AF Secretary: time to review transgender ban
Chief Tango sends us a link to the Washington Post which reports that Deborah Lee James, the Secretary of the Air Force, thinks shes ready to lift the ban on transgendered airmen;
“From my point of view, anyone who is capable of accomplishing the job should be able to serve,” James told USA Today’s Susan Page.
It’s a crying-ass shame that she doesn’t feel the same way about the A-10 Thunderbolt.
The Williams Institute, a think tank that studies the gay community, estimates that there are 15,500 transgender members of the military. Over the past two years, advocates say about two dozen people have been dismissed for being transgender. At the same time, many military members say they have noticed a greater openness within their ranks, with some transgender people serving with the knowledge of their peers, superiors and doctors.
Yep, at a time when the Defense Department is cut to the bone, let’s add some unforeseen expenses that it will cost pandering to yet another special group of Americans. But, as with the release of the “torture report” this week, you know this is a done deal before the elections in 2016 to buy some more votes. Since the beginning of this administration, despite the fact that the Department of Defense should be focused on fighting the myriad wars with which they are faced, the objective has been to destroy the only governmental institution that the American people could always count upon. Brick-by-brick.
Category: Military issues
Is anyone surprised?
Not much surprises me these days. That said, no, it does surprise me, but it is quite disturbing. And ridiculous.
Absurd on steroids? But, of course, if your perspective that the military is just another social program, then this makes perfect sense. Not so much to we sane Americans who see the military as a war fighting machine for which there is no reason to recruit folks with preexisting medical expenses.
Once again, the Transgender community has one of the highest rates of suicide attempts in soceity as a whole. A study showed upwards of over 90% of that population segment have other mental disorders that would also preclude them from enlisting in the US Military.
No, they are not the same as Homosexuals. Homosexuals do not require thousands of dollars of treatments annually, nor do they require copious amonst of counseling for a psychological disorder. Let’s forget about the whole “addadicktome” surgeries, hormone treatments, etc… that the Military would not have to “own” as they knowingly took them in with that pre-existing condition.
According to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, “The number of Native Americans taking their own lives is more than three times the national average, and up to 10 times higher on some reservations.” Should we put a blanket on military enlistment by American Indians or should they be evaluated as individuals?
That should be: Should we put a blanket ban on military enlistment by American Indians or should they be evaluated as individuals?
52% Suicide rate ages 18-44… the prime military age group. That would be a wee bit higher rate than any other group.
I served 66-70. AF, recip engine mech. Saw a lot of gays, didn’t matter, they did their job. Back then few knew of transpeople, In Thailand I found there were thousands. But No one discussed it here.
I came home from SEA in 69, just about the time of Stonewall the riot started by a trans woman named Sylvia Reveria. Trans people are far tougher than any Marine or Ranger, they fight everyday to live. Not against guns, not for money, they believe that they are in the wrong body. Combat fatigue, PTSD, have similar outcomes, suicide if not treated. Would PTSD be treatable by a simple operation no one would think twice about it. The person would be back at work and happy.
In the state of Iran the state pays for reassignment surgery, isn’t it nice to know they are more advanced than we are. Canada has serving Trans people, England has them, Sweden, Norway, and even China.
A very high percentage of Native Americans of all tribes were “two Spirited”, Read up on Crazy Horse, would you want to fight him? I think not.
Any surgery costs less than an apendix operation. And many find us attractive.
I could care less who finds you attractive, that really is not the issue is it?
The issue is that the military is there for one reason and one reason only, to kill our Nations Enemies.
It is by its very nature a brutal, and mind fucking enviroment, and can result in even the strongest breaking down mentally. So why in the hell would we want to open it to a group of people who have the highest suicide rates, as well as a plethora of other mental health issues, such as B-polar, Border line personality disorder, severe anxeity issues, severe depression… all of which preclude you from enlistment to begin with.
We have seen the results of relaxed enlistment standards in increased discharges for pre-existing mental health issues that have been magnified by a military experience the individual was unfit for.
you keep living in your “I’m a special snowflake, and even though I come with all this extra baggage the military should accept me for what I am…” Despite the fact, it will cause manpower issues do to the myriad of phyiscal and mental health issues.
No one is saying you have no right to exist, but as a group you should not be serving in the military.
