilot. Originally I was not able to find that video but I found this video. Also the song that is selected for the video is interesting to note. It goes by the name “A prayer for the Fleet”. I cannot find the lyrics for it on the net. What I have found out is that it is done by the US Navy Sea Chanter Chorus. But one thing that got me thinking because of the song is the part that starts at :37 and goes to 1:12.

The last crash landing is post World War Two. I knew that carrier crashes can and do happen but, you do not think of them being to that extent. The video at 2:15 is a violent reminder to the contrary. This leads me to my next topic. The disaster on the USS Forrestal.

The video and link cover most of the basic information of the fire so I will just skip to my thoughts. The first one is that it seems that in the process of trying to save money that it ended up costing them much more in lives, manpower and material. Something that sometimes gets forgotten in and out of the military community. Also I wonder what our resident Navy guy, Zero Ponsdorf thoughts are on the USS Forrestal and how it changed the Navy.

But the last part is the actions of Gerald Farrier who tried to prevent the bombs from exploding. He recklessly tried to protect his fellow shipmates without regards to his own safety. His actions reminded me of the actions of the original photo.

As I was writing this post, I was able to find the video related to the above photo. It starts at 5:36 if you want to skip the other videos.

It is amazing where a photo can take you.

Category: Link fest, Pointless blather, Real Soldiers

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Zero Ponsdorf

Dunno quite what I might add? John McCain was in one of the two Skyhawks that blew, BTW.

I was not operating with either the Forrestal or the Oriskany when they had their events.

The carrier flight deck, and carrier operations, have never been a safe work environment.

We did help search for a guy who went over the side during flight ops. Never found him.

And I witnessed a ‘dead-cat’ launch, but we did recover that aircrew.

Can’t say how the Forrestal conflagration might have changed the Navy. Fire is a major threat aboard ship. Back then everyone got some training. I went to several short schools myself, but never had call to use the training.

Worth noting, perhaps, is that when the USS Cole was attacked some of the casualties were caused by flammable and/or noxious materials rather than the explosion itself.

I never understood how there could be such emphasis of fire safety while ships had vinyl tile on the decks, and used flammable bedding?

Enigma 4 You

The Forrestal fire in many ways changed the way that The Damage control process was handled. My time in the Navy was changed by the Damage done to the USS Stark (FFG 31) when it was hit by an Iraq Exocet missile. The lessons learned from that attack changed ship construction, Uniform as well as the damage control process again. I have no doubt that the reviews and changes brought about by that attack and the new training that was implemented played no small part in the survival of the USS Cole.

We need to remember that the damage to the stark was very extensive not only to the ship but in Loss due to death and injury to the crew never the less the crew was able to make repairs to the ship that included extensive welding and even installing cables in several point on the ship to keep it from being further damaged. The crew was able to get the ship underway again without assistance and get it into port so that it could be be further repaired.

Im a proud Navy vet, my pride is not in myself but in the Navy and The US Military in General

Country Singer

Ahhh, the USS ForrestFire…yeah, it changed the Navy, with an incredible emphasis on damage control, and we watched that film in basic: it got hammered into our heads…every Marine may be a rifleman, but every Sailor is a Fire Fighter. It was a lesson that I already held, having been named after a friend of my father’s that died in a shipboard fire.

Doc Bailey

you know what’s crazy, when landing right up till the 60’s, an aircraft would cut their engine to idle while something like 20 feet over the deck, and then stall out and essentially “fall” on the arresting wires. Its actually no wonder so many accidents happened.

For me though it was “the Bridges at Toko-Ri” at the very end after the protagonist is confirmed killed the admiral who took a liking to him (because he was like the Admiral’s son who dies in WWII) has a moment of introspection.

he said: “where do we get such men? they leave this ship do their job, and they must find this speck lost somewhere in the sea, when they find it they have to land on its pitching deck. Where do we get such men?”

