Pam Geller and the Dallas shooting

| May 6, 2015

Today, Time Magazine published a response from Pam Geller, whose organization sponsored the cartoon contest in Dallas that attracted two jihadists, to her critics;

So, why are some people blaming me? They’re saying: “Well, she provoked them! She got what she deserved!” They don’t remember, or care to remember, that as the jihadis were killing the Muhammad cartoonists in Paris, their friend and accomplice was murdering Jews in a nearby kosher supermarket. Were the Jews asking for it? Did they “bait” the jihadis? Were they “provoking” them?

Are the Jews responsible for the Nazis? Are the Christians in the Middle East responsible for being persecuted by Muslims?

Drawing Muhammad offends Islamic jihadists? So does being Jewish. How much accommodation of any kind should we give to murderous savagery? To kowtow to violent intimidation will only encourage more of it.

Now, let me say up front that I wouldn’t draw any cartoons of Muhammad, nor would I attend an event which has that activity as it’s focus. Then again, I wouldn’t attend a similar event related to a similar activity involving Jesus, Buddha, or any other religious figure. But, that’s just me. I don’t oppose your attendance or any number of your friends, however. I respect everyone’s beliefs, religious and otherwise.

If you warned me about stepping on a crack in the sidewalk, or walking under a ladder, I’d thank you and avoid doing that, not out of fear, but out of respect for your beliefs.

To me, there are too many other things that I can be vocal about.

The other day, someone wrote in our comments that this wasn’t a First Amendment issue because the government didn’t attempt to silence Geller’s group, but it is, because every terrorist attack is meant to make a political point – to influence government policy. More than a few critics both inside and outside of the US are urging the US government to take action to prevent more cartoon-drawings of the Prophet. That would interfere in our exercise of the First Amendment.

According to the Associated Press, even the Council on American and Islamic Relations, an organization I usually have no use for, condemned the violence, although I wouldn’t use their language;

The Council on American-Islamic Relations said in a statement Monday that a violent response is more insulting to the Muslim faith than any cartoon. The council said “bigoted speech” can’t be an excuse for violence.

Leaders emphasized the American Muslim community’s support for open speech and condemned acts of terror.

The one belief that I can’t support is the one from that part of the world who thinks that everything carries a death penalty. I don’t agree with the gay lifestyle, but I can’t support throwing a gay person off of a building and then stoning them. I don’t like people burning or walking on the US flag, but I wouldn’t advocate shooting everyone at an event that focused on doing that particularly provocative activity, either. While I agree that they probably deserve some sort of punishment, whoever is administering that punishment should probably stop short of physical harm or death.

Yes, Pam Geller provoked a reaction from the two jihadists, along with millions of other American Muslims, and that was her intent from the moment she conceived the notion, but neither she nor her acolytes deserved to die for it. We should also remember that millions of US Muslims didn’t climb in their cars and drive to Dallas to kill the folks at the provocative contest.

I intentionally provoke people every day, and although there are some who pray for my untimely death, they don’t act on those desires, mostly because they know that it would be a difficult endeavor, and that’s the message that the police officer in Dallas sent to jihadists when he sent the two to their reward with his .45 caliber Glock.

Of course, all of this hand wringing about Pam Geller’s contest is diluting the intent of that message.

Category: Crime

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Herbert J Messkit

Civil rights are like muscles. They need to be exercised or they atrophy. I think her main point is that we should not cave in to anyone trying to impose blasphemy laws or sharia rules on us.

OldSoldier54

Exactly.

2/17 Air Cav

The problem is the murderous Muslim bastards, not Geller. I just can’t get there from here. Was the world a placid and tranquil place before she staged the counter protest? Were Muslims the world over calling it quits? Had ISIS disbanded? Did she provoke in them a return to violence? Or did she do what she had a legal right to do, only to have two would-be killers attempt to terrorize her and her supporters into silence? I really didn’t care one way or the other about Geller and her counter protest. Quite frankly, I didn’t know much about it–until two SOBs decided she and others had to die for a silly and irreverent contest. Now, I support Geller against the binky-chewers who are afraid that she has stoked the fires of terrorism. The fire didn’t need stoking. It’s already a raging inferno. If I were ISIS, I would certainly blame the next few acts of terrorism on her, knowing that there are millions of Americans who will buy it and swell the appeasers’ ranks.

Hondo

“I’ll take, ‘Did what she had a legal right to do’ for $500, Alex.”

Thunderstixx

Again, I take door #3.
Behind it is a classic bait and switch operation…
Nice shootin’ BTW.

B Woodman

“Or did she do what she had a legal right to do,. . ”

Scratch “legal” and replace with “inalienable, God given, natural law”.
“Legal” implies a man-made privilege that can be granted and revoked at will, on a whim.

