The Durango Herald retraction

| July 2, 2012

I swear, Katie Burford is like lightening. She sent us a link to her retraction of the Timmy Oliver fantasy at the Durango Herald, you should read the whole thing…and to her credit, Katie asked me for my DD214 and I sent her a copy. Baby steps….

EDITOR NOTE: The article has for some reason disappeared, so I got the text from a cache copy and put it below the link;

A story that appeared on Page 4A of the Herald on Sunday contained a detailed account by Timothy Oliver of his time serving in Afghanistan. Since the story ran, numerous questions have been raised about accuracy of this account.

Specifically, knowledgeable readers found reason to doubt his service in the Army’s elite Delta Force.

Oliver, when reached by phone, said he could not provide any documentation to support his account or show that he had served in the military.

“You can run a retraction with my apologies if somebody was offended,” he said.

He maintained that he had served but said any evidence of it would be classified.

“I was trying to help people out, but I can’t prove this one,” he said.

Jonn Lilyea, a retired infantry platoon sergeant, spends much of his time looking for people who provide inaccurate accounts of their military service and exposing them on his blog http://valorguardians.com/blog.

Lilyea was among more than a dozen people, many retired military, who emailed the Herald raising concerns about Oliver’s account.

Lilyea said he dedicated himself to ferreting out fakes because they are more common than many people would believe.

“With the Stolen Valor Act struck down by the Supreme Court, that leaves private citizens to protect the honor of soldiers,” he wrote in an email. “I like to think of This Ain’t Hell as the stocks and dunking chairs of the veteran internet community where we can expose the frauds and folks can come by and throw metaphorical rotten tomatoes at them.”

The Stolen Valor Act, introduced by former Colorado congressman John Salazar, made it illegal to lie about receiving the Medal of Honor and other prestigious military recognitions.

The law was struck down recently by the U.S. Supreme Court, which pointed to the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.

Oliver did not claim to be the recipient of a medal.

Lilyea said the media should do a better job of policing accounts of military service. This includes asking vets to show their bona fides, such as a DD Form 214, which details service history and is issued to every member upon discharge.

Oliver, when asked for a copy of his DD Form 214, said he did not have one.

Lilyea said there is nothing offensive about asking for proof.

“I don’t mind showing my discharge – I’m proud of my service – and I’m sure most real veterans don’t mind. Only the phonies would object,” he said.

When asked to provide a copy to the Herald, he quickly sent the one-page document by email.

Category: Media, Phony soldiers

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CaptMustang

Outstanding work and good on Katie.

Information Warrior

Awesome. It’s human to make mistakes, but it takes a lot to make a mistake and raise your hand and take responsibility and make things right.

Kudos to Ms. Burford. Also, great job in teaching her the proper way to vet a veteran.

Zero Ponsdorf

Another Attaboy.

Not dismissing her effort, but YOU prompted it!

CI

Good to see the media doing their job and taking responsibility.

Marine_7002

I emailed her with a “Bravo Zulu.”

She seems to be responsive and responsible, and woe betide the next faker/poseur who runs into her.

CI Rollder Dude

Wow, I’m impressed to see that they retracted the whole bullshit story. I’m thinking if they just knew a few important questions to ask anybody who has a story like that…
1.) What was your MOS?
2.) Where did you go to AIT (or whatever the branch their claiming calls it’s schools) and when…and how long?
3.) Can we see a copy of your DD214 with SS# etc blacked out?
4.) Is there anybody who can verify your story?

Anytime somebody says their DD214 is classified, it’s BULLSHIT

Andy Kravetz

Look, I am a reporter and I appreciate all your help. But you need to understand. Many in the press didn’t serve and even I, who hang around veterans every day and read blogs like this can’t make sense of the jargon. What would be nice is for y’all to make and keep on this site a primer for us reporters so we can do right, so we can avoid mistakes.

