Pentagon’s transgender acceptance hit snags
The Washington Post reports that the Pentagon is having trouble coming to a consensus how about how to integrate transgender soldiers into the ranks;
Peter Levine, who recently took over as the Pentagon’s acting personnel chief, said that Carter remains committed to pursuing the change, but added that it will likely take “months, but not large numbers of months” more to finalize details.
“If there was consensus on it, yeah, we would have done it,” Levine said. “But obviously there are different views from different officials in the services.”
He added: “We’re going to work through that . . . and we’re going to do it expeditiously so that we can do it in this administration. But it’s important that we not only do it, but do it right.”
I have no doubts that they’ll cram this down the uniformed services throats in the next eight months – they have to, the social justice warriors demand that it happen – it’s more important than defeating ISiS or the Taliban.
Some of the problems that face the military are in that picture of Staff Sergeant King above. He’s already serving as a woman – and he needs a GD haircut. Why have uniform standards if they’re not going to enforce those standards across the board?
While official Pentagon policy still forbids openly transgender personnel, [King’s] commanders have been supportive, [King] said. King even purchased a female dress Army service uniform, anticipating that [King] would be able to wear it soon.
“I made a decision that owning that uniform was important to me, and I believe that our leadership is going to do the right thing,” [King] said.
King’s sergeant major needs to be taught how to enforce current military standards – not only for letting a biologically male soldier to walk around with hair like that, but also for letting King talk to the Washington Post about it. It shows, though, that transgender people really don’t care about their service, they only want acceptance of their lifestyle – a lifestyle that many still consider deviant.
In one case, Army Sgt. Shane Ortega, a transgender man, was required last summer to go to a uniform shop where he was stationed at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii with a senior enlisted soldier to obtain a female dress uniform in order to meet Army officials at the Pentagon to discuss transgender policy concerns, according to Ortega and Army officials.
Ortega said the incident showed “a real lack of leadership and a lack of human compassion” and demonstrated the level of discrimination and ignorance in the military about transgender people is huge.
“I had to go through this experience at a public time … and try on this uniform in a public space and basically be humiliated because everyone in the space is going to go, ‘Why is this male soldier trying on this female uniform?’ ”
Tough. The military isn’t a social experiment, and you knew the standards before you signed. If you don’t like the required standards of behavior and conduct, you can always leave. But, then, the goal here is to cram this down decent society’s throat.
Thanks to Chief Tango for the link.
Category: Big Pentagon
I am soooo glad to be retired.
Word.
You and me both. I mean, WTF? Really? On the other hand this should really confuse the hajis. At least as much as it has confused me.
Right There with you Jumpmaster ???
We’re fucking doomed! If the Hildabeast gets elected down the toilet we go.
Hey, she used to be the First Lady.
Now she’s just the Worst Lady.
She’s always had the “Worst Lady” title sewed-up.
I dunno, we haven’t seen Moochelle after her White House years yet.
He put his personal issues before the Army and should be unfit to serve.
That is one butt ugly girl…..
My thoughts exactly. Butt ugly man as well.
With a prominent Adam’s apple, no less.
that damn picture has been nagging me…where have I seen that profile before. Then I remembered Jeff Dunham’s “Bubba”
solve the problem make them officers. they will blend right in; no one will even notice
Thomas Huxton: I hope that your comment here regarding officers was intended to be presented as a joke.
If not, please be advised that there are a number of members of Team TAH that are active duty, former, or retired officers from all of the armed services who have served multiple combat tours, and they may not receive your disparaging comment about officers very well.
Officers or enlisted, we’re all on the same team here at TAH, and what you posted about officers is quite frankly way out of line.
And before you respond, please consider how you would react if someone came in here and made a disparaging comment like yours above about enlisted servicemembers, rather than officers. My guess is that it wouldn’t play very well, now would it?
Officers and enlisted: one team, one fight.
Hopefully you’re on board with that concept.
Semper Fi.
+1
My paternal grandfather was an Army officer during the Second World War (Medical Corps in Alaska, if I remember correctly). He was a real hard-charger who took no shit from anyone, period.
Thomas Huxton…you better thank whatever Higher Powers you pray to that the old man is now dead and gone, because otherwise he would have given you a response that makes the reply from Mick look like it came from Emily Post.
Yes, Sir.
I regret leaving off the sarc/ bad humor tags off of my post. I believe the average reader would recognize it as such.
My sense of humor has been wacked, anyway, by being twice married to a Woman Marine.
I have great respect for some officers; pilots, medevac crews and surgeons especially.
In particular, I enjoyed working for CG E.B. Roberts (a gentleman), who took me out of the field for distracting his Staff from the noon briefings. On first meeting I had cussed out Himself and his crew for bunching up around me on a hot L.Z. (HE had a sense of humor.) Perhaps some officers here will remember trashing the CG’s compound during a drunken prank.??? (kept me up much of the night with their noise) ………………….. I served his successor (George William Casey, Sr.) breakfast on the day of his loss. 25 years later I gave testimony on the events surrounding that day.
I regret any perceived insult to Yourself, your fellow officers, or your transgendered friends.
I suppose I will not be telling the story of the confusion surrounding Sergeant Major Majors and Major Sergeant.
Your reply is sophomoric, and it shows that you completely missed my point.
(Also please see Semper Idem’s post immediately above your reply for additional insight into how another TAH member understood your original post.)
You apparently want to maintain an antagonistic “officer vs enlisted” mindset around here; let me know how that works out for you in the long run.
To continue doing so will add nothing to the discussion here on these pages, and it will detract from what TAH is trying to accomplish.
GOD, Jesus, Joseph, Mary and Saint Peter, I wonder just how much more perversity they’re going to shove into the U.S. Military?
DoD twists itself into moral pretzels but lacks the real candor and commitment to just open the doors for a full Starship Troopers integration. Let whomever be whatever whenever…shower together, screw like rabbits, be a man today and a woman tomorrow, who cares…all that matters is that this makes us so much more capable a force, right…it makes us more capable right…?