According to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, “The number of Native Americans taking their own lives is more than three times the national average, and up to 10 times higher on some reservations.” Should we put a blanket ban on military enlistment by American Indians or should they be evaluated as individuals?
Oh STFU. I served with a few fine men who were Native American. Huge fucking difference in being Native American and wanting to chop your dick off. Wanting to hurt yourself is a MASSIVE indicator of mental illness by the way.
With all due respect to the LGBT folks, transgendered people have an awful lot of medications and issues that come from being born with the wrong gear to suit their mental frame of reference.
Why is the US taxpayer and the DoD interested in assuming that burden for personnel who are not necessarily superlatives in their respective positions?
We pay more for college educated personnel because medicine, aviation, and other high end skill requirements that are borne by individuals deserve compensation appropriate to their investment in themselves. However, just because a man chooses to lop off his penis or turn it inside out and take hormones and have a breast implant operation doesn’t make them a better mechanic or pilot or doctor than someone without those issues. From a simple economics standpoint they bring nothing but extra baggage to the equation.
Baggage that someone at some point will have to help carry.
A-10 huh….
Well maybe we lop off the large gun on the front of the aircraft and then put a top “v” and bottom “v” protective cover design on the nose of the aircraft and then internalize the weapons system and then we can keep it in the fight.
/isn’t that where you’re going with this anyway?!?!?!?!?
Lop off the gun system … internalize the weapon system … are we talking about the A-10 or the trans community?
Yes.
😀 😀
/you get jokes..
How much do you want to bet that those born female will want to be considered male in every aspect…until they take their PT test and then they will demand the female standards because they were born that way
No, the fun will start when males start declaring themselves as females and then skating by on the PT tests.
Yeap – or being able to perv the naked women in the female head with impunity.
If trans people wish to enlist, let them do so under their biological sex. If some dude who thinks he’s a lady wants to wear a female uniform, let him – but hold him to male PT standards and ban him from female facilities.
If it comes to that, i will announce that i am a Lesbian trapped in a man’s body and should be allowed to do the female standards.
The US military has about 20,000 cross gendered warriors now. none have asked for special privilege, just to live as they are.
Rather large number are Dr’s, and most are officers with advanced degrees. they did not have to serve in the first place. They joined to serve the country, not themselves. and some go all the way up to Admiral or general.
If you think you got guts, put on a dress, make up, heels and hit the bars or shopping center. None of you brave dick heads can hack it, you would chicken out before you got out of the house, barf in the car at the first stop light.
Most have no interest in sex with their same sex. The women changing to male still like their orientation even after surgery. A very small percentage do change.
M2F still like sports, hunting and fishing. They race cars, drive trucks, and manage banks. Some even become actors. There are a few who run for office.
In 1969 when the T’s rebelled they were all called GAY, there was no sub sects. Sex surgery has been done for thousands of years, the Chinese, the Romans and Egyptians all had knowledge of surgery. Even brain surgery.
A sex change never slows down warriors then or now. Just scares the hell out of the macho cowards the clinch up at the thought.
I am an expert shot, then and now. I was an excellent mechanic, carpenter, machinist and salesman. I’m now old but have never lost a fight. And am a very good cook. My husband died ten years ago, a most wonderful man.
You are a moron, plain and simple.
I guess you missed the whole “morale” thing.
The good of a few outweigh the good of the many, huh?
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Just wait until rules are rewritten and the mission of the military falls by the wayside so you and your kind can point the finger and whine about something else.
Go play in traffic.
GT, I must respectfully disagree with you, I think that Pauline Overby is a SHIT-FOR-BRAINS that ought to go do PT in the middle of the freeway during peak rush hour!!
Let’s just go ahead and say “F#ck it” and eliminate all standards for enlistment.
Anybody who can walk, run, crawl, roll or slither into the recruiters office is not immeadiately enlisted.
And promoted to the rank of Command Specialist Sergeant First Class Major General.
And no more boot camp/basic training. Too difficult with all those standards and evaluations.
Any enlistees will be provided with their SEALRangerSniperSpecialForcesRecon badge/tab/beret just as soon as they sign their name on the contract.
We’ll have the most amazing collection of rainbow shitting unicorn riders in the known universe.
Nothing will be able to stop the 1st Special Recon Airborne Call of Duty Brigade Team Battalion.
