What do you suppose will be next?
I have no affection for the Confederate battle flag and I understand that it means different things to different people. I also do not think it is a good idea for it fly over the grounds of a state government, but I also firmly believe if it does, it is the state’s business. Not mine and most certainly not the business of the federal government. Like it or not, that emblem is part of the history of this nation. Do we want to wipe away our history, most especially the ugly parts of it? Wipe away a time that split not only our country, but families too? Bury the history of the time that divided us to the point that we took up arms and started killing one another? Should not an informed citizenry want to understand all of the events that led up to that conflict so as to not repeat it? All of the reasons and events that led up to that deadly split? Certainly we would not want to bury or mischaracterize any history surrounding an important event in the life of our nation. Would we?
So let us not stop with a flag. Let us dig up long buried remains and move them somewhere – anywhere. A landfill maybe? We must tear down statues, rename schools, rename roads, rename all of those U.S. Army Bases now named for Confederate Generals…. And, if we pursue this logic to the very end, what else can we expunge from our history?
“History can be well written only in a free country.” Voltaire, May 27, 1773
From the blizzard of 1977 until July 1980, I was assigned to the ROTC Instructor Group, Gannon University, Erie, Pennsylvania. The local expression is that there are only two seasons in Erie. Winter and the 4th of July. That is fairly accurate. Considering on the July day my family and I got in the car and headed south, the temperature barely broke 50 degrees. Not to worry, it was 104 the day we arrived at Fort McClellan, Alabama. It was my first encounter with a heat mirage rising from the asphalt. But, back to Gannon. At one time in its history, ROTC was compulsory for all freshmen attending Gannon. A story was related to me by some of the long time staff concerning the Vietnam years when there was a push to ban the ROTC from Gannon the same was there was at other schools. Its proper name was the Department of Military Science. As the story was told to me, it actually came to a heated meeting of faculty and was prepared for a vote. The Monsignor, I was told, made his speech and ended it with a question. After we remove the Department of Military Science, which department do we remove next?
After we have wiped any reminders of the Confederacy from our history, what do you suppose will be next? What other disagreeable and offensive symbols must be removed from our sight along with their history.
I do not know if we are already traveling down the road of forgotten history or worse yet we are remembering a history that is racked with inaccuracies and exclusions. We must return to our beginning and revisit the missteps, otherwise we will repeat them. That is what we do.
©2015 J. D. Pendry American Journal All Rights Reserved
Category: Politics
Prescient, indeed.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984
The confederate flag may be the only flag we have left after obama gets throught “shyting” on the American flag!!
“After we have wiped any reminders of the Confederacy from our history, what do you suppose will be next? What other disagreeable and offensive symbols must be removed from our sight along with their history.”
So whose history should we remove? And what history shall it be replaced with?
Should we elevate the facts showing blacks as slaveholders? Or their part in the genocide of the American Indians?
The Germans have tried for 60 years to hide their Nazi past. Ask them how that’s working out for them.
How have the countries of Liberia and Haiti turned out? Both of these countries were formed by freed slaves. There’s some history most people don’t know.
Where does this shit end?
Exactly. Ban the 4th of July as it celebrates a document signed by rascist slave owners. Ban the US Constitution for the same reasons and that troublesome “3/5 a man”. Ban the Stars and Stripes because it represents all of the above. Ban the Bowie knife because James Bowie was a slave trader. Etc., etc. It has no end. It will solve nothing.
“Should we elevate the facts showing blacks as slaveholders? Or their part in the genocide of the American Indians?”
“But he did it too, therefore it’s ok!” The mental gymnastics you revisionists go through to make the confederacy seem less shitty, baffle me all the time. Just because there were a few shitty black people back then, it does not legitimize the South’s claim to hold other human beings as slaves and treat them as property.
“The Germans have tried for 60 years to hide their Nazi past. Ask them how that’s working out for them.”
Stop. You either don’t know what you are talking about or you’re lying. In neither case should you be talking about this subject. I have no idea why this rumor of covering up the past keeps persisting, but it’s just flat out wrong. Germans do not hide their past, but actually take full responsibility for it. If you want to, you can visit the holocaust memorial in Berlin or one of the concentration camps around the country and learn about history. And unlike our history with the japanese concentration camps, their schools actually acknowledge what happened and don’t try to shirk responsibility for it. But what they don’t do is keep venerating the symbols of the Nazis. And yes, there is a difference between clinging to symbols of past atrocities and sweeping them under the rug. That aside, what were you alluding to? How is this supposedly not working out for the Germans?
“How have the countries of Liberia and Haiti turned out? Both of these countries were formed by freed slaves.”
And what is your point? Does this justify the confederacy?
Liberia was created for slaves from the US so they could return to Africa..trouble is, not enough wanted to return, they would rather riot here and get the dumocrat free handouts imho!
It’s more important to remember the unpleasant portions of history than the enjoyable portions. Schools should be teaching the good and bad parts. Don’t want the little tikes repeating our fuckups
Here we go…..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia
See. All better now.
As a native American who has no American Indian ancestors, I’m grateful to, and proud of, my forefathers who served in both of the American Revolutionary Wars for Independence, or Wars of Secession, first in 1775, and later in 1861.
In 1776, thirteen colonies legally seceded from the established government, which promptly accused them of treason, created a new nation, hoisted their rebel banner (i.e., the “Stars and Stripes”), and successfully fought against the invading army.
