Images of war as propaganda?
Just A Grunt sends us links to a Democratic Underground “discussion” about a Huffington Post article written by Michael Shaw who types while staring at his navel and ruminating about the photos which accompany his article;
…[I]n the aggregate this is a stunning display of American chauvinism given the intimate framing of the war in such a redundantly heroic narrative, all eyes on our warriors as saviors on high.
Just A Grunt reminds us that the three media sources which bring us the pictures in the article are attempts at recreating one of the iconic images that came out of the Vietnam War on the cover of Life magazine;
See how chauvinistic? American military personnel are Americans before they’re anything. They are the kid that used to deliver your morning paper and mow your lawn…they weren’t raised on a soldier farm somewhere. They truly care about each other, they fight in your name, too, but mostly they fight for each other.
They don’t need your asinine pontifications and analysis. Mostly they just need you to shut your fucking mouth for a few minutes while they do the job you don’t have the guts to do. The job you’re quietly glad they do without accepting your own responsibility for the reason they’re there in the first fucking place.
Those hippies should really be afraid of their stupid rhetoric triggering some violence.
Category: Antiwar crowd, I hate hippies
“There is no one so blind as one that will not see.”
Or something like that. Close enough, anyway.
“…All eyes on our warriors as saviors on high.”
They’ll do just fine until the real article comes along, I think.
“Those hippies should really be afraid of their stupid rhetoric triggering some violence”. You mean like someone might take some 2nd amendment remedies towards them?
Who knows Joe, maybe they’ll ‘they’ll bring a knife and we’ll bring a gun’, or we just need to know who they are so we can ‘kick their ass’.
No, Joe, what I mean is; if you say something that you know will make someone want to punch you, you should expect to get punched. How fucking hard is that to understand?
Addressing the article and DU responses, the rabid anti war crowd, and the ‘hippies’ I suppose, are so disconnected from mainstream America it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad…
Jonn,
It’s hard to understand when the 2nd amendment fanatics shed croodile tears over shootings, and repeatedly play the victim card, and advocate that more guns equals more peace, and then go and make threats, not even veiled threats, against people they don’t agree with. That’s the part I don’t understand.
There isn’t much you DO understand, Joe.
Joe, how exactly do you come to the conclusion that the tears shed by 2nd Amendment advocates are insincere?
And why do you consistantly dodge the fact that the left, Obama included, are just as actively engaged in violent hyperbole and rhetoric as everyone else?
Joe, I will say this for your arguments: we never have to wonder which side of the fence you’re on!
Cases in point:
“2nd amendment fanatics”
“crocodile tears”
“play the victim card”
I predict that this discussion will rapidly degenerate…
Joe, that is because you’re working too hard to not understand. You’re also failing to make the argument for a just means of applying accountability in un-civil debate.
As for the article, the author may be the victim of a drive-by clue-catching. Art as propaganda! Really? Whodathunkit? Another group of neo-cons have been created. Now for the mandatory marriage-and-a-mortgage gestation period to be complete…
Joe; are you still clinging to your bs notions about guns and rhetoric? Weren’t you firmly and quickly proven wrong with those little tidbits called FACTS? Your logic has been proven to be not just twisted, but planted deeply in the realm of fantasy. We have shown you exactly why your logic is flawed, with both common sense and actual excamples, yet you still come on here babbling incoherently with a drizzle of drool running out the corner of your piehole with the same lame ass argument and statements. Are you waiting for new talking points from your communist overlords, or are you just that thick between the ears?
I see you looked up the definition of “crocodile tears” since the last time we talked, Joe.
Joe,
If a skinhead walked up and began verbally abusing inner city kids with racially charged language, resulting in a butt thumping, would you say he got what he deserved? or would you condemn the violence?
Personally, I’d call it Darwin in action.
Now, when the elitists of the anti-war crowd continually slander Our Troops, they may well be hoping for a violent reaction, but it in no way diminishes the Darwinistic aspects in play if they’re the recipient.
