Marines investigating video
The Marine Corps is investigating a video that was posted on YouTube which purports to show Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. The video is above – until it gets removed. But the Star & Stripes reports;
The video, posted Tuesday on YouTube , shows four men in U.S. military uniforms standing above the corpses, joking and making references to relieving themselves on the dead men. Capt. Kendra Hardesty, a spokeswoman for the Corps, said officials have not verified any details of the incident but added, “The actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps. This matter will be fully investigated and those responsible will be held accountable for their actions.”
It looks a little grainy to me and it’s hard to tell what’s going on in the video. I think someone is being pranked.
I understand the sentiment, but I don’t condone it…especially filming it and putting it on YouTube. That was a real bonehead play.
Category: Marine Corps
Pissing on the recently deceased religious zealots who have been trying to kill you for the last few days: distasteful.
Filming it and putting it on Youtube: Idiotic.
If you’re running around Afghanistan literally pissing on dead Taliban/al Qaeda fighters and filming it for upload onto YouTube you’re too stupid to be allowed to put on additional stripes and mentor the next generation. This is the 21st century where the enemy’s most potent weapon is viral propaganda. If you’re not mentally equipped to fight that battle you need to step aside. If you’re failing to impart that fact on your troops you have no business leading them.
Great….cellphones and the internet allows Joe’s to explore new and exciting ways to be dumbasses.
That 5 men don’t have 2 working brain cells among them is a crying shame. And what I’m talking about first and foremost is that that video will get people killed.
So what? These terrorists wanted total war, I say give it to them. It’s distastefull? Those are dead fascists, I have no problems with “humiliating” people on the level of Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich.
Humiliate them more. Take their heads and put them on public display. Draw and quarter the survivors.
This is WAR. Not some intellectual quarrel. It’s them or us.
@4 – Tell me the upside of this action.
@AirCav, the islamo-fascists already hate us. They have hated us before 9-11. They have hated the west before this video. NY, London, Madrid. More than 18,000 deadly terror attacks since 9-11 in the name of islam. They will hate us after this video.
So what?
Nuke them. Finish it for good. They wanted total war. Time to give it to them.
@CI there is none, just like there is no downside either. You Yanks need to get your collective heads out of your butts and realize that the enemy is islam. Always has been. There is no moderate islam, there is no radical islam, there is only islam. And islam is fascist.
So some dead fascists were humiliated. So what? Who cares? Those bastards already hate us and have hated us for 1,400 years. To hell with them.
@7 – Ah…I see. Kill ’em all eh? Yeah, that makes sense.
AKM, when this video gets into the hands of propagandists the intended audience won’t be Islamists. The propagandists won’t even entirely be Islamists themselves. The target will be the members of Western Civilization, citizens of the democracies fighting this conflict because it’s their opinion of the conduct and nature of the war which matters most of all. Radical Islam can’t defeat the West, only the West itself can do that.
Those men are dead, their fight is over.
@9 – “Radical Islam can’t defeat the West, only the West itself can do that.”
Dead on!
But I would amend that the audience will also be those whom we rely on…like our Terps.
AKM: I understand your sentiment and your frustration but, tell me this, putting aside for a moment the act itself of pissing on corpses, how does the video or its publication further the mision? What good could come from it, aside from revenge and recruitment for the enemy?
First let me say these guys are complete dumbasses for 1. Violating the law of land warfare and 2. being stupid enough to film it; as if they hadn’t learned from the likes of My Lai, Abu ghraib, Haditha, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Second, I have not seen this level of outrage from the media for videotaped beheadings posted on the internet by Al Qaeda and their ilk. You see maybe a brief 2 minute segment about it and that’s it. Though humiliated, the abu ghraib inmates survived (most of them, anyways). Yeah, someone’s getting pissed on in that video, but they can’t feel it because they’re already dead. Nothing compared to listening to someone scream and gurgle through a hole chopped in their neck as their head gets hacked off.
It’s no Prank you can see the idiot closest to the wheelbarrow pissing on the dead. Fucking NCO fail. Team Leader, Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant aint worth their chevrons.
@12: Please do not include Haditha with those other events. Haditha was a hit piece based on the article of an unethical journalist and then picked up by a POS congressman. None of the defendants that have been tried have been found guilty. The last defendat is getting ready to be tried.
We’re the good guys, Redacted1775. That doesn’t mean that in war prisoners haven’t been shot by our troops in war or innocents needlessly but deliberately killed. What it does mean is that we–as the good guys–recognize the inherent wrongfulness of these things and take some action to stop recurrences. It’s not a holier-than-thou approach. It’s merely an acknowledgement that these things do happen from time to time and they are wrong.