That about sums up Carrier Aviation I think

teddy996

Forrestal, as mentioned in the above posts, is the Msgt. Soup Sandwich of naval damage control. It is the difinitive example of what not to do during a fire on ship. The video is shown to every boot camp class during damage control training, to drive home just how serious things can get when your heads are up your asses.

You see, there were a few hose crews spraying water, some guys with CO2 bottles (that famous footage of the beserker chief running into the conflagration just before it explodes was one) and a few hose crews spraying AFFF- a foaming solution designed to blanket spilled fuel and quench fires.

A CO2 bottle is useless on a fire that big- you need to be 4-6 ft. away from the fire. Anyone you see in that vid carrying a CO2 bottle was a man that should have been manning a proper DC station, instead of throwing his life away. AFFF was the proper tool to use, and would have contained the fire swiftly- however, the guys spraying the water hoses washed the AFFF over the side just as fast as it was laid down, making the AFFF useless, and allowing the fire to get oxygen.

Zero Ponsdorf

Teddy #5: The video said the Chief had a Purple-K fire extinguisher. That will put out a magnesium fire! We were taught (if I remember correctly) that it was the next best thing to foam for other fire types.

I will agree with the balance of your comment. I thought there were fire crews on stand-by during flight ops?

NHSparky

Teddy…it was PKP. But even so it’s next to worthless more than 6′ away and the chance of reflash is very high. Yes we covered the Forrestal in boot as a what NOT to do. And by the time I got out, we had gone to variable nozzles and thermal imagers. Real helpful to see what you’re fighting. Makes me wonder why all folks on a carrier don’t get involved with fire. Might have made the one on the GW less severe.

2-17 AirCav

The video that Spormaster finally found shows an aircraft crash landing on a deck and coming to a stop in a teetering position half over the ship’s side as leaking fuel erupts into flame. Someone immediately rushes to the aircraft, climbs atop her and desperately tries to open the canopy to save the pilot. That is amazing stuff.

teddy996

@6- That’s right, it was PKP. Couldn’t see the vid at work due to the internet filter (no youtube), but I knew that guy would be on it. I went through boot camp in ’96, and haven’t seen that video since. It makes quite an impact.

PKP has a 4-6 ft. range as well. Not a great tool against a 30 ft. flame.

Standard procedure for a class D fire on deck is to jettison whatever it is overboard (a procedure probably developed in the wake of the Forrestal casualty).

teddy996

@7- If I recall the news reports correctly, that one on the GW was spread through the vent ducts. No one could see it, and compartments didn’t know they were on fire until it was too late. We were warned incessantly about vent duct fires for that very reason, and field days always included vent fan rooms. Apparently the ‘Dub’s training and field day regimen went downhill after I left in ’02.

2549

IIRC, the GW fire had less to do with what they didn’t do during field days than what they did do. They moved a shit ton of material out of the engineering spaces and stored it in other machinery spaces. Basically, an unauthorized haz and flam stowage area. I think the spark that started it was some dude jonesin’ for a smoke (also where it wasn’t supposed to have been done).

Enigma 4 You

PKP is next to useless, it will stop a fire momentarily but it almost always re flashes unless another agent is used in combination. Someone stated that PKP would put out magnesium is it will not, when Magnesium burn it makes its own 02, its for this reason that alloys containing it are used sparingly if at all on navel ships and aircraft.

I have seen the Forrestal film several times, the lack of leadership and training is the reason that the fire happened and expanded. One thing I learned in the navy was anything will burn given enough heat. Everyone always hated rehabbing a space, removing the paint to bare metal but almost no one realized the reason we did that was to limit the amount of flammable materials. Just imagine what 5 or six coats of paint will do when on fire.

My son who just enlisted got a chance to go on a ships tour, one of the things that jumped out at him was the amount of DC gear as well as fire fighting gear that was pre staged, when he asked me why my only response was because fire trucks dont float

OWB

Nothing to add here. The couple of guys I’ve known who served on the Forrestal simply did not want to discuss it much beyond, “It was horrible.”