I learned the hard way several years ago with a faker back in 2005. Since then I have routinely asked for DD-214s but would I know a fake one if i saw it, probably not. And the truth is, some of these guys can tell whoopers with a straight face. I was able to pick up a fake story and avoid embarrassing myself a few years ago thanks to what I have learned over the years and being able to talk the talk, to some degree.

Honestly, what I have found that trips people up the most is asking about boot camp. Really, that’s something that most people don’t consider when they have a story concocted. Asking about general orders or fire watches or what not, if you didn’t serve, man, that’s a kicker. So, don’t hate on the media, We do our best. But when you are doing 14 things, a guy claims to be this and that, gives a good story, has a few things that makes it seem real, it’s easy to go wrong. Keep up the good work and the fight.

Andy Kravetz, reporter
Peoria (Ill.) Journal Star

Jorge

@Mr Kravetz

Sorry, but if the information cannot be proven, you are going to publish it anyway?

Why report on military matters if you cannot take the time to actually learn about the military? It’s like the clowns who call destroyers “battleships”… c’mon, take two seconds and read a frickin’ Wikipedia article.

George (CPO, Retired)

CI

Mr Kravetz – You may indeed have the utmost respect for veterans and report on these issues as fairly and as accurately as you are able.

But the simple fact remains….many of your peers do not. Not necessarily out of malice, but out of respect for the deadline or the sensationalism. Much of what gets reported on military matters violates the bare minimum of common knowledge available to members of the media, from a wide variety of reputable sources.

We see stories daily where research has a heavy emphasis in some respects [like politics or economics] but falls utterly flat where it regards ensuring facts about the military or those who served.

You appear to take pride in knowing your limitations in some areas of knowledge, and your efforts to overcome them…..I sincerely wish that more of your peers did likewise.

Seamus Muldoon

Credit where credit is due, for the retraction, but I have to wonder what the point or intent of the original article was. It’s not as if it was a local Durango boy, hometown hero sort of story. Could it be that there is a form of wish fulfillment going on? Did he fit a pre-set narrative portraying veterans as “damaged goods” in order to make them more palatable in a left-leaning community like Durango?? (Durango is to Boulder as Boulder is to Berkeley) Or maybe it was all just an honest mistake by the reporter…

Andy Kravetz

Mr. Jorge, or just Jorge, I have been in the business for some 20 years. I have written things that, well, sucked, and I have written some things that didn’t. We all do. I have never met a single reporter while here in Peoria, working in Washington DC, Nashville or St. Louis, Mo. that has ever knowingly printed something that they didn’t believe was correct. Now, we might not do the research well enough. That you are correct about and that’s how I got into the military beat all those years ago… I hated seeing Marines called soldiers or vica versa. But I do think that the difficulty in covering the service is the jargon, the words, the entire culture. It just don’t make sense unless you are around it enough. When you are a GA reporter (those without a beat who are assigned anything anytime anyplace. Think QRF), it’s hard to be knowledgeable about everything. If someone approaches you, appears honest, has a good story, has a few fake medals, pins, pictures, and appears to talk the talk, it’s hard to see through the BS. Personally, the thing that struck me was the 1000s, of DF guys. I didn’t know Delta had that many. I kid but you get the idea. However, for the average person, they have no idea what Delta is. Hell, I’ll bet many in the service really don’t know what Delta is, really. To me, this is a good discussion. I do think that the press needs to get its head out of its ass and make things right via the vets and those still in, but the military needs to stop seeing us as the bad guys, telling their troops or vets that we are out of ruin the world (and this has happened to me) and work with us. I have been lucky. I have two or three vets in the different branches I can call, confess I don’t know what I am talking about and they will walk me through it. The Web helps. If a WWII vet, I read up on… Read more »

UpNorth

Mr. Kravetz, it’s not all that difficult.
1. Ask for a DD214, every time. Learn what Blocks 13, 14,18 and 21 say, and compare it to their story.
2. Ask for his/her MOS, then look the MOS up, it’s simple.
3. Like you said, ask about their training, basic or boot, then AIT or whatever the other services call it.
4. Ask for the name of someone who can corroborate their story.