In 1861, eleven states legally seceded from the established government, which promptly accused them of treason, created a new nation, hoisted their rebel banner (i.e., the “Stars and Bars”), and fought against the invading army, but without success.
On my father’s side of the family, John Mallernee of Baltimore, Maryland served in the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War for Independence.
On my mother’s side of the family, Uriah Hawkins of Rhode Island served in the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War for Independence.
My biological paternal ancestor was Corporal Jonathan Trueblood, North Carolina Seventh Regiment, Confederate Senior Reserve (he was an elderly farmer who was conscripted to guard Union prisoners of war) served during the War for Southern Independence, i.e., the War of Northern Aggression, i.e., the War of Secession, i.e., “the Late Unpleasantness”.
Corporal Jonathan Trueblood’s unit was in the last major engagement of the war, the battle of Bentonville, North Carolina, and Corporal Jonathan Trueblood was listed as present when General Joseph Eggleston Johnston surrendered to General William Tecumseh Sherman.
Corporal Jonathan Trueblood’s son, William, who is also my ancestor, went to Indiana and served in the Union Army.
As a veteran of the war in the old Republic of Viet Nam, I particularly enjoy pointing out how history has repeated itself.
In the Eighteen Sixties, the North invaded the South, my ancestor fought for the South, and the South lost the war.
In the Nineteen Sixties, the North invaded the South, I fought for the South, and the South lost the war.
Nifty, huh?
Similarly, I also get a kick out of bragging to unsuspecting souls that I am a convicted war criminal!
In 1967, Lord Bertrand Russell convened an International People’s Tribunal in Stockholm, Sweden, which tried and convicted in absentia, every American G.I. who ever served in the old Republic of Viet Nam, of being guilty of war crimes.
Ain’t that neat?
Think it was the Irish writer Brendan Behan who said something close to “First they tried me in absentia. Then I was convicted in absentia. I told them they could go ahead and execute me in absentia.”
Just like those high school kids in the movie, “FORREST GUMP”, I have a Confederate Naval Jack license plate prominently displayed on the front of my pickup truck.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/writesong/5177099853/in/album-72157624135445099/lightbox/
” Let us dig up long buried remains and move them somewhere – anywhere.” Here you go, JD. The Memphis city council has voted to exhume the body of Nathan Bedford Forrest, and his wife, and remove the remains from the city of Memphis. Along with a statue of him.
Not that I hold Forrest in any esteem, but, this is just insanity, in the name of “doing something”.
FWIW, Tennessee law prohibits the actions taken by the Memphis City Council. Not that laws have ever stopped a leftist from trying to do what they want to do, but the State may have some vested interest in putting them in their place.
It was also a combination of state and private funds, IIRC, which paid for the crypt and the monument, so again, Memphis will have some difficulties in going forward with this plan.
Last but not least, The local Sons of Confederate Veterans, the Military order of the Stars and Bars, and other interested parties might also intervene and could potentially tie this up in court for years.
Personally, rather than remove the monument and crypt, and I prefer that the City Council be removed and replaced with people who had the interests of the city in their hearts. You know, things like dwindling HS graduation rates, crime, taxes, shoddy streets and neighborhoods. That sort of thing.
I saw that just before returning here. Agree with your thought on replacing the city council.
There’s some snot-nosed “aide” to a state senator from somewhere around Ft. Bragg who floated the idea of renaming it, cuz Confederacy!!!
Nathan Bedford Forrest was on HELL OF A SOLDIER….at least give him that!
Damn, forgot the link. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/11/memphis-city-council-votes-to-dig-up-grave-of-confederate-general-sell-his-statue/
Concur. It is frequently true that, following a war, the winners write the history. This is a risky thing. Both sides were fighting for some stuff that was right and good and some stuff that was wrong and bad. If we write the Confederacy out of history, we overlook the right and good on both sides. For example, The Union is strong because it includes both the northern and southern states. Fighting to preserve the Union was a good thing. The South fought for states rights and that is central to our concept of limited government and “United States”. The northern section wanted to restrict southern influence over the Supreme Court and the presidency and they proposed to achieve that by wrecking the southern economy, not so good. Along with States rights the south wanted to continue slavery – a bad thing. I also have ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary war. I am descended from a colonel named Ethan (Ethan and all below are first names) who was at Fort Ticonderoga and Crown Point. My great-grandfather Michael and his brother Ray fought on the 26th Ohio Infantry in the Civil War. Michael was the unit chaplain, he was shot through the chest and survived until 1885 – 20 years after the war. There is evidence that a rebel General named Thomas is also in my family tree. The records that would have proved that relationship were in a West Virginia courthouse that was burned during the war. A great-uncle named George was gassed in the muddy trenches in WW1. Three uncles Ernest, Bill, and Joe were in the Army during WW2 – Joe was at Anzio and never really got over that. This is real history. Using current values, some of these people and wars are more respectable than others but, if we are going to revere and learn from the past we have to remember all of it, not just the parts that seem respectable 150 years later. I don’t think that it is appropriate to fly the Confederate Battle Flag over a state capital. But I will… Read more »
The left is screaming “SIEG HEIL POLITICAL CORRECTNESS” and doing all they can to enforce it by law.
Stalin’s cronies manipulated photographs to remove all traces of his rivals. It seems like those whiny special snowflakes are stealing a page from Joe’s playbook to do the same with regards to Confederate monuments.
