A privacy issue
A reader emailed me about the following situation;
Hello, I don’t know who else to ask. My 70 year old mother shops at the base commissary at Luke AFB in Arizona. They have posted the signs saying no more cigarettes and booze after Jan 1, 2010. She was REQUIRED to give the cashier her SOCIAL SECURITY number before they would let her purchase a carton of cigs today. When she asked why they told her that the “government” wants to keep track of who is buying cigarettes at the commissary. What an invasion of privacy! Who do I tell? My Dad is probably turning flips over at the Veterans’ Cemetery. I am glad he is not here to see what is happening to our beloved country. Mom said she is really worried about being on a “government black list” of smokers. With the recent email addresses being spammed out of the White House, I feel this is just one more invasion that needs to be brought to light. Any contacts or advice you may offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, I look forward to your reply.
Well, I’m stymied. With the vast knowledge base we have among our readers, what would you tell this fellow reader?
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Military issues
I call absolute bullshit and would ask to see the store manager and the AR commanding such crap. I’m going digging.
Not knowing the circumstances of the email, what are the chances the email itself is BS? It reads a lot like something you see on Snopes.
The person who sent it is a regular reader and used our contact form which is pretty spam proof. Believe me, I know spam.
I’d be concerned about a wayward employee looking for a little ID theft on a little old lady. I can’t speak to the Air Force, but I don’t recall the Army selling cigs or booze at our Post commissary, you had to go to the class 6 for booze and any shoppette (or the PX) had smokes…..it sure sounds fishy.
Cigs have always been for sale at the Army commissaries. At least since 1987. Might be before your time with Washington. The powers that be proposed a program of selling beer/wine at the commissary last yr. Not sure if it got anywhere beyond a test stage.
The SSN request sounds questionable. Especially since the military is going to ID-theft resistant ID cards that do not have the full SSN posted.
At the moment, best info I can find says absolutely nothing other than it is stamped as a tax-free item and people are complaining about prices. There are regs out there pertaining to states, but nothing requiring the SS to be used.
One thing I did read was that as a federally funded entity, AAFES is supposed to provide statistical data in regard to purchasing etc…SS number being irrelevant in my train of thought.
I would contact the Commissary and ask:
Where was the Privacy Act Statement? The Govt does nothing involving those 9 numbers without a Privacy Act Statement.
The ONLY thing I can think of is the commissary trying to make sure that someone is not coming in daily and buying 10 cartons or fifths (which are both exempt from state taxes) and reselling them.
Slightly off topic, but can we all agree that the “White House spam” story is BS? The blog posts and so on at Whitehouse.gov contain a “share” feature that allows a reader to email the post to a friend (as do many blogs, newspapers, etc.). If a person gets these emails from the White House, it’s not because he’s being targeted by the government for an invasion of privacy, but rather because a friend (one assumes) thinks he would find the story interesting. Or maybe an enemy thinks it will piss you off. Either way, no government conspiracy is at work.
The last time I bought cigarettes at the PX I had no trouble. But it was a single pack not a cartoon. ( I have not gotten one of those since I left Iraq)
I agree that it smells of an ID theft scam. SSNs from seniors (who are generally less vigilant about monitoring their credit reports for signs of ID theft) are prime candidates for building false documents. Your mother should contact all three credit reporting agencies, and put a “fraud alert” on her files. Clark Howard’s website has more information about that, and they have a call center that you, or your mother, can contact to get personal advice.
Better yet, your mother should consider “freezing” her credit. It can be “unfrozen” if it needs to be for legitimate reasons, but it stops most credit fraud before it starts:
http://clarkhoward.com/topics/credit_freeze_states.html
Of course, credit fraud is only _one_ reason why someone would use a stolen SSN. If you read on Clark Howard’s site, there are reports that people are using stolen SSNs to file fake tax returns, with false refunds. The thieves get a refund, and when you file your true return, you get a nasty message from the IRS stating that you can’t file twice.
Can’t speak to Luke, but at Nellis AFB a few days ago no issue at all buying cigs.