Andy Kravetz

And I try to do that. I am saying that not all reporters know to do that. A simple guide (and I would glad to help with such a thing) would be good. What you guys are typing right now seems obvious. walk into any newsroom around the nation and ask what a MOS is. Count the blank stares. I just asked our city hall reporter. He looked at me like I was an idiot.

Don’t misunderstand me. I agree with you. I am just saying that we reporters, at times, need help. A guide in a spot that people could look up for reference would be great.

UpNorth

“Walk into any newsroom around the nation and ask what a MOS is”. Well, Bing is your,and their, friend. IF the reporters are motivated enough to write the story, they need to be motivated enough to do the background. Otherwise, they will end up looking the fool.

Information Warrior

Mr. Kravitz,

To echo “CI”, I appreciate your willingness to acknowledge the limitations of your knowledge. Shoot, there are many people who I’ve worked with who would argue for my continued vast inexperience.

Honestly, no one knows everything. Like many other people, I take people at face value and when they say they are a Vietnam Vet, then I believe them. It’s really unfortunate that we know have to ask them a battery of questions only to find out that they were born in 1979.

The best course of action (in my opinion at least) is to be careful, ask for documentation, if it looks suspicious (i.e. incomplete, bad copy, or doesn’t pass the “sniff test”) ask more questions. Shoot, even organizations that deal with vets all the time get fooled by fastidious fakers.

The worst ones seem to be the ones who have served honorably and can “talk the talk” so to speak, but are embellishing their records. That’s when it requires a group to huddle over the documentation and for someone who’s been to school XYZ to say “Hey, that isn’t right!”.

My final bit of advice is to remember that 99% of what the military does isn’t very exciting (exciting enough to sell stories that is). If it sounds like it’s straight out of a movie script, chances are that it’s made up.

Very Respectfully,

IW

Jorge

@Mr Kravetz

Please pardon my use of “you.” I should have used “one.”

Anyway, I appreciate, as many others do, when folks take the time to check the source. I apologize if it seemed I was attacking you.

Yeah, a couple of thousand direct action guys at one time should have raised eyebrows 🙂

There is a tendency to try to beat the clock… witness the MSM during the health care vote the other day. Gotta get the story out first, or else.

George

Information Warrior

Mr. Kravetz (sorry for misspelling your name),

Every military unit of some stripe or another has a Public Affairs Officer (PAO). If someone claims to be from ABC unit out of Naval Station/Camp/Fort Whatever, contact that PAO to get some assistance.

If time is short, Google/Bing works great too. (Said by “UpNorth” already, but certainly bears repeating.)

Very respectfully,

IW

68W58

UpNorth-those are good suggestions, but there are probably good fakes out there who can get around them easily enough (if they cared to take the time and make the effort that is, most don’t).

It’s telling that we don’t see stories like this coming from the Fayetteville Observer, Virginian-Pilot or Clarksville Leaf-Chronicle because those reporters are around military culture a lot and can smell a fake (I stand waiting to be corrected on those papers or others close to military posts having been taken by fakes in the past).

Mr. Kravetz-I have been in the Army, in one shape or form, for most of my adult life, but I also was a stringer for a couple of small dailies here in Western NC from the early ’80s until the mid ’90s. That was when the newspaper was at its Zenith (more advertising dollars, just before the rise of the internet, etc.), so I understand the culture of the newsroom (I also delivered papers for a short time). Kudos to both you and Ms. Buford, but far too many reporters still have the mindset that they control the news and those days are long gone.

Information Warrior

Actually, my final, final thoughts on the matter (pinky swear)…

People who have seen and done extraordinary things very rarely cold call reporters and tell them “Boy, have I got a story for you!” They also very rarely brag or boast about what they’ve done or have participated in.

