Small and Strange World this is.
I found out that one of the people that I went to Basic training at Fort Lenard Wood is/was part of the IVAW. I had found here back in 2007 when we had the exact same video about our Basic on MySpace. She was part of the 82d as a truck Driver. She went to Iraq in December 2006 at FOB Summerall with the Easy Company 1-505th, 3rd Battalion, 82nd Airborne Division. She stayed there until about May of 2007 when she was put on Rear Detachment for medical reasons. Later she gets outs and joins the IVAW’s 53 Chapter in Las Vegas. But this is were it starts to get interesting.
She made a post on June 18, 2008 in the IVAW members speak out that could be seen in two ways. See for yourself.
So this is the email I recieved today on Myspace from A guy that was in the Army back in the 90’s and has never deployed….
“I’m deleting you from my friends list. I don’t dislike you, but I don’t need rubbish like this video being brought to my attention. It’s unfortunate you are so naive, even after all you have seen. It seems, after all, that some are unteachable.”
So funny how he calls me “unteachable” yet he is the one who has never been to Iraq and doesn’t know anything other than what is in the news. He seems to think he knows so much about what is going on over there. Give me a break, he is just ignorant like a lot of Americans that think this War is for the better. I wish there was some kind of a program like a foreign exchange type deal where we can send these ignorant people to Iraq so they can see first hand what is exactly going on. My Own husband is on the fence on this subject he thinks that the war was started on lies which we all know it was. Yet he isn’t sure if we should leave yet or not….Now I love my husband but he was a 25 F and he spent a year in Iraq stuck on a Fob he wasn’t going out and doing missions in the city so he never saw the things most of us saw and I think that is why he thinks the way he does. I am trying to get it across to him that we need to end this occupation, maybe with some time he will be with me on this. If not oh well. I just pray that Iraq doesn’t end up like Kuwait that is now a duty station. If they ever turn Iraq into a duty station I am moving to Canada!
Kinda takes it’s own perspective when considering the people in IVAW who have never seen Iraq. But this is the part that is confusing to me. In her blog she is very vocal about her dislike of the Army and her excitement about getting out with her new Husband. Not to mention that she was against the Iraq War in a comment she left to Casey Porter in August 31st of 2008.
Thanks for the Add!! I Love your videos and the way you speak out against the occupation! IVAW all the way!
So it is surprising that when I looked her up on AKO that it showed her being in the Army Reserves for Nevada. Her Blog also confirmed that her and her husband had re-enlisted in November of 2008.
I am back in the Army reserves and that is going well, everyone in my unit is really nice. Nate joined to hahaha he couldn’t stay away. So I am changing my MOS from 88M truck driver to 42A Human resource spc….thank god because I don’t wanna drive anymore damn trucks lol.
I just thought it odd considering that with the IVAW is vocal about supporting troops that do not want to deploy, why would you join the Army reserves? I mean the IVAW’s Las Vegas is using your photo as a poster picture for it’s MySpace page. The second thing is how was she able to get back in the Military if she was Med-Boardedout for a heart condition? I just do not get it.
What a strange World.
Category: Iraq Veterans Against the War, Terror War
I wouldn’t give it anymore thought, these people are nutty. Maybe they ran out of money.
My question. Who the fuck cares?
She seems like many of the Prior Service applicants we get; couldn’t wait to get out, then realized the grass isn’t always greener. We get plenty of people who took a med board or who had a bad experience (UCMJ, etc) and want to get back in. It is up to them to prove their medical condition no longer exists (though for some reason some feel like it is the recruiter’s job) and some will never be afforded another opportunity to serve. Had a 20-year-old with an RE-4 from her year or so of service at age 17-18.
Maybe joining the Reserves makes her feel more credible, or maybe she was not satisfied with being referred to as PV2 the rest of her life. The small amount of money and education benefits come to mind as well.
“I just thought it odd considering that with the IVAW is vocal about supporting troops that do not want to deploy, why would you join the Army reserves?”
She’s going to continue to draw a paycheck until the moment she’s called to do her job in the combat zone (which, ultimately is the “real” job of any soldier) and then she’ll refuse orders and expect to be called a hero for it.