The fact is that Our Honorable Veterans and Troops continue to demonstrate restraint and maturity, using their 1st Amendment rights, rather than their natural instincts to overcome the slander. It is hypocritical of the slanderers (and their apologists) to use their bully pulpits to invoke a violent reaction while then condemning Veterans for noting that it is the basic human reaction that they continue to avoid.
While neither Jonn nor I espouse the violent reaction, I will still call it Darwinism in action should someone fall prey to that temptation. I don’t speak for Jonn, but I do believe we agree that the 1st Amendment is our best means of countering the idiocy. And of course, the best ammunition the 1st Amendment affords us, are the words of the idiots themselves.
Thanks for playing. There is no such thing as too much ammunition in a heated battle.
I read the Huffington Post article. It is very clear that Michael Shaw is appalled that the war journalists found anything heroic about our military. If those pictures had been of wounded Afghan children, he would have unhesitatingly called them “poignant, the cost and pain of war” or something similar.
I would remind Mr. Shaw that those are OUR children. And the blood and pain and sacrfice in those pictures is no less real or poignant because the blood is seeping through an American uniform.
I’m glad you could make it through the entire thing, PN. The blatant contempt and vile references caused me to E&E halfway through.
I’m sure you got the gist of it, ROS. You didn’t miss anything, at any rate.
On a more cheerful note, though…it is encouraging that those war journalists saw what they did and took the pictures they did. I would guess that they were not afflicted Shaw’s blindness.
“…(by) Shaw’s blindness.” Sorry.
When considering the question of leftists, particularly those for whom assuming a mantle of tyranny comes easily and naturally, given their egos and inflated sense of entitlement, I am reminded of the following quote. Those on the left would do well to ponder upon it’s significance, and the fact that our own legions have, to date, NOT responded in such fashion. It isn’t, I assure you, that our good soldiers haven’t pondered the issue, and thought “what if…”
———————————-
“We had been told, on leaving our native soil, that we were going to defend the sacred rights conferred on us by so many of our citizens settled overseas, so many years of our presence, so many benefits brought by us to populations in need of our assistance and our civilization.
“We were able to verify that all this was true, and because it was true, we did not hesitate to shed our quota of blood, to sacrifice our youth and our hopes. We regretted nothing, but whereas we over here are inspired by this frame of mind, I am told that in Rome factions and conspiracies are rife, that treachery flourishes, and that many people in their uncertainty and confusion lend a ready ear to the dire temptations of relinquishment and even to vilify our actions.
“I cannot believe that all this is true, and yet recent wars have shown how pernicious such a state of mind could be and to where it could lead.
“Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
“If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions.”
Centurion Marcus Flavinius, Second Cohort, Augusta Legion to his cousin Tertullus in Rome.
One of the important things Shaw is referring to is media consolidation. You see the same homogenized (corporatized?)stories and the same photos wherever you look. They may be “our children” as PintoNag points out, but soldiers are also profit centers for many companies, as is the war itself. It takes corporations to fight a just war, but one has to worry about the tail wagging the dog.
WOTN, please don’t use the term “ammunition” when discussing the 1st Amendment. It frightens me and is right wing vitriol. I may pee myself.
Scared in SC.
I’m doomed genetically to be, shall we say, “intense” by nature, but Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ on a cracker the insanity you spew makes me see red, Joe.
Please substantiate your theory that “soldiers are profit centers”.
AW1 Tim,
I do not doubt for a second the noble intentions of many soldiers who believe they are “going to defend the sacred rights conferred on us”, as you quote puts it. But their lofty intentions can be exploited by less scrupulous, more powerful people who have learned to manipulate those noble sentiments. And corporations have become so adept at tugging at our heartstrings that we should maintain a healthy sense of skepticism.
Just love to see how they blame the Military for this and not the editors.
These shots are much sexier than the rolls of film shot of my MiTT team dedicating a new school that were never published.
Of course the DU crowd aren’t happy without the pictures showing the “millions” of killed and maimed civilians in the “hundreds” of incidents that happen everyday but are hidden by the corporate media.
Joe,
It’s not the corporations to which your own fury should be directed. It is the High Schools and Colleges who have failed to instruct our youth on the the concept of critical thinking.
