Why We Must Tolerate Trolls
I’m new to TAH, as both a contributor and a commenter. I must admit to a bit of surprise to discover that a website dedicated to presenting veterans’ and warrior’s views to an essentially veterans’ and warrior’s community has a few liberal trolls lurking ‘neath the bridge of communication that exists here.
Trolls are so truly like teenagers in that they are sure that they and only they know the truth about everything. Actually, I expect that many of the trolls who cruise through IAH are probably, in fact, teenagers or young college students, as their posts would seem to indicate. So stridently sure of themselves, they are quick to dismiss the collective, hard-earned through hard experience wisdom of the regular members and readers of this site. Never having been in combat, they feel comfortable telling those of us who have, how wrong we are.
I say that trolls are like teenagers, but that truth actually extends to the entire liberal world from which they venture out to pester and aggravate adherents to sites such as IAH. They are childlike in everything they post, constantly seeking to prove that those of us here with so much more actual world and life experience are just a bunch of clueless simpletons. Ah, does that remind you of the know-it-all teenagers in your own families?
Notice something else about the trolls who post here? They always do so with much passion, the fiery, know-it-all passion of youth. I can’t remember the comedian who made the trenchant observation that we should turn over the operations of all government to teenagers: “While they still know it all.” What a great line and an obvious consideration we must keep in mind when these drive-by adolescents cruise through IAH and shout their expletives out the partially opened windows of their closed minds. If you note the shouting of such a troll as Insipid, (who on earth would ever take such an idiotic username unless he really didn’t understand the meaning of the word) you can quickly discern that this boy really doesn’t have much life experience. Is he bright? Well, perhaps but in such a way that his intellect has been subjugated to his ideology, an unfortunate outcome for him.
I must confess that I am not immune to rising to the bait on occasion. When I should just sit back and smile at the ignorance being offered up by the likes of Insipid, I sometimes simply can’t resist the bugle call to action to defend either my own posting or the opinion of some other IAH regular. I suppose you could liken me to some old slavering dog layin’ on the porch who just can’t resist the temptation of chasing that coon that wanders into the yard. OK, Insipid, make something racist out of that.
I know, I know, it’s foolish in the extreme to respond to a teenager, but sometimes I just can’t help myself, as when Insipid calls me a racist. I would wager that I have far more interracial life experiences, both good and bad, than young Insipid ever imagined having. Therefore when he calls me a racist I want to sit down with him and explain to him the realities of racial co-existence in modern America. I don’t believe Insipid has a clue. His cluelessness makes me wonder if he’s not some little rich kid who’s never worked a day in his life. The real truth is, I’d like to sit down across from him and maybe slap a little sense into him.
Ah, that’s just wishful thinking…
Whatever, here’s a heads-up to Insipid and the other trolls at this site: I’m an old poor boy who worked his way up in the United States Army and life to my present position where spotting phonies isn’t too difficult.
Know what I would welcome her? An old, been there, done that type troll who in spite of living a life of believing in liberal foolishness still drinks the Kool-Aid and would like to contest the rest of us at TAH. Swatting young fools like Intrepid doesn’t really provide any intellectual challenge. Perhaps an old liberal fool might afford a more worthy opponent.
Nah, a liberal fool is a liberal fool and the grey ponytail is a giveaway.
Category: Who knows
Quite the tangent, I hope you feel better after that.
I find that regardless of the type of website you go to, if its a liberal website, the conservatives there are “trolls” and the liberals are the fine upstanding posters. On the conservative sites, the liberals are trolls, etc etc.
The point to all that is just reading the website of their own viewpoint isn’t going to change their thoughts. It takes real life experience to realize how things work in life. Unfortunately, “kids” these days live off money they didn’t earn and manage to make it thru life without working hard for their money. So hard for their money…(Sorry, couldn’t resist)
Strangely enough, I was fairly liberal until I went thru Basic Training. After that I had a different outlook, though I went thru in the early 90s. (To some it was “soooo easy” then, to others “wow, how did you all survive?”)