Ugh, echoing the comment above, I cannot wait to be retired to share my opinion without repercussions and to know that I don’t have to care if I don’t want to…
Yeah, well…And that’s all I got.
I recall this thing we used to call “selfless service”. Now it’s all “my feelings, my identity, my safe space” etc. More “me me me’s” than a fookin Italian opera. Listen up cupcake, the military ain’t about YOU, it’s about teamwork and serving something bigger than yourself. Make your social statement elsewhere. Right now you’re a circus sideshow that’s a distraction and a detractor from much bigger more important issues. Oh, I’m insensitive? I suggest you take a look at the field where I grow my fucks.
I missed the service when I retired…..now?
Not so much.
^^^^ Word.
Which PT test does King take? I would have loved to have been transgendered twice a year and max the APFT without really trying.
Bigger question, now that “King” is switch hitting, shouldn’t “she” be named Queen?
Bada Bing! Intertoobs winner.
I just threw up a little in my mouth. Assign them all to the same unit and send them to Shemya Island.
Really really glad I retired in 2012…
2013 for ‘Ret. Thank God!
In the 80s, toward the end of my career, I was increasingly assigned ‘collateral duties’ that soon took up at least 1/4 of my time, removing me from my beloved NEC. The Navy began going batshit crazy in the early 80s with MR&R (Military Rights and Responsibilities), CE (Cultural Expression Workshop) and literally a host of other feelgood stuff. It was so bad that career sailors were pulled from their primary NEC and the collaterals became very nearly a full time assignment for them. I was fortunate in that I wasn’t pulled entirely from my primary NEC. It was bad enough that about one week per month was entirely devoted to what I considered feelgood make-work so that people at the top of the food chain could feel good about themselves. Actually, the COs had no choice. The mandatory training then, as now, was/is dictated by higher authority. I doubt I would be a career sailor in today’s military environment. From speaking with AD sailors and some grunts, the foolishness is rampant. Probably couldn’t do it today. The SJW crowd has a toehold and are determined to change the country to their liking.
DD-214 is better than a reserve parachute at this time.
I SO
MY DD214!!!
HGH and Steroids are now legal for certain groups of personnel but not all. How about the weight lifters and body builders who were discharged because they no longer conformed to Body Standards after the waivers for them were eliminated.
Also, does not the protocol of their medical treatment make them NON DEPLOYABLE which is supposed to be #1 reason for a ticket to civilian life?
Some Standards.
Wait. Big Army threw out weight lifters? Why–couldn’t they run?
More the Corps, they do not conform to the BMI and most failed the tape as well.
At first I thought the article was titled, “Pentagon’s transgender acceptance hit snatch”.
How about the fact that there’s a picture of a queen named king…lol
But would ya hit it?
I would not. I don’t do dick or rennovated dick.
ID SARC—at last we’ve found what appears to be a standard after all…high fives all around…
Good on ya brother!
I’d hit it. With an 18 wheeler at about 90 MPH.
“The military isn’t a social experiment…”
Not exactly-the military shouldn’t be a social experiment, but lefties value the agenda of stripping away any and all reminders that there just might be some innate characteristics that determine human behavior (IOW that human behavior is not infinitely malleable) over anything so trivial as national security.
This is fucking insane. If you’re that delusional and mentally ill you are not fit to serve, period. I hope Trump reverses all this obvious and intentional damage been done to our military.
Well, he’s somewhat more likely, but IDK if he cares really.
I’m getting damned tired of this shit. I really need to turn off the WWW because all it is doing is pissing me off by revealing how screwed we are.
And, I don’t love Jesus/Buddha/people with cancer/animals/gays/straights/blacks/reds/yellows/military/kids/Bernasty/cats/… because I won’t “click yes if you love….”
Claw will set me straight in a few weeks.
If every thing comes off as it stands now, be prepared to be set straight by two old NCO’s.
You gotta remember that 3/17 Air Cav made Buck Sergeant before he got out, even though he does lay claim to being “That Guy.”
Smile. Hope all is going well.
Won’t be the first time this old officer has been set straight by NCO’s!
Going fantastic. Wonderful trip. We cross back to the US on Wed or Thur.
It usually began with: “Permission to speak frankly LT?” Or “Sir, you gotta be shitting me, Sir.”
Don’t forget to wave as you pass through AZ
You mean, he’s going to get his eyebrows waxed?
I’m just having some difficulties with this desperate need these people have to let everyone know that they have bats in their belfries. Any advice on the part of any old NCO will be appreciated.
I am currently a company commander and I can tell you that it is a real pain in the ass to make sure I have latrine and shower facilities for just the male and female Soldiers, enforcing SHARP and EEO ( to the point where male Soldiers are scared to ask any female Soldier out, and I mean as one of the “guys” not on a romantic date.), yet I am supposed to ensure total integration. I am running out of time to “command” because I have to make sure the logistics for 2 genders are provided and available. Now, we’re going to add a few more into the mix?
Come-on retirement!
Shower facilities? Why can’t you do what they did in Korea? One bathroom tent for showers, everyone used the same showers, but there was a sign outside that said ‘OCCUPIED – WOMEN’ or ‘OCCUPIED – MEN’.
Would you like me to give your SHARP lecture, Blaster?
I get to give that SHARP lecture every time some Admiral or general gets caught with his pants down.lol.
As for the showers and latrines, we can’t do anything that involves commonsense or the easy way out anymore.
Believe it or not, all the transgender folks out there are now screaming that you’re not allowed to have private bathrooms for whoever or whatever wants to go in one. Their reasoning behind that is it is discriminating against their right to use the bathroom that they affiliate their self with. In other words, if you turn all your bathrooms into private bathrooms, you take away their right to go to the women’s restroom if they identify as a woman and visa versa. I have had a hard time getting my head wrapped around this too. In fact it gives me a headache to even think about it. If they are not happy with what God gave them, how can I fix it?
You can’t. And today’s medical science can at best only partially fix their issues.
The Federal government should neither try to do so, nor should they be on the hook to pay for the attempt. Someone wants a “snip & clip” or “add a dork” procedure performed, that should be on their own time – and their own dime. Ditto the lifetime of follow-up medical treatment, medicines, and therapy required for their aftercare.
