Defense Business Board: reduce retirement benefits
Hold on to your pension, military retirees, the Defense Department is coming for your checks as a way to cut expenses reports Stars & Stripes;
The 25-member group of civilian business leaders suggests that the Defense Department look at changing the current system, even hinting at raising the number of years troops must serve before being eligible for retirement pay.
The current system “encourages our military to leave at 20 years when they are most productive and experienced, and then pays them and their families and their survivors for another 40 years, committee chairman Arnold Punaro told board members at their quarterly meeting late last month.
So like I said years ago, somehow the only solutions the government ever comes up with to cut expenses are ways that they’d never let big business cut their expenses. Imagine what would happen to an automaker who discussed cutting union pensions. Or imagine the debate in Congress to cut their retirement benefits.
Military retirees know how jealous civilians are of our retirement benefits…which, by the way, we earned. We weren’t handed these benefits for showing up one day, like a lot of SSI recipients. We ate yards of shit for years, lived like no civilian would ever tolerate to get those benefits, and now every time there’s a Democrat administration, we have to keep fighting for the meager rewards we earned.
Of course, the real damage here would be retention. Who would want to work longer for less benefits like the Board suggests? They complain that the military loses experience at the 20-year mark. Who honestly thinks that the military would have higher retention with longer requirements for service towards retirement?
Category: Military issues
Indeed, in 5 years, I ate a lot of red clay shit and even had to be extracted from it. That 24/7 thing really rings true and the idiots running the asylum don’t care.
Retention will be a worry. And the ripple effect continues. WTF!!
“ The current system “encourages our military to leave at 20 years when they are most productive and experienced. ”
Yeah… Nothing like trying to charge up a hill with a whole squad of fifty year olds. And to do this they would need to slow promotions to a glacial pace or they would end up with whole Companies of CSMs. How would you like to be an E-1 for 5 or 6 years? That’ll convince a lot of folks to join the Military. (eye roll). Typical Cranialrectal inversion from our friends in Washington.
Hell, they didn’t give military retirees a pay raise this year because there was “no inflation”. Obviously, these morons don’t go out and do a lot of grocery or clothes shopping. If it weren’t for teaming up with my girlfriend, I’d probably be homeless. Even still, it’s not easy living when one has to subsist strictly off of a military retirement.
A little lesson in the rules of cause and effect: The guys you elected ten years ago, and their bankrupt ideas, tanked the global economy so hardworking people all over the country (and the world) have had to tighten their belts (if they’re lucky enough to still have a belt, much less a place to live). All sorts of pension and retirement plans have had to change their rules, workers who fulfilled their part of the bargain for years and decades are getting screwed, and now you guys are screaming “foul” because you have to take some of your own medicine! Go talk to some teachers, public employees, corporate employees, or just about anyone outside of the military to get an idea what’s going on out there.
One common thread among many people who post on this site is you’ve perfected the right-wing persecution complex – poor persecuted us! We’re so special the normal rules don’t apply to us! In this broken economy you helped to create, if you want retirement security go work for Goldman-Sachs.
Hey Joe,
You Sir, are an idiot. To compare these folks, who do some fine work, to the life of a military person is just plain dumb. the military works 24/7 get it. No teacher, public employee, or corporate employee is on the job 24/7. Not even our police or firemen. But since you want to compare these fine folks with our military personel, compare daily paychecks. NOT EVEN CLOSE! Teachers who make over $80,000 a year, with an obligation to work 6-7 hours a day, for nine months a year, can’t be fired once tenured, are not in the same league as the military. They get to go home at night, every night. Your statement about this supposed ” right-wing persecution complex” (hilarious by the way) is just plain idiodic. Broken economy the right helped create? Really? who, may I ask writes the checks for the government? let me tell you, Congress. Check out the figures from 2000 to now. Expenadures VASTLY increased in 2006. Now, what happened in 2006 you ask? the DEMOCRATS took over congress. I will let your feeble little brain take that in for a while. You might need to lie down to calm the dixxiness.
Put in perspective; this sort of fall-out will eventually effect those in the VA system as well. Specifically health care, but likely benefits and disability too.