AGEFMB, agreed, maybe Haditha was a poor example,but it is an example of what happens when media can get a hold of footage and, well, blow it out of proportion or add their own story to it. The Haditha story no doubt used by the mujihadeen as a rallying cry and potentially cost many Marines their lives. The Marines were acquitted, and I have no doubt the SSgt soon to be tried will also be acquitted. @#15. I honestly believe events like this have been going on for centuries, as long as warfare has existed. Only difference now is we have shitheads videotaping it and putting it up for all to see. Now we’re going to have subhuman morons who don’t know any better thinking that this is what Marines are trained to do, like tossing puppies off cliffs. PR nightmare ensues.
@16. I’m there.
Always good for us to remind folks that even though we find this sort of thing distasteful, that is all it is – distasteful. It doesn’t come close to the real atrocities being committed by our enemies.
That alone should be enough to wake up those who doubt why we must fight this to win it.
I was tempted to do something similar once. It’s the last “FU” that you give to enemies you don’t respect. Sometimes, it is done. Not making excuses. Just saying it does happen.
Filming it. . . that was just plain retarded.
Yes this crap happens, yes we hold/are held to a higher standard than the opposing side (yeah no matter who- look for MSM “equivalence” bs if ever the Koreas blow up again). While distasteful I don’t rate it any higher. But what in the name of holy heck are ANY western military personnel thinking to record this! MF, that is an own goal!
Hmmmmmm, well you say that Marines are killed because of this….would they not be killed or not be attacked if this wasn’t done/filmed? (of course they would)
The jihadists will still attack us, whether we air our frustrations out on their dead or not……
I don’t think it matters much in the long run….it may help recruit a little, but there are more ways to recruit future terrorists than a video of Marines pissing on their dead.
Maybe we should show some of their videos. Maybe the one of the jihadists slowly cutting off the heads of Russian soldiers even after they have surrendered. And discussing it while the poor soldier is laying there right in front of them……these savages only understand savagery….f’em
I just hope one of them was in the middle of their shadada….and tasted the piss of victory right before he died…..
but that’s just me…..
@21. I will do my best to answer your lead question since it is I who said that the video will get people killed. It is highly doubtful that the next IED detonator or suicide bomber will announce that his deadly deed is a direct result of the video. And it is unlikely that no one else–military or civilian–will be a fatal victim of terrorist attack in Afghanistan. My point–and belief– is that this video will directly lead to specific attacks in retribution which would otherwise not have occurred and that the video will assist in recruitment and motivation for additional killings. I am in no way saying that BUT FOR this video no more killings would occur. I am saying that some future killings are all but assured thanks to this video. I hope I am wrong.
@22 I understand and I defer to you, I’ve never been in battle, you know way more than I do about that…….I pray this never leads to one of ours being killed as well.
Luckily this is the least offensive vid I’ve ever seen…..
If the rolls were reversed, they’d be cutting off the heads of the Americans.
But, it doesn’t look professional…but it is funny as hell.
That’s the point. As stupid as this is, and by no means do I condone this behavior by saying so, it pales in comparison to videos of people getting their heads sawed off with a dull, rusty knife. It’ll just cause more outrage from the religion of outrage.
you know there’s a strong desire to do to them what they did to us. How would Somalis feel if we dragged their dead through the streets? How would the Taliban feel if we put their heads on a spike? If their prisoners were actually tortured (no waterboadring is not torture. You live with no long term ill effects). Hey here’s a thought let’s take a power drill to the knees of everyone at GITMO. . .
yes we are held to a higher standard, but its high time we learned that our enemy should not be held up as a shining example either.
Point raised over at Atlas Shrugs: we are constantly being told that the Taliban, et al are not really Muslim; that they do not represent Islam. So, if they aren’t Muslim, why the outrage by Muslims? If these bone-headed Jarheads had been pissing on dead Jews, the larger Muslim community would hail them as heroes.
I think their actions were stupid, and filming even more stupid, but we should to be asking the outraged to explain their outragedness at the desecration of these “non-Muslim” corpses.
If this is true. It is a bonehead act. I is all about knowing your enemy. If my enemy killed me and then pissed on me, or my buddy, I would not give shit. When I or my buddy is dead we could care less. In fact we would say that is not even me, (or my buddy) laying there in the mud anymore. It is just the equipment that helped me, or my buddy stand upright.
I or my buddy once we are dead are finally freed from that equipmnt.
But many people take a more traditional view. There is a differnce between fighting liberals and fighting conservatives who hold on to traditional values long after these values lost their relevance. Am I right or am I wrong?
“I understand the sentiment, but I don’t condone it…especially filming it and putting it on YouTube. That was a real bonehead play.” I saw this earlier and completely agree with your sentiments. If for no other reason then the effect this might have amongst the very locals we are attempting to win over. Most of them are illiterate as is, and tend to overreact poorly to any imagery. How fast will the Taliban or Al Qaeda’s PR(called cloud somthing or other) bend this or misrepresent this to their own ends.