I suppose that we need to destroy Auschwitz and all other “rememberences” of the Holocaust.
How about the Alamo? It represents a bunch of rebellious Texicans trying to take land from Mexico.
Wow – erasing history is going to take a bit of work…
NBC,erasing history is easy. You jut have to stop teaching it. We already have two generations of Americans who don’t know who we fought in WW-II. Who don’t know who we fought in the Revolution, or name more than one of the signers of Declaration of Independence. Their ignorance is epic, planned, and is a direct result of the Libs control of education.
When’s the book burning begin???
I will NOT delete the history of my family’s participation on the Union side of the Civil War. I will, instead, say that my great-grandfather, his three brothers, their uncle and my grandmother’s uncle all went to that conflict to free the ancestors of a bunch of self-righteous snots who just don’t want to be told the truth about themselves.
If you are going to whine at me about slavery, what are you doing about human trafficking now?
I see The Donald is stirring the pot profoundly on his campaign. I guess some people just can’t handle the truth. And the KKK is going to have a rally at the capitol in So. Carolina.
I don’t know where this ends, but it will, at some point. It’s going to go on for a while longer. I do see the stirrings of people who have had enough of this manufactured melodrama, and they are saying ‘Enough, already’.
I don’t know where it will end either, but I’m afraid it’ will be a huge mess before it ends.
There is a bigger divide between white and black and more animosity between races now than I have ever personally witnessed in my lifetime.
The president that ran on “hope and change” has done more to separate this country than to bring us together. (I wonder why that is)
Disclaimer- Let me make this clear so that nobody misunderstands, I see more racial Antipathy now than ever before in MY LIFE. My evaluation of what I see happening around me as well as on the news.
Agreed. There is too much ‘let’s NOT get along’, and not enough ‘let’s DO get along’.
PH2,
I respect that you are one of the only people here that calls out JD on his terrible, sanctimonious postings.
I am glad she does too. Never did like singing to the choir with my terrible, sanctimonious postings… think I’ll make that my new tag line.
Oh, that’s okay, guys. I can be a pompous ass, y’know. I simply do not see the glass half empty.
MICHELLE OBAMA: “Barack knows that we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we’re going to have to change our traditions, our history; we’re going to have to move into a different place as a nation.”
To her and her ilk, “Going Forward” means degrading the USA into some third world-style dictatorship with everyone but the chosen elite living as low as possible like in Cuba, China, and North Korea.
“Change our history.”
There you have it. No plainer way of stating his agenda for the remainder of his term.
Here’s my surprised face….
The left continues to squeal like the pigs they are being led to the slaughter. They have lost the real soul of this country and they are simply putting up the last vestiges of a fight to try to remain relevant in American society today. The worst part of this is that these things are being done by a small but very vocal minority that has the blessings of the left wing loons in government and the media. About 75% of the rest of us Americans are all seething with silent rage about how they are spinning out of control. Look at the noise being made by Trump, like him or not, he hit a nerve and America is watching him, no matter how big of a clown he is called by how ever many thousands of talking heads on TV. I take a daily poll at work to find out how people are feeling about the direction of the country. Without fail, probably 90% of the people I talk to at the Walmart here agree that they are out of control. Here’s the best part of that poll, even the blacks that I talk to, which are many, agree that they are out of control and need to be reined in, NOW. The only way we are going to stopp this crap is to not follow their rules, to disobey their commands and to stand against them in all cases. The State of NY has an interesting dichotomy in that they have been electing libs to the posts of government there for decades yet they have shown of late how they will disobey the laws passed by those same people they elected. There are now over a million brand new felons in NY as they stand against the gun registration laws passed following the Sandy Hook massacre that we hear so little about these days… Why is that??? So there are snippets of the revolutionary feelings that built this country continuing to show up almost daily. If you know where to look you will find them. The MSM ignores… Read more »
Sandy Hook???
Why, Thunderstixx, that was SUCH a long time ago, especially if you have short term memory loss like the libertards do. If it didn’t happen in the past 15 minutes and get on TV, it’s forgotten by breakfast tomorrow.
I found some references to the Stars&Bars on Okinawa in a book I just finished: William Manchester “Goodbye, Darkness” Also a reference in “Semper Fi”, edited by Clint Willis, from a book by: James W. Johnston “The Long Road of War” Also: Wiki: After the battle, a Confederate battle flag (which personally belonged to the company commander) was hoisted above the castle by the “Rebel Company” A of the 5th Marine Regiment. It was visible for over two miles and stayed above the castle for three days until it was removed by General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate General Simon Bolivar Buckner, Sr.), who stated that Americans from all parts of America helped to win the battle. On 29 May, Able Company, Red Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, commanded by South Carolina native Capt Julius Dusenberg, approached to within 800 yards of Shuri Castle. The castle lay within the zone of the 77th Infantry Division, known as the Statue of Liberty Boys. However, GEN Ushijima’s rear guard had stalled the 77this advance. Impatient, MajGen del Valle ordered Capt Dusenberg to “take that damned place if you can. I’ll make the explanations.” Dusenberg radioed back, “Will do!” Dusenberg’s Marines stormed the stone fortress, quickly dispatching a detachment of Japanese soldiers who had remained behind. Once the casde had een taken, Dusenberg took off his hel- met and removed a flag he had been car- rying for just such a special occasion. He raised the flag at the highest point of the casde and let loose with a rebel yell. The flag waving overhead was not the Stars and Stripes, but the Confederate Stars and Bars. Most of the Marines joined in the yell, but a disapproving New Englander supposedly remarked, “What does he want now? Should we sing ‘Dixie?'” MG Andrew Bruce, the commanding general of the 77th Division, protested to the 10th Army that the Marines had stolen his prize. But LTG Buckner only mildly chided MajGen del Valle saying, “How can I be sore at him? My father fought under that flag!” LTG Buckner’s father was the Confederate… Read more »
Like Stalin before, time to start “rearranging” inconvenient history?