Agreed. We are so underfunded that we cannibalize vehicles to make other vehicles fully mission capable, and I I will get my ass handed to me if anybody finds out because that’s not supposed to happen. But we have the money to pay for this crap.
My wife and I went through in-vitro fertilization 12 years ago to have a child and it was 100% on us to pay for because it was elective, but they get this paid for.needless to say, it sucks.
Their issues aren’t medical; they are psychological. We need more shrinks. But then, psychological problems like this should be disqualifying, period. I suggest shrink-wrapping all of them and depositing them outside the main gate. Society needs to solve their problems. It ain’t the military’s job. (Frustration level approaching critical.)
Pray tell: precisely why is solving their problems society’s responsibility?
Last time I checked, they’re still individuals. If I’m short of cash at the end of the month and my cell phone or computer breaks – or I need the money to pay, say, a doctor’s bill – I don’t exactly expect “society” to fix that for me. And I shouldn’t.
That old concept called “individual responsibility” is still valid, amigo.
Gender Dysphoria DSM-V 302.85 is also not a psychotic disorder, so if a person with such desires doesn’t see it as a problem and doesn’t want treatment, there’s really nothing you can do about it.
??????
Response to me, or to Bill M? If to me, no comprende?
Just adding to the convo…more mental types still can’t force treatment for the disorder or hinder the the chemical and surgical enabling that goes on with it.
..and as predicted the administration now wants the costs of HRT and surgery covered under the ACA
And I agree. My point, perhaps not well enunciated, is that it is a societal problem, not one the military should have to deal with. Society can handle it in any way it wants – through mental health channels if it so desires, although I don’t see that course as being effective. These folks could perhaps be shamed or ignored. By no means should we have to make accommodations for them in every aspect of daily life. If what’s his name above wants to traipse around in a dress, a la Klinger, let him, but he hauls his junk to the men’s room, just like any other man. Nor would I particularly see any reason why society must make accommodation for his/her/its foibles. Life’s a bitch, learn to cope.
(I know what I want to say but I just can’t put the words together today.)
So you’re trying to fix stupid. Good luck with that.
I do agree with all-gender washrooms / showers / etc. But some guy showing his wedding tackle in the women’s room because he claims to ‘feel like a woman’ (which is bullshit; click the link below this paragraph for more info from a woman’s perspective) is just outta line.
Oh yeah, about that link I promised. Here it is: https://patheticfallacies.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/woman-is-not-a-feeling/
Nope. Not trying to fix stupid and don’t want to either. Believe it or not, this is now following current orders and trying to anticipate the next orders based on the stupid ass route we are currently on.
So , I just read that, and the comments, um…..
WTF was going on there?
The lesbians hate the trannies? Is that the take away?
I confused again. ( but that’s no great thing to confuse me.
)
Haircut doesn’t even meet women’s regs.
More important, does this confused person shave his legs and wear nail polish. He’d better have his effing legs shaved all the way to his nads, period. Nail polish – no funky colors or deco art. Ears pierced? Earrings are supposed to be studs, gold or not noticeable color. (I had lapia lazuli set in gold.)
This is ridiculous. Don’t expect me, the taxpayer to pay for your stuff, your sex change or your mental issues. None of us who pay taxes that go into your paycheck should have to do so.
Why are these idjits going into the service BEFORE they actually do all the things necessary to transfer to the opposite side of the fence? Free medical services.
Are these little twigs being humiliated by having to wear a skirt instead of pants?
Well, Tootsie, I got news for you.
Real women DO wear skirts, you asshole. So how is it embarrassing to wear one?
This obnoxious display of ‘look at me!!!’ has to stop at some point, doesn’t it?
Ex, I keep telling myself that at some point commonsense has to take over.
AND I keep waiting and waiting,,,,,,
Is it actually wearing earrings in a combat uniform? Not authorized!
I’m convinced it’s a “HEY, look at me!” show off on his/her/its part. I see King parading in every LGBT spotlight he/she/it can find. There are websites that tell about those that have had sex change reversal after finding that wasn’t the answer. I wonder how much B. Hussein 0bama & Company are exacerbating the problem for publicity while not giving a damn about the outcome?
HEY!!!! What about me??? ‘Course I am no longer in the service, but if I were today…I identify as a transgender cat. Who would see to it I could hike a leg and take a whiz in a sand box? And what happens if I gotta do Cat # 2 and need to cover it up? I’ll bring a big ‘ol turd to the front door in the morning just to say “I care”.
I read some place that this whole TG thing is an attempt by either straight or gay men to squelch women and put us in our place, whatever that means.
That sounds awfully medieval to me.
Before all the pressure to “normalize” virtually every kind of deviant behavior, transgender was considered a mental illness in the gold standard of psychiatry the DSM IV.
Just to muddy the waters a little more, according to 23andme, which is doing genetic testing for a fee, they have found NO genetic component to LGBT people.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
Please quit trying to explain fantasy with science – it will be ignored at your peril.
Forbidden topics to the left include gender identity, normality of homosexuality, efficiency of socialism, and the value of the military. On the right you hit the third rail on creationism, women having any rights, the evils of any immigration, and any suggestion of any gun control.
OK, a bit tongue in cheek, but political discourse these days is less about discussion and more like playing ‘Operation’ hooked to a high-tension line.
RM3…Transvestic Disorder and Gender Dysphoria are still diagnoses in the DSM-V
They used to treat those disorders and it disqualified you for most positions of trust. They might be listed but they are now given special privilege instead of meds.
I’m glad I got out 40 years ago before all this
social engineering, WTF is wrong with these anal orifices that never served shoving this down the throats of the troops
WTF… This soldier should be in the process of being removed from the US Military due to their psychological condition. His Leadership have their priorities all fucked up as well, as does the Pentagon but that is no great surprise.
We are worried about pandering to the .2% of society , instead of war fighting. We are screwed even more than I thought would be possible under Obama.
