Bronze Star Woes.
I have been away from my home computer and will be away for awhile. My internet is spotty at best so I have been lacking in the posting. But I saw this and thought that this needed a post. It all starts with a TSGT being awarded a Bronze Start for here tour in the Stan. Here is the back story found on thelittlep
JOINT BASE SAN ANTONIO-LACKLAND, Texas — An NCO from the 802nd Comptroller Squadron earned the Bronze Star March 14 for her actions in Afghanistan.
Tech. Sgt. Christina Gamez, a financial analyst in the 802nd CPTS, received the Bronze Star for meritorious service from Brig. Gen. Theresa A. Carter, 502nd Air Base Wing commander, prior to a commander’s call at Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland.
The Bronze Star is the U.S. military’s fourth-highest individual decoration for bravery, heroism or meritorious service.
Gamez distinguished herself by meritorious achievement as the NCO in charge during a 365-day deployment, January 2011 to January 2012. While in Afghanistan, she accurately executed operational funds across eight remote bases, providing commanders with flexibility in support of counterinsurgency efforts. Gamez trained 68 operational fund teams, reviewed 34 projects and funded 280 joint acquisition board packages enabling critical base sustainment.
It seems that the flak behind it was bad enough to have the story pulled from the Air Force’s website. Granted for how many times have we seen the Bronze Star get awarded to Senior level NCOs and Company Grade Officers during deployments but I never remember anything like this happen in the Army. Even the Air Force Times is covering it saying that there was another TSGT that was on the reciving end of harsh words. They even titled it that they were being “bullied”” on the front cover. I tried to find the story but I think that it is too new.
The story drew 70 online comments between March 26 and March 29, mostly from people who were livid because they said Gamez did not deserve to be recognized for doing her job.“I was the camp soccer mom because I was always taking care of people, so that’s the kind of pace I keep, whether it’s here or there,” Gamez said. “I knew that when I was deployed I needed to stay as busy as possible and that’s my normal.” Gamez was shocked that adults could be bullied like this.
“To all those who have gone outside the wire and are going outside the wire wearing 70lbs of gear and return with no more than a thanks for doing your job, I’m sorry you have to see people get BSM that don’t deserve them,” one commenter wrote on the Air Force website before the story was removed.
Anyways. It is not like this has happend before. Or that people in the Military know how the Bronze Star is given out. I mean there were more Bronze Stars given out during OIF 2003-2010 than the Combat Action Badge, by about 30,000. If the Combat Action Badge has a negative image about being just handed out then what does this say about the Bronze Star without Valor?
But honestly for some reason I am not bothered by her getting a BSM. I mean I would rather worry about Admin personal that lie about their awards to rip people off.But what say you?
Category: Veterans Issues, Who knows
If a soldier only has a Bronze Star but not a Combat actions Badge {THAT}, shows all soldiers that he or she was not in combat !!!!!!! ANY SOLDIER that claims differently better have evidence and reasons to explain why he did not receive the Combat Actions Badge !!!!
Soldiers that see what is wrong with awarding the Bronze Star for Meritorious Service are {RIGHT} to complain!!!! Look at a WAR as a boxing ring. In the boxing ring your in a combat zone. To go into the ring but just run around in circles and not face your other fighter you get a BRONZE STAR FOR MERITORIOUS SERVICE. A INFANTRY man goes in the ring and faces the fighter and hits him several times and gets hit several times but doesn’t knock him out but only receives a Army Commendation and it also true if he has a broken arm or leg for ltfe.So another Infantry man goes in the ring-he hits the man an knocks him out–He get a Bronze with a v-device.Meanwhile the Infantryman that got the army commendation finds out he could have stayed outside the ring and received the same award just by being in the cheering section.
The Bronze Star is the 4th highest award for bravery but the problem with the experts in {this comments section } like Hondo also like to include awards that are { not combat } and add them to the list to show that he can be smart to all those that no nothing about awards and what they are for !!!!
WHY??? IS THE ARMY AWARDING A COMBAT DECORATION ONLY GIVEN IN A COMBAT ZONE MOSTLY TO NON-COMBATANTS!!! THE MAIN THING SOLDIERS ARE NOT GETTING WHO ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES IN ACTUAL COMBAT IS A COMBAT DECORATION OF THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL FOR MERITORIOUS SERVICE !!! MERITORIOUS SERVICE DOES NOT RULE OUT COMBAT AND IT IS NOT JUST AWARDED TO NON-COMBATANTS FOR NON-COMBATANT PERFORMANCE !!!!!! SUPPORTIVE UNITS HAVE MADE IT INTO A COMBAT ZONE MSM AND THAT IS NOT WHAT ITS FOR !!!!