When I returned from Japan with Mama and Daddy, we sailed from Yokohama to San Francisco aboard the USNS GENERAL SIMON B. BUCKNER (T-AP-123).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/writesong/3063265683/in/album-72157600591042868/lightbox/
The flag that everyone is hating so much is NOT the “Stars and Bars”, and in most cases, is not even authentically the Confederate Battle Flag.
The “Stars and Bars” is the first national flag of the Confederate States of America, flown over the Confederate Capitol, and at Fort Sumter.
The battle flag for the Army of Northern Virginia was a square red banner with a blue Saint Andrews Cross containing thirteen stars.
The rectangular flag that has everyone upset, is the Confederate Navy Jack, flown aboard ships.
The second national flag of the Confederacy is the “Stainless Banner”, being pure white, with a battle flag in the upper left field.
Because it looked like a sign of surrender, the third national Confederate flag was created, the “bloodstained banner”, which had a red vertical stripe at the extreme right edge of the white background.
The “Bonny Blue Flag” is a blue flag with a single white star, which first appeared LONG before the War Between the States during the Republic of West Florida revolt against Spain, and later, in the Republic of Texas fight for independence.
The “Bonny Blue Flag” looks exactly like the official flag of a Brigadier General in the United States Air Force.
If everything was being done properly, it SHOULD be either the “Bonny Blue Flag” or the “Bloodstained Banner” which is publicly displayed, not the Navy Jack.
By the way, the Confederate States of America fell to the invading Army, but it never actually surrendered.
General Robert E. Lee only had authority to surrender the troops under his command, and not the national government.
That’s why fighting continued even after Appomattox.
Several Units in the Army of Tennessee had rectangular battle flags with no trim on the outside.
A proper Naval Jack is the canton of a flag. The Canton for the CS flag would be square with no trim.
Never having served in the United States Navy, I did not know there is a difference between a Navy Jack and a Navy Ensign.
In a search of the Internet, I just now learned that what most folks call the Confederate Battle Flag is actually the SECOND Confederate Navy Jack.
The Confederate Navy Jack is rectangular, while the Confederate Navy Ensign is square.
I found some references to the Stars&Bars on Okinawa in a book I just finished: William Manchester “Goodbye, Darkness” Also a reference in “Semper Fi”, edited by Clint Willis, from a book by: James W. Johnston “The Long Road of War” Wiki: After the battle, a Confederate battle flag (which personally belonged to the company commander) was hoisted above the castle by the “Rebel Company” A of the 5th Marine Regiment. It was visible for over two miles and stayed above the castle for three days until it was removed by General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate General Simon Bolivar Buckner, Sr.), who stated that Americans from all parts of America helped to win the battle. On 29 May, Able Company, Red Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, commanded by South Carolina native Capt Julius Dusenberg, approached to within 800 yards of Shuri Castle. The castle lay within the zone of the 77th Infantry Division, known as the Statue of Liberty Boys. However, GEN Ushijima’s rear guard had stalled the 77this advance. Impatient, MajGen del Valle ordered Capt Dusenberg to “take that damned place if you can. I’ll make the explanations.” Dusenberg radioed back, “Will do!” Dusenberg’s Marines stormed the stone fortress, quickly dispatching a detachment of Japanese soldiers who had remained behind. Once the casde had een taken, Dusenberg took off his hel- met and removed a flag he had been car- rying for just such a special occasion. He raised the flag at the highest point of the castle and let loose with a rebel yell. The flag waving overhead was not the tars and Stripes, but the Confederate Stars and Bars. Most of the Marines joined in the yell, but a disapproving New Englander supposedly remarked, “What does he want now? Should we sing ‘Dixie?'” MG Andrew Bruce, the commanding general of the 77th Division, protested to the 10th Army that the Marines had stolen his prize. But LTG Buckner only mildly chided MajGen del Valle saying, “How can I be sore at him? My father fought under that flag!” LTG Buckner’s father was the Confederate BG… Read more »
Stalin would know how to erase this “inconvenient” history.
A while back, Tom Jefferson wrote a letter to his friend, Jim Madison, who was then in Paris. It went like this:
Societies exist under three forms sufficiently distinguishable. 1. Without government, as among our Indians. 2. Under governments wherein the will of every one has a just influence, as is the case in England in a slight degree, and in our states in a great one. 3. Under governments of force: as is the case in all other monarchies and in most of the other republics. To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the 1st. condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has it’s evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs.
I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.
Unsuccessful rebellions indeed generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” – Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787
Are we starting to light the fires and kick the tires?
Sorry for the dup posts. They didn’t appear for 20 minutes and I thought they dissolved into the interwebs vapor.