Fall of the Roman Empire 2.0
Hate to tell you this, Dustoff, but Rome lasted for 1200++ years. Established ca. 800BC, ended 476AD. However, the Republic truly ended when Gaius Iulius Caesar declared himself Dictator after pounding the more popular Pompey down in Egypt.
Ok IDC SARC-have we found your hard limit here?
hard limit indeed…not enough viagra in the world. I’d rather do Hillary Clinton twice, in bright light.
Well, at least now we know you’re sane . . . more or less. (smile)
Even sans a single paper bag?
Whew! I was concerned that perhaps IDC SARC would try to yank us, but my faith has been restored.
Big fan of vajayjay, no desire to endeavor into surgical facsimiles thereof
I would rather be in the company of rough men than stuck in a whorehouse full of crossdressers and gender psychos. And I don’t give a crap who knows it.
Well, if you only do it once, it’s just experimentation. Or so I was told by the Bennyboys. Lol
I passed. too many actual born as women folk out there.
Does anybody know how that 11B urinalysis test will go? I think they will need a transgender meat/thing gazer for it.
Too funny! I hadn’t even thought about that one.
That’s is one hell of a point that I haven’t even considered.
Thanks for that!
What about drag queens working/spotted on Ardennes street.
There was a time when a bunch of paratroopers would have put an end to that.
I guess the transition is almost complete.
Nonsense-if that person identifies as a female, then she is a female and whatever comes out of her pants is female genitalia. So why would a female observer have any problem watching her pee from her “female penis”?
This is how our presumptive betters actually think.
I’m no military authority, but wouldn’t blood tests work? Granted, they cost more because the blood draw has to be done by a nurse, but there wouldn’t seem to be any issues with genital privacy.
Has to be drawn by a nurse? huh?
Any lab tech can draw blood for tests. That’s been going on for years.
I’ll draw the blood. It might hurt and it might be messy, But I can do it.
Hey, I’m certified combat lifesaver!
As a non-nurse Hospital Corpsman, I have drawn from and injected into veins NLT 25,000 times. Yes, that is 25 thousand. Some Corpsman I know, primarily lab techs (now-a-day known as Medical Technologists, I believe), have probably ‘stuck’ many more than that.
The almost MRS D (She’s an RN) asked me about my Army medical training. I said I’m combat lifesaver trained, I’m good at IV’s, sucking chest wounds and traumatic amputation. And 9 line MEDEVAC. She says “great, if I get dehydrated, shot, or blown up I’m fine, I catch a cold and I’m fooked”. I offered chicken soup
Good way to overcome and adapt
And y’all make fun of Navy guys?
So glad my DD-214 protects me from all this bullshit.
Ain’t it the truth!
Amen!
Word.
Just something to think about for all of you that make fun of Navy guys.
There’ is one distinct area that Navy reigns superior, hands down. Broadway musicals!
After all, do you see Marines, or Air Force or Army dancing around in tights and white gloves? No, it’s always the Navy.
Hope this provides some clarity.
So…if I self-identify as the President of the United States, do I get to move into the White House and call the shots?
If I self-identify as a sea lion, does that mean I can just jump into the pool at Sea World when I feel like going for a swim?
If I self-identify as Ben Roethlisberger, do the Steelers have to pay me?
I wish that someone would self identify as a president of the US
Better yet, if I self-identify as Prince William, does that mean I get to bang Kate?
Yes, The Other Whitey.
Wait,, I want to self identify as Prince William too then…
?
???
Not fair. If I self-identify as me but 29 again, can I go hit on Prince Harry? I think I could snag him.
CAREFUL Ex-PH2, someone might tell Dave Hardin on you!
Okay. Maybe he’ll pay more attention, if that’s the case.
A girl’s gotta have her standards, y’know.
Jonn is not pleased with your last, PH2.
I once wanted to be HONDO… occasionally, a man has to recalibrate his sights!
I AM WILLIAM!
There can be only one HONDO!
The two trans guys in the article look a lot more convincing than SSG King. That burly one in the top photo looks like “he” has more testosterone than two average men.
If that individual has undergone female-to-male hormonal therapy, it’s entirely possible they do (or more) – especially if it’s self-administered hormonal therapy obtained through “other than normal medical channels.”
Synthetic testosterone is sometime used as a performance-enhancing drug in the athletic scene.
I tend to see this as concrete proof that liberals and the left not only CELEBRATE PERVERSITY, they stop at nothing to force it down everyone’s throat and anyo e that doesn’t accept it is racist, homophobic,…
Liberalism is truly a mental disorder.
Man; I thought it was bad when Clinton was president.
Sigh. Couldn’t we get the SJWs some dolls to play with instead of messing up the people who are trying to keep the wolves in woods and not in house. Coloring books maybe?
Stall, people; stall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCT4vN3_DH8.
(Not quite the clip I looking for, but it’ll do.)
He had to try on a female uniform in a public setting? Hey, Ortega, you’re a proud woman. Remember? Proud women try on their uniforms when the cash sales is open and people are there. Suck it up, buttercup. Life is hard. Buy a helmet.
I am so glad I retired before they turned my military into a social experiment.
Three serious questions.
So if a person self identifies as fat to the point of seeing themselves as fat (no matter how unhealthily skinny they may be, we call that a disease. How is someone seeing and feeling themselves as a different sex any different?
Why is self identifying as a different sex ok but why that chick who self identified as a different race a laughing stock? Aren’t there more scientific markers related to race than gender/sex?
I’m not a strong believer in privilege but wouldn’t a former man telling a woman that her female sex organs and experiences related to those (birth, menstruation) don’t define her as a woman be one of the biggest examples of male privilege in history? I mean, you don’t even need to have surgery and can tell women that their experience simply doesn’t matter. Why aren’t women absolutely up in arms about this?
Holden
Holden,
Caution, caution! You are stepping into the area of COMMON SENSE and are exposing yourself to danger from the SJWs of the world.
Why? Well, Holden, it’s because real women point at ‘former men’ and laugh loudly. Then we walk away, still laughing.
Three cheers for real women!
Thank you, SFC D.
