Redstate reports that MG Donahue ordered 50-100 people off last flight out of Kabul to take a war trophy

| October 4, 2021

Major General Chris Donahue, commander of the U.S. Army 82nd Airborne Division, XVIII Airborne Corps, boards a C-17 cargo plane at the Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul, Afghanistan. Maj. Gen. Donahue is the final American service member to depart Afghanistan; his departure closes the U.S. mission to evacuate American citizens, Afghan Special Immigrant Visa applicants, and vulnerable Afghans.

Poetrooper sends in that Redstate is reporting that Major General Donahue, Commanding General of the 82nd Airborne Division and who was the on-the-ground commander in the final days of the Kabul debacle, is said to have ordered everyone off a C-17 so that a war trophy could be loaded. Of course, when people went to re-board the plane, there wasn’t enough room.

From Redstate;

In what’s been described as a photo that “may become an enduring memory of the end of the U.S. war in Afghanistan,” Maj. Gen. Christopher Donahue walks toward a C-17 transport plane at the airport in Kabul, Afghanistan, the last US military member who had boots on Afghan soil.

In a number of articles penned in the following days, Donahue is characterized as “uniquely qualified” for that moment in time and generally depicted as a humble, understated leader of his division.

Unfortunately, everything isn’t quite as it may seem. During the last hours of the evacuation, according to troops under his command and as documented by photographs and witness statements, Donahue ordered all of the passengers aboard a C-17 transport plane to disembark so he could have a souvenir loaded onto the plane. That souvenir, or “war trophy,” was an inoperable Taliban-owned Toyota Hilux with a fully operational Russian ZU-23 anti-aircraft autocannon mounted in the bed. Once the Hilux was loaded passengers were allowed back on the plane, but, of course, there wasn’t room for all of them. According to troops on the scene, at least 50 people and perhaps as many as 100 people were left at Kabul to make room for the Hilux.

It is believed that many of those left behind have been or will be killed by the Taliban, in part because of information allegedly provided to Taliban commanders by Donahue himself. We already know that he was in direct contact with Taliban commanders that day; Gen. Frank McKenzie, commander of the US Central Command, said in a press briefing that:

“[O]ne of the last things [Donahue] did before leaving was talk to the Taliban commander that he had been coordinating with about the time that we were going to leave just to let them know that we were leaving.”

Multiple sources within the military and the intelligence community have revealed to RedState that Donahue’s coordination with the Taliban that day included more than simply letting them know that we were checking out early. These sources say that Donahue provided the Taliban with a full manifest of passengers aboard the flights including passport information, photos, and biometric information for those passengers. The flights included US troops, Afghans who were employed by the Department of Defense, key human intelligence (HUMINT) assets, and other SIV applicants and their families.

Now, I can’t fault the man for wanting to have a Toyota Hilux. Those trucks are awesome. It would obviously be misguided to bring one back in the place of people that need evacuating. There could be legitimate reasons for this, such as taking the ZU-23 AA cannon for intelligence purposes. Since that gun type has been in service for six decades, that would initially seem unlikely.

Redstate got some videos of the loading of the Hilux though, they report;

Some of the soldiers that were tasked with loading the Hilux onto the C-17 did not want to assist Donahue in this endeavor and took photos and videos to document what was happening. Transcripts of two videos have been provided to RedState.

In one transcript a soldier loading the Hilux remarked:

“Nothing says American success and prosperity like a ZU-23 in the back of a Hilux.”

Another pointed out that under “standing orders” war trophies aren’t allowed:

“I thought we aren’t allowed war trophies per the standing orders. They court martialed [name redacted] for trying to smuggle a pocket knife he took from the Taliban.”

Another soldier responded:

“You are not a Major General. Shut up and push.”

And, a soldier who refused to participate said:

“I want nothing to do with this because war trophies = war crimes.”

Another soldier asked about the proper documentation for the war souvenir:

“Why wasn’t a DD603 war souvenir registration/authorization completed?”

The reply?

“The general doesn’t need such a form.”

One soldier said that Donahue’s second-in-command gave this reasoning for bringing the Hilux home:

“[I]t will serve as a symbol in the 82nd Airborne Division Museum on Fort Bragg of how the Division came into a chaotic situation and by confiscating the Hilux from the Taliban we quickly regained the tactical advantage in order to complete the mission.”