“I also do not think it is a good idea for it fly over the grounds of a state government, but I also firmly believe if it does, it is the state’s business.”
You know, it’s funny that you say that since the Georgia State Flag is the flag of the Confederate States of America with the C.S.A. seal inside the ring of stars.
Yes, that Georgia state flag is designed after the first national flag of the Confederate States of America, the actual “Stars and Bars”.
What most folks are erroneously calling, the “Stars and Bars”, is not the “Stars and Bars”, but usually a variation of the battle flag, and generally it’s the Confederate Navy Jack.
Back during the so-called “Civil Rights Movement”, Georgia’s state flag incorporated the Confederate Battle Flag.
But, when people started fussing about it, Georgia changed the design to what it is today, which is still a Confederate flag.
For some reason, the people who objected to the Confederate Battle Flag seem to have no objection to the Confederate First National Flag, i.e., the “Stars and Bars”.
Ain’t that funny?
Shhhhhhhhh! Dammit man, don’t let out our secret.
It (the First Federal Flag) also was the flag of the Georgia Hussars, minus the state seal and having but seven stars.
In 1861 Company A was attached to the Jefferson Davis Legion in Richmond, becoming Co. F of the JDL.
The Hussars possessed the only Confederate flag in the entire Legion, so the Hussar’s flag became the flag of the Legion. At the close of the war, that same flag, along with the Confederate Battle Flag, was returned to the Georgia Hussars who maintained them in their Savannah armory.
The flags were last photographed in the 1930s, and have been lost since 1941.
After the Confederacy was dissolved, the Georgia Hussars reinvented themselves as the Savannah Sabre Club. Their club flag was the Confederate Battle Flag with 12 stars (the one in the center missing); the red background was a muted brick red. Sometime after he 1870s they reverted back to their original name “Georgia Hussars.”
[Note: I just found a 1996 newspaper article stating the flags were found!
Yeee-Haaaaaaaa!]
As stated before, I grew up in the southern extreme of the Midwest. No that did not make me a Southerner, but my leanings were those referred to as a “copperhead”. Having followed four years in the USMC, I moved South with a one way ticket. Still here, obviously I could not help but learn the side of the Southerners and eventually rationalize it.
Consider the “Flag Day” held down here when all the graves of those who fought on behalf of the Confederacy are decorated with the Rebel Flag; purely out of respect to those who gave their lives in support of her. Having lived in Camden, Tn. only increased my thirst and interest for knowledge regarding the exploits of Nathan Bedford Forrest. It was easy to find and interesting to boot. In spite of the negatives written about the man, he was the only Confederate Officer (land officer, that is)to have captured a Union gun boat. This happened on the Tennessee River, in the immediate vicinity of Reynoldsburg Island which was of course flooded when TVA flooded so much land to create lakes to produce power for the area. FYI, there was a fairly important State Park in the immediate area with references to the man, the park being named Nathan Bedford Forrest State Park. How sad it would be to rename & replace a park all over what some dumb kid did elsewhere!
How would you like it if big bro. & company no longer allowed you to place flags on your brothern’s grave to honor him for having given his life fighting for what the family believed? So what’s next? Does anyone really think this is going to eliminate the UDC membership to further weaken the South? And you think the NAACP is going to be left intact as is? Better yet, the Black Panthers….are you fool enough to think both of them are going to be left alone? Trouble is brewing my friends.
You know, the whole “flag” thing started because there wasn’t a cop or an automatic weapon to blame for the shootings. It wasn’t enough that it was just some stupid punk.
Wonder what the next shooting will get blamed on?
That’s easy to answer, The Gun!
That’s too easy. It’s gotta be something that’ll last more than one news cycle.
Bret Baier interviewed Jim Webb on Fox News Sunday, and this is what the former SECNAV had to say on the issue:
“Unfortunately, I think you’re seeing it from both sides, which is why I mentioned the situation with Donald Trump with respect to Mexican-Americans. We’re seeing an issue which should have been resolved and now is resolved, flying the Confederate battle flag in public places turning — morphing into something much different.
And I’ll tell you, the best phone conversation I had during this whole last couple weeks was to a very close friend of mine, Nelson Jones. He’s an African-American, fellow marine, fellow Naval Academy graduate, Georgetown law. He was my counsel when I was in Senate.
And I said, Nelson, we have been talking about this for 40 years, that American South has never been black versus white. It’s always been a veneer, inside and outside, manipulating the emotions of black versus white. What are you hearing down in Houston on this issue?
He said, I was just at the barber shop. I asked brothers what they thought about this and they said, “Here we go again. When we’re going to talk about jobs? When we’re going to talk about education? When we’re going to talk about harmony and bringing people together?” And that’s what inclusive leadership needs to be.”
Wow… 41 posts and not one reference to Santayana.. for this kind of discussion, that has to be a record of sorts!