And they need to join the union, too.
And the uniform pants have to be made out of bacon…so there 😈
No pants, just skirts.
If we changed that to kilts I would be down. Ive got the Scottish knees for it
Well, that would facilitate actions like this – when apropos, of course:
Just stay the hell out of my bathroom and my underwear drawer. And my clothes closet.
Anyone who is so self-absorbed that they consider lopping off or adding body parts is simply NOT qualified to serve because they could not get their minds off themselves long enough to learn or accomplish a useful skill. Of course, any other mind set which begins with “I want” also disqualifies someone from serving in the US military.
If the numbers indicated above are correct, then here’s an idea. TAH gets over 250,000 visits a month; there’s a good chance that a transgendered military person is among them. If you’re out there and reading this, we’d like to talk with you. Stay classy in this discussion and we will, too. I don’t know about the other posters at TAH, but I’ve never had the opportunity to talk to a military transgendered person before, and I would be interested to move beyond the echo chamber on this subject.
PN,
I’ve always said I’m a lesbian in a man’s body….
😀 😀 😀
As long as all my lesbian friends inhabit men’s bodies…we’re good.
That WOULD be a potentially interesting conversation. I almost said “entertaining” – please forgive.
We had a transgender vet who formerly commented regularly here, Pinto Nag. Based on their comments, they were a reasonable and intelligent individual.
As I recall, they indicated they did their transition post-service.
Haven’t seen that individual commenting here in quite a while, though. Hope they’re doing well.
I almost lost an eye without a personal transgender ban. If this passes, eye-pro will need to be worn 24/7.
sincerely
John “Faker 6” Giduck
Old songs for kids of the new transgender, gay families.
Mama sang bass,
Daddy sang alto.
Aunts George and Fred,
Sang bass and baritone.
It was really strange,
A growin’ up in that home.
Now that I’m grown,
And it won’t be long.
I’m a headin’ back to Frisco,
A with my gun.
And they’ll all be singing,
Soprano when I’m done.
In the sweet by-and by…
My son has been a type 1 diabetic since the age of six. It has not stopped him from any activity, including being a nationally ranked kayaker. He is 21 now and would give anything to serve, but is medically disqualified. Yet the insulin he takes daily is benign compared to some of the trangender accomodation drugs. It strikes me as lunicy that we can restrict service due to tatoo size, but not personality affecting drugs.
Sorry to hear about your son’s DQ, but glad to know he’s not letting anything hold him back. One of the toughest things about being a Recruiter is having to tell a motivated young man or woman that they are not qualified to enlist–especially when that disqualification is due to medical reasons. Not to worry, though, most prescription medications (especially those for mood or personality effects) will result in a DQ. For example, a person who takes Adderall must be off the drug for a year (IIRC) and able to function normally without the prescription.
I have no idea how they arrived at 15,500, but IMHO they shouldn’t give any special considerations to those who declare themselves transgender. Let them serve openly? Why not? However, anything that would disqualify a “normal” Soldier (prescriptions, certain medical procedures, etc.) should disqualify transgendered ones as well. This includes gender-reassignment surgery, which is expressly forbidden by AR 40-501. Even so,it’s probably only a matter of time before we have a small army of Mannings hoping to get snipped on the government dime.
Amen!
Sadly, he isn’t associated with the right groups, etc, etc. That was NOT meant to sound dismissive. It’s just the current way of it.
BTW, I’m a bit jealous. I can kayak on flat water – like a lake. In a coupla weeks I’ll be trying to kayak in the OCEAN. Also, we’ve got some seasonal class 5 (I think) waterways around here in the hills and THOSE kayak drivers I’ve seen are awesome.
Practice your roll. And if you can’t roll, practice your inverted exit.
And solo and assisted re-entry.
Get a pump, sponges don’t work.
Here in Tennessee, we have an abudence of great whitewater that won’t freeze off your third point of contact. When I first taught him (he surpassed me years ago) we agreed the best motivator to learn a good roll is the 3000 cubic foot per second enima that follows when you fail.
Hold on a sec. They estimate 15,500 transgendered currently serving. What formula did they use to calculate this? Or did they just ask a bunch of trannie stolen valor alumni who claimed they used to serve and used that as the basis for their data?