Your brothers at TAH regard you and the other Lionesses as real women, and we’d back you in a fight. Funny thing is, we’ve never had to. You’ve all finished things quite nicely. That’s what real women do. We’re still back there, though
All-Points Logistics does not have these problems.
Just saying….
One look at he/she/it and I just thought “SHOOT IT BEFORE IT MATES AND LAYS EGGS!”.
Here’s a thinker:
If the SJW train continues on track at current speed, you’re all looking at:
CSM Patricia King, 6th SEAC in 2027.
Just got home to eat chow with Food Chain and I had to check on TAH Blog…and saw Claw’s comment about King being the 6th SEAC….
Suddenly have experience severe loss of appetite…nausea..?
Hmmm…if you put a Stetson on King’s Head and cut out some holes in the top and stick Donkey Ears in the holes, the guy/gal/??? looks like…..Nah, can’t be…
Heh, heh, heh…
Ask, if you really want to lose your appetite and have a bucket of brain bleach handy, just Google up the images of SSG Patricia King.
Especially the one image of it wearing a mini skirt while giving a hand job to the turret of an M1 Abrams.
That’ll make you give up eating chow for at least a week.
Here’s a teensy bit of history for you, so bear with me. In the Middle Ages, clothing was designed to be interchangeable between the sexes. A large part of that had to do with simple economics. Everything was handmade and making a simple tunic meant several days’ worth of work in the form of cutting, piecing, and hand sewing. I’ve made several Ren Faire costumes, and I know how complicated they can be to make and how simple they can be, as well. And then, during the Renaissance itself, when the middle class and the Guilds made prosperity more universal and trade routes widened extensively, a doublet was cut in several parts, and would fit both the lady of the house and the gentleman, as well as some of the older children, because the various parts of the doublet were laced together instead of sewn. The difference, by the time of Henry VIII, was that a man wore trunk hosen and stuffed-and-puffed pants called pumpkin pants, and women wore a chemise, a hoop, up to 7 petticoats, a forepart (underskirt) and and overskirt. This means that a man could wear my doublet over a shortened chemise (tunic) along with trunk hosen, garters at both knees, and pumpkin pants and if I wanted to wear the doublet the next time, he wore something else. It was simple economics, and it made sense. It carried forward into the very late 18th century, when women still wore the jacket over panniers and a skirt. Also, women were not allowed to act on stage until the late 18th century, which meant that all roles were played by men, including women’s parts. And homosexuality got you a death sentence. None of that is the case any more, and hadn’t been for some time. It does not excuse people like this trying to get a free ride from the taxpayers for something that is elective, and not medically necessary. As someone else has pointed out, the results are frequently not what was really wanted, after all, and the individual is NOT happy. IMHO, if these people… Read more »
I’m holding on to my pumpkin pants. I’ve found if you hold on to something long enough it comes back into style.
I still have a closet full of leisure suits from the 70’s.
Speaking of leisure suits, I have a buddy who is one of the funniest guys that I have ever known. Back in the mid ’90s, he wore a leisure suit to an official military social function where all of the rest of us were wearing sport coats and ties. He even had the white belt, white shoes, and a medallion around his neck to complete his awesome leisure suit ensemble.
It was one of the most hilarious damn things that I have ever seen. My buddy showed up at the event in all of his magnificent leisure suit glory and commenced to play it straight throughout the entire evening; he never even cracked a smile, which made it even funnier.
The reactions of the senior personnel (and their spouses) who were present were absolutely priceless.
“Back in the nineties”…
Thanks for making a lot of us feel old.
Funny story though..
Mini skirts and turtleneck sweaters. Some things never go out of style.
Ala the Mod Squad.
Oh yeah – and Thelma on Scooby-Doo…
Marsha Brady…
Almost MRS D looks really hot in my shirts, me in hers, it’s just not right. I do understand the economics of it though!
Fuggin’ twinks. This is the kind of crap one would expect to read in a bad fiction. I never thought I’d read about it happening in this country, let alone watch it happen in my lifetime. Makes me ill thinking what effect it’s having.
Exactly! You know this picture is posted prominently in every Russian infantry platoon’s office.
It has a CIB and jump wings. How can SSG King be expected to lead INFANTRY soldiers if he can’t even regulate his own behavior and appearance?
How is this even possible? How does this guy not get kicked out for non-conformity or failure to obey a lawful order or disrespecting a senior non-commissioned officer or willful misconduct or WHERE THE FUCK IS THIS THING’S CHAIN OF COMMAND?
This picture to me represents a complete and total leadership failure at about 7 higher levels of authority.
How has his PSG not knocked HIS ass down and shaved HIS head with a goddamn Gerber?
Near as I can tell from googling the interwebz, it is currently assigned to the Division Headquarters (HHC,4ID) at Carson. So you know what his Chain of Command is.
Where better to be? After all, Carson was and is the first VOLAR post.
Trinidad Colorado used to have a clinic down there that was “world renowned” for sex change operations.
If this “it” is serious, I’d say drive it’s ass down there and get it snipped.
You mean “snipped and tucked”? I’m still beside myself thinking that the current administration wants to fund that with taxpayers’ money.
Yep, used to be “Taking it to Trinidad” meant something.
But the old Doc has been gone since 2003, as well as the replacement snip&clipper who moved her practice to San Frannyland.
Nowadays, Trinidad wants to be known as the place where John Elway plays golf.
But as I’ve said before, if they want snipped and clipped, it’ll only take me about 10 seconds with a single edge razor blade to get the job done.
Haha, yep. Every time we’d do an FTX in hell, err Pinon Canon, we’d go through there and get a laugh.
Aah, PCMS. I know it well.
I spent almost 12 years on Carson.(77-81)(84-91)
Went down there for the inaugural rotation and broke it’s cherry.
Claw – who were with again at Carson?
My Smoke Platoon hit one of the first rotations down there too.
nbcguy, I worked out of the Bn Maint Shop in 4/61 ADA from 77-81.
Then I was the Bn S-4 NCO for 1/12 INF from 84-88.
Then the S-4 NCOIC for 1st Bde from April 88 until retirement on 31 Dec 91.
