Yeah, well, no, not hardly
I’m sure everyone saw Doc Bailey’s post yesterday about the troops who posted their political opinions while wearing a uniform and hiding their faces behind those printed opinions. Of course, some morons are using these pictures to drive traffic to their Imgur and Reddit accounts, like this screen shot that ROS sent us;
Notice where the idiot says that we’ll support the troops firing on Americans because they were issued an order. No, dumbass, you missed the whole point. In 2007, this blog opposed Adam Kokesh wearing his uniform to make a political statement. In 2009, this blog opposed the birthers in uniform who refused to deploy to the war on terror because of some goofy shit about a birth certificate.
Being ordered to Syria is a lot different than being ordered to fire on American citizens. There’s a mechanism in place for the troops to avoid being forced to obey unlawful orders. First of all, you’d have to believe that every officer in the military would be willing to issue that order. you’d also have to believe that the fellow down the street with whom you grew up would be willing to pull the trigger on you and your family.
The first week in basic training, I learned that I didn’t have to obey illegal orders, and I’m sure they still teach that principle.
The reason that most of us oppose those pictures is that the uniform that we all wore at some point in our lives isn’t a political prop, regardless of whether we agree with your point or not. The uniform doesn’t give us any leg up in this debate, it’s just a way to get attention and drive up the “Likes” on your Facebook page (for whatever good that does you).
Another fact to consider is that some of those clowns in those pictures aren’t in the military. I suspect many are phonies and that’s why they hide their faces so we can’t bust them. If they truly believed that they could decide which wars they participate in or not, they’d march into their first sergeant’s office and tell him, not hide behind a piece of paper on someone else’s Facebook page just to be a part of some stupid internet meme.
See what I did there?
Category: Dumbass Bullshit
You should get TSO to take a pic in his Confederate uniform to mock them.
What a lot of those clowns have failed to realize, is that they are not anonymous. There are enough clues (rank, ribbons, medals, devices, etc.) on a lot of the pictures so that one could easily filter the personnel records to easily identify the individual.
Someone from these clown’s CoC will recognize them. Waiting on the press to report their names come tomorrow morning after they’re charged.
if they had just waited until after we put troops on the ground in Syria, they’d have gotten off scott free due to the MSM making “heroes” out of them like they do with the deserters from OIF/OEF.
Instead, they’re going to be squashed by the UCMJ because of this before the media even gets a chance to martyr them. Funny how that works.
Jonn is right- If ordered to figt, I fight. If ordered to Jump, Feet and knees togeather and I count. If order to a fight i may not walk away from- I take as many of those bastards to the gates and explain to the Big Bad Ranger and St Pete what happened.
If we wanted safe we’d stayed home and never enlisted. But we need to honor regulation and customs forst. With out that we are no better than thoise we bust or call out. And I for one refuse to look at my God, House or Children and say i ran from a fight.
As a general proposition–not tied to a particular cause or issue–there is no doubt that Americans will fire on Americans. It has happened many times in our history. It is a sickening prospect but if, for whatever reason, the gov’t takes the legal steps to, shall we say, preserve the peace or quash a rebellion, the order will be given and obeyed. As for the guys in uniform with their opposition messages, I can’t get that crazed about it. I sure beats making one’s point violently and they may or may not be sincere. I’ll say this, though, I wouldn’t tell the boss to his face that I disagree with his new office policy. Is that cowardice? Perhaps, but it’s also job preservation.
@ 62/17 Air Cav
I agree- we fight with everyone, includng ourselves. We can only ask to do and act on what our conscious and honor allows. Not cowardice: You disagree with certian measures. Its common sense. Now if its the underminig of all we hold sacred and dear. Then let him have it with both bores. I’ve stepped on and had my dick stepped on for the same. Warranted at times, loyalty demands that i save/ warn those that lead me from disaster. If the take such chastisment is up to them.
Losers.
There is a “Barracks Lawyer” in every crowd.