People like Admiral James Stockdale or Colonel George Day have written and even spoke about their experiences in some cases, but they never tried to milk their actions or experiences for sheer publicity.

O.k. I promise I’m shutting up now.

Al T.

Hmm. Couple of thoughts.

One, excellent response in outting the poser. I appreciate it. 🙂

Two, Mr. Kravetz, hate to mention it, but you could post any concerns you have about an individual right here. I’m just sayin…

Andy Kravetz

As for PAOs, don’t get me started. Some of them are worse than the grunts themselves. I was once nearly thrown into the brig at a homecoming when I was asked by the unit to be there as well, they liked my stuff. PAO didn’t appreciate it and I sat in a FOX news truck (really, the irony) watching it live.

And there are good fakers. And there are just reporters who want to be nice. I don’t want to question a WWII vet who is being interviewed for a Memorial Day story or what not. same thing as for a Vietnam vet.

Honestly, what I have found and tell me if I am wrong, the people who were there, don’t talk. they don’t need to. They did it, lived it and felt it. They will talk if they want but you have to pry. What you’ll get are humor or tidbits or whatever.

People who embellish or flat out fake, I have found, are the talkers. When someone wants to tell me about a bad-ass battle, that’s when my flags go up. We had a guy here get the Silver Star or action on 9 April 2004. Talking to him was like pulling teeth. The guys, however, who were back on the FOB, told me all about it.

Andy

Ex-PH2

@Andy Kravets, if someone tells you he was in the Navy, then he should also be able to tell you what his rate is, which is the same thing as the Army’s MOS. It’s the title for a job description, as in my rate PH2, which is Photographer’s Mate Second Class. Job descriptions are never classified. The actual work done by an individual may be classified, but after a period of time, like 40 years after the end of the Vietnam War, it’s usually declassified.
The atomic bomb and hydrogen bomb tests in the Pacific at Bikini atoll were finally declassified and the images published in national magazines.

68W58

Mr Kravetz-Jeremy Church? It’s an outstanding story. We rightly remember Matt Maupin, but PFC Church’s story is worth repeating (same for PFC Patrick Miller in comparison to Jessica Lynch-as Paul Harvey would have said its “the rest of the story”).

LC

@ #18 (68W58): You’d be surprised – even the Fayetteville Observer has published this sort of fakery before. Here’s an example from last year, along with their follow-up the next day:

Article: http://m.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/07/04/1106001?path=/articles/2011/07/04/1106001

Follow-up: http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/07/06/1106304?sac=Home

Maybe someone else can correct me, but I never even saw them admit outright they were wrong, just that the claims were ‘challenged’. Amongst my favorite claims right at the start? The ‘Emperor’ of Saudi Arabia gave him an award.

The point is, it’s hard to get everything right when you’re not a domain expert. The efforts of Ms. Burford and Mr. Kravetz to correct errors and educate themselves certainly puts them above many of their peers, and for that, I’m thankful.

NR Pax

Mr. Kravetz, this is a good starting point when you are looking into information about an Enlisted MOS. And hey; you have a good pool of people here to draw on when someone seems too good to be believed. -:-)

68W58

LC-well, they let the story get into the paper so bad cess to them, but I will note that the story originated in the Kinston paper. Now Kinston is close enough to Camp Lejeune that I would hope that they would know the drill, but apparently not. What I think would happen if the story had come to the Fayetteville Observer originally would be that they would toss it to their military affairs reporter who would be able to ask the right questions/know how to do the right research to prevent publication. Anyway, some editor screwed up so they don’t get a pass. I stand corrected.

Hondo

LC – in fairness to the FO, the story you cited that was run by the FO was a wire service story the FO picked up, not a story written by one of their reporters. The follow-up appears to be a FO story. And the editor of the paper publishing the original story is quoted in the follow-up as flat-out saying that the guy was a fake.

streetsweeper

#24-LC The point is, it’s hard to get everything right when you’re not a domain expert. The efforts of Ms. Burford and Mr. Kravetz to correct errors and educate themselves certainly puts them above many of their peers, and for that, I’m thankful.