Oh yeah… Joe, go suck eggs. Simply equating unions with military service shows a total lack of understanding that additionally belies whatever other gibberish you are spewing.
As difficult and dangerous as military service is, it is still part of the same system we are all part of. To set yourselves above it, as in both ponsdorf’s and squidgrunt’s postings is to deny financial reality. And don’t put down teachers please. They are always one of the first scapegoats in a climate like we are in now. I’d like to see some of you last 30 minutes in some of their classrooms….
Agree with you squidgrunt; Joe is an idiot. What many civilians fail to realize is that a retirement from the military is not enough to live on. When I retire from my second profession, my two retirements will be less than those with the department that started at a younger age and a higher salary than military pay.
Joe, Joe, Joe… Put down the bong before typing. You have the audacity to tell us that this proposal is necessitated by a failing economy caused by conservatives after the Democrats passed Trillions more in spending this year? Take another toke and try again.
Joe #7 said: To set yourselves above it, as in both ponsdorf’s and squidgrunt’s postings is to deny financial reality.
Not remotely true. I’ll set us apart, not above. That was YOUR evaluation not anyones here as I read it.
Done here.
Joe,
I have been a teacher. For 12 years I taught as varous levels. And I am not trying to put the military above anyone, they are just different. You brought the comparison, not me. Do not back away now. While there are true heros in the classroom, their job is very different from the military. Teachers are not the issue, the Teacher’s UNION is the problem. Why didn’t I read that in Milwaukee the UNION is trying to fight to have Viagra back in their med plan, fully paid for? What the hell!?!? how they get it up and for how long is not my wallet’s concern!!
This is just one simple example of the teacher’s UNION (the same union that is asking for taxpayer’s to bail out their pentions(due to mis-management and over-generous benefits)? I think not. the Job of teachers is to teach, the job of the military is to protect EVERYONE so that we can live our lives in safety and peace.
Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves mu good Sir. Look up the great Bill Whittle and read his Tribes essay. This is what I am talking about.
Ther are differences, not better or worse, just different. So the sacrifice of our military should be treated differently as well.
Man, is my typing bad. I apologize for the spelling errors. Feel free to mock. Yes, you too Joe.
Joe, some facts for you about teachers, firemen, police, and other government employees: 1. They can quit any time they choose, and do their specifically trained job elsewhere, soldiers cannot. 2. They can work for fifty years, and not once risk death from an IED, Sniper, or ambush. 3. None have been deployed multiple times, let alone once, in their careers, separating them from family for months, if not years, at a time. 4. The physical demands on teachers, firemen, police, and government employees generally don’t result in damaged knees, backs, shoulders, and necks, from years of carrying gear with equipment designed when our fathers were serving in Vietnam, and built by the lowest bidders. The professions you compare us to don’t live in conditions bordering on dangerous, just from exposure to the elements. They don’t subsist for months at a time on the same 12 meals. They don’t have hospitals chock full of teachers, firemen, police and government employees missing limbs, faces, eyes, and sometimes all of the above. 5. Don’t ever compare the bravery of a teacher in a classroom, any classroom, to the bravery of a soldier in a firefight, IED attack, or artillery barrage. Don’t even compare it to the bravery required to simply step out of the armored vehicle, knowing that the only thing between you and death is body armor made by the lowest bidder, a rifle made by the lowest bidder, and not functionally improved since 1969, and the outward appearance that you are in total control. Not even close to what is required to stand in front of the worst students you can imagine. And if they have an exceptionally hard day, they can’t take a personal day, beyond the two-week vacation during a year of days where your life is in danger 24-7-365. The more I write about the differences, the more pissed off I get about the differences between what we risk, and what we get in return, compared to our civilian “counterparts.” Before you try and make this political, based on party division and spending plans, maybe you should… Read more »
I can only add one thing to your very well written reply, Chuck, and that is what squidgrunt said about congress and other gummint workers, who risk life and limb getting to the box of donuts for the last jelly bismark and their retirement bennies, and maybe the board should have suggested cutting theirs before going to the low hanging fruit that they always go for, which is the military and Vets.