IN W.W.2.–those Infantrymen that received the C.I.B.that were on the front-lines were awarded the Bronze Star For Meritorious Service because they were in [ COMBAT!!! } and that is why they received the C.I.B. All U.S.Infantry in ITALY,France and Germany did [ NOT GET THE C.I B.} NOW ASK WHY??? BECAUSE IF YOU WERE INFANTRY THAT HAD NOT ENGAGE THE ENEMY YOU DID NOT RECEIVE A C.I.B.!!! and there were Tens of THOUSANDS of these Infantrymen in this war that did not receive a Bronze Star for { MERITORIOUS SERVICE } because they were not qualified!!!
SSG Michael Cox, are you the SSG Michael Cox from B co 1/509th in 04-05?
Smitty: don’t think so. If I recall correctly, the broken record above has indicated elsewhere he served in Vietnam. But I guess I could be mistaken.
My own father was in Co. E. 397th. Infantry. 100th Infantry Division. His MOS was 745 basic rifleman on his DD form-214. He never received a C.I.B. which also made not qualified for a Bronze Star Medal for Meritorious Service.—There was good sound reason to award the Bronze Star for Meritorious Service to Infantrymen with the C.I.B. They engaged the enemy { DIRECTLY }!!!!
Smitty-No I am a Vietnam vet from the 173rd.
The BAD thing about W.W.2.or any other war was that the Army wanted their best on the front lines so if you had a C.I.B. and still alive you were not going anywhere. Its like you are chosen to be KIA or a WIA. With all those in supportive units rooting you on to VICTORY. I have respect for INFANTRYMEN because I was one of them. I was a sole surviving son during Vietnam I never had to be in Vietnam based on Army Regulations!
An infantryman that gets a Bronze Star with V-device 9 times out of 10 will receive it out of a team effort to take out the enemy. In some cases members of his team will deliberately expose their self to enemy fire and get wounded or killed to take out enemy troops. No soldier in the infantry normally is a hero on his own without help.
WW2 INFANTRY THAT RECEIVED A BRONZE STAR BECAUSE OF THE CIB DID NOT DE-VALUE THIS AWARD!!!! ALL INFANTRY THAT ALREADY HAD BEEN AWARDED THE BRONZE STAR RECEIVED A 2ND AWARD IN 1947!!!!!!
ATTENTION!!!! TO ALL OF YOU THAT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE BRONZE STAR AWARDED TO INFANTRYMEN IN WW2 {{ GO TO THE WEB SITE { D-DAY MILITARIA ] these books are made to show you the GENERAL ORDERS FOR THE CIB and how different the Army was back then. IT HAS ALL THE GENERAL ORDERS FOR AWARDS OF THE CIB AND CMB in the Regiments in the Army from the National Archeives! Example- The 100th Infantry Division had 21,266 that served, of those 16,174 were Infantry in their three Infantry regiments. 13,794 received the CIB or CMB while 2,380 did not get them to qualify for the MOS badge. The remainder of the Division were supportive units like Signal, Artillery,The Army Band etc. The military was set up very differently back then. My dads Company had 398 men in it. Compared to my company in Vietnam with less than 130 to 150 men at any given time.When trying to compare wars don’t forget the numbers reflect a very different time period. It was very hard as a Infantryman in Vietnam not to get into any action based on how many the Army had in the bush!!10 support to 1 infantry soldier.Try going out on ambush with you and two other soldiers. Yea,try to gain fire supperority HA HA!!!!
The jealousy over awarding Bronze Stars to Infantry has played itself out over a long period of time since W.W.2. In Vietnam a lot of officers in command of supportive units justified awarding Bronze Stars to their soldiers because Infantrymen were awarded the C.I.B. That’s like comparing a MOS qualification badge to a Combat Decoration.The other thing that happened in Vietnam was to award Infantry Army Commendation Medals in place of Bronze Stars and only award Bronze Stars with V-devices to individual Infantrymen if they stood out in an action. Meritorious Service with a Combat Decoration only awarded in a combat zone does not mean Non-combat. A PLAY OF WORDS TO JUSTIFY RECEIVING THIS DECORATION !!! NOW WE HAVE TWICE AS MANY AWARDS OF THIS DECORATION IN TODAY’S WARS TO NON-COMBATANTS IN SUPPORTIVE UNITS WHILE THOSE THAT DO THE FIGHTING RECEIVE AWARDS THAT CAN BE GIVEN BACK IN THE STATES!!!!!! THE OTHER NAME THAT THE ARMY GAVE THE C.I.B. WAS THE FIGHTERS BADGE. WHERE ARE THE HERO’S? THEY ARE IN SUPPORTIVE UNITS WITH ALL THE PENCIL PUSHERS!!!
