Gunmen attack American Freedom Defense Initiative Muhammad cartoon contest
According to Fox News, two gunmen opened fire on a security guard at the Curtis Culwell Center near Dallas where Pamela Geller’s American Freedom Defense Initiative was holding a contest for the best cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad. One security guard, Bruce Joiner, was wounded. Both gunmen were shot dead.
The statement did not say whether the shooting was related to the event, a contest hosted by the New York-based American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI) that would award $10,000 for the best cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad.
Authorities said they were worried that the suspects’ car could contain an incendiary device. Several nearby businesses were evacuated as a precaution and a bomb squad was on the scene early Monday. Police had cordoned off a large area and at least three helicopters circled overhead.
There’s no official word on whether the shooting incident was related to the event, however, the Fox News Channel reports that ISIS has claimed credit for attack.
Of course, no one should be surprised that this happened given the number of potential terrorists in this country, and how easily outraged they seem to be. Personally, I’m on the side of the Constitution, and folks have the right to say and do anything that they want to do.
It’s interesting to me that the people who are alright with folks walking on the flag to express their opinions, think that Pam Geller and her crowd don’t have a justification to intentionally anger Muslims by sticking their finger in the collective eye of the Muslim community. But I don’t see any patriotic Americans gunning down the people who disrespect the American flag.
Category: Terror War
Don’t mess with Texas rite?!!!
Welcome to Texas and burn in Hell goat lovers!
In my business, we are not surprized. Thank God and the range time of the security forces and police. Hopefully the maggots invaded the bodies as they layed there on the hot Garland night. Time to connect the dots and arrest some more.
I’m also thinking that the two dead gunmen are muzzies, or soft headed Libtard muzzie loving sympathizers. Either way, they’re dead, and that’s a good thing.
Libtard muzzie sympathizers, the new hippie commie sympathizers.
Ok. Listen up, would-be jihadis. Let me ‘splain it to ya: You may get away with that shit in Europe, because they’re pussies that don’t like guns, but not Texas. Who was the rocket surgeon that thought it would be a good idea to get into a shootout in Texas? Are you kidding me? A baby rattle in Texas is a box of ammo!!
As someone else commetented on another site: “This is the result of playing cowboys and muslims.”
Um, no. This was an amateurish attack by a couple of locals who self-evidently couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn at 5 feet away.
I would respectfully suggest that this attack is not indicative of Islamist terrorist capabilities. Mumbai would be a better example.
So well done to the police officer’s aim, but let’s not assume they’ll all be this easy.
Am sure Dear Leader will tell the cops to show more compassion.
3 days from now, when Barry reads about it in the paper, I am sure he’ll comment on how we just need to get along and understand each oher and those poor muslims were prokoved by those hate filled right wing white people slandering the prophet…
Oh, it’s okay for SOME people to demonstrate their contempt for the USofA by exercising their Freedom of Speech thing, but it’s not okay for Americans to do the same thing?
Sorry, but what’s good for the ganders works for the gooses. That’s how it works here.
Parenthetically, I do think it’s a small shame that the gunmen didn’t last long enough tell the cops who sent them, but then, the cops demonstrated their own capabilities quite nicely, so I’m good with that.
This is what happens when Chatlie Hebdo is armed!!
One of the dead gunmen has been identified as Elton Simpson, who has a history with law enforcement.
“Simpson was well known to the FBI. Five years ago he was convicted for lying to federal agents about his plans to travel to Africa, but a judge ruled the government did not adequately prove he was going to join a terror group there.
As for the second suspect, the FBI is combing through files on all of Simpson’s known associates in Phoenix and elsewhere, but so far there has been no word on the accomplice’s identity.”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/official-texas-shooting-supsects-ided/story?id=30782088
“He never struck me as someone who would do this sort of thing…”
They never do…good riddance to bad rubbish…
Great to see two more terrorist bastards “doing the forever dirtnap”. Too bad about the injured guard, though.
And yes: the use of the term “terrorist” above is intentional. Their actions demonstrate that is exactly what these two dead bastards indeed were.
Thank you Hondo… Finally someone out here calling it what it is 🙂 🙂
Firstly, I suppose I’m very glad at least two terrorists are dead.
Seconly – the whole “Let’s be dicks to Islam” seems juevenile.
I agree with 1st Amendment – which probably doesn’t apply as I understand the 1st amendment (because it’s there to establish the right to criticize the government, but has since been bastardized into people thinking they can say whatever they want, to whomever they want – which isn’t specified in the amendment – but I digress) – but it just seems stupid. Its as stupid as flag burners and cross-burners and westboro baptists.