Yeah, I’ve always thought soldiers were underpaid. Nothing is worse for moral than being in Iraq and hearing about how the (now former) Sec. of the Army says “Service is its own reward” when comparing the huge difference in military and contracter pay. Oh, or better yet, how analysts are saying soldiers are paid too much because they make more than other jobs right out of high school (McDonalds?).
“Oh, but the great benefits!” is a common cry as well. Damn, I’d rather have received more money than have to rely on Army medical and now the GI-Bill and VA healthcare. I do think government employees have to many entitlements and benefits, but considering the 900-something a month I made when I first enlisted to have the lowest standard of living I ever experienced, the worst medical care (socialism at its finest), and then going off to war… not worth it. Troops (at least enlisted ^_^) need huge pay raises as is. (Somehow a Captain who retire makes a lot more than a CSM.)
900 a month!?!? You elitist!!! I’m almost embarrassed to say what it was when I was a private E-nothing ($450 after the Reagan increase)
Chuck, you are somewhat wrong the police and dealing with snipers and ambushes. I went into Law Enforcement after retirng as a Gunny in 1999. A number of my friends have been shot in the line of duty, although luckily they have survived. Many others have been seriously injured in the line of duty to the point of being medically retired. Many fireman have also been killed or badly injured in the line of duty. Of course most officers and firemen release that during wartime military service is more dangerous, but then a good portion of us have served in the military even in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Typed that kind of fast and should have checked for grammar. Release should be realize.
People just don’t get that 24/7 thing, do they?
Remember, Joe- You sign a contract and that’s it. Period. So unless you are a complete fuck-up, you’re in it, all day, all night and then some until your separation date.
Lessseee, here…an e-4 with 4 years in…30 days pay is 1936.00 US dollars today. That amounts to 43 dollars a day. 24/7 Uncle can call you to work, starve you, or whatever is deemed necessary.
Do teachers have to do that? Nah. How about a fireman? Not usually, unless there is a mass cal or some huge fire. How about the police…nope, not them either. They rarely have to miss a meal, their beds, the kids, the wife.
GO away, Joe. You have no respect for the troops and Bush is not president anymore. As others noted, you are not exactly the sharpest tool, but you are indeed a tool.
OldTrooper: I see the term “Old” is rather suiting… But just because things were worse doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be better.
Hey Joe, Why don’t you wander on over to the Denver Post and check out the picture of the little boy receiving the Flag at his Daddy’s memorial service, and when you finish up there check out David Bellavia’s place scroll down to PRICE OF FREEDOM DAILY REMINDER. Then come on back and give that little lesson in cause and effect again.
So…Joe? Calling in artillery and close air support on you and your camel. Get low in your foxholes!
4, 3, 2, 1….
BOHICA! This is from folk who think you can reduce healthcare costs by having nationalized care and simply cutting its budget. They hate the military anyway, so why not?
Oh, “civilian business leaders”… you mean the selfish f*cks who whine about pay and benefits, think working more than 40 hours in an airconditioned office is “hard” and (in this day and age) never wore a uniform because that was “someone else’s job” not good enough for them to do? F*ck ’em.
Combat Vets to pay higher premiums.
F-22’s cut.
Troop numbers to be cut (Frank).
DoD Budget to fund environmentalism.
Retirements to be extended to 40 years.
Troops don’t need .5% pay raise (Webb).
Females on subs/smoking out.
The Military is to some nothing more than a social experiment, when not a medical lab. Hidden Transparency is killing National Defense. Sometimes I wonder why I was willing to risk life and limb to defend the ungrateful.
Hey Joey boy, I worked at a PD for 27 years. For 25 of those 27 years, our city refused to make their contribution to our pension fund. WE made our contribution, they didn’t. So, now they’re crying because, under Michigan law, they have to make up the difference in their non-contribution then, and what they owe now. To the tune of MILLIONS of dollars.
And, for all that is holy, stop blaming Bush, which is what you’re doing, Owebowma and the dems are in control, they’ve owned congress since 2006, and they’ve FUBAR’d this beyond belief. Put down the keyboard and step back, cuz you’ll certainly get hurt if you don’t, if only mentally.
Joe–had you spent ONE DAY of your miserable fucking life in uniform, you would immediately realize what horseshit you were uttering.