Aaaaaand here we go.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/us-marines-website-hacked-by-syrian-electronic-army
I’m going to put on a Viking helmet and take a picture of myself holding a sign that says “I didn’t join Odin’s Legions to fight the Frost Giants” or something like that…I think that would be funny…
Or maybe a Stormtrooper helmet from Star Wars…and the sign could say “I didn’t join the Galactic Empire to fight the Rebel Alliance”….
Already being used for propaganda…
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/us-marines-website-hacked-by-syrian-electronic-army
[IMG]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/IMG_0428_zpsb6f4ce08.jpg[/IMG]
Just used a WWI Doughboy helmet with sign “No War for Wilson”
Okay, I’ve changed my mind about this. Seriously. It can happen, you know. Contrary to what some folks things, opinions and views are not static around here. I don’t fell any particular pressure. I’m not afraid of being in the minority opinion but, based upon the many comments and links in the original post and the views expressed here, screw these chumps. You’re in. You weren’t drafted. You’ll go where you are told to go or be charged. The military–DESPITE what the obamanistas and their Pentagon/DoD pooches say, IS different in kind from the larger society, for good reason. And this type of undercutting is not acceptable.
You know I actually “liked” that guys page not knowing what he was really about. I get that he lost some limbs while in the AOR as a SFS guy. One of my friends (SFS guy also) actually likes him and post his absurd messages as if this Kolfage is in the right. MY friend seems to think that posting bad sh*t about Obama is appropriate and he is an E-7 (Master Sgt) in the Air Force. You would think this guy would know better. But he is stationed at Mountain Home, ID which is a fucked up base to begin with. Nobody has yet to say anything about what he is posting on his facebook (which is pretty much him badmouthing Obama)
I completely disagree with whatever people like Kolfage is putting up nowadays and I had to dislike him because I was tired of seeing his messages on my news feed. I am suprised that someone picked up on Kolfage’s bullshit that he is spewing as of late.
I went to high school with Brian Kolfage. He lost both his legs and one of his arms in Iraq. Like many veterans, he’s somewhat suspicious of the government’s good intentions, and he’s trying to make things better for those who are on active duty now. Some of the methods he’s chosen are wrong, but he’s earned the right to be heard and answered civilly. Maybe instead of hurling invective at him on your blog, you could send him a Facebook message with the reasons why what he is doing is not a good idea. Funny cat pictures are great, but they are no replacement for actual dialog.
DB, he may be a good guy and I seen people who active disagree with him on his fb page. He does nothing to talk with those who disagree. He just has others attack them like they are rabid dogs. Sorry but talking to him wont stop him from posting negative things about government/president/military. As he continues to do so even when others have openly disagreed with the method.
I respect what he has done but he is definitely going about things the wrong way.
DB: I presume Kolfage is no longer serving on active duty (given the unfortunate extent of his injuries, I think that’s a safe bet.) Since he’s no longer serving, Kolfage has the right to say pretty much whatever he wants. I might not agree with him, but I’ll defend his right to speak his mind.
Where I have a problem is him actively enticing serving members of the active military to violate regulation and/or the UCMJ. If he’s doing that, he’s IMO over the line. He’s literally asking those folks to bet their careers and/or their freedom on what he’s asking them to do being overlooked. That’s morally questionable as hell, particularly if he isn’t up-front with them about the possible consequences of their acts.
Yeah thats the problem I have and he has gotten people to act similar to him. We are talking about active duty people are mimicking his behavior. You would think E-6s or E-7s would know better than to post BS that they get from Kolfage.
Some of the stuff Kolfage post about himself is inspiring. But he goes well overboard with his political aspirations and his anger at government. Which is why I unliked.
The stuff Doc Bailey posted is just the beginning of a radical mess. On my feed I see alot of anti war Air Force people posting daily. I dont know if this is happening with Army or Navy folks. But Air Force is so laxed that they dont punish these people.
Oh, gee, I badmouth Bodaprez all the time, because he’s from my state and I think he’s the epitome of what it means to be a dipstick.
Doesn’t mean that I have any wish to see anything bad happen to him — other than losing his job, that is 😉 — but on the other hand, I haven’t been in the Navy for almost 40 years, so I am less likely to suffer a backlash than someone who is currently active.