So, in your view the only protected political speech should be speech that offends no one? I ask because the contest appears to have been one whose entries fell into the “political cartoons” category, and last time I checked political cartoons were considered a form of protected political speech.
Hondo, that’s a logical fallacy. It’s not even a question remotely related to what I wrote.
I’m saying the whole ‘Win 10K by drawing a cartoon of Mohammed!’ is juevenile. It’s as stupid as the westboro thing.
My comments about the 1st are this: I think it’s designed to protect citizens from Gov’t trying to squash their voice, but it’s been shifted either legally or culturally to seem to protect ‘anyone’s right to say anything they want!’.
Actually, that’s precisely what the 1st Amendment says – in general, you can say essentially whatever you want without governmental interference.
The Courts have held that this restriction is binding on states and local governments as well. They have recognized a few common-sense limitations, most if not all relating to protection of the public safety. (Crimes dealing with unauthorized release of classified information arguably don’t even qualify as a “free speech” issue, as the violation is technically not what someone said but the fact that the information was disclosed without proper authority.)
Civil liability is a different issue. If one’s speech rises to the level of libel or slander, you may be sued in civil court. And a verbal or written lie told to deceive to obtain ill-gotten financial gains or when under oath or investigation may violate other laws as well (e.g., fraud, perjury, or false statements).
What the courts have never done is to limit what one may say in the political arena to that which is inoffensive. The speech here – a cartoon contest – is clearly political speech. Ergo, by implying that such speech should not be made, you’re also exceptionally close to advocating it should also not be permitted. Since some government authority would have to enforce that prohibition, what you’ve just done is to come very close to endorsing a new legal restriction on free speech.
As others here have said, the Constitution contains no “right to not be offended”. Calling out radical Islam in this manner may infuriate Islamic fundamentalists, but the plain truth can sometimes hurt like hell.
The First Amendment is there to prevent the Government from suppressing your speech…regardless of whether that speech is directed at the Government or not. It doesn’t apply here because the Government did not attempt to suppress this particular type of free speech.
Second, there’s an important difference.
Flag burners, Westboro Baptists, and cross-burners are offending their peaceful neighbors on purpose, knowing they will suffer nothing worse than criticism or ridicule.
These people by contrast were offending a community that claims the right to shut them up with violence. People like that should be insulted and offended…and should be shot down like dogs (as these two were) when they attempt to exercise this special “right” they claim for themselves.
I don’t see it exactly that way, but I understand your point.
The 2nd protects the 1st. Always has, always will.
The AFDI was founded by Pamela Geller to bring the crap the Muslim terrorists are doing to Jews and now Christians, women and people that cannot quote some specific thing from the Koran in other areas of the world to the forefront of the conversation here in the USA.
The horrors visited upon them by the terrorists is legend itself as we all know.
The thing of it is that our government and media does all that they can do to present Muslims as a peace loving religion, which it isn’t if you follow the Koran and the teachings of Mohammed.
So I am all for sticking them in the eye, up the ass or even in the gut with as many sharp sticks as can be found.
Fuck those people.
If we continue to sugar coat the conversation to not offend others we will be complicit in our own loss of freedoms.
Juvenile, maybe, necessary, could be, part of the freedoms we enjoy? Absolutely.
I wholeheartedly disagree….
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The italicized component is pretty clear in that abridging the speech is unacceptable, the semi colon after the word press means the next line stands on its’ own and could be understood to mean people can assemble peacefully and protest government action. That the semi colon was used was to indicate there was no such restriction on speech, that while the components are closely related they are independent of each other.
Meaning it was speech and free press by anybody to anybody and that’s just how it is.
On point, I’m glad those guys are dead. Muslims have no rights to special considerations in this country. If their sky man can’t be drawn in a cartoon without inciting them to violence they need to go back to whatever shit country they used to call home and stay there because we don’t need them here.
Understand muslims fundies? Don’t like free speech? That’s to fucking bad, we didn’t create America to protect your tender sensibilities, we created it so you can worship that little mountain moving turd you call a prophet without government interference, but we never promised we wouldn’t make fun of your god and your religion any less than those poor discriminated and persecuted christians who are always fucking whining about some sort of war on christmas that doesn’t exist.
You can worship all you want here, but I can point and laugh all the day long as well. Get used to it or get the fuck out.