These people really burn my ass. Her comment that someone who hasn’t been to Iraq shouldn’t talk…just UNBELIEVABLE. How many of her fellow IVAW members have been to Iraq? Probably less than half. Certainly not co-chair Adrienne Kinne, Director Matthis Chiroux (who joined the army “during a period of homelessness”!), and Director Trey Kidlinger.
I got out of the Army and went to college in 2004. I was one of a handful of OIF veterans on campus. Nearly everyone I met at college–students and professors alike–had an opinion about the war, almost all of which was negative. As much as I disagreed with them, I never told them to shut up unless they’d been there. I just tried to persuade them with facts and logic. This was particularly difficult with professors, because you know…they already know everything. That’s why they’re professors. In my entire four years in college, I don’t think I ever met a profesor who had served, either in peacetime or war. But they all thought they were great military strategists.
I wonder, would this chick tell people who agree with her to shut up unless they’ve been there? Or does that only apply to people who disagree with her?
“She stayed there until about May of 2007 when she was put on Rear Detachment for medical reasons.”
And then she rejoined the reserves. Sounds about right.
There sure are a lot of brokedick nineteen year olds in the army. There were when I was in, both in peacetime and in war. My guess is that she rejoined the reserves after her med board because there never was anything wrong with her in the first place, she was just being a shitbag malingerer.
Just a guess.
While I would agree that having BTDT, so to speak, does give one a different perspective, it doesn’t disqualify anyone who HASN’T been there from expressing facts and opinions about it. Case in point–I take enough shit from ya’ll about being a bubblehead, but I never tell you that you can’t talk about it because you never were one.
Now, having said that, if you’re discharged via Med Board for any “permanent” sort of condition (heart being high on that list), you would think that would prevent one from EVER reenlisting in any branch, any program. I’m also curious as to how her chain of command feels about her IVAW involvement. Not something her First Sergeant or CSM would be real happy to see, I would gather.
As I read this at 6:45 AM, I think forward to this afternoon when my fellow Swamp RANGERS and I will attend the annual 6th RANGER Training Bn., Wives Swamp Walk.
These RANGER WIVES and Swamp RANGER wives, have more guts than any of the Idiotic Vermin AND Wankers.
Now for my morning 5 mile run. You other 70 year olds come on out and run with me.
HOOAH!!!!!!!!
IVAW also supports its members who DO deploy. I re-enlisted as a member of IVAW and so did many others who believed in the Army, just not the war. The two are not mutually exclusive.
“IVAW also supports its members who DO deploy”
How?
Are you sure this girl actually was med board? Sounds more like she got pregnant, came home early when it was discovered, and took the chapter to get out. Then later on she went back in. This isn’t meant to be sexist, but it does explain the timeline if one assumes she wasn’t a med board.
Addendum… Just glanced at her myspace page and it appears the timeline does fit for her to have not only gotten pregnant while deployed but she also received a “gay ass art 15.”
so med board my ass… That’s called a chapter for pregnancy, not med board and I’m calling shenanigans.
Addendum clarification: art 15 is what they often give to people who break the no sex rule and get pregnant. That’s why she claims to have been demoted.
IVAW has at least 1 soldier that I can think of off of the top of my head that recently deployed. I didn’t see anyone tell him that if he didn’t deploy, he would be disowned. In fact, he was told quite the opposite- that whatever he decided to do, he was 100% supported. It’s not always a bunch of crazy nuts as you guys seem to think it is.
Recall last comments… While I may be correct I looked a bit more and now am not as sure. Although I can chalk it up to the low level of credibility for these people, shame on me for making the accusation without thorough research.
From what IVAW members post, they do seem like a bunch of self-absorbed, whining A-Holes. Sounds like she wanted the extra money and being able to have a self-righteous attitude when protesting for IVAW as a Reservist.