Even so, they do have a right to express their opinions, but if someone is using his own distemperate existence to draw other people who are still on active duty into copying him, they should know better. He’s just using them for his own purposes.
I get why people dislike Obama, cant blame him at all. I dont like most of the stuff he has done. But not going go on facebook and badmouth him while I am on shift and bored at night like some of these people I seen do.
He (Kolfage) has 46k likes. I am guessing at least half of them are active duty. I dont mind people expressing their own opinions but if you are in a leadership position and you are supervising 5-6 people. Do you really want those people to start acting like this guy and publicly badmouthing the president on social networking and while on duty?
Kolfage has to remember that most of his followers are still serving whether its reserve, active duty or guard. Just cant tell people to do this cowardly shit and he will post it. SOmeone might recognize their tattoos or a feature on their arms, neck, etc.
Not even sure what Kolfage is trying to accomplish at this point though. He has nearly 50k people like him. What else could he be looking for?
#6 and 15, 2/17 Air Cav – Interesting, although I can’t say I agree with the idea that Americans firing on other Americans has happened many times in the past. While it’s true that there have been incidents of National Guard troops at a state level being called out for limited use, if memory serves, there has only been one time, the Civil War, when the military at a national level was asked to put down a major insurrection. The Constitution, beat-up and dog-eared though it may be, has actually been pretty good about keeping internal conflict at a low simmer. One of the things that’s interesting about the Civil War is that it was one of the few times the Constitution, due to a flawed compromise, was not able to provide guidelines on how to avoid having all of us shooting each other. The central issue, which still exists to this day, was whether power should resolve to the states or to the federal government. Sometimes there is no absolute right or wrong, there is only politics as a pragmatic means to solve a problem. The military, for better or worse, is supposed to be an instrument of national will after the political questions are asked and answered. A tip of the stetson for being able to admit to changing your mind on this. Whether or not someone in uniform should be allowed to publicly express a political opinion is a tricky question. What’s disturbing is not the disagreement on the issue, but the tendency of one side or the other to either ignore, or be incapable of comprehending, an alternate point of view. My personal opinion is based pretty much on the example of what happened to Stanley McChrystal who, you might remember, was sand bagged by Michael Hastings in a Rolling Stone story in which McChrystal painted a not altogether inaccurate portrait of Barack Obama as a buffoon. McChrystal fell on his sword for that, and the reason was fairly simple to understand: As a member of the military, you might be extended the luxury of dissing… Read more »
@23: Well, the LA riots of the early 1990s come to mind (the ARNG ended up Federalized during that). If they didn’t end up shooting a few folks they came damned close.
I think the same was true in many locations during some of the 1965 summer riots in Watts as well – though I don’t think that one required the troops involved to be Federalized.
And of course, the Federal effort for Katrina recovery comes to mind. Don’t recall folks getting shot, but there may have been a few.
My point is that every few years, an incident requiring the Federal armed forces (to include federalized National Guard) to provide disaster recovery and/or riot control occurs. Any time that happens, there’s a good chance that troops may have to fire on US citizens.
@24 – My Cal ARNG signal company was activated for Watts in August 1965, but that wasn’t Federal activation, just State.
#8 Green Thumb,
There’s a “Barack’s Lawyer” in every crowd.
See what I did there?
@24, et al. — So you guys don’t count what happened at Kent State University in ‘Americans shooting at each other’?
I beg to disagree, if you dismiss it. It was the National Guard using live ammo instead of rubber bullets, and the governor of Ohio ordered them to shoot, which he should not have done. His behavior was inexcusable, as was Mayor Daley’s during the 1968 Democratic convention, when he ordered the CPD to ‘shoot to kill’. Both episodes were uncalled for and ordered by ridiculously overwrought, inept politicians.
And then there was the Bonus Army made up of 17,000 WWI war bond bonus veterans and their families (43,000 people total) in 1932, who marched to Washington and camped out at Anacostia Flats, which is now Naval Station Anacostia and Bolling AFB, to demand payment of their service certificates. Pres. Hoover ordered the WDC police to confront them and clear them out, and in the process the police opened fire and two vets died. Several veterans were also shot and killed at other locations.