And no, trying to debate with someone coming to this website to troll here will be useless. Generally its found that trolls are looking for an argument, just to argue.
I said as much myself over at my blog
http://themadmedic.blogspot.com/2012/06/disheartening-part-about-being.html
It can be truly disheartening to read some of the comments section and see people in the “know” who obviously have their head stuck so fall up their 4th point of contact that everything smells like shit to them. It can be frustrating to be called a liar. To be called a Warmonger. To be called well all the names in the book.
But they you remember where you came from, what you’re doing and the fact that they are and remain nobody’s. Dude you’re posting on TAH. How many people can say they can reach as many people as Jon and his traveling circus?
Eric,
I would add one caveat to your comparison of liberal to conservative websites: It has been, and continues to be, my experience that, in the majority, conservative sites tend to allow dissenting postings to remain on threads, whereas liberal sites tend to delete them within a very short time of appearing.
And that’s the main difference. Conservatives tend to debate the issues, and are willing to go to the mat with the dissenter. Liberals prefer the echo chamber effect, and delete anything that doesn’t follow the party line.
There’s two problems regarding trolls. The first is that the obvious trolls often can get fed and led on, so they continue, when their presence is nothing more than cheap entertainment to them.
The second is that people can be mislabeled as trolls, when they merely express a divergent point of view. Where you write that TAH is “a website dedicated to presenting veterans’ and warrior’s views to an essentially veterans’ and warrior’s community”…..you’re generally correct, even though plenty of content and comments here are not remotely connected to being a Veteran.
But it’s naive to think that you can place the point of view of the dedicated, non-trollish readership into a neat little box. It’s downright sad if that what you expect. That’s what Liberals angle for – groupthink.
Tim and CI, I concur, good points.
Doc, I see that lots of people write about them but they still stick around and do what they do for their own purposes. its rather unfortunate.
The internet is both great and terrible. Full of information and a great communication tool, while at the same time allowing anonymity in which people prefer to say things they’d never say to someone in person. But, that’s why some abuse the privilege. To feel courageous when they really aren’t.
#3 exactly. For people who so advocate the freedom of speech and their need to be heard, they sure as heck make it a point to censor exactly those same liberties from those who oppose their rightful opinions.
While I have not been around this site long, it does take a great deal of effort for me to return each time. I am a moderate politically and I am registered as Independent for voting purposes. I do, however, have more liberal leanings than conservative.
Since finding this page through Stolen Valor on facebook I have only felt satisfied with about half of the posts. Far too many of them are injected with political ideology in what should be a very nonpolitical issue. Yes I understand that in the realm of politics it goes hand in hand but, unless I’m mistaken, this page is not about politics.
In my experience liberals are more likely to support veterans than soldiers while conservatives are more likely to support soldiers than veterans; all at little more than just talk. Neither supports both at a level they deserve and have earned.
Regardless of your politics, keep up the good work here.
@Chuck – “In my experience liberals are more likely to support veterans than soldiers while conservatives are more likely to support soldiers than veterans; all at little more than just talk.”
This is an interesting statement to me, as I’ve lately been questioning how political expectations may differ from political realities, for distinct subgroups like the Military.
I don’t know how accurate your experience is writ large, but assuming it is for the sake of argument…would you think that it’s fair to say that the current generation of serving and served is expected to be far more politically conservative than previous generations? And that this is reflected in perceptions of support?
It’s probably true that our current generation are more Conservative overall, but was politics and the military as intertwined in our Grandfathers day, as it is for us?
Much truth to your next statement though: “Neither supports both at a level they deserve and have earned.”
#7- Could you please qualify this statement:
“In my experience liberals are more likely to support veterans than soldiers while conservatives are more likely to support soldiers than veterans; all at little more than just talk.”
I see no support of veterans from liberals (perhaps a few democrats, yes). In fact, I see just the opposite (defunding retirement benefits, etc.).
I also ask that you elaborate on your definitions of soldiers and veterans, since they are synonymous to most – unless you refer to active duty and former.