Unless our youth are taught to differentiate between fact and opinion, to understand what is ACTUALLY being said, then nothing will be accomplished.
But then, our Universities have, themselves, become corporations, for-profit institutions, so perhaps they are intentionally denying our youth the skills they need in order that the schools might stay in business.
If we can reinstitute the concept(s) of critical thinking, and reaffirm our commitments to free men and free markets, then our nation has a chance. If not, then we are indeed doomed to becoming another hellish “worker’s paradise”, another rung on the socialist’s ladder to hell.
That was an amazing quote, AW1 Tim. Thanks.
AirCav,
I didn’t mean to frighten you. My intent was to wake up Americans and scare those that prefer tyrannical oppression of Free Speech.
The current debate in the wake of Tucson, as well as debate that precedes it, attempts to limit the 1st Amendment protections.
“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” Thomas Jefferson
“It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.” Daniel Webster
The 1st Amendment protects objectionable speech. If it’s not objectionable, it needs no protection as it will not be suppressed.
1st Amendment gratutious largesse: Weapons, Guns, Targets, Ammunition, War, Combat, Battle
Why? Because I can!
1AirCav-
That comment required a spew alert!! Coffee on screen…:)
BTW Joe, have any idea what the largest corporation in the US is? The United States Government.
Do you know which corporation is bigger than GM, Chrysler, and Ford? Yep, the UAW, from which they lease employees.
When was the last time you voted for Treasury Secretary, Labor Secretary, or Director of Arts? Yeah, I haven’t either.
If you don’t like the way the IRS or DEA is handling your case, what options do you have?
If you don’t like the way Ford is building cars, you can buy Govt Motors, or even Toyota.
If you don’t like the taxes and services of New York, you can move to New Hampshire. It is the reason for the 10th Amendment. It is so important they said it twice!
#19 Joe:
Yes, many news outlets use the Associated Press and Reuters as their sources for stories and photoes. Outsourcing journalism in this manners saves the paleo-media a lot of money; but it opens them up to valid criticism for two reasons.
The AP and Reuters have had an anti-America bias for decades, and they aren’t afraid to admit it. After all, they have the corner on the journalism market.
The second reason is access. Criticism of the President leads to having one’s press credentials denied, or being excluded from access to the calendar of events and so on. Access is more important than the story as it lends credibility to the masses. AP, Reuters, and Editors will write whatever needs writing. Paleo-media survive today on a diminishing aspect of credibility. Strip them of access, and they close their doors.
Add to AP and Reuters the possibly-present, and former JournoList and Townhouse groups and you’ve got access to all of the paleo-media stories and Democrat talking points.
You’re correct in seeing the similarity in reports and speeches. You’re not as correct in failing to name the sources.
#22 Joe:
The type of manipulation you are talking about should definitely be guarded against, or at least recognized for what it is.
But if I may redirect your attention to the photos at the top of this thread, and in the Huffington Post article for a moment? I would say this: don’t let your understanding of political manipulation stop you from looking closely at the men in those photographs. They are real. They were hurting, they were bleeding, they were caring. If someone uses those men, or their images, for political manipulation, that should be recognized and stopped. But don’t let the politics involved jade your heart or blind your eyes to what was happening when the cameras froze those moments in time.
PintoNag,
Yes, you’re correct. I have cried over photos like those from Iraq and Afghanistan, as I have over pictures of Bosnia, Viet Nam, and WW II. As a very young kid I grew up on a steady diet of WW II – post-battle scenes like Tarawa, Iwo Jima, D-Day, Dresden, Hiroshima, the Death Camps, and on and on. Scenes of battle, injury and death have been indelibly burned into my brain – as a kid you remember that stuff because you can’t yet make sense of it. But I cannot just take photos like that at face value. I won’t go into the contentious politics of the two wars we now fight, but I will remind you what Deep Throat said – “Follow the money”.
People don’t change. There are men who would pimp their own mothers on street corners for a buck. But if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that you don’t take photos like those above at face value because you suspect them of being fronted for political ends? (If I’ve misunderstood your meaning, please correct me, because I’m working from that assumption below.)