The Military needs to do something in the regulations governing the awarding of the Bronze Star!! They also need to not dis-credit the awards that have been awarded. There are 2 ways this award can be given for non-combat { meritorious service and meritorious achievement ]! There is only 1 way it can be given for combat!! With a V-device.
In 1947 when the Army awarded the Bronze Star to Infantry if they had received the C.I.B. was because the Infantry accounted for over 70% of all the casualties in W.W.2 but not 70% of all Infantry. In Vietnam it is very possible that the Infantry casualties were more than the total number of Infantry deployed in the war!!! In Vietnam [ General Orders ] were issued over 10,000 per. unit, per year so it could [hide this fact] from the public of those that wanted to get facts and information about the war. Create mountains of paper work is the best way to hide the truth!!!!
Uh-oh!
Go to — D-Day Militaria on the web and look up Vietnam War [ General Orders ].. Click on the Vietnam Ribbon and see how much trouble the author is having in getting information about {General Orders] from the U.S. Army Units that were in that war.
To compare W.W.2 Infantry go to [ 100th Infantry Division Roster ] 1944-45 on your web. The size and numbers of the 397th, 398th, and 399th Infantry in that Division. Nothing is close to the size of a Infantry Company in Vietnam numbering between 130 to 150 men.
Casualties of the total number of Infantry in Vietnam and Casualties of 70% in W.W.2 Infantry casualties do not mean the same thing!!!! It just means 70$ of all the casualties in W.W.2!!!!!!
The chances of Infantrymen getting K.I.A. or W.I.A in Vietnam was far greater than their W.W.2 counterparts ! Prove Me wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Experts.
@121.
What do you think about that “drone” identifier?
The “Drone” medal [ Combat video game medal with real toys ] No valor required { no assembly required ]and you to can be an instant hero !!!!
@123.
Roger that.
Those that think up awards like ‘drone medals’ need to put tape on their ears to help them from getting their heads stuck up their asses. They have no understanding of combat because they were never in combat by choice on their part!!!! WHY?
Uh-oh.
Have to agree, drone medal, shouldn’t be a medal at all. But I am beginning to seriously wonder about our pc, social pleasing military. Those in leadership forget what the military is about.
I know I’m a pain in the ass about the Bronze Star Medal but I feel it is undermining the morale of those that actually risk their lives in actual combat over those that are not. What is wrong about receiving this medal for { Meritorious Combat ]? Being in the combat arms is a very different game than support units !!!
In any engagement you count on others around you to risk their lives as well as you own in defeating the enemy. Its a team effort with those that survive and those that don’t.You all are soldiers equally respected by your team not your rank !!!!
The bottom line— its one man risking his life for his fellow man.!! No rank required !!
The Bronze Star Medal is a MSM that changes do to Location!!!! Nothing more !!!
I bet a lot of soldiers suffer from [ flash backs ]in the upper ranks that receive the Bronze Star for { Meritorious Service ] for non-combat!!! I bet when they get home they have P.T.S.D. and wake up at night in a cold sweat!! Never mind that their MOS has nothing to do with combat arms !!! Don’t worry when they get home they can invent a story because the public don’t know. Besides that most soldiers that risk their live’s in combat only get non-combat decorations because you fearless leader’s make sure of that!!!!!
NOW ALL SOLDIERS KNOW WHAT THE [ BS [ IN THE BRONZE STAR STANDS FOR !!!!!
WHERE IN THE REGULATIONS DOES IT STATE — THAT THE BRONZE STAR FOR MERITORIOUS SERVICE HAS TO BE BASED ON RANK OR PERFORMANCE THAT HAS TO BE EQUAL TO THE SAME LEVEL AS THE M.S.M.???? SHOW ME SO CALLED ARMY OFFICERS AND UPPER NCO’s!!!!!
The Army is not awarding this medal for soldiers that are in combat and actively risking their lives in combat actions Why??? Why, do they lay claim that non-combat performance is far more important than acts in combat? Why do they claim that only when the V-device is attached to the Bronze Star that it can be awarded for combat? Show me prof that its being awarded with out v-device just as much as non-combat and not based on rank !!!!!!
Risking ones life in combat out ways any performance for non–combat reasons!!!!!!!! OR YOU ARE NOT PLACING VALUE ON YOUR SOLDIERS VERY LIFE’S !!!!!
