Idle Question About Handguns?
Really, a freind is using my Kubota to offload logs so I can’t brushhog just now.
Unless you hunt with the thing (a laudable task) do you practice using feet or yards as a measurement?
This query was actually prompted by a discussion elsewhere, but I think it does matter so I’ll value yer input.
I practice with all of my handguns at ten or fifteen feet. To be sure, part of my rationale has to do with my geezer status, but it also has to do with tactics, I think.
Doesn’t really matter if we’re talking .22 short or .45 ACP… a hand sized group at 15 feet with either hand seems an effective aim?
YMMV
Category: Pointless blather
Yessir, as one old geezer to another, the majority (90%) of my handgun shooting is done between 15-20ft. A smaller percentage is done from 10yd to 25yd.
If I’m at the indoor range, I used to have the (former) wife run the target toward me from 25yd and I would empty the magazine. I don’t do that too often. The last time, the chain jumped the track with the target still out at about 15yds and I had to change to another lane.
Hand-sized groups will definitely be effective, smaller is good for the ego
Col Cooper sez you need to be both good and fast inside 21 feet. The “danger zone” goes beyond that, but at 21 feet you need to be in ready-to-fire position. I shot IDPA for years and they have some great training regimens.
#1 had to read “…I used to have the (former) wife run the target toward me from 25yd and I would empty the magazine” twice.
It’s one of ‘those’ days – thought for a moment you actually had her holding the target and running toward you.
Need much more coffee…
TD #1: I only have an outdoor range here, even if I’m just plinking off my porch. I have a 60 yard range with butts and all that, but if there is a scenario that requires me being able to hit anything farther than that even with a long gun I’m screwed anyway.
I practice at 7 yards and out. I’m really working on the 25 yard stuff these days. I have lots of improving to do at that range.
I’m not a geezer yet but saw something interesting at a Louis Awerbuck class. He had one of the students (a 50+ old retired trooper) take a shot at a water bottle at roughly 25 yards…without his spectacles. He was proving the point that it can be done as the body is a magnificent machine and can compensate rather well.
Well, here in the great white north, the standard distance for defensive handgun use, as taught in carry class is 15-21 feet. The thinking is that any more than that and you would have a tough time defending a longer distance as imminent danger to life in court. So, I always train at both 15 and 21 feet with handgun. I use combat point shooting techniques instead of target competition style since in most defensive shooting situations, you won’t have time to draw a proper bead (plus the fact that your heart rate and adrenaline overload will make aiming using sights almost impossible).
Just my 2 cents
What #6 says! Combat point n shoot!
#3 – Dave, I refuse to answer on grounds that it may incriminate me
#4 – Zero, I hear ya. If I wear my glasses, I can see the sights but not the target, if I don’t wear my glasses I can see the target but not the sights.
With a handgun I’m SOL outside of 25yds but under that I have good grouping and concentrate now on different techniques. I just joined a club with a 100m/yd (?) rifle range and look forward to taking my M4 out this weekend. Will probably zero at 25m and then familiarize at 50 & 100.
I agree, the zombies are going to have to get a lot closer nowadays.
TD #8: Here I’ve been thinking of something other than zombies. Thanks for the reminder, although I DO have a shotgun.
Yards. Only because that was the measurement I was taught with in the Marines; I’m not married to it or anything.
Measure the distances inside your house, as in the longest hallway, from where you sit in the living room to the front door, or from the dining table to the back door, from your bedroom door to front and back doors, etc. Most situations that will arise will probably arise inside those distances.
For outside, I agree, 15-20 feet is the range to practice at, for the reason OT stated.
I’ve shot 3 gun competition and 50 to 25 yd targets. Taught my wife to clear the house in the dark, but told her not to do that.
The target should be fuzzy in front of the front sight. Where the front sight is, that’s where the bullet is going. Sans jerking the trigger.
Practice with dry firing and dud(no primer/powder) rounds so you can see if you are tight on the front sight(target) and not jerking.
25 yards and 50 yards. Then you’ll see what kind of groups you get. Then work in tactical. Don’t hose rounds away.