Lot of Stars and Bars in Vietnam flying on APC’s, in bunkers and on helmets. Bad Ass
Mr. Pendry wrote, “We must tear down statues, rename schools, rename roads, rename all of those U.S. Army Bases now named for Confederate Generals…. And, if we pursue this logic to the very end, what else can we expunge from our history?” I have no doubt some will read this and think me a bigot or racist or some such. it is not my character or intention. But let us hypothesis a moment. If we want to devoid ourselves of ALL reminders and remnants of the Civil War and all of its causes, real or perceived, then why do we not go to the VERY end of Mr. Pendry’s conclusion? The pursuit of the logic to its very liberal end (though liberals never consider in their skewed logic what the end result of rewriting history could mean) would be to relocate all black citizens who are descendants of those originally forced here into slavery and repatriate them to their homelands of origin. That way they could rewrite history to a Civil War that never really was, an era of slavery in a free nation that would become a historical non event. Sound a bit familiar? It is. It is what Hitler attempted in rewriting history to lay the ills of his nation on the doorsteps of the Jews. Then later in post WWII Germany, a deliberate effort to rewrite The Third Reich, Hitler, the Jews and the truth of that war from the minds of young German students. History has happened and cannot be changed, recolored, sugar coated or made anything more than what it is. Flags, names of Generals, statues, etc. they are reminders of that dark period in our history. When brother killed brother and families and lives were forever changed or destroyed. Good or bad, pretty or ugly, sad or sweet, our nation’s history stands as it is and to attempt to alter it in the minds of the ill informed is a step closer to tossing out history all together and writing new books which say what the liberal minds only believe is right and correct… Read more »
Well while we’re engaged in the process of rewriting our racist history, why stop in the 19th Century? All reading here surely have family members, mostly now deceased but nonetheless guilty as hell, of waging a racist war against those little, peace-loving, yellow men who were simply following their Bushido code of honor in service to their beloved emperor.
May I suggest we start the process of atonement by bringing in the bulldozers to raze the most prominent tribute to that racist war, the Iwo Jima memorial at the entrance to Arlington National Cemetery. Let’s send in a group of politically correct revisionists with cans of yellow paint to mark with yellow X’s of dishonor the graves of all who gave their lives in that horrible racist campaign.
Once they are finished with Arlington and the Marine Memorial, they should proceed to the Mall where they can similarly deface and dishonor that part of the WWII memorial dedicated to that racist Pacific War. Hell, while they’re in the neighborhood they might as well destroy the Korean War Memorial and the Vietnam Wall as they both pay tribute to those who waged racist war against people of color.
Surely the liberal revisionists in Hawaii can put together a group of Japanese descendants to invade the Punchbowl on Oahu and reduce that racist WWII memorial to the rubble it deserves to be.
And to make sure we have identified those remaining treacherous racists who defeated the honorable forces of the emperor, let’s require each of those hateful old veterans still living to wear a large cloth rising sun patch sewn to their clothing when they are in the public eye.
See how far these liberal, politically correct loons can take this crap?
Better to have this kind of discussion, and even Trump’s aggressive and abrasive statements, out in the open where people can decide for themselves which way they want to go.
Do you want to live the the blatantly false, daydreamy world of libertardism, where everyone is nice all the time and no one ever does anything not nice?
Or do you want to see these problems, e.g., lack of vocational education, lack of jobs, mutual lack of respect, etc., really confronted and dealt with like adults?
We have to face our history and be determined to make things better, not erase history because it is uncomfortable.
Removing a flag is a symbolic gesture and a waste of time. It is a refusal to acknowledge the history behind it. This is what ISIS does. Are we no better than they are?
PH2, that ISIS comparison is very apt. May I have your permission to use it as a premise for an article?
Sure, Poetrooper.
I am deeply disturbed by the level of denial of reality that I see in these libertards. If they really looked at themselves, they wouldn’t like what they find.
They will never be that introspective. Even when they find themselves blindfolded, hands and feet tied, with their backs to a bullet pocked stone wall, they will still think that their efforts were righteous.
Ah yes, the old Roman practice of “Damnatio Memoriae”.
Think people might learn from the frivolities of the past? Guess again.
Looks like Mister Lincoln’s appeal “with malice toward none, and charity for all”, and “let us bind the wounds of the nation” died with him.
It’s just crazy. But I think that’s the plan.
Think about this for a moment. History erased will eventually become history forgotten. We all know what happens when history is forgotten.
You ask what’s next on the list of things to go?
Apparently, it’s the Fleur-de-lis.
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/07/confederate_flag_is_gone_is_ne.html
Considering that the fleur-de-lis goes back to sometime in the 12th century, and was the symbol of the French government even though Napoleon Bonaparte tried to replace it with his imperial eagle, AND also considering that Louisiana was part and parcel of the land purchase by the USA from the French, who gave us assistance during the War of Independence, the nonsensical association being inflicted on the fleur-de-lis is just that: nonsense.
Oh, yes, let’s erase real history altogether instead of facing it like adults. Let’s do that. And while we’re at it, let’s forget completely that black people owned and traded slaves, too.
What’s next? I would suspect there will be a name change for places like Ft. Hood, Ft. Jackson, Ft. Lee, etc etc. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see the Arlington County Virginia officials vote to have all Civil War soldiers buried in ANC removed. Once the silliness starts with the left there is no end to it.
“One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present.”
― Golda Meir, My Life
The NAACP is now calling for Georgia to either cut away the images of Lee, Davis, and Jackson (No, not Brenda, Sammy, and Reggie but Robert E., Jefferson, and Stonewall) from Stone Mountain or sandblast them off. This is now beyond silly and stupid. Hows ‘bout we just let Brenda do her thing and call it all done.
It is high time the NAACP was told to go pound sand up its ass with a sledghehammer.