Well put amigo! Well put….As long as Andy & Katie continue to graze this site and bless us with their presence, they will continue to learn a lot.

garryowen

Scott B

I think Andy’s got a great idea.

A small primer that can be used by journalists to vet a DD-214. There are common mistakes, and there are common lies, on a 214 (as well as a 215).

It could include a link to a page that lists the MOS, rates, etc.. of the different branches (I’m sure the branches already have these), locations of schools, common abbreviations, etc…

Of course, a particularly stubborn fraud could use said page to try and make their documents “bullet-proof”, but the end result should ALWAYS be collaborating the story with others or PAO’s anyway.

streetsweeper

Now days there is a simple method of determining if one’s DD214 is real or not. NPRC uses a stamp when its issued. Raised little bump thing,lower right hand side. Do believe that 1stCAVRVN can verify that since he has a certified copy of mine.

Sig

I would only caution that I could show you my latest DD214 (from my AGR service) and most of you would call it a fake–it was THAT poorly done. I need to get a 215 issued before the next round of boards….

68W58

streetsweeper-I don’t think my last DD 214 (issued at Camp Shelby in January of this year) has any such stamp.

Information Warrior

Mr. Kravetz,

I’m sorry, I forgot we were talking about military PAO’s for a second….yeah they are jerks, I stand corrected.

Also, like PH2 said, the Navy publishes a NEC (Naval Education Code) manual that lists all the NEC’s for all the rates in the Navy. Can be found via Google.

Also found here: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/enlisted/detailing/personnelreadiness/Pages/NECInformation.aspx

BUPERS is your friend for Navy info.

V/R,

IW

WOTN

First and foremost, let me applaud Ms Katie Buford. That is the kind of honesty and integrity I’d like to see in her profession. I’ll accept that their morality means mistakes will occasionally occur, but the retraction shouldn’t be buried in small print at the bottom of page 10. I have respect for her for owning her error. In the more general discussion, journalists have the option of getting to know and befriending REAL Veterans, so they can check those little details that WE understand that the world doesn’t. A 214 from WWII is different from one from 1990, from 1999, from 2010. Most frauds won’t take the time to make it look right anyway, as they’re too lazy to find out that Navy Majors don’t exist. Most stories are generally verifiable with a couple of insider questions. That being said, there’s a reason Veterans walk away when a journalist shows up, and that’s because they know too many stories of Vets getting burned, of the MSM putting their political twist on it, of misportrayals, betrayals, trickery, and other misdeeds. For the journalist that proves themselves, over time, there will likely be a few Vets who extend their trust. Andy, I’ll do something I rarely do: plug a book I’ve never read, based solely on conversations with the author, Isaac Cubillos: Military Reporters Stylebook and Reference Guide, 2nd Edition Perfect-bound: 162 pages Publisher: Bronze Warriors Press; (2010) Language: English ISBN-10: 1466316985 ISBN-13: 978-1466316980 Product Dimensions: 6 x 9 x 1 inches Shipping Weight: 1 pound Isaac has been reporting on the military for decades, and seems to understand his subject, as well as maintain objectivity. His loyalty is to his profession, and that’s why he wrote the book. I’m less enamored with journalists than he is and their employers and bosses, as too often I’ve seen the events they misreported on, and known the people whom they misrepresented or tricked into trusting them. To Isaac’s credit, he understood my disdain for journalists, and seemed wishful that it could return to its days as an honorable profession. But like you said… Read more »