UpNorth

▲▲▲▲ Like ▲▲▲▲

Your Creepy Uncle

God Damn Skippy….

valerie

I agree she has the right to do this. I think it is only fair to point out that her argument is not with Mohammed. Mohammed died a long time ago, and he’s not participating in any arguments. Her argument is with a subgroup of Mohammed’s followers, and I personally think it is to everybody’s benefit if she sharpens her aim.

Nobody is capable of insulting Mohammed as thoroughly as those who commit atrocities, and then claim that they did it in his name. It is only fair to point that out.

Dave Hardin

I find it outrageous that anyone would make fun of a guy that climbed on a winged horse with a human head and flew into the heavens. I mean we should all follow our hearts even if our heart falls for a pre-teenage girl. That’s cool, I guess.

If drawing a picture of Bronze Age War Lord who had telepathic superpowers to communicate with some invisible guy named Al is offensive, well, then we shouldn’t do that.

I think we should adopt some of his recruiting policies. If you join the military and decide to get out for any reason, the penalty should be death. It seemed to work for Mo and then we wouldn’t have all these aging Veterans festering around.

I believe we are too quick to make fun the little seizure prone illiterate goat fucker.

But, thats just me. I would never jump on cracks.

Semper Fi.

Yef

“If drawing a picture of Bronze Age War Lord who had telepathic superpowers to communicate with some invisible guy named Al is offensive, well, then we shouldn’t do that. ”

Whoa, this part of your post blew me away. For a moment I thought you were referring to an AI, until I realized you said Al as in alpha lima.

Had you said AI, that would have make you a technologist and perhaps a supporter of Artificial Intelligence Design as a creation theory, and perhaps even a supporter of the Simulation Argument.

All these are very fascinating arguments, just not well anchored in reality, in my humble opinion.

A couple links for the technologists and Singularitarians here at TAH:

http://singularityhub.com/

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/12/17/proof-of-the-simulation-argument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

Dave Hardin

Anchor…..I don’t need no stinking anchor!

Hondo

Of course you do, DH. The globe wouldn’t look the same without it. (smile)

Dave Hardin

Once again, I STAND CORRECTED !

Thankx HONDO (where ever you are)

Poetrooper

You know, Dave, you just might have a very bright future with the Veterans Administration. Imagine that whole vast organization with no veterans to care for.

Nah, the’d probably still have waiting lists…

Dave Hardin

That is not a bad idea. I dont need real veterans, I will use the virtual veterans that are hidden in the VA’s statistics for things.

The WWP model seems successful, I will use their virtual services to provide for my virtual veterans.

It is all really about making ‘The American People’ feel like something is being done.

Nah, I don’t want to work that hard. I will just kick back here and bask in all this hope and change my fellow Americans have provided for me.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Even if her intent was to provoke some extremist into action so what? Bigoted speech is a right under the constitution, hate speech is allowed. In fact protecting the speech we hate is exactly what we all should be doing because it’s easy as hell to support speech you like and hard as hell to support the right of speech you hate to exist. Burning the flag is another area where people have that right, so what is someone is provoked by that act. If they can’t control their actions upon seeing a flag on fire perhaps they need to be jailed as a danger to society. You have NO right to NOT be offended by the words or artwork of someone else. If you are offended the onus is on you to abide by the law. One man’s hate speech is another man’s free expression of viewpoint and should be respected by everyone who claims to be a true American. There’s a lot of shit that I don’t care for in any way, shape, or form but I recognize that I don’t get to decide for anyone but me what is an acceptable viewpoint or free expression. A great many other Americans seem lost to that concept which is why so many of our rights are in danger. Everyone wants their rights in this country while a great many would deny others rights in the process. I don’t know Geller, I don’t know if she’s an asshole or someone with a genuine interest in cartoon mockery of religion. None of that matters as she has the right to be an asshole who wants to test the limits of muslim tolerance, muslims can consciously choose how to act. I think we’ve seen how they choose to act and some of them can’t control themselves. That two of the latter are dead is a great outcome. If more of those who can control themselves start talking about what tolerance actually means perhaps they will come to something resembling peace in the ME. I’m not holding my breath and I’m sure as… Read more »

Dave Hardin

Sure, you can write what you want about religion. You have that right. If you draw a picture, you better watch your ass.

You just see the bad in everything. There is good in all people.

“Women make up one half of society. Our society will remain backward and in chains unless its women are liberated, enlightened and educated.”
― Saddam Hussein

Richard

If muslims truly want Mohammad cartoon to stop then they should stop over-reacting to it. When poking the bear stops being fun (or necessary) people will stop doing it.