Army Sergeant, have you deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan yet? If not, how does an active duty service member get out of deploying to a war zone(after 9 years) when so many of us that are retired, IRR, Reserve or Guard have been activated to serve a tour(s) in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Perhaps it is not “getting out of it” that kept Army Sergeant from deploying. I know more than one person on AD who has yet to deploy….and most of them joined in 2001 like I did. In fact, when I was deploying to Iraq, one of my old friends from AD tried to volunteer to go with the same unit as me and was basically turned down. And when I was still on AD, both me and a friend who worked with me at Walter Reed volunteered to go (because at that point I thought I would go for sure). And of course, they didn’t send either one of us when the next unit asked for a profised individual. It wasn’t until I got off of AD that I was called for deployment and activated off of IRR. The system is kinda F-ed up. I don’t know how they keep track of it and decide who comes down on orders, but it is definitely backwards.
Anon:
For one, I’m not complaining about being activated from retirement. The Marine Corps in 2004 asked for retirees that were willing to be recalled to submit their names which many of us did. When returning from Iraq in 2006, the new Commandant, General Conway tasked that all active duty Marines would serve their time in Iraq/Afghanistan or don’t bother trying to reenlist. Now that’s a warfighter.
So IVAW supports self-induced casualties? That sure is one way to support the troops. I wonder if any of her “friends” in Iraq got injured or killed while she was home waiting to get chaptered? What a selfish little c*#t. Irresponsible and abandons her friends in the middle of the fight. Perfect example of a blue-falcon.
AS said: “IVAW also supports its members who DO deploy. I re-enlisted as a member of IVAW and so did many others who believed in the Army, just not the war. The two are not mutually exclusive.
What kind of discombobulated fucked up thinking is that?? Let me see if I get this right; you say you believe in the Army but not the war? What the fuck is the mission of the military if not to fight wars at the discretion of the civilian leadership? Either you and I served in different Armies, or yours is based in an alternate universe.
I swear you’re cheese is slipping off the cracker faster than I thought it would.
Most of taday’s anti-war crowd are much like those in the 60s. They are either cowards or marxists. The objective is to demoralize the troops and create negativity about the war.
Of course IVAW supports AD Soldiers. You just don’t know the vocablary.
Courage to Resist = Work issues through proper COC channels
Deployment Protest = Support ceremony
Flag Burning = Patriotic Support
War Crimes = God bless our troops
By making these simple substitutions you too can understand and see how your local IVAW chapter is supporting you the AD Soldier.
Wow, AS. That is the most hypocritical thing I have ever seen.
Against war, but re-enlist? Why would you want to work for an “organization” that might make you deploy to a war zone? WTF, really?
So,um, are you trying to reach Joan-of-Arc status or what?
Once again, the judgement of you all on TAH knows no bounds….it is actually kind of scary to see that people can be this judgmental.
At least we put our names to our words. And based on the fact that many of us have in fact, “walked the walk,” so to speak, yeah, it kinda follows that we’d have an opinion on someone who bitches and moans but games the system to their benefit anyway.
Anon, I’m going to tell you the same thing I tell my grandchildren. Life is not fair and as much as you don’t want to be judged that is the way of life, so get over it.
Trying to respond to lots at once,
IVAW has supported its members that deployed by (and these are just the instances I personally know of):
helping to take care of their families
sending care packages, letters, etc, messaging and checking in and making sure they were doing okay
Provided advice and a contact to help with any issue.
Helped our members who wanted to deploy do what they needed to do to be able to deploy.
The mission of the Army, as I see it, is to defend the nation and our way of life. If a war serves neither, I strongly encourage our civilian leadership not to engage in it. But because we’re engaging in the wrong wars doesn’t mean no one needs to defend the Nation.
Also, there’s a big difference between “against war” and “against THIS war”. Not every IVAW member is a CO.
Anonymous,
Perhaps you could explain to us what we do not understand.
IVAW publishes its strategy which includes the following tenants.
1.Support outreach to active duty troops
We need funds to train active duty leaders, and we need supporters who live near military installations to support the growing GI resistance to this war
2.Support service members who are refusing to fight
We need funds to train active duty leaders, and we need supporters who live near military installations to support the growing GI resistance to this war
3.Support Truth In Recruiting
IVAW members are telling the truth about military service to young people across this country. They are speaking in schools, standing watch at recruiting stations, and debating the war on college campuses.
