Petraeus warns that Koran burning is bad for the troops

Cut from the same cloth as the Phelps clan, just a different message. Fuck ’em.

Muslims get violent about everything percieved to be against allah, except

Throwing acid on Schoolgirls, Cutting off Noses and ears, killing 6 year olds for Being US Spies, Blowing up aything they can get.Cutting off a Professors hand for writing paper questioning Muhammeds Life.

Sorry my tolerance for Muslims feelings has run out.

Does anyone think if these Idiots dont burn the Koran that Mullah Omar will walk upt to a US patrol with Ice Cream for them?
That OBL will be offering free Pony Rides at FOB Salerno?

Exactly, Sean.

If we’re going to change our behavior to make our soldiers at less risk, why don’t we just ask the Taliban for their demands and then abide by them? No one was burning Korans pre-9/11/2001 and yet they hijacked planes and killed 3,000 of our countrymen. No one was burning Korans in 1996 and 1998 when Osama made his fatwas against the United States.

So where does this end? There are *plenty* of things that inflame Muslims and put not only our troops in danger, but also civilians in countries around the world where there are large Muslim populations who riot over the slightest offense to their delicate sensibilities. Are we to just ask the Taliban for their list of grievances, so as to know what not to do, in order to keep our troops safe?

There is a reason that Christians, Jews, Mormons, Scientologists and every other religious group does not get violent and go on murderous rampages whenever they have cause to be offended. Because the civilized world told them to get the f*** over themselves and stop being whiney babies.

We are doing the exact opposite with Muslims. As a result, we are emboldening them to continue their threats, so that they get their way.

When does this end?

I don’t get the reasoning that if my brother dies, because some Muslims were offended at their Koran being burned here in America, that I am to get pissed off at the Church, instead of at the lunatics who subscribe to a 7th Century death cult. The Koran burning would not have killed my brother. The ideology that justifies killing in response to being offended would have killed him.

I have to agree with Sean and Michael.

Now I don’t care for this group at all, indeed if you look at them closely, they are really nothing but a clone of Phelps and company with their twisted ideology.

But there’s also a part of me that is freaking SICK and TIRED of the world coddling the Islamists around the world. You know what, that American flag is pretty sacred to me, yet the Islamists and others have burned that loooong before 9-11 to spite America and Americans. But we don’t go around killing or threatening Muslims or immigrants from Muslim countries because of that hatred.

I remember how the South Park thing went down, and how they were intimidated.

In a way I couldn’t care a spit if they burned korans, and a part of me wants SOME entity to do it, just to show the Islamists around the world we are not afraid, and why the hell should there be double standards where we coddle to their sensitivities yet they don’t for anyone else. Enough is enough.

I suppose a subtle Cabernet will have to do for now…

“Koran burning, flag burning… barghhh, history just keeps repeating itself in terms of idiots believing in their “original” petty and quite fascistic symbolism meant to attract mindless sheep…”

Precisely; I won’t support this brand of simple-minded “action” in the same way I don’t support it when Matthis or Bobby does it from the opposite end of the spectrum. Symbolic burnings are the hallmark of idiots incapable of intelligent and rational analysis of their positions.

Actually, Scott, I would change your statement to, symbolic burnings make it easier for idiots incapable of intelligent and rational analysis of their positions.

Meaning, the only way you can make some people understand your own position is by engaging in ‘dialogue’ which makes it easier for the ‘other’ side to understand.

Those who hate America have always burned our flag, our symbols, etc. etc. Yet we don’t go around violently protesting and killing people for it. And no matter how sensible or rational we try to be, the radical Islamists seem to either not care or not understand.

You see, this is America. We have the right to burn the koran or any other symbols. It’s our freedom and right. It’s our country and our soil. Why should what people thousands of miles away say or do influence or intimidate us as to how we want to do things in OUR own soil? I may not agree with it, but that’s an American’s right to do so as he wishes, not the citizen of another country thousands of miles away.

And if burning the koran is the only way we can let others know that we will do as we wish and not be intimidated, then so be it. If we become intimidated by this, what next?

I wish that those of you who are upset at burning Korans would voice the same level of disgust at the actions Of every Muslim nation that prohibits importing the Christian Bible or any Christian literature,

Whenever their own customs agents find it, it is seized and literally thrown into a trash can, then either taken to the landfill or burned.