Interesting perspective, Chuck. Don’t agree with your analysis, but if that is your observation you need make no appologies for it – mine is quite different.
Trolls are those who wish to offer nothing substantive and in fact usually only want to do or say whatever is most disruptive. It’s just who they are and what they do.
Meanwhile, there are some here we call our “pet trolls” because they can be fun to play with. Most of us know the words or phrases which will set them off. A fine line between using and abusing our pet trolls, but they have gotten both upon occasion.
Perhaps the funniest thing about our pet trolls is that they most often have no concept that they have been bested. Teehee. And they keep coming back for more. Silly trolls.
We get a few, genuine commenters who’s views and experiences add to the discussion, such as Army Sergeant and CI. Mostly, we see trollfodder like insipid and we’ve also got Joe. If you haven’t met him, you will soon enough. He claims to be a 60-something draft dodger and HS teacher.
I read a number of blogs a day. What marks insipid and his clones is the discipline in making the same talking points and memes across dozens of conservative, non-Progressive, not-Liberal blogs. “Blame Bush” is a too-common theme.
For a while I’ve mentioned the trolletariat. What is coming out across the blogosphere is the architecture of the trolletariat. Who pays them, and who coordinates their message.
Now there’s been an elevation in their tactics in which their tactics are to commit murder-by-SWAT (aka SWATing), and coordinated efforts to drive non-Progressive, not-Liberal voices from the internet.
@CI – It will be interesting to see how things play out. I have a feeling that it will play out similarly to past generations. The vast majority will simply work, raise a family and do their best to be decent citizens. Sadly there will be a few, both conservative and liberal, who will feel the need to impose their views on other in the form of politics. Using their service as the launch point for a run at office. While it is certainly their right, my dislike of politician is so strong that I hate the idea of veterans tarnishing their reputations by entering that arena.
@ROS – Talking with both ideologies I have run into exactly as I have said. Liberals who want to increase spending for the VA and veteran benefits but want to cut the military so deep as to be nonexistent, or at least nonfunctioning. When I was living in Texas the vast majority of conservatives were all for a large, well funded military but veterans received little more than a thank you, a handshake and then you were on your own.
As for the difference between soldier and veteran, I use the square/rectangle approach. A square is a rectangle but a rectange is not necessarily a square. Most civilians do not realize that active soldiers ARE veterans. By separating the references a civilian recognizes a soldier as active while a veteran is no longer active. While on a site like this the difference does not need to be so distinct, on some sites it does.
@OWB – I think the description you put in your comment was far more accurate. Trolls are people who simply want to get a rise out of you. They serve no useful purpose and bring nothing to the table. Very much like politicians.
Yep, I’ve been there, done that, ultra-conservative and have a grey ponytail.
Call me anything you care to, but not a liberal fool.
I’ve certainly done some foolish things in my life and survived, but by the grace of God and a good intellect I am no liberal.
USMC 69-72
RVN 70-72
No apology required or requested.
I don’t entertain trolls or liberals…….they are what they are and it’s a waste of time communicating with one who is ideologically and intellectually challenged with no desire to listen and learn from experience, reason or truth.
“In my experience liberals are more likely to support veterans than soldiers while conservatives are more likely to support soldiers than veterans; all at little more than just talk. Neither supports both at a level they deserve and have earned.”
Interesting. The difference I have noticed (with respect to veterans) is in the attitudes underlying the “support.” One side seems to be much more likely to see veterans as a “victim” class because they were drafted (Vietnam) or were “duped”, not smart enough to know better, or too poor to have other choices (more recent veterans). This attitude or point of view influences the type and manner of support offered.
There’s a good story Mark Twain tells about meeting a young man on a train who after lecturing him about politics paused to wait for a reply to which Twain said he could not because, “unfortunately (he) no longer possesses the terrible certainty on youth.”