I would be more likely to hold that suspicion in the case of photos that are “staged.” As an example, a photo of a military parade, or perhaps one of those classic “soldier back home from the war” photos. Those photos can be anticipated and even prepared for, to a certain extent. Anyone interested in using the military for political ends can easily manipulate such photos for their purposes. You know…the “feel good” photos.
I would disagree with your premise with the photos above. They are too raw, too painful. Intense emotional response is never something that power brokers like playing with, because it’s like herding cats with a helicopter; they cannot predict, with any certainty, which way the people reacting are going to go.
When is Violence the Answer?…
The pacifist crowd is quite curious. While they would have us believe that “violence is never the answer,” a great deal of violence is committed in the name of pacifism. The unreported attacks on Miltary Recruiting Offices, University Laboratories, a…
> If those pictures had been of wounded Afghan children, he would have unhesitatingly called them “poignant, the cost and pain of war” or something similar.
You know what is funny though–My husband is at Wolverine in Afghanistan. He routinely medavacs Afghan children, some that their OWN people have blown up…When does the military become noble in these idiot’s eyes?
melle1228, please thank your husband for his service. And tell him not to worry about what the idiots think…
The REST of us know exactly how special they all are. 🙂
Seriously, Joey, Deep Throat? You equate what those pictures are about to deep throat and political theater like Watergate? I don’t remember who or how many said it, but I agree, you’re a fucking idiot.
Do everyone a favor, go back to DU or Kos, you’re a waste of oxygen and electrons around here.
Thank you Pinto Nag much appreciated!
If you don’t like the taxes and services of New York, you can move to New Hampshire. It is the reason for the 10th Amendment. It is so important they said it twice!
Don’t encourage him. He’s the reason we got stuck with Queen Jeanne the Spending Machine, Hodes, Shea-Pelosi, et al. We finally woke up in November and tossed as many of them as we could out on their asses.
I’ll say it again – most of the soldiers in the US military serve for noble reasons. You guys on this blog have a very strong sense of patriotism, let’s assume for noble reasons. The photos in question show injured soldiers who presumably have the most selfless (not selfish, selfless) reasons for serving. Having said that, isn’t it possible some people in the corporate world, and perhaps some of our representitives beholden’ to them, would capitalize on, and exploit those honorable sentiments to make a buck? Isn’t that possible? How does my stating that possibility tarnish the honest, forthright motivations of the soldiers. Could it be that even the mention that your motives might be exploited for profit gets you mad?
Joe: the original article and this thread had to do with the opinion stated concerning some war journalism photos.
You have been consistently beating the corporate exploitation drum here.
Let’s get to specifics. What form of exploitation concerns you where these photos are concerned?
Darn, just wrote out a post, and it disappeared into cyberspace. The TAH website told me I was posting too quickly, slow down, but my post appears to be gone. Gave it several minutes to reappear, but it’s a goner. PintoNag, the potential for conflict of interest between corporations, news organizations and elected representatives is a huge topic, better discussed over a beer or three. But I’m afraid I’ve gotta get back to productive activity. I do look forward to seeing your thought-provoking posts.
Thank you for the kind comment, Joe. I might be able to direct you to an answer to your line of thought, though. If you haven’t already done so, read “WAR” by Sebastian Junger. I think you would find Mr. Junger’s observations most interesting.
Speaking of Sebastian Junger, I haven’t yet read “WAR”, but I did see his movie “Restropo”, twice. Weeks later still processing what I saw. In fact, as I write about it, I feel a tear welling up. Remembering the line from “The Bridges at Toki Ri”, “Where do we get such men?”. I’ll try and get “WAR”, although in this crazy life I find it hard to find the time to sit down with a real book. But that’s what I struggle with, the nobility of those guys in “Restropo”, vs. the motivations of the guys in the corporate boardrooms, the news organizations, and the halls of power. Really got to go this time…..
Joe: the most blatant corporate exploitation are the unions and the party that they pay.
Rich & Poor are not good and evil. Rather, the extremes of life excentuate the true characteristics of the individual. That is true financially as well as in combat. Fortunately, few morally impoverished infiltrate the US Military, but the most atrocious embody the ranks of the enemy.