You can’t have this both ways. Either all religious texts should be protected everywhere, or back down off your soapboxes.

You all are a bunch of chicken little’s running around and enabling these scumbag muslims to demand yet some other form of censorship, some other control over our lives.

I say burn their damned Korans as an example of our freedoms, as a a warning to them to back the hell down from their demands, and a statement that we Americans will NOT be cowed by a bunch of third-world, dark-age mental midgets who want to turn the world back to a time of horror.

September 11th is a perfect day for reminding muslims that THEY are the enablers of terrorism because THEY tolerate it and refuse to stand up to those who do.

“I wish that those of you who are upset at burning Korans would voice the same level of disgust at the actions Of every Muslim nation that prohibits importing the Christian Bible or any Christian literature,” ========== I tend to agree with a comment left over at Blackfive, where a commenter asked where was the General’s outrage the past 9 years regarding every other action here in America that put our soldiers at risk. * Mass media undermining the war effort with their reporting * NYT giving away our National Security secrets * NYT publishing diagrams showing where our body armor was weak * Mass media reporting FALSE stories about Korans in toilets * Mass media reporting FALSE stories about torture at GITMO (and the Democrats repeating these FALSE stories on the floors of Congress for cheap political points against President Bush) * Harry Reid and the Democrat Party declaring the war “lost” * IVAW, CODE PINK, International A.N.S.W.E.R. etc holding massive “anti-war” rallies * CODE PINK crashing Congressional hearings to protest the war and try to smear paint on Condoleeza Rice Etc, etc etc… Not once did any General step up and say that the mass media, “anti-war” protesters or the Democrat Party were putting our troops in more danger, because they were giving aid and comfort to the enemy. But *now*, he comes out and makes a statement about a small group of churchgoers in a small town in Florida burning Korans? All the actions taken by the mass media, “anti-war” protesters and the Democrat Party did not warrant a scolding from GEN Petraeus, because apparently they did not put our troops in more danger, but Koran-burning by a small church will? ** (For the record, I don’t think it is the General’s place to scold any of the groups (mass media, “anti-war” protesters, Democrats, anti-Islam protesters). The military takes an oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution. Part of that Constitution is about freedom of the press and freedom to protest. So Petraeus should neither scold protesters — whether “anti-war” or anti-Islam — nor the mass… Read more »

I will be curious to see if there are threats / violent actions taken against Dove World Outreach Center itself, or if those that protest the Koran burning attack others. I will also be curious to see what the response will be from law enforcement / the government if DWOC is threatened / attacked for burning the Koran.

Jacobite, remember the discussion we had about the religious persecution / martyrdom feedback loop? The idea that you’re serving God when you’re being persecuted, so you set up circumstances that lead to persecution, so you know you’re serving God…this is a perfect example of that.

#25
Pinto, exactly, I really don’t have anything to add to that except that the very act of examining themselves and their personal motivations is by their own reckoning ‘sinful’ and therefore to be avoided, it’s a wonderfully self feeding and vicious mechanism enabling some of the most bizarre and reprehensible behavior.

#26
Dave, I agree we should all be able to express our American rights, even when such expression is extremely distasteful, that does not however mean such behavior is by extension ‘right’ or even marginally intelligent. Since I feel that the intentional pursuit of a course of action that will possibly put additional strain on an already heavily burdened fighting force contravenes the dictates of a polite society or even intelligence, I won’t hesitate to speak out in opposition to it, there by exercising my own rights under our Constitution. In my opinion the actions of the Dove World Outreach Center are both idiotic and hypocritical, and while I do believe they certainly have the right to go ahead and do it, I also feel others have the right to protest them in kind.

Hoping to send the Muslims a message? Good luck with that, wake me and let me know how that works out.

Above and beyond the Islamic/Christian battlefield, I feel it just plain wrong headed to burn books, of any kind. The only result that has ever had in this country is to embolden and strengthen the oppositions desire to see such literature which has from time to time come under attack, more publicly protected. The ‘moral majority’ has always been incredibly short sighted in this respect.