It’s stunning that Donahue believes we had the tactical advantage at the Kabul airport at any time during the evacuation.

Category: "Teh Stoopid", "Truth or fiction?", "Your Tax Dollars At Work", Afghanistan, Army, Taliban, WTF?

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Commissar

If this is true, and it appears it may be, this guy is a dirtbag.

ChipNASA

I’m stealing this…um, for….later editing…..and reference…I mean….”use”.

Commissar

?

What are you anticipating?

ChipNASA
Jay

….AND NOW IM DEAD……

Commissar

I am flattered you put in the effort.

ChipNASA

That my man, is *high* fucking praise.
I’ll take that kinda shit from you.
HAHAH!
Really, I mean that.
Bruh. *fist bump*.

Commissar

*fist bump*

Hatchet

FRAUDULENTLY flattered?

Thunderstixx

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!!!!!
“IT DOESN’T GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS” !!!!!

Frankie Cee

BAAAhahhaa, LMAO!, Chip.

Sapper3307

SPLASH!!!! OVER!

Graybeard

Center of the X-ring ChipNASA.

KoB

On Target…Fire for Effect!

Hatchet

And continue to barrage…

Green Thumb

Word.

SFC D

I can recall a certain E9 getting themselves in a bind concerning “war trophies”. She suddenly and very quietly retired. Kudos to the troops who refused to participate and blew the whistle on this.

KoB

US: “Trade you 80+ billion in State of the Art US Made equipment for a wore out Toyota sporting a 60 year old AA Gun.”

Them: “Done!”

26Limabeans

Should have held out for the undercoating…

Martinjmpr

Yah know they put that on at the factory.

Anonymous

The “Warlord” package with the buily-in sat phone…

Thunderstixx

I wonder what’s behind door number three ????

SFC D

I wonder what’s in Carol Merrill’s box?

USMC Steve

Here is what will really happen. That fucking gen gen will keep the Toyota and drive the thing around. As for the illegal antiaircraft gun system, if he ordered it brought into the country he committed four felonies, one each for the illegal destructive devices called 23mm cannons that he cannot bring into the country. To get away with that they would have to have been deactivated before they left, and I can find no… Read more »

Commissar

None of this sounds accurate at all.

MarineDad61

Commissar,
Certainly unverified… by anyone with any integrity.
Comment below, targeting the source (RedState).
Mason (and Poetrooper) should know better.
Here we go again.

Jay

ChipNASA, paging ChipNASA….your presence is requested on this thread….

ChipNASA

Oh I’m here today but I’m only commenting on relevant stuff..or not.
I just try to generally (AS TO SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!?!?) not take TAH too seriously.

MarineDad61

Jay,
Plenty more to see on the
“J6 Politcal Prisoner” article.
By thebesig.
And by a handful of frustrated commenters.
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=118045

Martinjmpr

MD: Have to concur with you on that one. This site is much more interesting as a MilBlog dedicated to military/stolen valor issues than as another right wing echo chamber. One thing I always admired about Jonn was his intellectual honesty. Jonn was a conservative guy, and never denied his conservative leanings. But he was also never afraid to call out someone on “his” side of the political fence for SV or other bullshit, nor… Read more »

Commissar

I am talking about USMCSteve’s narrative.

It is completely ridiculous.

MarineDad61

Ok.
Obviously, I am referring to the article.
And the source.

Commissar

I replied to the article in my initial post above.

Source notwithstanding.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neanderthal B Woodman Domestic Violent Extremist SuperStraight

And so are you, SPAPOS.

PETDRSAHNBWDVESS – if I may gently amend – THAT’S SPAPOS- Dirt-bag…

Hatchet

Nah. It’s just YOU, Lars…

Hatchet

*shrug* Nothing you say is accurate. At all..

AND?!

Anonymous

No, not at all… 😉

MI Ranger

Filling out the DD603 aside (As the Senior on sight Commander, in the rank of O-8, it is likely he is the approving authority to retain such an item). The possession of destructive devises is authorized for the US Military. While it is used/retained on a Military Reservation it is not subject to laws and oversight of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. I’m sure he just wanted another lawn ornament for his legacy… Read more »

Steeleyi

Individuals generally cannot claim war trophies. Units, especially those commanded by GOs, routinely take war trophies. I am simply not convinced by the rest of the story. For one, a C17 can carry an M1 tank or 2 bradleys, and something like 4 Strykers. I have personally flown in the back of a c17 with 4Strykers and on one occasion a number of uparmarmored low visibility civilian vehicles. A single pickup would not take up… Read more »

David

HiLux longbed is over 16′ long and over 6′ wide. How many desperate people you think could fit into 96 square feet?

