Arlington clean up
Green Thumb, Ex-PH2 and Pinto Nag send us a link to MSN about how the folks at Arlington National Cemetery has decided to change their policy on mementos left graveside in Section 60, the newest section of markers. Needless to say, the families are pretty upset.
From the Washington Post;
The changes began in August when cemetery officials decided that Section 60 should be subject to the same rules as the rest of the grounds. “The policy hasn’t changed,” said Jennifer Lynch, a spokeswoman for the cemetery. “The policy is the same, but the enforcement is different.” She said the cemetery was responding to complaints that the section had become too disorderly.
Cemetery officials put a short announcement about the changes on the cemetery’s Web site this summer, but few saw it. Most families discovered the change when they visited the grounds and found only tape marks where laminated pictures of their loved ones had been hanging for the past several years. Some of the mementos “deemed worthy of retention” were gathered by Army historians for storage at Fort Belvoir, according to a statement from the cemetery. Most appear to have been thrown in the trash.
Belle’s son, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Kirven, was killed eight years ago in Afghanistan. Ever since, Belle has decorated his grave for his birthday, Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas, St. Patrick’s Day and Easter, leaving the adornments up for two or three weeks and then tucking them away in her attic.
“That’s my way of remembering Nicholas,” she said. “All these silly holidays.”
You know, Arlington might have credibility in this discussion if they hadn’t misplaced so many of the remains of fallen heroes over the past few years. Their record keeping was a bigger mess than anything Ms. Belle could create.
Category: Arlington National Cemetary
I try to go by there every time I am in Dc to say hello, visit and spend a few hours.
This is bullshit. We all deal w/ this in different ways.
Some cry, some laugh, some have picnics or even a few drinks. And many leave behind things in accordance with there beliefs, attitudes, grief or other intangibles.
This is Arlington. It is a forever flowing cultural landscape.
This is bullshit. Plain and simple.
The adornments, while mostly well-meaning, are tacky in THE National Cemetary. No one has to be buried there, he families chose to have their loved ones buried there and now have to play by the rules.
@2 So it’s just a rock garden to you? Nice, neat lines of marble slabs, like slats in a picket fence?
As a matter of fact, why bother to bury anyone there at all? That’s prime real estate that’s being used for compost. Why not just cremate them all, and use that land for something more useful?
You’re damn right that what I just said was cold-blooded. Not pretty, was it?
Your sterility belongs in an operating room, not a place where loved ones are laid to rest.
“Tacky?”
Next time you jump out of a place, try using a chute and wearing a helmet.
TBI has caused your brain to turn to mush.
“place,” of course, equals plane.
OK. I am a company man on this one. There are policies and procedures in place. This section perhaps needed to be brought back into the standard expected at the National Cemetary. Perhaps the Cemetary and families can both do their parts to maintain a squared away santuary while respecting the families who will visit over coming years.
God Bless those in section 60 and the families dealing with this unfortunate distraction.
And I would not be surprised if the current administration used/ordered young privates in TOG to complete this task as ANC workers can be furloughed.
When it rains, it has a tendency to pour…
I have a friend buried in section 60. I was there this past May for Memorial Day and didn’t notice any sort of mess or clutter. This was the same section Obama visited on Memorial Day. I wonder if he made an offhand comment that turned into policy
When Arlington allows it, then ends it, that hurts these families even more. Why do they need more hurt. Let it go Arlington.
Cemeteries are for the living, not for those buried there. It is a place to honor the lives of the departed, not to be kept in a sterile environment because a bureaucrat thinks it looks prettier without any mention of who the person once was.
#10 “…it looks prettier without any mention of who the person once was.” Pretty sure that is the reverse side of the headstone. Name etc is on the other side.
I think I’m with MCPO on this. Buried my wife and also my best Army bud there in August. There’s something to be said for the formal setting. But, I see the other side too. Tough call.
I fully understand the objections of those who are against the enforcement of the policy. I understand the objections of the relatives, families, and friends who left something at a grave only to find it removed and in many cases destroyed. I also understand those who support the policy enfocement on the grounds that leaving items can look less than desirable to other families in the area. I think a case can be made that as some mementos degrade over time, the situation would worsen. At what point does a picture become so faded that it simply appears to be a sheet of paper? At what point in time do cartons of cigarettes degrade to where the original intent and meaning is lost? I think that we also have to consider the maintenance angle as working around the things left on the graves and markers creates more work and therefore more of a disturbance to those who want to visit their friend or loved one in peace. I realize what I am about to say may be controversial, but for me, there is no other place in the country that better illustrates the motto of “E Pluribus Unum” – “out of many, one” than Arlington. Arlington contains the graves of slaves and fomer slaves, those who died as soldiers and those who served as soldiers. It contains the graves of presidents, sciencetists, explorers, statesmen, engineers, doctors and sport figures. It contains the remains of those whose names we will never know. Arlington contains our best as a nation. Men and women who, despite of or perhaps because of, their great diversity made this country as great as it is. Male, female, black, white, red, yellow, rich, poor, etc, it doesn’t matter. They are all here and in death, signify the dream of the United States of America. Laying in peace, the slave, the soldiers from various wars, presidents and others come together in a display of what we should be striving for as a nation, Unity. Out of many, one. I have never liked the idea of one st of… Read more »
#12: nicely done.
This is an excellent example of why regs should either be followed or changed to accommodate new circumstances. There is no way to return to the enforcement of the regs once a pattern of ignoring them has been established without some hurt and/or confusion, but it could have been mitigated somewhat by managing the transition much better than it was, evidently.
Then again, there seem to be an increasing number of folks out there who really expect special treatment and that rules do not apply to them. Could be a bit of that involved here as well.