What bullshit. LOL
As for the true exchange of ideas between liberal and conservative websites. Most liberal sites either delete or refuse to publish critical well thought out comments that refute the original post with reasoned discourse, but any comment which they can use as an “example” of the terrible right wing conservative racist/war mongers will not only be allowed to stay it will be mis quoted and reposted. The selective listening and selective outrage of the left is what confuses me the most. Most of them do realize they are being used by the libs and still allow themselves to be used.
Most conservative sites though for the most part try to have an informed conversation, not yelling, screaming, shouting or ridiculing lib commenters. It is a much better conversation from my point of view.
I haven’t been on any leftist site enough to know if they censor comments, I would lean towards Mark’s statements to be generally true; although I do admit to ideological biases informing my opinion on the accuracy of political rhetoric and websites.
I have been coming to this site for years and at times I will admit I can act like a troll mainly when someone has hit a nerve on me and I just don’t care about the argument anymore. There are certain individuals here that they seem to conduct themselves in a intellectually dishonest way and I will become a bit of a troll to them.
In the case of out obvious idiots Joe and Insipid. Joe is an idiot through and through and I really have no use for him and I just choose to mock him than enter into any true debate. Insipid I really go out of my way to target him because he is truely stupid. He writes long winded arguments that I haven’t the patience to read. I like to convince him I am something I am not.
CI: In my experience DU certainly does. I have posted there a few times to take issue with what I perceived to be idiocy. My comments uniformly disappeared within a few minutes (and no, they weren’t foul or abusive). The account I used to post generally got disabled as well.
I don’t bother any more. At DU, they seem more interested in being a self-licking ice cream cone vice a forum for debate. They don’t tolerate Thoughtcrime.
First off, I’m 47 hardly a teenager. And i made it very clear why i called you a racist. It was because you write clearly racist things. Calling Barack Obama an “Affirmative Action President” is racist. And i do not care whether a black or white person uses the phrase or if someone happens to be married to a black or white person the phrase is racist. Stop using the phrase and apologize for it and I’ll happily stop calling you racist. Cause no matter how much you bullshit on and on about how inadequate my intellectual capacity is and how great your intellectual capacity is and how vast your life experience is and how inadequate mine is and how much more of a friend to black folks you are then me the fact will always remain- you used racist terminology and i called you on it. And all that other crap your throwing in the way is just you having a temper tantrum. All this talk of what kind of guy i am, does not hurt my feelings because none of it is true. You’re talking about a fictional insipid, just as you folks talk of a fictional Barack Obama. You know the extreme radical, lazy guy, who can’t speak without a teleprompter and clearly hates America. It’s a guy you made up. So instead of going on about me, why don’t you actually exercise your incredibly awesome intellect and actually defend your statement? I will ask the questions which you have been dodging AGAIN. If the phrase “Affirmative Action President” is not racist than why isn’t it being used anywhere else but talk radio and the blogosphere? Why isn’t there ANY elected Republicans that will touch that phrase? Why won’t the Romney campaign touch it? It is a fact- if you used that phrase towards a black co-worker or boss in ANY office in the nation you would very quickly find yourself talking to someone in human resources. Hell, if you called Presidend Obama that in most offices in the country you’d find yourself in front of human… Read more »
Poetrooper, now you did it. Although, in a way, what you did is admirable. You got the entire list of talking points from OfA posted here in one post.
There’s nothing that i said that is a “talking point” nor was it listed at OFA. But it would be nice if he accomplished something. He certainly hasn’t defended his racist comments.
I’m just curious how you can even see your monitor to type with BHO’s ass planted firmly in front of your face, Insipid. Bravo.
Would asking if it tastes like vanilla or chocolate be racist as well?
That’s President, BHO to you, asshole.
But it would be nice if he accomplished something. He certainly hasn’t defended his racist comments.
Yeah, but the odds of President Obama doing either are pretty slim.