Jay

Conservative estimates are you can stuff someone A to B in a 1×1 box. So go ahead and say the MG Donahue killed 96 people because he wanted a shiny toy to take home.

Steeleyi

Maybe 25, seated on the floor. Pax seated nut to butt will take up at least 3 square feet, probably more like 6. Who knows, they could have ramp loaded it and lost no pax space. I have JMd and safetied C-17s many times, and I was a school trained Strategic Mobility Planner. I’ve also flown in the back multiple times, both as a jumper and more than once just sleeping on the floor. I… Read more »

rgr769

That is how pax were moved by C-130’s in the RVN, seated on the floor in rows, with a a load strap across our laps.

timactual

I used to think that strap was a miserably useless seatbelt, then one day I came to the conclusion that the strap was actually meant to keep the “cargo”, us, from sliding to the rear and causing center-of-gravity problems.

Never enjoyed those flights; it was terribly difficult for the stewardesses to roll that drink cart around.

Ah, good times.

Sapper3307

I was not authorized to bring home an AK bayonet in my duffle. But the USPS/APO worked just great.

Martinjmpr

Did they change the rules later in the war? I have an AK bayonet I bought at the Bagram Friday Bazaar, complete with the “war trophy” paperwork in 2003.

Hell we had guys who brought cannons home. Old, muzzle-loading civil-war type cannons. They paid a hundred bucks or so for them and I heard they sold them for thousands of $$ when they got back home.

Anonymous

We can’t bring home anything fun any more. 🙁

MI Ranger

Yep, just fill out the DD form 603-1 and wait for approval. I think what everyone is missing inmost of these cases is someone forgot or did not want to wait for approval. Unlike the saying “It actually is much easier to ask permission than to beg for forgiveness later…to the judge!”

Commissar

I tried to send a small toy tank made of welded scrap metal I bought from a stand in Afghanistan. It was about the size of a can of soda. The postal employee at Kandahar said it can’t be sent through the mail. I asked “why not?…she said because weapons cannot be shipped through USPS. I replied “it is not a weapon…it is a little toy tank.” To which she responded with certitude and resolve… Read more »

Anonymous

And you want healthcare (you know, single-payer) run like that?

Hatchet

Commie-czar-ZEK snivels: October 4, 2021 at 2:40 pm – I tried to send a small toy tank made of welded scrap metal I bought from a stand in Afghanistan. Awww! Starting a set are we..? – It was about the size of a can of soda. Uh huh.. – The postal employee at Kandahar said it can’t be sent through the mail. I asked “why not?…she said because weapons cannot be shipped through USPS. Interesting..but… Read more »

Commissar

You are so weird.

Commissar

And she wasn’t basing this decision on the declaration form. She based it on inspecting the content of the box. At Kandahar when you wanted to ship something, you had to bring your shipping boxes to the counter unsealed. They literally searched them before sealing them and accepting them as postage. I doubt they did that kind of thing at your military school when you were a kid. But that is how it worked in… Read more »

Hatchet

Commie-czar-ZEK snivels yet again: October 5, 2021 at 12:16 am – And she wasn’t basing this decision on the declaration form. Important detail – why didn’t you include that in your previous wank, rather than seemingly making it up as you go..? – She based it on inspecting the content of the box. Still knocking it out of the park with no logical sentence composition, no applied syntax and lots of broadly applied kindergarten spelling,… Read more »

TDG

A Cpl at the Camp Dwyer military post office would not let me ship a discarded Scan Eagle propeller home when I sent my foot locker, since the propeller had “blades”.

Anonymous

You can’t make up stupid like that.

timactual

No, but you can commission it.