The cherry busting trip down to PCMS was with 1/12 about (I think) August of 85.
I even did a couple of NTC rotations in 4/61 back when we convoyed wheeled vehicles from Carson to Irwin. How’s that for some old time stuff? Hell, the jeep I drove for the Bn Vehicle Maintenance Warrant Officer was an M151A1. Yep, an A1. The new fancy M151A2’s were reserved for the Bn Cdr, Bn XO, and Bn CSM. The rest of we peons had to deal with A1’s. But of course, those were President Peanut’s years, so nothing was too good for the troops and that’s exactly what we got. Nothing.
1/12 had a big morning assault to kinda endex the rotation. The night before you were serving steaks to the BN to get them fired up. Our motley 14 person platoon was attached to blow smoke for the morning attack. We showed up the night before to get our steaks and the BN CDR ran us off and wouldn’t feed us. The next morning all of our smoke generators were mysteriously broke.
Nothing personal…
Hmmm, don’t remember anything like that for my first trip down there, but the next trip 1/12 did was while I was attending my ANCOC at Ft. Lee.
However, if the Bn Cdr who ran you off was that little dickhead by the name of Butler, or his buttbuddy Bn XO named Berriman, that wouldn’t surprise me a bit. Their time in command was not a happy time for the Red Warriors.
Sorry.
The chain of command knows that telling it to meet the uniform standards is an invitation for an EO complaint and the end of several careers, to include the CG’s.
Bullshit. If he wants to play dress-up, he can do it on his own time. This is absolutely insane, and his chain of command is flat wrong for allowing this to happen. I hope someone in his food chain is reading this, btw.
I didn’t say that it wasn’t BS, I’m just telling you what it’s like.
I’ve seen a line of good officers who weren’t confirmed as GOs because some soldier thought that he was being treated unfairly so s/he ran to the EO officer to file a complaint.
If you want to inculcate the SWJ mentality, you have to make sure that those who don’t tow the line are brutally punished, and the rest see the results. Eventually they’ll figure out that the pain isn’t worth it and follow along. Welcome to the reeducation camps.
I second that bullshit. Failure to meet the uniform standards as directed by a Senior NCO would result in a recommendation through the chain of command for an AR-15 on multiple charges, provided you supply the necessary chain of counseling statements describing the violations. That’s the the rope attention grabbers hang themselves with.
Just wait until they give him the Ranger Tab.
Freakazoids. Twinks. Chicks with dicks. Side show? No, this is today’s military.
Just remember to salute and never ever say “sir” or “ma’am.” It’s “yes, [fill in rank here]” and “no [fill in rank here].”
If it has a dick IT AIN’T a chick, period, pronto, end of damned statement!!
One of the frequent flyers we used to arrest repeatedly called it his “pussy on a stick”.
Get that image outta your head. :p
Just no.
My Dad was an NCO in a line outfit during WW2, he saw much combat, and he’d cry seeing what has happened to his (and my)beloved Army.
“They look like Phillis’s Diller and walk like Frankenstein”.
Is that cadence banned yet?
No one has answered the most important question yet, so you need to think about it.
As someone else told me, TGs and TVs have been using ‘opposite’ bathrooms for decades and no one noticed or said anything, because there was no ‘look at me’. This exhibitionist crap started up over nothing. The only time it ever came up in the news was when Christine Jorgenson underwent that procedure, but she’d been living as a woman for a very long time before that. That’s what you’re supposed to do, and not draw attention to yourself over it. just shut up and do your job.
So my question is this: why is someone’s sex life more important than whether or not they do the job as well as they can?
By ‘sex life’, I’m including these TG people who think their crotches matter more than the work they do.
I’m just trying to understand here.
What you may not be getting is that transgenderism is all “look at me” and little else. The, er, “young lady” featured above may want to keep “her” penis and continue to have sex with women. “Her” anatomy and sexual preference may not change, but “she” wants everyone else to recognize and celebrate that “she” is a “woman”.
Their motto seems to be “embrace my delusion”.
One theory? It isn’t, at least to the majority of people out there.
But the moment something like this happens, instead of people being rational and nonchalant about it, people go ape-shit on both sides – eg, this is an abomination, we’re all doomed, life as we know it is over vs. cries of violations of human rights, legislating sexuality, etc.
The more we decry what a tragedy this is, on either side, the more worked up the other side gets. If we all just minded our own business and asked the important questions -are you doing your job well? and not asking for more than everyone else gets?- then we’d be a lot better off.
But we can’t do that. Because {insert opposite political party} are destroying this country.
We can’t do that, because it’s not enough for the man that wants to be a woman or the woman that wants to be a man to go quietly into the public restroom of their “identity”, lock the stall door and do their business. They have to scream to the world that “I IDENTIFY AS A WOMAN BUT I HAVE A DICK AND I”M GONNA USE THE WOMEN’S RESTROOM AND YOU’RE GONNA ACCEPT ME!”
Just go piss and shuttup. That’s how the rest of the world does it.
I actually don’t think that’s the case — I think there are far fewer ‘activist’ sorts than people who genuinely just do go about their business. I mean, it’s not like transgendered sorts are suddenly a new thing this very month, right? It’s just the outrage -again, on both sides- that’s new. It stands to reason that the majority of the already-small population of transgender folk weren’t screaming at the top of their lungs before.
There will always be activist sorts. Can’t do much about that. But the way I see it, if you make the problem seem small, the people indignantly protesting about it seem foolish. If instead you make the problem seem huge -again, we have people saying this is a sign of the downfall of Western civilization!- then you give some inherent validity to the people protesting.
Me? I highly doubt we’re doomed as a country because someone without a dick wants to use the men’s room. Call me crazy.
You were actually MI? I is for intelligence. You rephrased my post and called it a rebuttal. There are tons of trans-this and bi-that and cis-this living their lives happily and nobody gives them a second thought, I think that’s called acceptance. But you have this other “activist” bunch that are really fucking things up for the folks that just want quiet lives and have had them. Now they’re poster children for a movement. Whatever Lars, You know best. Force feed us eneducated cretins.