Protest all you want, it is your right under the Constitution. However…if you start slinging lead, expect to be met by same. Especially in Tejas…
The itallicized part is part of the point to the final line. It’s not freedom to say whatever we want.
But without turning this into a constitutional discussion – I’ll re-focus to my original point. It’s childish to try and ‘stick it in the eye’ of Muslims because it simply is.
It’s like, I dunno…maybe a little like when guys score a touchdown and start break dancing and all that. Just sorta dumb. It’s RIGHT to allow for freedom of the press and political speech and all that stuff. But it’s also silly to use it like those folks did.
A wise man once said “You can’t take away people’s right to be assholes!” 🙂
What’s childish is an ignorant belief in men in the sky who worry about humans. Sounds kind of like santa claus to me.
Muslims, christians, whatever all need to be mocked and poked…when your fantasy beliefs lead you to murder you need to be terminated and those who sit idly by and think the problem is with those who do the mocking need to understand that they are co-conspirators in the land of make believe and own up to their own guilt in continuing to press the concept that fantasy is an acceptable practice for adults.
Religion is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance
FourteenSierra, I have a question for you. Is it okay for Muslims to commit the mayhem, murder and inhumane torture they do around the world every day? Is it okay for Muslims in this country to sit quietly in their Mosques reading from the same Koran and praying to the same Allah as their ISIS brothers and often supporting them with financial aid? To the first, no. To the second, yes and no. Yes, because in our nation we are free to worship as we choose, including Muslims. No, because you cannot openly or covertly support terrorism but it is done through bank transfers from American to European counterparts to Islamic countries and eventually to the worst of the worst of Islam. So when I see a journalist beheaded and a Jordanian pilot burned alive in a cage the, “Let’s be dicks to Islam” rings just about right to me. Islam IS a problem. Islam who on one hand proclaims, even through their biggest American apologist, our own Closet Muslim In Chief that they are a “religion of peace”, on the other hand presently commit atrocities as bad or worse as any of those of any war in history. When I hear a group of Muslims, somewhere, anywhere honestly and without the “a winks as good as a nod” or “tongue in cheek” manner, denounce any and all Muslims who live by the horrors called for by Mohammed in the Koran, and who believe, from the same book, the world should be one Caliphate under Sharia Law, then I may take a different view of THOSE Muslims. If a journalist or a kid draws a cartoon about Jesus it is held without question as freedom of speech. As much as I may find it personally distasteful, I uphold and defend that expression and use of freedom of speech. But draw a cartoon of Mohammed and there are people ready to murder kids because of it. So tell me again from a different perspective. Why are Muslims NOT to be considered dicks? Why should we not be dicks to Islam? Juvenile?… Read more »
Honestly, I think most religious disagreements are fairly juvenile. My god™ is better than your god™ arguments have caused more deaths over the years then any other disagreements. I will not argue over what may or may not await you when you die…I am too busy living.
well-said..erp…’written’.
Wrong. Atheists have killed far more people than all the religious crazies in history.
Source Casey? For mine I will point you to the Crusades, to the Inquisition, the current idiocy involving Israel and Palestine, the 30 Years War, the “Troubles”, the Mormon wars, the Holocaust, any of the Sudanese conflicts, the forcible circumcision of females and any other of the horrible atrocities committed against those who follow a different deity. Atheists don’t kill someone over disagreements about whose god is less real…
Casey’s statement is probably incorrect, but if you add up the victims of Communist regimes under Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the various Kims, etc. (presumably atheist) you get what- well over a hundred million victims? It takes a lot of history to balance out those kind of numbers. His assertion is not as far-fetched as all that.
Actually, there’s a good chance Casey’s assertion is correct. China under Mao is estimated to have cold-bloodedly murdered over 76.7M – outside of war. The USSR from Lenin to it’s end, approx 61.9M. Cambodia under Pol Pot is similarly estimated to have murdered in cold blood (e.g., outside of war) approx another 2.1M; the Nazis, 20.9M.
That’s a total of approx 161.9M murdered by ostensibly atheist authoritarian regimes – in the 20th century alone. And that total isn’t complete. (Though born Catholic, as an adult Hitler appears to have been as contemptuous for most if not all religions as was Marx.)
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
Please also note that Rummell’s estimates are what he considers “best estimates” – not “worst case”, which are considerably higher. I used worst-case estimates below for religious war/massacre deaths. (In general, Rummel appears to take midpoint between worst-case and best-case estimates as his “best estimate” for deaths.)