Reading the article, do these clowns really think not letting a retiree draw any actual benefits until they turn 57 is the way to improve retention?
I won’t go off on a rant about big corporations or welfare queens but, I have to ask, why is the military-and especially retired military-the one place where we can always cut spending?
financial reality = hey, we just borrowed money from your kids to pay off our political base = we want to screw the military anyways and now we have an excuse.
Remember in November (if they’ll count your vote)! They love SPC Manning more than you, don’t forget.
There are more civilian federal government employees than there are military. Those federal government civilian employees make more than twice as much, at every pay grade, as military folks do.
Why aren’t THEY being asked to take a cut in pay and benefits? Oh yeah: unions. Fuck them all.
Why did they think the current retirement system was set up in the first place. Maybe for enlistment and retention and an effective force. Civilian business leaders, if they wanted to wreck the US Military that would do it.
Oldtrooper (#16) how’s ‘bot 330/month before tax ect….. (the carter years)
$133.00 and change per month. Not much less than what I get in retired pay now after SBP, taxes etc. I think I make to much and should probably give some back to Uncle Sugar so he can spread the wealth around to those less fortunate than I.
[…] the military may not be able to help eveyone. Those in power are working to balance the budget on our backs. They see our benefits as “too generous.” despite needing our bases to employ people in […]
Hey Joe, you verminous piece of filth, why don’t you step away from the keyboard and let your betters (note I didn’t say all civilians’ betters, just yours) have a discussion in peace.
Rich
USA 84′ – ’93
Eric (#33); yeah, I stated what it was AFTER the pay raise went in to effect.
Paul (#20); you’re right, they should be better and I agree totally. I should have put the sarcasm warning up when I said you were an elitist making $900 as a E-1
I was a lucky SOB then, making $695 a month. But then again, I did come in as an E-3. Had I come in as an E-1, it would have been $596/month.
Under Bush we got some of the best pay raises our military has known. I joined less than nine years ago and made $964. The Privates I put in the Army now make over $1300, but with today’s long Delayed Entry Program waits many ship off as E-3s making $1705. An E-6 with eight years now makes more than an E-7 with 24 or an E-8 with 18 did nine years ago.
As for retirement, we deserve everything we get and more. Unlike civilian government workers we don’t get any contributions matched for our Thrift Savings Plan, and it has already been mentioned that the toll twenty years can take on some of us is hardly worth what we get now.
[…] other day I wrote about the Defense Business Board which recommended slashing military retiree benefits. Ranger Off-Spring (ROS) sent us a link on […]
Dear Joe,
Where were you when my brothers in arm were getting their asses shot off in Vietnam? Oh, I know, Canada!
E2 in 1959= $89.00/Mo. When inflation is counted for, it hasn’t changed at all.
The Defense Business Board isn’t as smart as they think they are. When looking at military retirement expenditures from 1972 to 2010 they failed to account for inflation. $1 in 1972 is equal to $5.33 in 2011. Thus, the approximately $4B spent in 1972 actually grew to approximately $9.4B in 2011 when using constant 1972 dollars; not the $50B touted in their graph. I’d say that’s a pretty good bargain for an all volunteer force built in the aftermath of the Vietnam War whose members have fought two major and many minor wars in the past 20 years. Wait until next year. After the dollar collapses on the world market the 2012 retirement outlay will be $100B or more.
With all due respect to my fellow veterans, I’m going to have to insist we don’t put firemen and police officers in the same category as teachers when it comes to looking at the fairness of salaries. My brother is inner city Rochester PD and I’ve taken calls from him at all hours of the day and night, asking questions about injuries hes sustained chasing down less than law abiding citizens. And then theres the worrying that some perp you put away is looking to pop a cap in your wife, or in my case, your sister for retribution. Half the time I go home on leave, hes getting calls from other cops or responding to some last minute disaster. A fair number of the guys on the force are reservist USMC, USA and USN (many with deployment histories) as well. I’m not saying that I’m buying Joe’s argument because I’m living the 24/7 dream myself. I’m just saying that we do those that protect our homes while we are away overseas definding the country a disservice if we don’t err on the side as embracing them as brethern.