It might shock the libtards, but Lee and Davis were given posthumous pardons. Lee by Gerald Ford, and Davis by Jimmuh Cahtuh.
Grant pardoned something like 150,000 ex-Confeds.
Many went on to honorable service, many as Governors and Congressmen, many in the civil service and some in the US Military. Fitz Lee, Joe Wheeler, and Tom Rosser served as General officers during the Spanish War.
Can’t the NAACP be original….
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/14/atlanta-naacp-chapter-calls-for-removal-massive-confederate-sculpture-in-public/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_ISIL
The ruckus over the Confederate battle flag and the ongoing effort to destroy history is taking its toll in funny ways. Last evening I came across a reality TV show called Rehab VA. The show focuses on a family’s (the Tayloes) efforts to save from the ravages of time their ancestral estate, Mount Airy. Well, I was floored to see the place but sickened by the current owners’ strange regard for some old family items. Anyway, I googled the place today and first read a Wiki history of the place and some of the former owners and their relatives. It’s a who’s who of colonial and later VA. Here’s what got me: not once but twice in the Wiki post, “Mount Airy was first and foremost a stud horse farm and is still privately owned today by the Tayloe family.” Well, there is mention of another endeavor pursued on the property: tobacco growing. That is mentioned once and no more is said about it. Tobacco? Virginia? And sure enough, another source, a paper written by a Ph.D in 1977, begins, “On January 1, 1809, John Tayloe, one of Virginia’s leading planters, took a detailed survey of the 384 slaves on his Mount Airy estate, listing each man, woman, and child by name, age, occupation, and monetary value.” So, it has come to this: eliminating chunks of family history to spare 21st century Americans the embarrassment of blood. That’s some sad stuff right there.
Well, they are going to dig up the remains of a Confederate general and his wife in Memphis. And in Connecticut, “the Connecticut Democratic State Central Committee to unanimously pass a resolution stripping both names from the title of the Jefferson-Jackson-Bailey Dinner.” Oh. I should point out that the “Jefferson” part is not Jefferson Davis but Thomas Jefferson. And Jackson isn’t Stonewall but Andrew. Seems that he was unkind to Native Americans so he had to go. I guess this thread should be quasi-permanent as the Dems purge from their history the 18th and 19th century Dems who don’t fit their 21st century model.
The death of a man in Mississippi on 20 July is another answer to JD’s question, “What do you suppose will be next?” His name was Anthony Hervey. He was 49-years old and proud of his heritage, which included having ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. Prior to his death, he was photographed, now and then, wearing a Confederate uniform and holding a Confederate battle flag. He died in a car wreck that occurred as he and a passenger, a 60-year old woman whose ancestors also fought for the Confederacy were returning from a Confederate flag rally. So what? So this: The woman, who survived, described what had happened in detail. Mr. Hervey was forced off the road, his SUV flipped, and he was killed. State police are looking for the people in that car. The DOJ/FBI are not involved and won’t be. You see, Hervey was black. Hervey was an embarrassment to THE CAUSE and every piece of dirt and innuendo that could be leveled at him, both in life and after his death, has been. You see, it’s just not right that a Black man should took pride in his heritage or, for that matter, anything else that is not goosestepping to the left.
I’ll just keep tacking items up here as I come across them. Today, there are two more to add to the list. First is some idiot writer’s suggestion that the POW/MIA flag no longer for it, too, is a symbol of racism. Second, the University of Texas is going to remove its Jefferson Davis from its present location to another place less, um, visible. Jeff Davis has been watching the campus for about 100 years. I guess he can watch the underside of a tarp in some undisclosed warehouse until he he cis melted down or something. Jefferson Davis was a US Senator who resigned from the US Senate in order to faithfully follow his first civil allegiance: to his state. If you have never read his farewell speech to the Senate or read the accounts of his goodbyes, you really ought to do so. So, too, should the faculty and students of the University of Texas. They just might learn something.
Two more.
There are a couple of states that haven’t yet joined South Carolina’s kowtow to political correctness. One of them is Mississippi. Well, Mississippi is in the crosshairs now. Author John Gresham, Idiot Actor Morgan Freeman (ever hear him speak w/o a script? He’s a freakin’ moron. I was shocked.) and Archie Manning, among dozens of others, are calling for Mississippi to yank down its flag. They signed a letter that appeared as a full-page ad in today’s Clarion-Ledger newspaper. The fun never ends.
Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe has ordered the Confederate flag no longer to appear on license plates.
Update: Virginia is sending out letters that those with specialty plates depicting the Confederate battle flag have 30 days to surrender them. And…
“We want to be a place that is welcoming to everyone who is part of our university’s life. “We are also an institution deeply rooted in history and committed to understanding our part in it.”
So wrote W. Taylor Reveley III, president of William and Mary college in a message to students and faculty. He was explaining the decision to pry a plaque from a wall inside the Wren Building so that it can be hidden elsewhere on the campus, like maybe under a tarp in a shed. The plaque lists the alumni and faculty who fought for the Confederacy. Oh, and then there’s the mace, a gift to the college some 90 years ago. It has to go, too. It has that flag on it. This is how William and Mary recognizes its appreciation for history: by erasing it.
And if they don’t surrender those plates?
I believe denial of reality is a form of psychosis or something, isn’t it?
I suppose that their registrations will be flagged. Or maybe the DMV will hire plate repo specialists to get them.