My two cents, as someone who is on both sides of this. My son is at Abraham Lincoln In Illinois. We were told the,policies when we chose that as his final resting place. If it were not within an easy drive from home, I would have chose Arlington, as a trip there at four years old made him decide to be a soldier. I have many Gold Star friends who did choose Arlington, and they all knew the policy. Barely a week goes by when someone doesn’t announce that they are going to Arlington and offers to visit and leave something at the graves of other Gold Stars’ loved ones. Conversations about the,policy, about what happens to the things that are left there which everyone knows is not technically allowed happen nearly as often. Reminders to each other not to leave anything too valuable or irreplaceable or one of a kind happen constantly, followed by admissions that sooner or later, it will all be cleared away. There are also lots of conversations about how things are starting to look messy, cluttered and disorganized in Section 60. Just as often are the conversations about how good it feels to visit your loved ones’ grave and find things others have left. We rarely know who was there, but these visual,proofs that our loved one is being remembered, honored and missed by others means more than I can express. Every time I visit my sons grave, because Abraham Lincoln is much more strict, or consistent, in removing things left I wonder who if anyone, has been there. I can’t tell you how moved I am when I find something. Coins, patches and other small things have all mysteriously, somehow been slipped into the ground at the base of his stone where they will remain forever. Larger items, I photograph and then bring home, placing them in a box reserved for this purpose and kept with my sons things. I agree that removing all the momentos is the right thing to do. It is part of the deal we understand when we choose this… Read more »
Thank you for taking the time to post.
God bless you Denise!
I do not know exactly what this flap is about. From what I’ve read, Section 60 has long been unusual for the inordinate number of items left on graves there. The items were regularly collected and disposed of by the cemetery’s caretakers. Then, in 2009, something happened: Under the Section 60 Pilot Program, the Army began collecting and storing certain of the items placed on the graves. Those not chosen for recording and preservation (at Fort Belvoir), were disposed of as all items previously had been. When a family member requests an item’s return, the item is returned, something that was not possibly before the Pilot Program began. No one is hiding in the trees, waiting to pounce on those who continue to leave items in Section 60 or elsewhere at ANC. So, like I said, I don’t know what this flap is about.
1st let me address #2 Airborne, I did not choose Arlington my son did and is wife who doesn’t go near there abided by his wishes,(this was his wish at the age of 14). If I had my choose I would have had him laid to rest in my backyard. But this was Jason’s chose. and what an Honor it is…
As far as the regs in any National Cemetery, I do not disagree with them, but I disagree with the fact that they let us do this for so long and have for years then later decided to enforce the rules.
Oh well I too will abide by them. I for one will be there in Dec to personally lay a wreath and decorate the tree that has been decorated for 7 years behind my son’s memory cold stone. (oh and I am rule breaker at times too… Jasons father’s ashes lay with Jason. and I laid what ashes Jason’ wife had under the rock garden I made).
sorry for the spelling and grammar errors.
@12 Nice post, I also think that Arlington embodies the “all men are created equal” as we all die regardless of wealth or position or lack thereof. Arlington makes that apparent as you say because presidents lie in the ground not far from privates….
@15
Most of us are grateful simply for being remembered. And most of us are more than slightly uncomfortable with the special recognitions, honors and thanks. Most of us recognize ‘we’ didn’t do anything but love someone who gave their life for our country.
I would respectfully disagree, you did indeed do something…you raised a patriot. I’ve been quoting Thomas Paine today because I am in a bit of “common sense” frame of mind….he wrote: I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. I never met your son, but I suspect he was the kind of man Paine was talking about. I am truly sorry for your loss and I thank you so much for your words your perspective makes sense and is no way a rant….God Bless you and your family.
@18. MickeyGSM. Thank you for your post. I read more about your son and others, I am certain, would like to also. Thus, what follows is a link to the Arlington National Cemetery website where the the 2007 Richmond Times-Dispatch story of Jason is republished. God bless.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/jrarnette.htm
@18 2/17 Air Cav is right, we will read about your son and while saddened at his loss, we will rejoice in the knowledge that such men walked among us on this earth….
To Denise and Mickey,
God Bless your loved ones and your families.
My family owes EVERYTHING to families like yours.
Carry on.
With respects,
MCPO.
I suspect this could have been better handled had they posted something along the lines of a 60 day warning that it was coming…but I have to agree with the policy. My situation is a bit different…. Dad and Mom are in a section predominantly filled with WWII folks, and it has been pretty much artifact-free except just after a burial. Since it is filled now (they were buried in 2002-2004), it remains a quiet place where everyone is the same. I find it a fitting reflection of its occupants’ status.
Thank you all. I think the hardest for me is that policies can change just like our country has. In growing up I found that when someone died most people sorta put in in a closet to not face it, but today we as Gold Star Families do not want our sons and daughter forgotten and leaving flowers, flags, card and other things @ Arlington helps us to know that they are noticed and not forgotten,. It was my way as with many other to get holidays, special times, and most of all memories alive for us. Jason’s birthday is coming up on Nov 7 he would be celebrating his 31st, but will be forever 24. This year there will be several guys from his unit will be with me to Honor him. but there will be no flowers left, no flags of honor and no picture to touch instead we will touch a cold stone. We may share a beer but will always throw the trash away.
and did you know you can be fined for smoking in the cemetery???? They also have a smoke patrol watching (no joke) that is new this year also.
Sorry just need to vent birthday is close. Have a great day to all of you and Thank you for your service and all you continue to do. love
Michelle Arnette Bryant aka Mickey GSM
Proud Mom of a US Soldier
SSG Jason R Arnette
April 1.2007 Deployed to Heaven