I think we crossed wires somewhere here – I’m not Lars, I wasn’t MI, and I wasn’t crafting a rebuttal of any sort.
I was just clarifying that I think most transgender folk just go about their life. The few that make a big deal out of things shouldn’t have their cause celebre elevated to the level of national discourse.
I think we’re in general agreement, in other words.
LC, my apologies, I was typing angry. And we really do agree. We need a beer summit, I’m buying.
Here’s something else the left likes to squelch out. Liberalism is all about “Right here, right now” without any thought of consequences.
http://www.sexchangeregret.com/
Conservatives: “don’t do that, there’ll be terrible consequences”
Libertarians: “do what you like, suffer the consequences”
Lefties:.”do what you like, we’ll subsidize the consequences”
Pathology helps the left empower the state (“it’s so unfair, there ought to be a law”), the more people screw up the better it is for their purposes.
I think the LGBT community should absolutely treated equally as any other citizens and afforded all the civil rights protection of other discriminated groups.
I regard transgender issues to be based in medicine and science and not a question of choice or morality.
That being said there are countless medical conditions that prevent military service. Almost all of them through no fault of the person restricted from service.
It is not “fair” but it is because the medical condition is not conducive to military service.
Is gender identity dysphoria one of those issues?
I am not sure. I once thought it was but over time I have come to think that most gender issues can be resolved. The issue is not the person’s ability to function with their gender identity. The problem is with other people accepting it.
If someone is legally regarded as a man or a woman they use the series and wear the uniform according the the standards of their legal gender. Regardless if it was their gender at birth.
How is that an issue? The requirement for hormone replacement maybe?
I think if there is an issue with hormone replacement for a new recruit then like many conditions that prevent joining the service it should be regarded as incompatible.
However, there is separate regulations for retaining already serving service members. Conditions that would have prevented joining the service that are developed over their career that do not prevent continued service once they are already in.
I think hormone replacement would fall under that since many people receive hormone supplements for other managed conditions.
Lars,
If I had a Soldier such as the aforementioned individual, he’d be up on charges for conduct prejudicial to good order and conduct. He’s a distraction and a detriment to the mission. He disrupts the go-to-war training of his the Soldiers in his unit. He will consume 99.99% of his commander and 1SG’s time, and the unit will suffer. Ain’t nobody got time for that crap, boyo. That costs lives.
There have been times when social engineering in the military has been a good thing, although painful in the beginning. This can not have a good ending.
Then you would be violating federal law and the constitution. You have no right to prosecute someone for gender dysphoria. Courts have already ruled and the medical evidence is very conclusive that it is a medical condition. That gender assignment at birth was inaccurate or gender development was incomplete.
Gender is not really binary. All fetuses start as the same gender and final gender identity is reached through a very complex process that involves brain, physiology (hormones), genitals, and other systems.
This is a process so we all end up on a broad spectrum with respect to gender identity. In most cases our brain gender matches our genitalia. But even them some people have hormone imbalances. Others times brain and genital development is not the same.
Additionally, in a percentage of births the gender of the infant is uncertain. Since the child cannot be asked they do a few blood tests and make a “best guess” based on the tests and the developed genital structures. Often the surgically correct the genitals to match the assigned gender.
This at birth gender assignment is sometimes wrong.
Attempting to prosecute a young person that chose to serve their country and has gender identity dysphoria is an appalling thing to do. You would be relieved of your position and likely prosecuted for doing so. And you would deserve to be.
Fortunately, “SFC D” as an NCO you did not have UCMJ authority so it would not have been up to you whether they were “up on charges.” and the commander, after consulting with higher and legal counsel most likely would have concluded that your recommendation was idiotic and premised in bigotry and he would have dismissed your recommendation. Assuming he did not see it for what it was and needed to ask for guidance in the first place.
The Soldier would not be prosecuted for gender dysphoria. The Soldier would be prosecuted for conduct prejudicial to good order and conduct. And after multiple counselings (properly documented) and my own discussions with JAG, I could, and have made the charges stick. I am fully aware of the fact that I cannot prefer charges against a Soldier. What I can do, and any NCO worth a pinch of shit can do, is document a pattern of misconduct. You may say I’m baiting the Soldier, and it’s entrapment. Negative ghostrider. I can simply document everything. Oh, you say I’m misusing counseling? I counsel the Soldier on the fact that his actions fail to meet the standards set by the U.S. Army, and how he can meet those standards. The Soldier then fails to respond in a positive way. He continues the conduct. His choice. Eventually that Soldier is escorted to the gate. I’m really good at that.
SFC D, You’re using logic and fact and Commissar is severely allergic to both. I wonder just how many times Commissar got CS’ed while in a porta-shitter in the Middle East?
Gender may not be binary; but you sure did skim over a lot of gender taxonomy with your platitudes. If you are going to use “science” and “medical”; you might want to be scientifically correct and to the point.
Cheers and good luck on your sex change.
Just to be clear. I am not calling you an “idiot”. Smart leaders make idiotic decisions all the time.
I do think you are a bit of a bigot.
Especially since it is not up to an individual soldier whether the military conducts “social experiments.” That decision comes from well above the soldiers level.
So your discontent with the soldier is misplaced. They are responding the the changes being implemented by the pentagon and changes being set by federal and supreme court precedent as well as changes to regulations with respect to LGBT service in the military.
None of these changes are the soldier’s so punishing the soldier because you are unhappy with changes made by people with lots of stars or high government or judicial positions is not fair to the soldier.
“I had to go through this experience at a public time … and try on this uniform in a public space and basically be humiliated because everyone in the space is going to go, ‘Why is this male soldier trying on this female uniform?’ ”
Yet….
While official Pentagon policy still forbids openly transgender personnel, [King’s] commanders have been supportive, [King] said. King even purchased a female dress Army service uniform, anticipating that [King] would be able to wear it soon.
“I made a decision that owning that uniform was important to me, and I believe that our leadership is going to do the right thing,” [King] said.
What uniform do you think he should wear? Male uniform Monday, Wednesday and Friday and skirts the other days?