Holy fucking shit…you compared Obama to Lincoln? Really? I constanly make crass jokes about you being a prostitute working for crack money, but that really takes the cake. Stay away from the bath salts son they aren’t good for you. It must be painful to be that stupid, because the comparison you drew was some of the most retarded shit I have ever read in my entire life. See Lincoln wasn’t afraid to get his hands dirty when he needed to, he was elected to be a militia leader and went after a tribe of native americans. Lincoln used to split wood…shit hell about the only thing they have in common is that they were both senators from Illinois.
Once again BATH SALTS ARE BAD!
It’s MS. Asshole to you, good sir, and I’ll refer to him as such when you either a) refer to President Bush as such, or b) show me DNA proof that you aren’t what ran down his mother’s ass.
When being accused of being a racist when the person you are supposedly being racist toward is of mixed races, how does one decide which half (or quarter, or eighth, or whatever) is the object of the other one’s racism? In the case of someone who is half white and half black, how is it even possible for either someone white or someone black to be racist toward that person – wouldn’t the two halves neutralize any racist effect?
Or is insipid just making crazy assumptions again? (No, I can’t be bothered reading any more of the crap. It’s just blah-blah-blah. But would guess that they pay him/her/it by the word posted at each assigned trolling site.)
I skimmed and saw the Lincoln comparison…I was kind of befuddled. This is what I saw:
kdnfpqokernaonpro cthpqoihrmvpahercgiqjxoeijrcgnfsngwporjntpo
gktnbsobnosprknbspkmbgskmtborbgtkms[rbkm[kmbs[rkbmkmbts[kbm
Lincoln and Obama are just about alike…
Mmm, Lincoln was a Congressman from Illinois. He lost in his run for the Senate to Stephen Douglas. And yes, they are similar in their oratorical skills, in their styles of leadership and in the fact that they both came from humble beginnings. And this notion that Obama has never worked hard in his life is just a fantasy on your part.
Look OWB, you guys are the ones who made up the one drop rule. As far as Obama’s race is concerned, he is black, or African American. It’s how he describes himself, it’s how he looks. And most importanly, it is the sole reason why Poetrooper described him as an “Affirmative Action” President. The perjorative is designed to advance the idea that he doesn’t deserve his position because none of THEM earn it. It’s always handed to them. That’s the notion poetrooper was trying to convey, and it is racist.
And most importanly, it is the sole reason why Poetrooper described him as an “Affirmative Action” President.
You have proof of this?
I figured he’s described as an “Affirmative Action President” because so many of his supporters in 2008 seemed to be pushing the “elect a black man because there’s never been a black president” line… which sounds a lot like Affirmative Action.
What supporters were pushing that? The only one you’ve trotted out thus far has been Samuel L. Jackson. I read just about everything from his platform and heard just about every speech and argument in support of him and I can’t recall anyone ever saying “elect Obama because there’s never been a black President”.
You remind me of Racist Rush Limbaugh, the day after Colin Powell carefully anunciated all the reasons he was supporting President Obama, Rush declared “IT WAS ENTIRLEY ABOUT RACE!” Basically he heard what he wanted to hear and divorced himself from all fact and reason.
He is using the phrase to insinuate that President Obama is not deserving of his position or respect for obtaining it. It is wrong, it is racist.
You know what on second thought insipid Bath Salts are good…insipid have fun!
Seriously, what supporters? Had you not heard of the internet in 2008?
What internet site? Kos didn’t advance that message, neither did Crooks and liars or Huff post, or Democratic Underground? Digby? Are you talking about commentors on a board? What are you talking about? Cause i was actively at all those sites and I can’t recall that being advanced anywhere as a reason to vote for him. Specifically, other than “I know a guy” what are you talkig about?
Have faith, Jason. The bath salts line WILL suddenly become funny if you keep repeating it! At least that’s what my 8 year old nephew believes.
Yes, commenters. Obama supporters trying to get others to support him. “First black president” was a very popular message.
I don’t believe that you never saw that line. Whether it was astroturf or legitimate grass roots I can’t say, but I saw it all over the place. IMDB, Amazon, some game-related boards… not just sites devoted to politics.
@#23, who the fuck was talking to you? I was addressing Poetrooper.