In reading my e-mail, newsletters, FOXNews, etc. just now; I read that from Obummer on down, even his left hand (?)Man(?), Charlie RINO Crist; all state that the whackos at that Gainseville Fla church “have the right” to burn the Qur’an. Has anyone here, or anywhere claimed that they don’t “have the right”? They have as much right to be dipsticks as the Westboro Baptist Church Phreaks. Having “the right” in no way assures that it is “right”. Having “the right” doesn’t mean that the act will be productive. Having “the right” is no excuse to be morally deficient, to be childish, to unnecessarily bring more harm to troops and others.
Kieth Olberdork, and the rest of you Politically correct anal orifices just don’t get it, and most likely never will.
Exercise your rights Gainesville dumbschitts.
Where has all the common sense gone???????????

Has anyone here, or anywhere claimed that they don’t “have the right”?
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The State Department called it “un-American“.

=====
State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley called a Florida church’s threat to burn copies of the Quran to mark the Sept. 11 attacks “un-American” and said the plan was “inconsistent with the values of religious tolerance and religious freedom.”
=====

I’d say that is the opposite of stating that they “have a right”.

And it’s amazing that when any non-Muslim religious group wants something, the Left crows about “separation of church and state!!!!!”. But when Muslims want something, the Left finds “religious tolerance” and “religious freedom”.

According to reports Iran is paying a $1000.00 bounty to any taliban who kills a american military member. What will motivate them more the money or burning the Koran. I don’t think burning the Koran will change anything. Just another way for the muslims to gain a little more influence over non muslims.

Here I go again, stepping outside to actually voice my opinion. Pastor Jones, and Fred Phelps to a much larger degree, dishonour the very memory of all those who sacrificed their lives to ensure the very rights and freedoms which they have chosen to flaunt in order to express their own bigotry and hatred. They, and their followers should be ashamed of themselves. Their actions are nothing but a blatant display of self-promotion and ignorance. It is clear that no one disputes their rights, but perhaps should question their “reason” (…the power of comprehending, inferring, or thinking, especially in orderly rational ways).

Hey, guess what!? We now also have to allow the Ground Zero Victory Mosque to be built in the heart of New York City, otherwise we risk not only the lives of our soldiers, but also the lives of American civilians. Imam Rauf on CNN: Moving The Mosque Could Get Us Killed ===== Rauf’s contention that we must accept the building of the mosque near Ground Zero because “moving it would embolden Islamic radicals, and in the Muslim world it would be considered an attack on Islam” is a threat. He seems to be saying that Americans better not fight this, or we’ll pay for our opposition to it by being attacked. That sounds like the same argument used against publishing a cartoon, or a book, or making a film exposing Islam’s violence. If you do it, you will die. Comedy Central took that kind of threat seriously by not showing criticism of Islam. ===== “What kind of logic? You need to be clearer on that point since not all systems of logic support your hypothesis.” I actually do not understand how you do not see the logic. Muslims threaten violence and get their way. Every single time. From Comedy Central to the Mohammad Cartoons to changing the name of Operation Infinite Justice to Operation Enduring Freedom to PSAs for the TV show ’24’ and now to having the top General of the largest Military in the world tell his countrymen to not do anything to insult Islam. Meanwhile, no such respect is given to any other religion — not Christianity, not Judaism, not Mormonism, not Scientology, etc. These religions and their followers are insulted and offended in every way every single day… in the mass media, by politicians, in songs, in TV shows, in movies, in magazines, in books. So, how do you look at this and not logically determine that in order to get respect for your religion and have people not offend your religion, you must threaten violence and murder? Islam is the only religion where its adherents threaten violence and murder when they are offended and… Read more »

Ace — and Christopher Hitchens — makes my point for me as well:
==========
On that point — this very good (as usual) essay by Christopher Hitchens. There he notes we have demanded that every other religion be “domesticated,” which, dogged metaphor aside, means that we have demanded that other religions fall into compliance with civil law — even where (as with Christian Science) the illegal aspect of the religion is a truly important part of the religion.

And yet we don’t similarly insist on this with Islam. Islam is apparently a special religion in that it trumps civil law.

Again, another badge of Islam’s supremacy over other religions — and all governments — which is precisely what they’re killing for.

Other people have remarked upon the perverse incentives here: If Christians want their faith taken seriously, and respected by institutions and the government, apparently they’ll just have to start bombing and beheading and they’ll have that.

Furthermore, we continue to encourage Islamist killers. Every time they kill, what message does the nation and its communicative institutions parrot over and over?