In contrast, the relatively small number of acknowledged religious wars throughout history have only been estimated to have killed around 15.25M (see 1st link below). Add in conquests by Timurlame (20M), the Crusades (3.0M), the other Sudanese Civil Wars (1.5), Biafran War (3.0), East Pakistan/ Bangladesh (3.0), GWOT (1.26), the Armenian Genocide), and the worst-case estimate of the Colonial Era (100M – Rummell estimates 50M for Colonialism), and you only come up with around 147M.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll
It can also be argued that these deaths, primarily of religious groups who posed a real or perceived threat towards the in power regime, are the result of religion…
I think the crux of it is that people have been shitty to each other for a long, long time…and will use any and all reasons to be so.
**FourteenSierra, I have a question for you. Is it okay for Muslims to commit the mayhem, murder and inhumane torture they do around the world every day?
Why are we switching topics? What do you want to talk about?
**FourteenSierra, I have a question for you. Is it okay for Muslims in this country to sit quietly in their Mosques reading from the same Koran and praying to the same Allah as their ISIS brothers and often supporting them with financial aid?
What are we talking about? I’m talking about a stupid contest in dallas, and dead terrorists who felt it required killing people.
**No, because you cannot openly or covertly support terrorism but it is done through bank transfers from American to European counterparts to Islamic countries and eventually to the worst of the worst of Islam.
Uh – I don’t support terrorism. What are you talking about??
***As much as I may find it personally distasteful, I uphold and defend that expression and use of freedom of speech.
Does ANYONE here feel differently? That’s like you posting on a mustang forum about how mustangs are cool.
***Why are Muslims NOT to be considered dicks?
Some of them are dicks. Who is arguing the opposite?
***Why should we not be dicks to Islam?
Because it’s not neccessary. You are probably a grown-ass man. If you are, you can do whatever your paygrade and your laws and moral compass allows. I don’t have to be a dick to hate evil.
Drawing stupid cartoons will not end evil. Killing evil will end evil until evil, as it does, once again raises its head and the few good people remaining dust off their helmets and lace their boots and kick its ass. (shrug)
Almost nothing you wrote has to do with what I wrote – but…I’m glad you got the chance to vent.
So it’s OK for you to attempt to limit Sparks’ questions to only subject content you preapprove?
He’s merely trying to limit or control the discussion at hand, OWB.
Which is precisely what the dead Islamic fundamentalist terrorists here were trying to do as well.
Fourteen: you said,
“***Why should we not be dicks to Islam?
Because it’s not necessary … I don’t have to be a dick to hate evil.”
Yes, it is not necessary. By no, it doesn’t matter. And you do have to be a dick to fight evil.
Let’s imagine that the people who organized and drew for that event all sat down and said, “let’s find a way to really insult the muslims!”
So what!? In this country that is protected speech. Those people at the Westboro church sat down and thought of a way to insult and disrupt every military funeral that they visit. They did that by design and it is still protected speech. You don’t have to be a dick but it is allowed and no legal harm comes from it. If harm DOES come from it then it is against the law.
It is not necessary but there is nothing wrong with it. The conversation you want to have is, “if you are not nice (by my definition) then you are all the same – one is as bad as another – and cartoonists have right to self defense from the terrorists.”
You are trying to have a conversation only on the ground and topics of your choosing. Life is more complex than that and in my experience there is a consequence of hiding from or ignoring the complexity. You can stand there feeling all warm and morally superior until you notice that the world has become “kill or be killed”. I would prefer to fight a smaller battle.
While I do believe it should be covered by the 1st, I completely agree on the ‘juvenile’ bit–actually that’s probably the best possible word for it. If it were a few years ago when this was all going down, maybe I could get behind it a little more. As is, it seems that a certain group trying to keep an internet meme alive well past its expiration date–or at best, trying to bait exactly the kind of behavior they got. It’s a ‘play stupid games…’ moment for all involved.
I agree with you, except for one thing. The absurdity of the situation is precisely what is needed to highlight the real danger we face. Some folks got together to draw a cartoon, and somebody tried to kill them for it. THAT IS AS ABSURD AS IT GETS. Anything that nonsensical needs to be showcased until it dies on the vine. And our nation hasn’t responded very well to the obvious problems — we’ve tended to try to respond with some form of tolerance to the hysterical demands of the perpetually outraged — so maybe it’s time to try to address it from the absurd angle.