You never know, it could be a pilot program of some sort…. I would call the base right now. Get someone to answer the question, or light a fire under someone that can.
LUKE AIR FORCE BASE OPERATOR:
(623) 856-1110
Matt,
I was in from 88-91….my memory is probably a little fuzzy…..sitting in the hull of a tank for 3-1/2 years might have something to do with that!
The commisary asks for your birth date because they have to punch it into the register. Most cashiers just punch some numbers in because it’s obvious when most people are over 18. They do not collect your SSN unless Luke has some kind of special survey. That still does not make it right and I would take it up the chain. They have no business taking anyones SSN unless it’s for official business. A carton of smokes doesn’t qualify.
Yeah, I definitely believe it. Being a smoker now is akin to being a criminal. A few things below.
1) Have you seen the new Fire Safe Cigarettes (FSC)? Look on your pack by the UPC code. Supposedly NY implemented these required type in 2004 with the blessing of the NFPA and many other .orgs. 17 states have not only implemented FSC type cigarettes, but have also highly increased the taxes for the State Children Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). And the “Childrens” part of the legislation includes persons up to 30 years old. It’s a GD scam and it pisses me off to no end.The cigarettes do not stay lit unless you drag constantly. The NFPA uses unfounded studies from 1992 and no recent data to prove there were no harmfull effects in the newly created paper used. Total BS and an invasion of my privacy.
2)Many of the original cigarette manufacturers websites ( http://www.kool.com )now redirect someone to https://kool.tobaccopleasure.com/modules/security/Login.aspx?brand=KOO . I recently tried to find out information on why Kool quit making my Kool Light brand. Entry requirements for accessing the website is harder than finding Obama’s original birth certificate. Besides that, one can not advance through the multiple pages of required personal information without having to state that you buy other brands and types of tobacco also. To me I think it’s a CYA on the manufacturers part.
3) Makes me somewhat paranoind that when the Healthcare Nazis determine if and when someone gets care that the smokers list will be consulted to determine what punishment or if any care at all will be given.
Also on the website:
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company only markets its tobacco products to legal age tobacco consumers. In order to be
eligible to receive mailings from us, you must certify that you are a legal age tobacco consumer and want information
and promotions concerning our products. We will also verify that you are of legal age to use tobacco products.
Site Requirements · Age Filtering Software · User Agreement · Protecting Your Privacy
RJRT · Camel.com · Camel Snus.com · Camel Dissolvables.com · NoCigTax.com
First, she needs call the Social Security Administration and let them know. Second, she needs to call JAG at Luke AFB. This may be a scam being operated by employees at the BX rather than a “government” program.
Oddly, tonight I was talking to the father of a Marine who stated to me that according to his son, his unit was denied tobacco products when he was in Iraq. I told the father that I absolutely could not believe that, unless there was some uptight, self-righteous Company or Battalion CO that issued that edict. I further stated that there was NO WAY that was military policy. Damn, was I wrong???
just got out of Iraq and I had no problems buying smokes at any px. I was stationed in sal sinjar (Sp?) up north, COP Hit until we broke it down, and then at Al Asad until very recently. Done more than 8 years with the Marines and never had any problems buying cigs. I would have asked to see a supervisor on the spot if I were her.
My WAG is that if it’s not an ID theft scam (could be medical ID theft too) it is happening under the guise of tax enforcement.
It’s a little odd that it would happen at Luke, and not closer to massive-tobacco tax states with huge black markets like NYFC and the like. Even states without income taxes get information back from the fed IRS to help figure out when sales and use taxes aren’t being paid (This is primarily small business oriented, as most of the data is SSNs and not corporate tax IDs).
The Privacy Act of 74 has a nice, large hole through it that consists of four words: “for law enforcement purposes.” This has been shown repeatedly to not be limited to criminal enforcement purposes. Remember this, it’s worse than you think at the state/local guv level. You know those prescription drug databases? Yeah, they’re not just keeping records of people getting bottles of OxyFunStuff, but every time you get birth control or Motrin via scrip, it’s recorded. For law enforcement purposes.