Douglas MacArthur headed the USArmy using infantry, horse cavalry and tanks to clear out the veeterans and their families and destroy their belongings.
This partly cost Hoover the re-election. He lost to Roosevelt, if you recall.
Ex-PH2, while I understand your concerns, it’s precisely these incidents, which occurred over 40 years ago, that would keep Americans from repeating these horrible mistakes. No politician or military commander would order or even allow his troops to fire upon unarmed civilians exercising their Constitutional rights to peaceable assembly and free speech.
Ex-PH2: the list I gave in comment 24 was not intended to be all-inclusive – just illustrative. I’m sure if we were to look at the summers of 1965-1971, we’d find a fair number of other ARNG call-outs to control civil unrest.
NavCPORet: I wouldn’t be all that certain about that, amigo. I’m not so certain that a large, angry post-Katrina mob trying to “liberate” relief supplies wouldn’t have been fired on – armed or not. Especially if it happened more than once and the first time had resulted in uniformed casualties.
The restraint provided by the “veneer” of society is IMO more fragile than any of us wants to admit. I hope we never find out firsthand in this country just how fragile it truly is.
I’ve followed Brian Kolfage on FB for quite a while, I admire how quickly he overcame his injuries and how he lives life with gusto. It’s wonderful that he has found happiness with his wife and now his newborn daughter.
That said, I can see that he’s become increasingly angry about the state of our country (I can’t blame), and has lost focus on what should be more important to him personally, i.e. his family. He is ALWAYS on and posting, doesn’t he have a million more important things to do?
I’ve taken to skimming past his posts in my newsfeed and have been thinking about unliking him. Maybe I’ll send a polite message first.
As for the folks in the photos, I sympathize with their message, but they shouldn’t be in uniform saying it. I don’t believe they are refusing to fight if called, just saying that we shouldn’t get involved in Syria.
#30, Common I had to look at all of a post and its pretty much how I came to the decision to unlike him.
I dont need to see all of his anti government rhetoric on my news feed. I get that everyday when I watch Fox news at work. I think he at least post a negative message 3-4 times a day. People pick up on and follow suit like sheep.
There was also the Whiskey Rebellion during Washington’s administration, the draft riots of the Civil War era, the Houston riot of 1917, more race riots than I can count right now, the Haymarket and Ludlow riots (1914), and the Colorado labor wars of 1903. Like I said, there are many instances of Americans firing on Americans.
This probably isn’t the time or place for it, but when one remembers both fiascos in Chicago and Kent State, there is another side, one which was ignored by the media. The fact remains that had the dirty, stinking hippies not been engaged in illegal activity they would not have been shot. Not that I liked politicians any more then than I do now, but the primary blame should be placed upon the spoiled brats acting out who caused the problem rather than on those who were trying to act like the adults in the room.
Of course there are plenty of criminals out there shooting average Americans each day. Not quite what anyone was talking about, though. 😉
I don’t know if you care :but two of the students shot at kent state were not even protesting but just walking to class.
#32 -I thought of the Whiskey Rebellion as well. It is, to my knowledge, the only time a sitting American president led troops onto the field.
@34…what exactly can you protest when you weren’t even a brown stain on the mattress for another 20 years?
@34 “Vietnam War Protestor”. Of course we care. As the poet said “Everymans death diminishes me………”
But what is your point? It was the aggressive, violent protesters who set the scene. It was the weak, sniveling Kent State administration (just like other college and university administrations) who let this build into a conflagration.
And history repeated itself. Just like the Boston Massacre, rabble – and as a Bostonian, they are my rabble – caused chaos that ended with people being shot by pressured, overwhelmed troops. If you recall, those RedCoats were ably defended in court by John Adams. However, that fact was lost in Sam Adams and Paul Revere’s propaganda efforts.
#34.
Do you teach?
Syria arabic for vietnam tell your congressmen to vote no! By the way are hero anti syrian war military protestors have made the nightly news!