Squid Wiz

I can understand the reporters’ confusion. Even within the same branch of the service, different communities may use the same acronym for different things. As it pertains to not always applying a critical eye to someone’s story, I can tell you that there are plenty of medical people in uniform that are guilty of the same crime. Even when you lay out all of the information demonstrating the individual is exaggerating claims (usually to avoid punishment or for financial gain) there is a great reluctance to confront the would be story teller or throw up the BS flag. Putting aside the “customer is always right” mentality and the fear of congressionals, most medical personnel are acutely aware that they are not in the worst of the thick of it (except our corpsmen which are absolutely amazing) and they avoid scrutinizing the story out of fear that skepticism may be viewed by those whose story is legitimate as disrespectful. I would imagine that politics and deadlines aside, reporters may avoid drilling down hard for the same reasons. That doesn’t make it any less nececssary though (despite what some of my colleagues believe).

At the end of the day, other vets that know the person or were there are almost always the best resource both for those that are faking bad (exxaggerating for benefit) or faking good. Many places with a high veteran population, like Lejeune, have retiree associations. I’ve been to their meetings and some of these double of triple war vets would be tickled to have a reporter run a story by them to see if it passes the sniff test.

LC

@ 27 (Hondo): Thanks for the correction – I had read the original article and only the title of the follow-up, missing where the editor had identified the guy as a fake. Ironically that makes me guilty of the same lack of due diligence I was annoyed at them for, so I guess I’ll cut them some slack after all. While it’s unfortunate that reporters sometimes get things wrong, it’s also clear we all do – I’ll save all my scorn for the fools who perpetrate these acts of idiocy instead.

Redacted1775

Hey she made it right, no complaints here. Timmah, however, is obviously in need of a decent and prolonged flogging.

DR_BRETT

I have not yet read all the above comments.

Mr. KRAVETZ, up above:
All you “journalists” have big and far-ranging mouths.
There are many of you, few of us.
Instead of flattering This Ain’t Hell and saying “sorry” perhaps you should pressure the Journalism Professors and your bosses (editors), in order to prove your sincerity.
Just saying, a mere suggestion.
I am not a cynic — I require verification .

DR_BRETT

Mr. Kravetz: — NO, YOU have to understand, and you’ve a very long way to go. Form your own damned “primer.” Read a few thousand books, get YOUR OWN education, and think for a few YEARS, before you ever speak to me again .

Tman

I’m afraid that the reality is that many reporters and journalists probably do not care about these things.

I mean, they all don’t live in a vacuum right? Or are the majority of them truly clueless when it comes to posers and properly vetting veterans? Is it a part of them that they think it is “rude” and whatnot to question a veteran’s claims, that it would somehow be “disrespectful?”

Because this is just one person that is bending over backwards to right a wrong.

How many reporters and journalists are out there? Who wants to bet that in a few weeks (or even sooner) we’ll read of yet another person making ridiculous Spec Ops claims, and the reporter takes it at face value. Then is embarrassed, and is forced to apologize for it.

It happens time and time and time again.

Jon The Mechanic

I am trying to read it and all I get it a message that states, “The article requested cannot be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (DU,20120702,NEWS01,707029905,AR).”

And this is while from trying to access it directly from the link to “Stolen Valor” on the scumbag’s original article.

Jon The Mechanic

I went to a couple of other pages on the Herald’s website and managed to find the retraction, it is located at http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20120703/NEWS01/707029905/-1/News