MarineDad61

TDG, Our unit in the Saudi desert had an amnesty box (May 1991, 2 weeks before we left the desert for the airport parking garage) for voluntarily turn in of anything that we should’t try to ship or sneak. 6’x3’x3′ engine box, upright. I was 1 of the few who could look in over the top without a box, step ladder, or doing a pull up. 2 days in, I couldn’t see the wood bottom… Read more »

timactual

Sounds like you two may have been related.

Martinjmpr

So…what you’re saying is that a flag officer did something that would have gotten a lower ranker court martialed?

A general did something for his personal aggrandizement that imposed a burden on lower ranking troops?

I’m shocked. SHOCKED I SAY!!!!!

Commissar

Was a moral burden on lower ranking troops.

It was a life threatening burden on those he forced off the plane.

Blaster

If they were letting pro sit on the floors of the aircraft, without seat belts, just to get them out, why could some of those that had to get off of the plane not sit in/on the truck? I also have a hard time seeing how that truck required an area that resulted in 50-100 people having to get off. 20, maybe.

Blaster

People, not pro!

Also, I meant for this to be a post at the bottom. Accidentally came as a reply to your post.

Commissar

The truck took up more space than it provided seating.

Also the tie down straps and the area around a vehicle needing to be clear displaces a lot more,space than the footprint of the vehicle itself.

100 deems like a high number for it to displace. But 25-50 seems likely

Hatchet

Commie-czar-ZEK snivels: October 4, 2021 at 5:30 pm – The truck took up more space than it provided seating. Load-master..? – Also the tie down straps and the area around a vehicle needing to be clear displaces a lot more,space than the footprint of the vehicle itself. And again, it is good that you have such a profound grasp of the OBVIOUS, Lars. 100 deems like a high number for it to displace. But 25-50… Read more »

Hatchet

And it is good that you have such a profound grasp of the OBVIOUS, Lars..

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neanderthal B Woodman Domestic Violent Extremist SuperStraight

Different ranks, different spanks.

MarineDad61

Here we go again.

How about a better, more honest, and more reliable source than RedState?

[RedState Publishes, Then Retracts
Bonkers Claim There Was No Capitol Riot
Updated Jan. 11, 2021]
https://www.thedailybeast.com/redstate-publishes-then-retracts-bonkers-claim-there-was-no-capitol-riot

SFC D

Wrong thread.

MarineDad61

SFC D,
Not when the source (RedState) for this article
has a history of publishing crap,
and then being forced to delete much of it.
Will the linked article even be there in 48 hours?
Therefore, correct thread.
Thanks.

SFC D

If you say so. You and thebesig are just gonna start waving your dicks at each other again anyway.

MarineDad61

SFC D.
Nope.
Mason is not thebesig (as far as I know).
No need to reply to thebesig any further.
A handful of others helped square that thread away.
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=118045

SFC D

No, but I saw Elvis. He’s tending bar in Bisbee.

MarineDad61

Mason,
I’ve seen Dave H on TV,
at least the internet coverage of Dave H on TV,
speaking about Stolen Valor.

I’ve never seen Dave H with you, either.
Or thebesig.
Or Elvis.

Curious if SFC D’s Elvis sighting was recent,
or way (way) back.

SFC D

2010, at St. Elmo’s.

Ret_25X

and daily beast doesn’t?

OK

Commissar

So you acknowledge assertion? Red state and Daily Beast are both unreliable?

SFC D

I read both regularly. I try to see all sides. I have more trust in Redstate but I’m skeptical of all “news” sources.

timactual

FFS, none of the media is reliable, particularly immediately after the alleged event. Like your investment portfolio, diversity in “news” sources and reserving judgement prevents a lot of bad things. As I recall, even the National Enquirer occasionally finds an acorn.

Poetrooper

Marine Dad says, “Not when the source (RedState) for this article has a history of publishing crap, and then being forced to delete much of it.” Are you implying, MD, that Red State is not a totally reliable source like CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post, TIME, Newsweek, on and on ad finitum? It occurs to ol’ Poe that most of of us who tarry here are well aware that a… Read more »

KoB

“TINS…there I was, with nothing but a half opened can of peaches and a P-38 between me and…”

MarineDad61

Better suggestion… Mason can sit on and watch stories like this for 48 hours, and see if they hold up, get verified, or get debunked and vanish (POOF). (From my comment on another article thread.. [As I tell my friends o’ friends on the Book of the Fake, dating back to the 2012 election… which really picked up during the 2016 election (and hasn’t let up since)… (Humorous variations of this, with farm fresh photos… Read more »