TO ALL THAT CLAIM RANK IS A REASON TO AWARD A BRONZE STAR LIKE A MSM !!! WHY DID PVT. PFC. CORPS. T/4. IN OTHER WARS RECEIVE THIS AWARD IF IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH RANK???????????
Army Regulations for awarding the Bronze Star Medal is not nor has ever been the same as awarding The Meritorious Service Medal !!!!! They are ‘TWO DIFFERENT MEDALS’ !!!!! Show me in awarding the M.S.M. does it state ” To be awarded to any Soldier serving in any capacity “. The M.S.M. was developed to reward a level of performance of a higher authority only to equal the level of the Bronze Star in peace time !!! The Bronze Star serves its purpose in war in a life and death situation that a peace time same level award cannot!!!!!
A PRIVATE SERVES IN HIS CAPACITY AS A PRIVATE IN THE ARMED FORCES OF UNITED STATES !!!! THE ARMY IS VIOLATING ITS OWN REGULATIONS GOVERNING THE AWARD OF THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL BASED ON THE EXISTING REGULATIONS !!!! THE REGULATIONS OF THE M.S.M ARE DIFFERENT !!!! IT DOES NOT STATE, AWARDED TO ANY SOLDIER WHILE SERVING IN ANY CAPACITY IN REGULATIONS OF THE M.S.M.!!!!!!!
YES, The Bronze Star is awarded to E-1 to E-4
1. If you are dead !!!
2. If you are dead and receive it with V-device!!
3. If you are alive and are awarded it With V-device !!
For Meritorious Service for risking your life in actual combat???? NO, SORRY YOU DON”T COUNT AND WHO CARE’S !!!
Sitting behind a desk and doing a good job ?? NOW THAT’S WHAT REALLY COUNT’S !!!!!!!!!!! AND HAVING ENOUGH RANK ?? BOY THAT ALSO REALLY COUNTS !!!! A REAL HERO OF THE NATION !!!!
The M.S.M was created during the Vietnam War for career soldiers that were honorably recognized because they were in the States with no chance to be rotated to Vietnam. A lot of soldiers coming back from Vietnam were highly decorated with only 2 or 3 years in the service while soldiers with 10 pr 15 years had nothing to show for service time !!! I was a Vietnam Vet during this time and know it hurt a lot of egos in the upper ranks. That’s why it was created !!!!!!
How many times are you going to post???
SFC Rowe: please don’t interrupt this man’s conversation with himself.
How Many times am I going to Post??? Until you realize an the Army just how wrong you are !
The Army is not awarding this Medal to those who engage the enemy but have no problem awarding it based on rank to those who do not risk their lives. Yes, I know you can get it for non-combat. The V-device is not the only way E-1 to E-4 should receive this medal nor should it take a soldiers death to justify being awarded one. That is a hell of a way to claim you show respect to the soldiers in the infantry or non-infantry who actively engage in combat in any war.
TO ALL OF YOU !!!!! PLEASE GO TO THE WEB SITE { BRONZE STAR V/ A SOLDIERS PERSPECTIVE } CLICK ON THE PICTURE OF THE CITATION ITSELF. THIS IS A VERY STRANGE CITATION !!!! IT DOES { NOT } STATE ANYTHING ABOUT THE ACTION THIS SOLDIER WAS IN NOR DOES IT SAY ANYTHING HE DID ON THE DATE OF THE ACTION FOR WHICH HE WAS AWARDED THIS BRONZE STAR WITH V/DEVICE !!!!! {{{THIS IS A VERY STRANGE AWARD !!!!!!!! }}}}
Ya know, were this MY website, I’m guessing if I shut down the comments on this thread, SSG Cox would blow away, never to be heard from again. And IMHO, that wouldn’t be such a horrible thing.
YMMV.
NHSparky — Sorry but I didn’t realize that all of you knew this citation was a complete FRAUD !!!! THANKS FOR YOUR EXPERT OPINION ABOUT KNOWING AND SEEING JUNK CITATIONS WHEN THEY SURFACE ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!
Might I suggest you start your own blog where you can rant to your heart’s content on this issue that, were it not for your inanity, would have fallen by the wayside long ago?
In short, to put it nicely, quit jacking the bandwidth, fag.
Over 40 fuggin’ commennts by SSG Michael Cox and he hasn’t proven a fuggin’ thing.
Amazing.
at the risk of making this thread last one second longer than it has too, hey SSG, GIVE IT A FUCKIN’ REST DUDE!!!