Much political humor is by definition somewhat juvenile. That doesn’t make it any less effective at getting the point across, though.
You doubt that, listen to some of George Carlin’s work.
So what if someone is offended by someone else’s exercise of their right to free expression? There still is no right to freedom from offense. Besides, if all of us felt compelled to kill everyone who offended us, it would not take long for there to be no one left alive.
On the other hand, the message of terrorists (I really don’t care what their agenda might be – they are terrorists as defined by their actions) lying dead on the pavement with that image broadcast worldwide is strangely comforting. It’s a distasteful image, but one which terrorists and potential terrorists need to see.
The only problem with this is that it doesn’t dissuade those who don’t care if they die during their attacks and look forward to the 72 fat nasty virgins (They are virgins for a reason…give me 3 freaky southern girls over 72 virgins any day…).
Lesson here is be prepared to defend your beliefs from those who disagree to the point that they will forfeit their lives in defense of their idiotic beliefs.
The apologists on Huffpo are condemning the mocking of Mohammed and Islam and stating that we should expect things like this when you mock a religion. When people point out how the libs constantly mock Christianity they point out how Christians killed so many during the Crusades or how Christians killed over 1 million Iraqis since 2002.
What I find disturbing is that there are so many people in this country that think like that. How do you get so full of hate for your own country?
I support the First Amendment. I do that by supporting the Second Amendment. I believe in the Word according to Smith and Wesson. My chapel is a firing range, and my rosary is a box of S&W .40 hollow points.
Screw with my rights, and I will ventilate your idiot jihadist ass. This isn’t Europe, and We the People are not the cowering sheep you’re used to. You want to live here, you’ll learn to play nice, or you will die.
I have a feeling even if they did make into the venue with the people that attended, they would have been met with gun fire from a lot of the attendees.
We need more of these. There are plenty more Islamists that need to be gunned down in the street. We also need to be going out in the street and celebrate when they are gunned down.
Come and take it.
Splash one.
Splash two.
Out.
If this were only about free speech, no one would be lying dead on the pavement, would they?
There was no gunfire, no attempts to commit mass murder or violent protesting when pornography was deemed free speech. I may find it quite offensive, but I’m not going to go shoot the creator of it or throw him into a hole and stone him to death.
In this country, we have the LUXURY of choosing or not choosing a spiritual path. There is NO official or state religion. In England, it’s the Anglicans. In Ireland, the Catholics. In Russia, it’s the Orthodoxy. That doesn’t mean you cannot ascribe to other spiritualities.
What these two dead jackasses did was not protest something they found offensive. That would be valid. Instead, they tried to kill people. Setting aside that the FDIA seems to want to provoke muslims, there was no need or reason OTHER THAN COMMITING A HEINOUS ACT by anyone’s standards.
We’re supposed to be civilized. Civilized people do try to understand each other and not just slaughter each other when they disagree on something.
The difference between US and THEM is that we’ll tolerate their presence and their spiritual path, but WE expect them to tolerate ours.
Unfortunately, they don’t think they have to do so.
There will be more episodes like this. Count on it.
There will be more. From Religious idiots to the ‘entitled’. It’s when, not if.
How many Christians went on violent rampages over Robert Mappelthorpe’s exhibition? I’m sure the muzzies will quickly find out we Americans aren’t afraid to shoot back, especially in Texas where nearly everyone, their Grandma, and their hound dog carries!
I sometimes think that most people in this country walk around in a fog and actually think that no one is going to do anything mean or nasty to them. I can illustrate this with the two women who were jogging (on different dates) late at night (midnight or 1AM) wearing headphones in marginal neighborhoods.
‘Marginal’ means the crime rate is picking up. The braindead idea that it’s safe to be out that late at night wearing headphones is just mindboggling, but they both thought it was okay and were upset (understatement) to find out the hard way that it was NOT okay.
I think their attitude infects a huge percentage of the population in this country, leaving them wide open to this kind of attack, because they simply do not believe it will happen to them. The attack on the Nigerian mall last year was met with ‘oh, that was somewhere else, it won’t happen here’.
Yes, it will happen here, and every time I go to Walmart or some other store, my eyes and ears are wide open becuase we live in an open society that hasn’t been attacked on American turf since 1815. The closest we’ve come to it was 9-11-2001.
I won’t say that people won’t try to stop it if it does happen, but when it does happen, people who are spoonfed idiotic news by the media (and you know which parts I mean) will be like those two women jogging at night, wearing headphones, in a marginal neighborhood.