11BVet…I gotta agree with you. I think there’s some “fuzzy math” going on to make it look good for this population they are newly endeared to.
As with most things political, the AF secretary reached deep and pulled it out of her ass in a pathetic attempt to push the leftist agenda.
Gotta inflate the numbers, no one would entertain the idea of single-sex latrines and barracks if the numbers were only 11 or 12 trannies serving.
I agree with ArmyATC, this is just another item on the leftist agenda.
I ETS’ed after just three years of AD in the early 90’s when I quickly got sick of the social engineering the Clintons were forcing down the Military’s throat. B. Hussein 0bama & Company obviously want to do at least ten times that!!
Here’s a thought: 15,500 trannies; GOFOs complaining about cuts to enlisted aides. GOFOs get trannies enlisted aides. Problem solved.
Reassignment isn’t just for surgery anymore!
If you’d read the actual article then you’d have seen there’s a link to the source of the 15,500 figure. A 2013 article published in the *American Journal of Public Health* (“Prevalence of gender identity disorder and suicide risk among transgender veterans utilizing veterans health administration care”) found that the prevalence of transgender people in the VA population is more than five times higher than the general US population.
Once again the senior “leadership” has their priorities straight. Fucking idiots.
“Straight”? Or bent with a left hand twist?
Bullshit speculation numbers from the military once again. Apparently they are better at this than fighting wars these days.
IS it impossible for our armed services to recruit non mentally deranged people? I thought military selection was tough because such and such reporters every year have stories about how much more difficult it is to get in. So they are specifically picking fucking mental cases over non mental cases? Sure sounds like it.
Can’t have a tattoo. Can wear a skirt with a ding dong. I don’t get our military any longer. Transgender karaoke nights hosted on military bases for fruitcake perverts within our ranks but can’t wear a white t shirt out on liberty!
Fucking America. God help us.
And don’t forget that smoking a Marlboro is verboten, but smoking a cock in public is just fucking hunky-dory.
I have a lot to say on this, but none of it will make any difference to the powers that be in the current administration. I will say this though, I have met several of these gender confused people and one thing leaps out, They are the most fucked up humans that I have ever met. Two of them went thru the gender reassignment surgery to become women, only to declare that they were lesbians and took female partners. That and they were very ugly females. They are crazier than the people who want their legs amputated because they feel their limbs are not part of them. Do we want people that mentally ill in the military? If a tattoo disqualifies, then a diagnosed mental illness should as well.
“Chelsea” Manning, there’s a fine example of what a TG can contribute to the US Military.
My oldest is a TSgt with 12 years in and he is close to chucking it. I keep trying to give good counsel and get him to stay but this kind of crap isn’t helping; particularly since he is a former 19D SSG.
Wasn’t gonna comment again, but simply must.
I have the utmost respect for the former Navy SEAL who served honorably and decided to do the reassignment thing. On his own dime. He didn’t whine about it. He dealt with a personal issue in a personal way and continues to live an honorable life.
There are lots of people with lots of issues who do what they must to fix themselves and lead productive lives. Some of those folks are in the military. Most are not. Whatever they are doing, they met the minimum requirements for that job instead of demanding that entire nations change the way they do business to accommodate what they want.
I seriously don’t fault the people who are asking for the ridiculous. The fault properly lies with those policy makers who refuse to say “No” to absurd demands.
The “former Navy SEAL” you refer to is retired Senior Chief Petty Officer Kristin Beck, whose memoir is entitled “Warrior Princess: A U.S. Navy SEAL’s Journey to Coming out Transgender”.
Beck is the national transgender military liaison to the Military Freedom Coalition. On their web site you can sign their petition to calling upon the President and the Secretary of Defense “to immediately review and swiftly end the ban on military service by qualified openly transgender Americans.”
On their web site you can also find the following:
“In May of this year Secretary Hagel said the ban on transgender service people would be reviewed. On August 5th of this year a new DOD Regulation was passed that removed the medical regulation that prohibited transgender service. In the following month I sat down with DOD officials and further reviewed the regulations and procedures to include open transgender service in the US military – the same open and equal service by transgender people seen in eighteen other nations including the UK, Canada, Australia and Norway.