38 Just in the school of hard knocks!
Isn’t this just the most special little snowflake? So adoring. So wonderful. Maybe not. Difficult to tell from the use of the English language. There might even be a point in there somewhere.
I was thinking more like chickenshit OWB, seems more fitting than snowflake, delicate as he may be.
Gee, Kent State was something I saw ON THE NEWS WHEN IT HAPPENED.
Which vnwarprotestor DID NOT and only knows about it, because I said something about it, and it’s in wikipedia.
OOoh, how clever. If someone doesn’t bring it up, sstupidvnwarprotestor doesn’t know enough about anything that happened to actually make a worthwhile comment, because he wasn’t even alive back then, were you, you illiterate little parasite?
@29 Hondo
I’m not certain about it, but with the thought that we haven’t had such an incident in the last 40 years of the kind that I think we’ve learned our lesson in use of military force in the performance of police duties. Could it happen again ? Sure. Is it likely? No. We now have multiple types of non-lethal force available to us than existed in the 60/70s. Water cannons, rubber bullets (still potentially lethal), LRADs, etc all make the use of deadly force unnecessary.
My point exactly, PH! If that is your only source, then the only information you got was from the anti-war radical perspective. If you talked with people who were there, you might have gotten a slightly different version of the events. Like the serious injuries inflicted by those wonderful, innocent children.
#24 Hondo, #32 2/17 Air Cav, etc. –
My comment wasn’t meant to start a semantic argument where the issue becomes how you define “major insurrection.” It was merely an observation that in the last 200 years those incidents which even approach the definition have been remarkably limited. The shooting of looters, for example, is not about putting down a revolution, it’s about providing an object lesson in what happens when you try to make off with somebody’s television.
Part of the reason for this, at least it seems to me, is that the kind of people radical enough to lead such a large uprising have often turned out to be the type of sociopath you wouldn’t normally trust to lead a pack of Cub Scouts over a cross-walk. Remember Cinque and the Symbionese Liberation Army?
Is there a hypothetical case where an Army unit could fire on civilians? Of course. But at anything approaching scale such an act would need to be based on a set of seriously brass-bound gold-standard lawful orders that apply to a specific set of circumstances.
Not that it really matters in the sense of the topic at hand which, to bring things full circle, is the question of whether or not an attack on Syria is justified, and whether or not the military has the right to opt out of what it sees as an ill-advised adventure. The fact that the military might not be able to avoid it doesn’t mean they don’t have a valid opinion about it, with such an opinion being shared by a majority of the voting public.
My own opinion is that involvement in Syria is a bad idea; there are simply too many alarm bells going off all over the place. For what it’s worth, I’ve also been starting to wonder if Jay Carney and Baghdad Bob weren’t somehow separated at birth.
@39 “Vietnam War Protestor”
“Syria arabic for vietnam”
LMAO!! Congratulations, that is the stupidest thing I have heard all day! I wish you were here, I’d give you a cookie.
How hard do you have to work at being uninformed on current events, foreign policy, world history and what constitutes a vital national security interest to come up with that????
I mean, I know that people who protested the Vietnam War were, by and large actually just trying to be destructive to America …..and couldn’t grasp what was in their own best interest. That the only reason they got away with re-writing history is because they moved into academia and the media, thereby overwhelming reason and facts. But this nonsense? Just what the eff are you smoking that you think you can come out here and pull this crap with smart, informed people?
You need to go back to the daisy chain of DU.
Its not what you know it is what you can do with what you know. Read halberstands book “the best and the brightest”. consistency is the sign of a very small mind! If it wern’t for anthony zinni I could say ask a marine about it.
Perry Gaskill: if you’re talking about a bona-fide revolution, add the Whiskey Rebellion and I’d agree with you regarding large-scale insurrection being very rare in our history.
I share your concerns regarding Syria, and have voiced that repeatedly here. I don’t have any problem with serving military personnel having those same concerns.
What I have a problem with is when they use their uniforms to publicly express and promote that opinion. That’s using their military status to endorse a political position or issue – which is a distinct “NO GO”.
@48 – What the fuck are you writing about? You’re not making ANY sense.
Isn’t it past your bedtime?