We can only base IVAW on its published strategy and actions of its board of directors. These tenants are counterintuitive to service in the Armed Forces and border on violating UCMJ based on how a member decides to “resist”.
This is why we don’t understand someone continuing to reap the benefits of being in the military while being a member of an organization that wishes to undermine the military.
If you can explain to me how as a member of both organizations, you decide which one to support on a given decision then I have no problem with you being in both.
“it is actually kind of scary to see that people can be this judgmental.”
First time on the internet, I take it.
Army Sergeant,
All of the things that you mention are admirable and what a true Veteran’s organization should do.
However, I can not find a single mention of care packages or help to deploy on the IVAW website. Instead it chooses to highlight in big letters it’s work with resisters, the Gaza, boycotting the G20, and immigrant rights.
I just feel if you want to have a bigger impact and actually help veterans there are much better organizations to support than IVAW.
It is obvious that you are passionate and want to help and I’m sure they would gladly have your support.
Army Sgt is the typical p.o.s. Soldier who is taking up a spot that could be filled by someone who loves this country for more then a paycheck.
She’s simply there because she’s probably not qualified to work a real job, and as a woman in the military she can get away with being substandard since anyone questioning her ability would be called sexist or she’d say was harassing.
Yes, AS, how have you managed to stay in so long without being deployed?
AS, why are they the wrong wars and have you deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan in the almost 9 years that we have been at war? You are active duty Army, correct?
So adding a tenet supporting the Hamas government in Gaza supports our troops how, exactly? Burning US flags helps, how? Seeking lawyers who solely encourage “resistance” does what exactly?
AS,
What’s the old addage “If you lie down with dogs, you will get fleas.”
There may be some left in IVAW who oppoes THIS war, but there are one too many Communists/Opportunistic gangsters/Bezmenov’s kids in IVAW for it to be taken seriously anymore.
That and shouldn’t an organization calling itself Iraq Veterans Against the War be comprised of mostly Iraq veterans.
AS
Sorry, but you don’t get to choose when, or where the Civilians decide to defend the Country…Sure you can be for or against something, but the bottom line is you become a traitor to your comrades in arms when espousing your bullshit to support the resistors as an Active duty soldier. I think your priorities need a shake up.
You want to be a vigilante while your friends burn flags and shit? Do the right thing and get out. Do ETS and then you won’t be buddy fucking those on the front lines with your association at IVAW.
The troops on the ground are your first priority not the people who act like idiots and hypocrites at every turn. You are still a hypocrite. And how you look at yourself in the mirror every day without RCG’s and thinking you are doing something admirable is beyond me.
Like someone said lie down with dogs, get fleas.
AS in #27: I just took a look see through my contract and for the life of me; I can’t find that clause where it says I got to pick and choose exactly which deployment I would be willing to go on based on my own decision on whether it was the “right war”. Wait, let me check, again……..nope, still can’t find it anywhere. I didn’t see anything about stop loss, either. The only thing I saw was the part that says the gummint, in the form of the US Army owns your ass for x amount of time which is broken up between active and IRR time and can be called back during the IRR period, whenever they think they need you. That’s pretty self-explanatory to me, so I don’t know why anyone else has such a hard time understanding that, especially an NCO. I guess the quality of jr. NCO’s has declined since I was in.
“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” ~Attributed to Benjamin Franklin
You guys seem to think that speaking out makes you a shitbag or unpatriotic. I think it is exactly the opposite. You guys are what Nietzsche would call slaves to morality.
#37 Anonymous:
Read Franklin’s works a little more, and I think you will see that you’ve misused that quote.
Read a little more of Nietzsche, and I think you will be embarrassed that you quoted him at all.
“You guys seem to think that speaking out makes you a shitbag or unpatriotic. I think it is exactly the opposite.”
That’s kind of vague, no? All one need to do to be an upstanding patriot is “speak out”? Methinks you apply the standard for patriotism and virtue too liberally.