6# “islamo-fascists” There is no such thing. There are jihadists or Islamics/ites and then Fascists. In no way related, just because they are both our enemies doesn’t mean they have any ideological ties.
“Nuke them. Finish it for good. They wanted total war. Time to give it to them.” I’m not unsympathetic but that’s not the mission our leaders have selected, take it up with them.
“Radical Islam can’t defeat the West, only the West itself can do that.” True, also irrelevent to the topic at hand.
Opinions, are like ass%^&, everyone has one. Is always the ones who have never been at the receiving end of a rifle the ones that cry for political correctness.Those who have shot another human being undersand this action. If you do not demonize your enemy, how the hell are you going to kill him? If you think he is someones son, father, brother, husband how are you going to do it? We are not psychopaths. You want to speak about morals and ethical behavior when you kill someone? If you pause and think philosophy in a firefight you will find yourself dead. Ingrain in your brain your enemy is evil above all, that your cause is just, and that is good to rid the world of the vermin.
Now, how stupid it is to film this is beyond my comprehension. Stupid move.
@30 – “If you do not demonize your enemy, how the hell are you going to kill him?”
I disagree. It is quite possible to carry out one’s mission without resorting to unprofessionalism and immaturity. I’m sure there are people who do need to trick themselves into believing the enemy is somehow not human…but that says something about the individual, not the enemy.
@31
Some people are blessed to be born without a consciousness, so they can go through life without thinking in the consequences of their actions.
And yes, I agree, it was stupid to do that and also record it. The enemy has always been demonized by propaganda, as long as humans and war have existed.
@30: I think you might have forgotten that between professional armies there is usually respect. I would site how the Waffen SS treated the British 1st Airborne Prisoners at Arnhem. Or the “Christmas Miracle” in 1914, or Numerous other occasions where compassion and Mercy was shown between professional soldiers. Hell even Hitler recieved some of that when spared by the British version of Audie Murphy
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/british-soldier-allegedly-spares-the-life-of-an-injured-adolf-hitler
Its when Armies are driven to extremes, or facing an enemy that is much like the one we face now, that the respect disappears. I would cite the Pacific war, the Japanese in China the Korean, and Vietnam Wars the Iran Iraq war and a few other notable exceptions.
How long can a professional Army (or Marine Corps) keep its composure when faced with an enemy that seeks not only your death but the desecration of your remains (and way of life)? How long before the desire to respond in kind over-rides professionalism? Apparently this video is your answer.
@ Doc:
Thank you for the clarity that you bring into the argument. Unfortunately, as you have also mentioned, these people are not professional soldiers I have a very strong opinion that is not PC and discussing it will take us far away from our topic.
And there is a psychological advantage to view your enemy as something other than human, it would be a PC lie to consider them worthy opponents. Chivalry and honor in battle, Von Clausevitz, for a more sensible time. You also forget the devastation that followed the use of gases in the trenches when nobody was prepared and expected such behavior. Or Operation Grief and Skorzeny during WW2. How long ago have we fought an enemy that plays by the rules?
War and its nature is inhumanity, we create rules and laws so we do not stare at the abyss for long and lose ourselves in it.
Deebow over at the Major League team has a post up about this that some should read.
@34: I’m all ears.
@35: link?
@ Doc
I truly believe there is no place in the world for these religious zealots and they should be hunted to extinction everywhere. A direct result from this absolute perspective would be a affirmation in their conviction to destroy us too thus total chaos will ensue. I believe, like the ancient greeks, that you can not be a citizen if you are not willing to defend the lifestyle you enjoy. There should not be a politician in capitol hill who has not served, it should be a requisite to hold any office in the land. I believe America was a better place when our sitting presidents were not only politicians but also former warriors (with the exception of Grant…)
@32 – Speaking for myself, not having a base need to engage in dehumanization doesn’t equal not having a conscience. I merely don’t see the value in the emotional expenditure.
We are fighting religious zealots [generally speaking], but your theoretical strategy would increase the number of our enemy to unbelievably untenable proportions.
McCain has weighed in on the subject now……
@36: Sorry Doc, I forgot to put in the link. My bad.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/01/the-nature-of-warriors.html#more
The link to Debows post for those that asked.
Oops….Sorry Old Trooper….didn’t intend to step on your toes, lol.
@42: Lol! No problemo. Great minds and all that.
I haven’t weighed in on this because I am of 2 minds about it. I understand that in war, no matter how high your stoop is, you have to lower yourself to your enemies level. the difference, as I see it, is that we realize this and once our enemy is vanquished, we don’t wallow down in the depths, but rather lift ourselves back up. Anyone that thinks that wars are fought clean and by the Marquis of Queensbury rules is kidding themselves. You can’t fight a war by being the intellectual better; save that for college campuses. I, also, don’t buy the excuse that it will get more people killed, or enrage the bad guys; they already are enraged and find any excuse to be that way. You can’t have intellectual conversations with rock farmers that are mostly illiterate to begin with and only get enraged by what others tell them to be enraged by.