“Secretary Hagel has moved the rudder of the ship, but nothing has really changed for the individual transgender person. Over 15,500 Americans still serve in fear for their livelihood and sometimes their lives. We just want to serve our country with honor and integrity – ‘OPEN’ and honest.”
So, I guess we know where this former Navy SEAL for whom you have “the utmost respect” stands on transgender people serving openly in the military.
FIRST BE THE BEST WARFIGHTER YOU CAN BE AND SAVE ALL OF THIS “OTHER STUFF” TILL YOU GET HOME FOR GOOD! IF YOU CANT DO THIS THAN STAY HOME! WE DONT NEED OR WANT YOU!
It appears that the fiercest opposition to this one will come from the left. Have a look at this article:
http://patheticfallacies.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/woman-is-not-a-feeling/
I’m pretty sure that enough angry lesbians up in arms about the penis I mean ‘ladystick’ in the female head to shoot this one down. Just ask Cathy Brennan or Janice Raymond – they’re lefties who will give this one a resounding HELL TO THE NO!
Well, I just spent an hour + down that internet rabbit hole…..so thanks for that 😉
Let me get this straight ( pun intended), there is a group of militant lesbian anti-men “rape culture” screeding women who also hate transgender women and are now allying themselves with anti -gay religious types in order to combat transgender men/women? from using their facilities because they think trannies want to rape them????
Did I slip into an alternate universe without benefit of a Stargate?
I guess I don’t have a problem with it with one major caveat:
1)the person, in question, cannot have undertaken any gender reassignment.
Trangender people need to take hormones the rest of their lives either daily, weekly, or bi-weekly.
If you are disqualifying Diabetics from the military based on the necessity of insulin shots; I can’t see a compelling argument for giving the go on hormone supplication of transgender people.
How that would even work for in a combat environment is beyond me.
However, if its merely a social consideration(no hormones or surgery): I guess I can’t see why it would be a problem.
Diabetes diagnosed after initial entry is NOT an automatic disqualifying medical condition in the military even though diabetes can be a very dangerous and disabling condition (see “Spotlight shines on soldier with Type 1 diabetes” by Steve Liewer in *Stars and Stripes*, June 9, 2005).
There’s no comparison between the danger of missing medication for treatment of diabetes and missing one or even many doses of hormones for a transgender person. Diabetes is a far riskier condition in terms of the dangers of missing medication. It makes no sense to automatically disqualify transgender service members on the basis of their hormone therapy needs.
“It makes no sense to automatically disqualify transgender service members on the basis of their hormone therapy needs.” With pResident Preezy doing his utmost to shrink the budget of the DoD, it certainly does make sense.
flindip’s comment wasn’t about the costs of hormone therapy and neither was mine. However, it boogles the mind that you could really think the cost of hormones to US military personnel would be anything other than trivial.
In any case, I never voted for Barack Obama–not in 2008 nor in 2012–but all spending bills originate in the US House of Representatives, which has been controlled by the GOP since the 2010 election. I haven’t seen the final figures but on 12/4 the Republican-controlled House approved a 2015 military spending bill (HR 3979) of $585 billion, that’s down from $615 billion for FY 2014. If you want to blame Obama alone for DoD budgets you don’t like then you’re clearly off-base.
Hormones are needed during transition, after that they can be dropped. Simply no nuts no mons.
None are debilitating. Ever see a pissed off woman? Imagine 10,000 that were combat trained as men. Attila would run.
I try not to be personal, generally personal comments reflect inner fears that they have the same feelings. Attacking the part of themselves they fear may come out.
I have type 2. Forgetting a dose is not too bad for a short time, but an over dose can cause you to black out or die.
‘“From my point of view, anyone who is capable of accomplishing the job should be able to serve,”’ James told USA Today’s Susan Page.”
Well, now. First off, when the secretary of the United States Air Force is speaking to the press about a significant policy change, hers is the official point of view, whether or not she calls it personal. Secondly, if the new standard for service eligibility is to be that anyone capable of doing the job should be eligible, well, that’s–how you say in English?–freaking nuts. Had sex with a greyhound when you were 15? Who cares if you can do the job, right? And if you like to cuddle with an inflatable in your bunk, what’s the harm if you can do your job? You say your 4’6″ and 290 lbs? So what if you’re a drone operator? Sure you look like shit in that customized uniform but what the hell has that to do with your actual job? The mind boggles.