1) Islam is a religion of peace.

2) Islam is one of the world’s “great religions.”

3) The overwhelming majority of Islam’s faithful are good, pious people.

Every time they murder in the name of Allah, then, we all collectively begin shouting how fucking wonderful Allah is.

Is it any surprise they continue to murder us then? They kill us, and we then proselytize on their behalf.

As for Muslim extremists getting their way by threatening violence, can you please give me one example, just one, where they have in fact achieved that here in this country? Just one please.
==========
Have you not read any of my comments? I gave plenty of examples of Muslims getting their way, and being put on a completely different level than Christians, Jews, Mormons, or followers of any other religion.

There are plenty of examples, but the ’24’ PSAs, the Comedy Central censorship and the Mohammad Cartoon censorship are the three most prominent. And of course the most recent examples are the Ground Zero Mosque and the Koran-burning. Muslims threaten violence and everyone from President Obama to GEN Petraeus chimes in to tell us to acquiesce to their threats.

#43 and #44

Neither of you has supported Mike’s original assertion, ‘Muslims threaten violence and get their way’. So in as much as the evidence is lacking, yes, his statement still stands as unsubstantiated and incorrect.

Using our own established systems to gain their ends is not the same as achieving an objective by threat or actual violence. What you are engaged in is ‘hyperbole’, and as long as you engage in it you allow the Islamic special interests to do end runs around you all day. Kind of how the book burning drags everyone’s eyes off of serious matters and focuses them on the hyperbolic event.

I asked for instances specifically concerning the hyperbolic statement that the muzzies get their way by violent means here, they don’t, and neither of you has given any. Nor have either of you given me any evidence that the muzzies are really being treated much different here than any other religion, in fact you both sidestepped my examples. Want another example that the religious right frequently gets their way the same as any other special interest? How about the obvious use of public funding for ‘Christian’ schools here in Arizona, and across the US?

Are you daft, or do you jusy enjoy playing stupid?

Here, I’ll make it simple for you:

Stupid fanatic preacher threatens to burn holy book of those who use it as justification for attacking and killing us.

Liberal media gives massive amounts of coverage to the aforementioned jackass.

Extremists the world over see media coverage.

General who shouldn’t open his mouth says, “Please don’t do that, they’ll terrorize more.”

Extremists say, “Yeah! They’re scared we’ll step it up so we have control of the sitchy-ayshun! Go us!”

Fanatical preachuh man has now been asked to curtail his constitutional rights in order to not impede on the feewings of extremists out of fear.

The end.

“Neither of you has supported Mike’s original assertion, ‘Muslims threaten violence and get their way’. So in as much as the evidence is lacking, yes, his statement still stands as unsubstantiated and incorrect.” Are you that dense? We haven’t supported my assertion? Mohammad Cartoons not printed out of fear, ’24’ giving PSAs out of fear, Comedy Central censoring its shows out of fear. Those all support my assertion. If you’re going to ignore all that, well, then there’s nothing further I can say to prove my point. Hell, even Christopher Hitchens understands my point: ===== We may have to put up with the Rage Boys of the world, but we ought not to do their work for them, and we must not cry before we have been hurt. In front of me is a copy of this week’s Economist, which states that Rushdie’s 1989 death warrant was “punishment for the book’s unflattering depiction of the Prophet Muhammad.” There is no direct depiction of the prophet in this work of fiction, and the reverie about his many wives occurs in the dream of a madman. Nobody in Ayatollah Khomeini’s circle could possibly have read the book for him before he issued a fatwah, which made it dangerous to possess. Yet on that occasion, the bookstore chains of America pulled The Satanic Verses from their shelves, just as Borders shamefully pulled Free Inquiry (a magazine for which I write) after it reproduced the Danish cartoons. Rage Boy keenly looks forward to anger, while we worriedly anticipate trouble, and fret about etiquette, and prepare the next retreat. If taken to its logical conclusion, this would mean living at the pleasure of Rage Boy, and that I am not prepared to do. ===== Also, what ROS said. And, I reiterate my “the US does not negotiate with terrorists” point. GEN Petreaus has ended that policy by the statement he made. The terrorists have demanded that we give up our right to insult Islam. Instead of telling them to pound sand and that the United States does not give up its rights to appease Muslims,… Read more »