That being said; I don’t agree that the video should have been uploaded to youtube. Save it for posterity and show it to your friends at a party if you feel the need, but leave it off the WWW.
My name is Lt. Aldo Raine and I’m putting together a special team, and I need me eight soldiers. Eight Jewish-American soldiers. Now, y’all might’ve heard rumors about the armada happening soon. Well, we’ll be leaving a little earlier. We’re gonna be dropped into France, dressed as civilians. And once we’re in enemy territory, as a bushwhackin’ guerrilla army, we’re gonna be doin’ one thing and one thing only… killin’ Nazis. Now, I don’t know about y’all, but I sure as hell didn’t come down from the goddamn Smoky Mountains, cross five thousand miles of water, fight my way through half of Sicily and jump out of a fuckin’ air-o-plane to teach the Nazis lessons in humanity. Nazi ain’t got no humanity. They’re the foot soldiers of a Jew-hatin’, mass murderin’ maniac and they need to be dee-stroyed. That’s why any and every every son of a bitch we find wearin’ a Nazi uniform, they’re gonna die. Now, I’m the direct descendant of the mountain man Jim Bridger. That means I got a little Injun in me. And our battle plan will be that of an Apache resistance. We will be cruel to the Germans, and through our cruelty they will know who we are. And they will find the evidence of our cruelty in the disemboweled, dismembered, and disfigured bodies of their brothers we leave behind us. And the German won’t not be able to help themselves but to imagine the cruelty their brothers endured at our hands, and our boot heels, and the edge of our knives. And the German will be sickened by us, and the German will talk about us, and the German will fear us. And when the German closes their eyes at night and they’re tortured by their subconscious for the evil they have done, it will be with thoughts of us they are tortured with. Sound good?
Very thought provoking I like it. Can an illiterate rock farmer be compared with a Nazi though?
Statement from General James Amos, Commandant of the Marine Corps, whom i’m sure trumps Brad Pitt in an acting role any day: “I have viewed an internet video that apparently depicts Marines desecrating several dead Taliban in Afghanistan. I want to be clear and unambiguous, the behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history. Accordingly, late yesterday I requested that the Naval Criminal Investigative Service pull together a team of their very best agents and immediately assign them responsibility to thoroughly investigate every aspect of the filmed event. Additionally, I am assigning a Marine General Officer and senior attorney, both with extensive combat experience, to head up an internal – Preliminary Inquiry – into the matter. Once the investigation and Preliminary Inquiry are complete and the facts have been determined, then the Marine Corps will take the appropriate next steps. Rest assured that the institution of the Marine Corps will not rest until the allegations and the events surrounding them have been resolved. We remain fully committed to upholding the Geneva Convention, the Laws of War, and our own core values.”
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
How does one outrage the followers of the religion of perpetual outrage?
And, how are these unlawfulcombatants not in uniform eligible for the “protections” of the Geneva Convention? Oh, that’s right, Bowie Bergdahl’s parents have been receiving regular postcards, according to the Geneva Convention, right? The Red Cross has made regular visits?
@45: Good question. Has anyone heard of AQ releasing a statement such as Gen. Amos did after the 4 contractors were disemboweled, burned, and hung up on posts over a bridge in Iraq? How about after the 2 soldiers from the 101st were found disemboweled with their junk stuck in their mouths? If there were such statements made by AQ or the Taliban, as the General made, I must have missed them.
Every time one of these statements is released, the enemy laughs, because they know that our leadership doesn’t have the stomach to fight as necessary to win.
I have often heard the statement “we’re better than that”. oh, really? We’re better than human? I must have missed that report, too. We’re not better than that. Does anyone here think that we were any better than the Nazis, when it came to atrocities on the battlefield? No, I’m not talking about the camps, but the battlefield, so keep on target here. I know of a couple of incidents right off the top and nothing was done to anyone, because it’s war. If pissing on a dead enemy is going to send us and our leadership over the top, then we might as well pack it in now, because we don’t have what it takes for war or victory.
While we wait, perhaps we could also anticipate the reports from the investigations from/about the occuturds into the release of body fluids on sidewalks, people, vehicles etc along with the explanation of why it is OK to commit general violence within those encampments.
Why is it an outrage, assuming it is true, that this video is posted, but similar events on public streets here at home are acceptable?
Draw a cartoon of Mohammed or start a BBQ with a Koran, tape it, post it online and see what happens. Basically, if these fuckin’ boneheads didnt videotape this shit, there would be nothing to discuss, right?