Casey

DR_BRETT @39; way to be a complete asswipe. Mr. Kravetz comes here, admits there are issues with respect to normal (i.e. civilian) reporters and details of military service, and asks for a primer on the basics of how to separate the wheat from the chaff. Instead of offering useful suggestions, you say “Read a few thousand books.” Really? That’s the best you can come up with? What if you had to do some quick’n’dirty research on computers? Can you explain the difference between big-endian and little-endian processors? Can you discuss some of the basic points of compiler design? What’s the best approach for an optimizing compiler? How about a layman’s explanation of numeric inaccuracy using floating-point computation? Can you do a compare & contrast between two different processors, and their relative efficiency? (hint: a 1Mz Motorola 6502 was in many ways faster than a 4.77Mz Intel 8088) Let’s shift the argument a tiny bit; you’re a reporter, and you encounter a story about claimed hacking, and the most technical thing you can do with a computer is turn it on. Do you turn to Google (bad idea), read “a few thousand books, get your own education,” or look for a FAQ or a primer? I know computers pretty well (my first system ran CP/M), and I wouldn’t piss on a reporter by telling him/or to “get your own education.” In fact, there’s an in-joke about jerks in ComputerWorld who reply “RTFM” (Read The Fracking Manual) to every question. That response is both inconsiderate & rude. You, sir, are the end result of years of blood, toil, tears, and sweat; and I thank you for your service. What you -alas- seem to fail to realize is that your expertise is hard-won from those (many) years. It is unfair to expect a newbie to jump right in and demonstrate the same level of knowledge. It is doubly unfair to blow them off with snarky suggestions to “RTFM,” especially when they have a story to publish in the next 2 to 4 days. It is unfair -not to mention unrealistic- to expect reporters… Read more »

Hondo

streetsweeper: have to concur with 68W58. None of my DD214s – all issued at active Army installations – have any type of raised imprint.

NPRC may imprint copies they issue from official records, but in my experience the ones issued during separation have been simply printed on regular paper. The only exception was the first, which was done on the old-style multi-part preprinted form.

streetsweeper

@#32 68W58 – The seal used is like that of a notary public when a copy of a DD214 is requested and issued by NPRC ST Louis. It’s their certification the document is issued by them (NPRC) and not a document mill. That is the mark I see and feel on FOIA DD-214’s I request. I take it since you ETS’d at Shelby, you must have been MSANG? Thanks for your service and welcome home, bro.

Hondo

streetsweeper: processing-out at Camp Shelby doesn’t necessarily imply MS ARNG service. During the mid/late 2000s the Army conducted predeployment training for many USAR units deploying to the CENTCOM AOR at Shelby. The norm was for those units to return to Shelby for outprocessing at the end of their tour.

Army individual augmentees were handled differently at the time. They generally received predeployment training elsewhere (mine was at CRC-Benning, but I understand Bliss was also used). Augmentees also returned to their predeployment training location to outprocess.

68W58

streetsweeper-TNARNG. Thanks, I was not aware that St. Louis used an official stamp(never requested one from them).

Nicki

Andy, IW, et. al. – I’m a former Army PAO, and it sounds like some of the ones you’ve dealt with are absolute shitbags, who take themselves entirely too seriously, and have forgotten what their job and their mission is. A PAO’s job is to help the press get the military story out – as accurately as possible – and to promote the military to the community. That’s not going to happen if you alienate them, turn them away or try to hinder their mission. They foster confidence in the military, not exercise their AUTHORITAH! over the press. It sounds like you guys have dealt with a lot of that crap, and that sucks.

I would encourage the press to do a lot of research, but we shouldn’t just blow the reporters off if they’re asking for help, or clarification. It helps them get our story out better and more accurately. There’s a reason that the military is America’s most trusted institution year after year, and it’s not because we tell reporters to go pound sand or hinder their mission.

Just my 2 cents.

Boy, am I glad I’m no longer in that field!

Old Tanker

This is also part of journalism….

Make a mistake, own up to it, print a correction or retraction. Hat tip to Katie, she did exactly as she was suposed to.

@Andy,
come and ask all the questions you like. Posers can sometimes be hard to spot, especially the ones with actual prior service that are embellishing. Hell, they are able to scam the VA for benefits. And before anyone here gets high and mighty Jonn has busted a few that were long time members of VSO’s like the American Legion. Posers can hang around vets at VSO’s and pass themselves off and we get indignant when they slip past reporters?

Greyhawk

A primer would be a wonderful thing – for the serious frauds to read and really beef up their game.