When Matthis intentionally misleads audiences by referring to six days in Afghanistan as a deployment, that’s dishonest.
When Berggren attempts to claim PTSD despite having never witnessed a single traumatic event, that’s dishonest.
When people who have never deployed take advantage of public misunderstanding and call themselves “Iraq Veterans” that’s dishonest.
When IVAW puts out fliers with alarmist, uncited and misleading statistics such as “5.6% of people who enter the GI Montgomery Bill use all the money available to them” or “75% of Blacks and 67% of Latinos report experiencing racial prejudice in the service” that’s dishonest.
When one of their members (Jon Turner) claims to have killed an innocent man for no reason in Iraq, and IVAW lets it slide, that’s hypocritical.
When Matthis implies that every service member is a victim, that’s ridiculous and insulting, just as it is when he implies rape is the norm.
When Bobby Whittenberg pisses and moans about IVAW’s tactics and spews a lot of hot air about revolution and radical action, and then goes right back to doing exactly the same thing he always had when he was a member, that’s hypocritical.
When IVAW lets 9/11 truthers who saw smoke from the Pentagon use the official website to pretend they are therefore experts on 9/11 and it really was an inside job, that’s ridiculous.
When liars like Rick Strandlof and Jesse Macbeth are given a voice by IVAW, that’s ridiculous.
This band of idiots has had chance after chance, and over and over they have proven they are undeserving of any serious consideration.
And if dissent alone is patriotic, then all hail the unabashed patriotism of those who assert Obama is a secret Muslim hellbent on destroying the Union.
I am not embarrassed that I used Nietzsche. The idea of master versus slave morality is an important one– one that they teach in Philosophy and Ethics classes. But I’m sure you old men here on TAH will just be mad to hear that the educational system isn’t teaching us to be subservient to the good ol’ US of A. For some reason, your generation is all about the “shut up and shit down” mentality.
Oops, meant to say “sit down.”
“But I’m sure you old men here on TAH will just be mad to hear that the educational system isn’t teaching us to be subservient to the good ol’ US of A.”
I’m 28. Sporkmaster is 26, I believe. The 5 years of college and grad school I have under my belt since my discharge from active duty has enhanced rather than diminished my low tolerance for hippie bullshit.
Being opposed to the breed of lazy misleading dialogue espoused by IVAW members is not necessarily “subservience” to anything. Someone as highly educated in philosophy and ethics as yourself should certainly be able to avoid asserting such false dichotomies. Perhaps you need to study more.
#42 Anonymous:
Your educational system has done you a disservice, if you have been taught that you are not both master and slave of something. You also are free to choose both your mastery and your slavery. Choose as you will.
We have.
I’m 43 but “Middle Aged Tanker” didn’t have the same ring to it……. Actually, the “Old Tanker” means something else…
Ethics class….waaayy back when I was in school, ethics meant telling the truth and treating people the way you wanted to be treated (that old golden rule thing) Pity this seems to be lost on some people…
Sorry, Old Tanker. Ethics no longer follows the “Golden Rule” standard. It is both situational and relativistic. That is why Anonymous brought it up. It’s the bedrock for his reasoning.
Ethics is a little bit more involved than that. For example, utilitarians believe torture would be morally permissable because it is done for the greater good. Emphasis is placed on the greater good. Thats not exactly following the golden rule. Deontologists believe pretty much the opposite. They place emphasis more on the individual action, as opposed to the potential consequences of said action. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there incapable of following the golden rule….a real pity considering that we think of it as a kindergarten type of concept. Thats not a dig at anyone, just putting in my 2 cents about life in general.
Let me ask you this, if one disliked the military so much to include the Iraq. War, why would said person rejoin knowing that they can be sent back there. I am 31 for the records.
Oh, my bad, somewhere I got it in my head that you were 26. You look younger, at least.
I don’t know that I could venture a guess as to what said person was thinking. I only served one enlistment and then when I was called off of IRR, I answered the call and went. No reenlistments for me! I can say that the vast majority of the people I have met during my time in the military were against the wars, but little to none of them actually joined an anti-war organization.