Jmarsh,
Cigarette sales on a military base are irrelevant to tax enforcement. I can think of no legal reason as to why they would ask for a SSN to purchase smokes. Perhaps they wanted a birth date and she heard wrong. I don’t know and I wasn’t there. But it definately needs to be reported so she can get to the bottom of this.
I’ve been buying smokes at AFB’s for most of my life and have never had that happen for that reason alone. If writing a check, they will ask for it so they can type it in and see if you bounced one in the past but it is no longer written on the check. That has nothing to do with the puchase of smokes, though.
Bill, they’re irrelevant to tax enforcement right up until NYC starts thinking that Ft. Drum may be a “supply” point for black market cigarettes into the city. Or if the state thinks that people are buying tax-free on base and exceeding the limit that people are permitted under state law to enter the state with without paying for tax stamps for things not for “personal use.”
Just like at duty free, you get things tax free under certain conditions. States are scrubbing under the woodwork to find revenue anywhere.
Jmarsh,
Here in Mich, we have one of the, if not the strictest state laws in effect with regard to blackmarketing tobacco. We are not even allowed to bring a full carton in from another state. I buy mine at Selfridge ANG Base. There isn’t even a
MI tax stamp on the smokes. There is another reason for what happened to the lady in Arizona, I just don’t know what it is yet.
Just a possibility, but did Granny pay with a check? Our Navy Exchange requires a SSN for check cashing, tho they usually just get it off your ID card. Did she forget to bring her ID with her check book? Did they forget to input the no. before returning it to her and asked for the info afterward? IMO, more important is why no cigs/booze after 1/10?
Hello, I wanted to say “Thank you” to all of you who have taken the time to write a response to my email. Also to update you on my progress in finding an answer to WHY my Mom was REQUIRED to have her Social Security number recorded in order to purchase (1) carton of cigarettes at the Luke AFB Commissary. First to clarify a couple of things written. She made her purchase at the Commissary. There is a single check out lane there to buy cigarettes. She buys her cigarettes first before getting her groceries. She pays with her debit card. She shows her military ID card as usual, then the cashier turns her card over and asked her “what is your SS number”. NOT as usual. After some back and forth, my Mother was told in order to purchase her cigarettes she was now REQUIRED to provide and verify her SS # and that the “government” was making a list of who is buying cigarettes . Mom gives her number and the cashier ENTERS it thru the cash register into some database, somewhere.
I took Grover’s advice and called Luke AFB speak with someone, anyone, who might be able to explain why this is happening. To date my calls/messages have not been returned. I will try again tomorrow. I have several concerns regarding this incident. I too am worried about identity theft and insurance fraud. But what is most upseting to me is not knowing HOW her information will be used and by WHO and what FOR? Is it even legal to collect a “list of Social Security numbers of smokers?”
Thank you all once again for taking the time to comment on my email. Army Brat
Army Brat: I’m not a lawyer but I can’t see how that would be legal. The use of a SSN is being minimized as much as possible by the DOD although it is still being used as a service number and for cashing checks as noted by myself and others. It is not to be used for tracking whatever it is they are tracking. It seems Luke AFB is doing a few things other bases are not. Perhaps it is the command (AETC)they are under or maybe they just had a power hungry base general, I don’t know. No other base is doing away with cigarette sales to my knowledge. That said, if they won’t reply, go up the chain until you get an answer. They have no business tracking anyone buying smokes other than to be sure that person is over 18. I was stationed there in the 80’s but it seems things sure have changed.
Army Brat,
One last thing. Call them again and tell them you have been waiting x amount of time for a response. Let them know that they have a certain amount more time to give you an answer and after that you will go to the Arizona Republic and tell them your story. That should get a response. They don’t want to look bad to the press.
Most likely an electronically rations card. Maybe they are getting rid of those POS paper rations cards. In Europe You are allotted a certain about of Coffee, cigs, and qualifying alcohol.