Rumor Doctor looks at the fifty-cal
I heard this rumor throughout my career, but I never paid much attention to it. It seems to me that the Army wouldn’t give me a primary weapon in the cupola of my M113 if I couldn’t defend myself with it. But the Rumor Doctor looks at the use of the devastating 50 cal. Ma Deuce against dismounted troops.
Legend has it that the .50-caliber is so powerful that the Geneva Conventions prohibit U.S. troops from using it against human targets, but does that make sense considering it is okay to fire much larger artillery shells against enemy troops?
Find out the truth at the link.
Thanks to the Rumor Doctor hisself for sending us the link.
Category: Military issues
Back in the day when I was assigned a sector in the Fulda Gap our company had 2 Vulcans, those multi barrel .50 caliber gatling guns designed for anti aircraft fire attached to them. I remember our commander telling the head of the unit that when he picked out his position he needed to make sure that they would be able to depress the barrels to engage targets in the open area to our front. We weren’t too concerned about the aircraft but those 30 gazillion tanks and BMP’s on the other side did sort of make us nervous.
Yeah you can use the .50 caliber against troops, it doesn’t really cause too much suffering since any human hit by it pretty much is put out of their misery right away.
Just a wrinkle to add, when I was in training at Fort Sill we were told that we were not to use them on enemies that were parachuting in. Again, the rationale was the Geneva Convention. None of us ever looked it up, that I know of, and since I was fortunate enough to never serve in a hot war I was never tempted to either do it, or look it up.
This was a specific topic when I was in IOBC, and the answer was that the rumor was BS. Fire the FPL with every gun you had.
The military now has a sniper rifle in .50 cal, doesn’t it? It would make no sense to have such a weapon if the caliber was outlawed for use against enemy troops, would it?
iirc, you’re not supposed to shoot aircrew that have bailed out, unless they start shooting first, but paratroopers are fair game, since they are active combatants.
since i’m retired reserves, i don’t have to worry unless the PLA hits the beach at Santa Monica.
We had always heard the it was illegal to use against personnel since it was considered an anti-material weapon. The justification was that enemy combatants were wearing material and the gunners were shooting the material off of their bodies.
Of course, it also was followed with a good laugh since we all realized that it didn’t make sense to have .50 sniper rifle if it was illegal to use one on people.
Just A Grunt, got a question. Were those Vulcan AA guns .50 or 20mm? I’d always thought they were 20mm but I’ve found that there are a lot of variations on things. Just curious…
….the .50-caliber is so powerful that the Geneva Conventions prohibit U.S. troops from using it against human targets….
as opposed to something more humane, say like a murder vest, a car bomb, an IED, etc. If it were not to be used, (which it isn’t), would both sides be using the same playbook.
To me, rules of war should be that the only unfair fight is the one that you lose.
Per Stonewall, we were told to aim for their load bearing vest, helmet, or weapon in OBC. And yes, the Vulcan is 20mm. And no, I’m not an air defender.
There have been several variations of the quad 50 cal. I know I saw one during VN.
I do love ol’ MA Deuce. I had some training with The Lady, but never fired one in anger.
I stand corrected. The Vulcan was 20mm, but whatever it was there was something about that brrrrrack sound that was reassuring. That is until I heard the whine of a A10 and teh brrrrrrrrrrrap of that 30mm gun. Oh yeah and I never heard any prohibitions about either being used on human beans. I loved teh Ma Deuce, although once or twice I actually got a headache because of the flame coming from the barrel.
One other word of advice. If you place a 50 cal into a fighting position complete with overhead cover and lots of sandbags and a small firing port make sure to have plenty of hearing protection and leave your mouth open cause the concussive blast while firing is a bitch. Your hearing normally will return shortly after your ears quit bleeding.
Every now and then some jarhead would ask this question when I was an amtracker in the Marine Corps. A nice smack to the head with the explanation that if you can run them over with the amtrack then you can shoot them with the .50 Cal. Would also ask them why they thought there was .50 Cal ball ammo.
When we upgraded to the Upgun Weapon Station, it was nice to get rid of the M85 .50 Cal and get the M2 along with the MK19. Damn M85 was like using an elephant gun; one shot then clear the jam.
I was told that myth. I believed it. Also after getting my Geneva Card told that if I ever used anything larger than an M-4 then my ass would go to jail. Or at least my “protected status” would go out the window. I’m not sure about this because I heard of a Medic from 1st Cav that got the Silver Star for jumping on a 240 B after the gunner was killed.
This tidbit of horse shit has been around so long it has, like me, gray whiskers.
If it was a violation of the Law of Land Warfare/Geneva-Hague Conventions…whatever, then I violated that “law” thousands of times (if you count each round as a violation) during my SEA vacation tour back in 1970.
Mea fucking culpa…
If you got hit by a .50 cal, you would not suffer much at all. Get turned inside out yes, but very little suffering would be involved. Those thing will pull your head out through your asshole no sweat.
I do enjoy the way you have framed this situation and it does indeed offer me some fodder for thought. Nevertheless, because of what precisely I have witnessed, I simply wish as the opinions stack on that people stay on point and not embark on a tirade regarding some other news of the day. Yet, thank you for this excellent piece and although I do not necessarily concur with the idea in totality, I regard your point of view.
Guess what is on the Marines CH-46 and CH-53s as the guns? Only one try if you said the Ma Deuce , you are right. I never accepted that myth. I was always jealous of the 46s,our UH34Ds did not have a strong enough airframe to keep the .50 breaking loose during firing. Joe