Instupid: “Russ, you’re a racist.”
Russ V.: “My wife is black, WTF are you talking about?”
Instupid: “I don’t care, you’re still a racist.”
^ THIS, instupid, is why no one here takes you seriously. At all.
You said it on a public message board upnorth. If you want privacy there’s e-mail
As far as malclave goes, I heard people commenting on it being great to live to see a black President but i never heard anyone advance that as a reason to vote for him. Again, until you can give me any specifics as to that being a campaign strategy or any exit polls or ANYTHING other than comments on some board which you can’t name, i’ll just assume you just don’t want to face the fact that you lost.
Redacted, he is racist because he used racist terminology. If YOU want to be taken seriously then defend the term. Again, if a black person used the phrase, i’d call him a racist too. I can’t judge him by his background, i don’t know his background. Nor does he come even close to knowing mine. But unlike him i don’t make a fool of myself trying to guess his background. But i can judge him by what he writes on this board and it is racist shit.
Like I said, no one here takes you seriously, and you substantiate that claim with every post you make.
insipid, I really don’t believe you never saw the people pushing “first black president” as a reason to voto for Obama. You’re probably a liar, but I have to cede the possibility that your willfull ignorance is of truly epic proportions. If you want to consider that “winning”, you’re welcome to.
On a tangential note, did you call Obama racist for his “typical white woman” remark?
Insipid, seriously youre going to try this again? In 2008 more than one of my black troops was outright saying folks should vote for Obama because he was black and it was about time a brotha was in the WH. If you didnt see behavior of that nature its likely because your head was so far up your ass you were only seeing your own tonsils.
Redacted, insipid trotted this out, “But i can judge him by what he writes on this board and it is racist shit”. Just like the under-achieving kid, who can’t get any attention any other way than to stand up in class and yell “fuck”. Since he found this place, he’s done nothing but do that. He can’t argue his points, so he uses a lot of swear words. He posts overly long, wordy diatribes and, generally, wastes bandwidth and time of his betters.
And, Rush was right, Powell voted for Obama, solely based on race. As did Morgan Freeman, Sammie Jackson and every lib that voted for him. Because he had no qualifications. Other than voting “Present” in the Senate.
PLEAZE EGNORE MYNOR SPEELING EOORRS:
OK Mr. Insipid … regarding your inadequate intellectual capacity and your ability to use the word “racist” supports my notion that you are constantly looking for racism in every aspect of life and politics. That may indicate that you are the racist. Futhermore, your attempt to argue in the opposition of the reference “Affirmative Action President” is appallingly simplistic and quite humorous. Let me remind you, blacks voted overwhelmingly for Pres. Obama as well as whites who wanted the first black president. If you don’t believe me. just ask ABC, CBS, NBC, etc … And that my friend, Mr. Insipid is “Affirmative Action” if I have ever seen, smelled, or tasted it. He was elected largerly because of his color. Period. To suggest that he was similar to Pres. Lincoln in skill and background is pure … how should I say … BULLSHIT. What was reported prior to his election as compared to his performance to date confirms he was not qulaified, ill prepared, not well suited (in many categories), and way in over his head. For your attempt in keeping the “Race Card” in play I score you at a 13% out of 100. And I assign the 13% only because it symbolizes and denotes the level of bad luck you have had attempting to articulate a position that does not hold water.
BTW why is your Screen Name or Handle –> in·sip·id adj \in-?si-p?d\?
Definition of INSIPID
1: lacking taste or savor : tasteless
2: lacking in qualities that interest, stimulate, or challenge : dull, flat
Examples of INSIPID
The soup was rather insipid.
Endnote: I have the highest regard for the Office of the President of the Unites States of America.
@21 Insipid, did you actually state that you are FORTY-SEVEN?
Guess it proves the wisdom of Churchill’s observation that a man of twenty-seven who is not liberal has no heart while a man of forty-seven who is not conservative has no brain.
Wise man that Winston…
Further proof that heavy drug usage retards maturity.