Point and shoot 7-25 feet (UpNorth as it right) also constant practice with strong and weak hand. As an afterthought, years ago when I was an FTO at a large dept in So. Ca. I once told a rookie that in order to practice shooting at fleeing felons at the range he had to run backwards while shooting at the silhouette target…who knew he would actually try it and give a certain range officer a coronary.
“If I’m at the indoor range, I used to have the (former) wife run the target toward me from 25yd and I would empty the magazine.”
And you got a NEW wife after that? You must have some incredible powers of persuasion.
Remember, most people can cover 12-15ft, in one second, in a walk. Tried it tonight after reading this post. Imagine if they’re in a hurry. A guy, or girl, with a knife, 25 feet from you is a deadly threat.
And, I had a LT at the PD I worked at tell me, the younger they are, if they’re armed, the quicker you ought to be to shoot, kids don’t care, they can’t reason, and you’re just as dead if the guy with the knife or gun is 14 as you are if he’s 24 or 34.
I practice draw and double taps at 10-20 feet. If I got to the range I usually put 200 rounds don range doing that drill. For fun I might push the target out to 50 feet or even 100 to see how good I can hit. I can hit consistent with my Sig 228 (my carry) at 50 feet if I’m careful and aim. I’ll get a nice grouping no more than 4 inches in diameter.
UpNorth in #15: I agree with you that they are a threat at 25 feet with a knife, but it’s not me you would have to convince, it’s a jury that would be determining if they thought you were in imminent danger. That’s the problem right there and why the 15-21 (or you could fudge 25) foot rule comes in to play, from studying cases throughour the US and the outcome in court. As my instructor said; “the DA looks at it like this: If there’s blood, somebody’s going to jail” and a defensive shooting is only the first step in a long walk through the legal system.
20-50 feet for outdoor, 10-20 feet for indoor.
Anything outside that range, at that point IMO, the only thing a pistol is good for is getting to a rifle.
I like to practice @ 50′, combat stance, acquire & fire. Army son commented when we were last out on how quickly I’d do that. I just want a reliable group that’ll stop a threat, not necessarily all X’s, tho’ that’d be nice. If I can keep the groups small @ 50′ with a rapid acquire & fire, I feel better about a 20′ target.
With a long gun I go with a more precision shot placement mindset – one shot, one kill concept I guess.
And as we say around here, I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
OT, #17, No doubt at all, it’s shitty that we have to defend ourselves and family, with one eye over our shoulder looking at the attorneys/buzzards.
Before the laws at least came around somewhat on self-defense, that’s why you heard the admonition, make sure that when the law shows up, the guy is inside the house. At least Michigan has gotten somewhat smarter, you’re allowed to defend yourself if you’re somewhere you legally have a right to be. Case in point, guy in Grand Rapids at a gas station is approached by a guy intent on robbery, the guy pumping gas drops him where he stands. No charges, self defense.
UpNorth in #20, speaking of gas stations…
I used to set the latch on the pump and let the gas pump itself. But at the gas station I frequent, there have been a bunch of tweakers and panhandlers approaching me lately. I’ve learned they back away nicely if you pull the pump out of your gas tank and point it at them. I figure if the guy has a gun, he might think twice, lest he become his own personal bonfire.
Yep, and no way anyone can charge you, just say you’re putting the nozzle back in the pump. And, you may be giving the tweakers too much credit for believing they can think.
Yes, a hand sized group at that distance is effective aim, no doubt. But remember too that’s at a paper target (not shooting back or charging you with a knife), when you’re expecting a need to fire and therefore have your weapon already out, without the adreneline, etc.
The first FoF class I took maybe 6-7 years ago or so was a true eye opener: drills against charging singles with (training) knifes from concealment, drills again multiple assailants with (airsoft) firearms, etc. Even in that training environment the effects of adrenaline, semi-tunnel vision and others (I don’t ever recall seeing my sights for example-my brain/body began to point shoot naturally). Let me tell you, 21 feet disappears damned fast when someone is charging you and you’re fumbling your draw from concealment and aren’t moving!
There’s more and more training folks out there these days that are offering Force on Force training (with airsoft), and a few that offer point shooting with live weapons. Both I can’t recommend highly enough.