OCPs are not gender specific. So it does not matter except when wearing a dress uniform.
Which in the vast majority of assignments happens less than 5-6 days per year.
If she is transgender she wears the uniform of her gender identity. How is that difficult?
Seems pretty obvious and easy to solve to me.
Really, what is the big deal?
You’ve never led Soldiers so you really have no concept of the effect that one soldier (small s intentional) like this can do to a unit. True leaders see the big picture of making the unit (platoon, company, battalion, on up) combat ready. You see this one SSG, feels like a woman, and we stop what the Army gets paid to do in order to make him feel welcome. You do remember what the Army gets paid to do, don’t you Lars? You nodded off at OCS that day didn’t you. You got gold bars as a participation trophy
No shit Sherlock. HE bought a female dress uniform but cried like a little bitch when HE had to go and get fitted for one prior to his visit to spew HIS transgender bullshit at the Pentagon.
By the way, is HE transgender or is SHE transgender?
So does being transgender get you the perks of being gay and lesbian, whichever you feel like being that day?
Does a male transgender get maternity leave, you know since he self identifies as a woman?
Can a male transgender pretend to breast feed, you know since he self identifies as a woman?
Can a male transgender get light duty for “that time of the month”, you know since he self identifies?
Can a male transgender get separation pay from his counterpart female transgender, you know since they self identify and all?
Can a male transgender truly be “one of the guys” or “one of the girls”?
If someone cannot decide if they want a dick or a pussy or play dress-up, how the fuck can they make decisions that could possibly get their fellow soldiers, sailors, Marines or airmen killed?
Before you tell me how wrong I am, you should first know that I don’t give a fuck.
Discontent? Bigot? I don’t care if the 1 kid in my platoon of 50 is gay, bi, trans, pick anything you want. He does his job and carries his weight, I don’t care if he sticks it in watermelons on saturday night. But… when it becomes a distraction and disrupts the operations of my platoon, he’s gone. Prejudicial to good conduct and order. It’s legal. It’s not his “identity” or “orientation” that gets him booted. It’s his actions.
“I don’t care if he sticks it in watermelons on saturday night.”
Holy shit, I choked on my popcorn!
ex-OS2, I apologize and the next bag is on me! But you got my point… that Lars guy, I don’t think so.
No problem at all SFC D, I stock boxes of popcorn. By the way, thank you for your service.
And thank you for yours!
Hi Lars missed you.
If a male solder wares a female uniform but is not transgender is that solder a transvestite? If so should that soldier punished under that UCMJ thing?
I hear that SSG King (Queen?) will be staring in the next X-Men movie…
Hey Lars-here’s a hypothetical I want to see a lefty answer: let’s say that a young man meets a young “woman” in a bar. “She’s” cute and seems feminine and comes on to him. So they head back to his place where they make out and “she” blows him. He’s all about it, until they get to the bedroom where he discovers the truth and throws “her” out. What are his rights in such an encounter? Can he claim to have been sexually assaulted? Does the tranny have a duty to provide full disclosure (I mean if “she” identifies as a “woman”, “she’s” a “woman”-right, so why should “she”)? Does he have the right not to engage in a homosexual act by deception after the fact?
Rape by deception is not easily enforced in the US as a crime.
It is enforced in some countries and there has been a few attempts in the US to charge rape by deception with little success since the laws are not written that way.
Generally, it would be a civil suit and hope that a jury is sympathetic to how violated he feels getting a blowjob from someone different than they thought they were.
Keep in mind that in many cases someone that has had gender reassignment or has pressed the correct documents they are legally the gender they identify with. So it would be tricky to try to prove there was deception from the standpoint of the law.
I think transgender folks have a moral responsibility to disclose their gender dysphoria before sex. But I am not sure they are legally required to do so.
Primarily I consider this a civil matter not a criminal matter.
So essentially what you are saying is that after he is decieved into engaging into a sexual act that runs counter to his sexual preference he is on his own in pursuing any justice? That the state should not offer him any assistance or protection? Somehow I think that if we ran the hypothetical in another direction (say if a young man were cross-dressing for the purposes of going to lesbian bars and picking up gay women so he could grope them) I think you might give a different answer.
If a woman is drunk, she legally can’t consent to a sexual act, therefore it’s rape.
If a man is drunk, and gets a blowjob from what he thought was a woman, that turns out to be a guy named Big Johnson, then wouldn’t it be fair play to say the male blowee was drunk and couldn’t legally consent to the blower’s services? Ipso Facto, rape.
Yes, if the person was drunk and could not legally consent the blowjob could prosecuted as rape.
It is harder to convince juries that men are raped by women but convincing juries women are raped by men is tough on it own so not all of the difficulty is one sided.
However, the issue of consent with respect to being intoxicated would have nothing to do with the gender identity of the transgender person.
OK… let’s parse this out.
A drunk woman, cannot consent because she’s drunk, gets oral sex from a man.
It’s rape
A drunk woman, cannot consent because she’s drunk, has sex
It’s rape
A drunk man, cannot consent because he’s drunk, gets oral from a man he thinks is a woman. He finds out it’s a man.
Not rape?
It is rape but it has nothing to do with it being a man.
Whether the person is a man or not is irrelevant to whether it was rape.
The only thing that is relevant was whether he was too intoxicated to legally consent.
Thank you for your response tonight Judge Judy Lars. Bet you’re all liquored up and puffing on a big Cuban.
Cigar.
Would you hop in the sack with Mr. King? You know, to show support.
A man, Consented to a blow job from what he thought was a woman, then finds out it was a man…AFTER the happy ending. Was he raped…
This is turning into the old joke about the hooker that didn’t know she’d been raped till the check bounced.
Jack and Jill went up the hill
Jack thought he’d taste Jill’s candy
But JACK GOT A SHOCK AND A MOUTHFUL OF COCK
Because Jill’s REAL name is Randy.
How many male “folks” identify as females and vice versa in our military forces?
One would be too many, ex-OS2.
This subject matter has my gut churning. Think I`ll got take a big _______(Fill in the blank)