Did you know that the Confederate battle flag issue has gone international? There’s this place called Ireland that has a county named Cork. Cork has a nickname which it acquired in the mid 1400s: rebel county. You can see where this is going. Cork fans sometimes fly the Confederate battle flag at games and this is a problem. At least Sports Against Racism Ireland (SARI)sees it as a problem. So, SARI has demanded that the Gaelic Athletic Association ban the flag, prevent its sale, lest those of us in the states see it on TV someday when we’re flipping through channels and see a Cork football game and mistake it for a rerun of the Dukes of Hazard or something. Idiocy knows no international bounds. All of this is my way of introducing the gal below, singing “Who’s SARI now?”
Just one today…
If you know anything about the Civil War—which most Americans do not—you recognize the name Jeb Stuart. (It’s actually J.E.B Stuart, but he went by Jeb.) His grandfather fought in the Revolutionary War and his father the War of 1812. Jeb was a cavalry officer, a West Point grad who resigned his commission when his beloved Virginia seceded. You may not know this but the Stuart light tank is—you got it—named after Jeb. In any event, Jeb was shot and killed in the war. There are two high schools named after him, one in his native Virginia and the other in Florida. There will only be one if a couple of Hollywood types have their way. Somebody named Julianne Moore—said to be an actress–and a Hollywood producer named Bruce Cohen are behind a petition that reportedly has some 28,000 signatures to change the name of the Virginia high school. Right on and groovy!
Doh. Planned Parenthood—the baby cadaver dealer—has a bust of Margaret Sanger in the National Portrait Gallery. And I quite sure that her image can be found in many offices within Planned Parenthood. Some people are demanding the bust be removed. I don’t agree with that demand but that’s not my point. This is my point: the bust is there not to honor her very unsavory beliefs in selective population control, we’re told, but to “see the past clearly and objectively.” Huh? And how many of those who honor Sanger but claim otherwise hold the same view of seeing the past objectively and clearly when it comes to the Confederate battle flag and the buried bones and the names of Confederate generals? I’m guessing that’s a zero.
Yeah, I’m still at it because those who would erase the names and symbols of 19th century America from 21st century America are still at it. Today comes news that Yale University has an issue with the name of one of its campus buildings, named for slavery proponent John C. Calhoun. Yalie Calhoun (class of 1804) was an immense political figure in the 19th century and served as congressman, senator, secretary of war, vice president, and secretary of state. Calhoun died in 1850, well before the Civil War, but, those offices aside, he was indeed an ardent states rights and slavery proponent. Can’t have that. So, Yale will be discussing the erasure of his name from a building. From there, one supposes, the very name of Yale will be examined. After all, the school is named for Elihu Yale, whose presidency of the East India Company’s Fort St George (Madras) saw a rapid increase in the transport of slaves and whose transport of kidnapped children was a serious issue at the time. Boola boola.
“The destruction of monuments is not only a political expression, but also an attack on historical and artistic values.” So said Peter Cheremushkin, journalist and Art Historian, in a lecture back in 2012 before the Association of Scholars of Russian Society-XXI Century (АИРО-XXI.) In the old USA, we used to laugh at the USSR for a great many things, including unattractive women and playing fast and loose with history. Monuments to czarist Russia were toppled soon after the revolution but, later, as this or that communist leader fell into disfavor, public evidence of his existence would simply be erased. History, you see, is a nasty thing when the NEW ORDER is being formed. Like I said, we used to laugh at the USSR. I’m not laughing any more.
2/17AirCav, there is only one other group in existence at this moment whose intent is clearly stated in their destruction of ancient history. Recently blew up an ancient temple that was located on an equally ancient trade route and had great historical significance for the region.
The PC crowd is composed of imbecilic split-hooved ungulates who seek every opportunity they can find to be insulted and offended.
I think we have as much duty to shout them down and put them in their real place as we do the SV crowd of lying thieves.
“New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu has called for the removal of statues of Confederate stalwarts Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and PGT Beauregard.” Fox News
There is no end to it, is there? Why don’t we just change our name to the USSR? If 18th and 19th century figures don’t meet our new and improved 21st century standards, we just bulldoze statues and monuments (not to mention dig up remains) that we deem inappropriate. No matter that the “enemies” of these and other men didn’t demand the removal of monuments to them. WE know better than all of them. Screw history.
Charlotte, NC, was the home of the North Carolina Military Institute, a school that opened in 1858 and was closed when the Civil War began. It was used as a hospital during the war and ultimately its buildings were used as a public school. It was demolished in 1954. A large granite slab marks where it stood but the slab bears a Confederate battle flag. So, it has to go. “We’re committed to providing a safe and welcoming environment for all people, and the monument does challenge our commitment to being able to serve all,” said somebody or other. Also from Charlotte comes news that repeated vandalism has occurred at a Confederate monument. The names of the nine Charlotte shooting victims were spray painted across the monument’s face and, on the back was spray painted a message that read, in part, “Slavery was wrong.” I wish the vandals had written, “So, too, is vandalism wrong but who would dare prosecute us?” Monument vandalism has occurred elsewhere, too, including Richmond where “Black Lives Matter” was spray painted across a Jefferson Davis monument back in June.
“The names of the nine Charlotte shooting….”
That should have been Charleston, SC not Charlotte. SC is where a significant portion of our history is rooted–and where an event occurred that prompted the erasure of some of that history.