Do the likes of Jack Murtha attempt to utilize the DoD budget for personal and corporate profit? Yes, and body armor and uniform changes highlight that.
Does that mean that the War in Afghanistan is not in our National Interests, and only the result of corporate and political greed of powermongers like Murtha was? No. It means that politicians will attempt to use any situation to increase their power.
To see the contrast of US Troops and our enemy see: http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/afghanistan/
In yesterday’s news alone, the enemy murdered 13 Afghan civilians, while US Troops saved the life of at least one wounded Afghan civilian by the enemy.
Our Troops provide schools, clinics, medical treatment while the enemy continues to attack the same. We’ve never fought a more atrocious enemy, but in helping Afghans and Iraqis defend their own democracies, those enemies have fewer resources to attack American Citizens.
>How does my stating that possibility tarnish the honest, forthright motivations of the soldiers. Could it be that even the mention that your motives might be exploited for profit gets you mad?
Because Joe it feeds into the narrative that troops are uneducated, hicks who “don’t realize” that they aren’t fighting for patriotism and their fellow soldiers- but rather for the profit of the big, bad corporation. I would take the intelligence of the war, weary infantry man over a civilian blogger everyday. Most soldiers have been educated, but they also have something most civilians, bloggers etc. don’t have-life experience.
Everything that WOTN said, we are doing over there. My husband is doing over there. My husband is a blackhawk pilot in Afghanistan flying medavac. He is flying just as many Afghanis as he is our soldiers.
So yes as a military wife when you say things like it makes me mad, but not because “their motives our being exploited.” But because you assume that they are victims, and that they don’t know any better.
melle1228,
No, I don’t condescend to assume soldiers don’t know any better, although I’m sure soldiers, like the rest of the population, run the gamut as far as critical thinking skills go. No, it’s that corporations have become so good at manipulating us, even the skeptics among us don’t know when their strings are being pulled. Last year I heard of an Australian historian who listed the three most important watershed events in modern history – 1) the rise of mass production, 2) the rise of the corporation, 3) corporations perfecting their ability to munipulate popular opinion thru advertising/propaganda. So no, I do not think all troops are “uneducated hicks”, although there may be a few (and if your husband is a blackhawk pilot, he’s probably a lot more skilled and intelligent than me), rather I don’t underestimate the diabolically effective schemes of people whose only god is money.
Maybe, geniuses that we are compared to the civilian population, according to the latest research, we’re manipulating corporations.
Actually Joe I would go the other way. It is not the Corporations that are manipulating us, it is We that want to be manipulated. You can see clear evidence in the 2008 DNC and really ALL of the campaign. There were so many questions, especially disturbing ones which were downplayed. We saw caricatures of Sarah Palin, that people assumed to be factual. We saw a presidential candidate that had NO experience or really any concrete answers, and he rode that wave into the white house.
Likewise corporations can not afford NOT to advertise. People want things to me cool and amazing, like Magic at their fingertips. But we discard our toys, and celebrities as long as the next sexy shiny thing comes along. It is the first rule of success in business is: GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT. So then if they follow this rule, by researching just what it is we want how then are they manipulating us?
These pictures are not propaganda, or lies. These are some of the most intimate and honest moments of war, and really Life in general. as a medic I can tell you, being that tether that binds someone to life in their last moments, is one of the most powerful moments a person can experience or do, regardless of the setting. when someone looks you in the eyes with that wordless fear, that desperation that says “am I going to die?” and you look back calm and cool and say with your confidence “not if I have anything to say about it.” that is not manipulation or propaganda, that is Humanity at its best.
How is it, Joe, that you’re just so damned smart that you can see through the schemes of these big, bad corporations, yet we’re just too obtuse to see it?
I am in awe.
DocBailey,
I would maintain that in addition to giving us what we want, they have gone a step further to create demand for stuff that we may or may not need. Some would say that for our consumerist society to exist, companies must create demand where none exists. Someone like Steve Jobs can actually create totally well-designed new products, even entirely new categories of products, that capture the imagination of the public. But the more common flip side is companies convincing us that we absolutely need the latest new and improved fabric softener.