2/17 Air Cav

Nearly 40 years ago the American Nazi Party planned a march in Skokie, Illinois. Most of Skokie’s residents were Jewish and many had survived the holocaust. The matter ended up in the Supreme Court after the state government the Little Adolphs barred the Little Adolphs from sporting swastikas and Nazi uniforms. The Supremes held that the swastika did not itself constitute ‘fighting words’ and that it was a protected form of speech. My point is that we, as Americans, make find many a symbol and many forms of speech deplorable and sickening but we tolerate what we must in order that our choice of expression likewise not be subject to government’s boot or the censor’s eraser. Personally, I’d wish the world would leave it to me to decide matters, but I suspect no one but my pet rock would approve.

Nucsnipe

And researchers show that explicit bans on the drawing of mo didn’t occur until 2001 by the Taliban( may the raping by camels be done unto them) http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/16/how-images-of-the-prophet-muhammad-became-forbidden/

Nucsnipe
Veritas Omnia Vincit

The SPLC is a hate group, they think they’ve cornered the market on identifying who is a hate group while sucking the cocks of a known un-indicted co-conspirator linked to Hamas in CAIR….fuck the SPLC.

A Proud Infidel®™

If the SPLC publicly labeled me as “racist’ or “Hate Group”, I’d wear said label with MUCHO pride, triple fuck the SPLC in the ear with a frozen swordfish and up their asses sideways with 10,000 frozen porcupines!!

The Other Whitey

SPLC can kiss my Black Irish ass.

Hondo

I wonder how long it will be this time before some clueless apologist shows up and starts (1) telling us Ms. Gellar is in the wrong because she should self-censor, and (2) claiming they’re not “blaming the victim” when they tell us that?

UpNorth

Speaking of clueless apologists, where is Lars?

GDContractor

Studying for finals. I predict he will surface in a couple of weeks, then see his shadow and crawl back into his academic burrow where the answer to every probability and statistics problem is “400%”.

Richard

Too late. I already read that article on HuffPo.

By the way Geller is actually responsible for their death and the injured police officer because she provoked the a$$holes.

Richard

opps, that was sarcasm. I was paraphrasing the article.

Richard

Here is a sample in the NYT.

They really pound the drum that free speech doesn’t justify the attack but, as far as I am concerned, they blame Geller for the “hate speech” and for the attack.

Pinto Nag

Anytime someone blames the victim of a crime instead of the criminal, they are wrong. Geller’s group was the victim of a shooting by a couple of thugs. Period. It doesn’t get any more simple than that.

Hondo

Minor quibble, PN. “Thugs” implies street criminals. The guys who shot the guard at the Dallas cartoon contest were IMO by definition terrorists – not thugs.

Pinto Nag

You’re right, Hondo. I stand corrected.

rgr1480

You know, I thought that “Piss Christ” (and other anti-Christian art) was supremely offensive. Yet, I did not take weapons to the gallery to murder the artists.

^^^That^^^, gentlemen and ladies, is what freedom of speech is. Artists have the right to create and display offensive material without the fear of being murdered.

If you do not like the art and are offended …. don’t go.

JohnE

Want to protest, go ahead. But use picket signs and bullhorns. Shoot up a Texas rodeo at expect to get shot back at. End of story.

E-6 type, 1 ea

What I’m getting out of alll this is that it’s ok to shoot Muslim extremists, but you just can’t bait ’em.

GDContractor

⇫⇫⇫⇫⇫LIKE⇫⇫⇫⇫⇫

What about spotlighting?

AW1Ed

E-6 type, 1 ea wins the thread!

Old 1SG, US Army (Retired)

Event organizer — vilified…

Contest winner — 10k richer, with a stiff neck from looking over his shoulder…

Off duty cop and Texas weapons carry laws — awesome…

Two dead goat-smelling rookie terrorists — PRICELESS !!!

Maybe we should schedule more of these events to flush the bastards out!

Maggie

Geller said she will be holding more events like this. And I’d attend if the opportunity presented itself. Geller chose that venue specifically because that is where the “Stand with the Prophet” event was held just one week after the Charlie Hebdo shooting.

streetsweeper

Hold the phone: Mr. Simpson was known to law enforcement and in 2011, the 9th US Circuit court dismissed federal charges against him. “In court, a judge decided that Simpson had lied to FBI agents about plans to travel to Somalia in 2009 to engage in what the government called “violent jihad” but that the government had not proved Simpson planned to engage in terrorism. Simpson received three years’ probation, which ended last year.”

Federal judge that dismissed those charges is an activist and known to associate with La Raza.

streetsweeper

Breitbart has the story.

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jerry920

On a humorous note I think we should have more of these drawing contests with the same level of security. Eventually we’d run out of Jihadi’s.

All joking aside I’ll defend any type of speech, even that I find reprehensible (I am not referring to this event. Look up any college course catalog)

There is no right not to be offended. If there was, we’d be France.