Poetrooper

Mason, perhaps you guys ought to just turn site content and operations over to Marine Dad, since he could obviously do it so very much better than yahoos like you and Ed and Ex and Hondo! And of course, that right-wing lunatic, the besig… Why not put his image up there on the masthead with Jonn’s, as I’m sure our founder wouldn’t mind sharing marquee space with someone so eminently qualified to tell you, me… Read more »

5JC

Ok so The Daily Beast is hardly the paragon of precision in reporting. I believe they have lied about every police shooting they have ever covered for the express purpose of inflaming racial tensions.

SFC D

I had the same reaction. Using The Daily Beast to discredit Redstate is like trying to clean up catshit on the floor with a dog turd.

timactual

That is indeed difficult. On the other hand, cat shit is usually fairly easy to handle,easier than dog shit anyway, and can be useful in the cleaning up of dog shit. I won’t go into details.

And I won’t answer “How do you know?”.

I will say that “…til death do us part” needs more forethought than it usually gets.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Look, just because one of the guys who founded the site had to resign his Washington Post position over plagiarism issues doesn’t mean it has a history of being inaccurate…

Poetrooper

Rightfully observing the standards set for us by our esteemed Commander-in-Chief.

Ol’ Poe can get on board with that…

5JC

And just like the CiC, took money from a foreign government for favorable treatment.

David

Besides, just because it’s plagiarized doesn’t mean the original info isn’t accurate.

rgr769

“Fake but accurate.” The watch words of Gunga Dan Blather.

“Courage,” boys.

Claw

Gunga Dan – 111 days active duty.

SFC D

You can’t put something on the internet if it isn’t true.

Anonymous

–Abraham Lincoln 😉

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Besides, just because it’s plagiarized doesn’t mean the original info isn’t accurate.

True enough but it does tend to mean you can’t claim it’s your info and story and get paid for the work others have produced…

That’s the very definition of lying rat bastard.

timactual

That’s what I said.

5JC

While the claiming of war trophies as personal property is a complex process it is doable. I have flag from Jesh Al-Mahdi that they were no longer using. However; no one would ever approve the taking of an anti-aircraft gun system as personal property. That thing will put up at Ft. Bragg somewhere as a signature to yet another defeat of powerful US Forces by under resourced, under equipped indigenous forces. Why anyone would want… Read more »

David

4×4 Hilux alone is 4600 pounds. So if the guns weigh 1200, 5800 pounds divided by a buncha skinny Afghans comes out to around 50 folks in about 1.9 square feet each. Sounds to me like 50 is a pretty reasonable estimate.

Steeleyi

You are allocating a space of less than 18 inches on a side. Kind of unrealistic. Also, a C17 can carry about 170,000 pounds in cargo. Plus, people could have been loaded in and on the vehicle.

Poetrooper

Thank you 5JC for pointing out that is the weight of the truck and weapon more so than cubic space that would be the primary consideration…

Steeleyi

A C-17 is usually cubed out before you hit weight restrictions. It can fly with an M1 tank (70+ tons), or two Bradley’s, 4 strikers. Donahue is a career paratrooper. He’s spent as much time in a C17 as many aircrew. He is a jump master, familiar with loading pax and equipment, and he is probably Strat Deployment Planning qualified (most airborne unit officers go to school as 1LTs when they are Company XOs). This… Read more »

Poetrooper

Dang if it ain’t pissin’ when ol’ Poe’s righteous outrage gets beaten into submission by superior knowledge and experience…

😝😝😝

timactual

I think it’s the squares (area) more than the cubes. Hard to stack passengers vertically.

ChipNASA

As a pallet pusher and a pax herder, I would be ashamed to tell you stories as far back as an Iraqi AA thingie that was DS/DS era that sat in the corner of our warehouse that we used to sit on and spin around in, at Andrew AFB back in the day, that someone arranged to airlift it home, thinking they were going to have it “mounted” outside the Port. Funny CE/SPs/Base Commander/Secret Service… Read more »

Steeleyi

Every unit I have been in had a museum and static display full of captured vehicles, weapons. Flags, uniforms. You name it. I was n the 292st, and we had nazinflags captured at bastogne, VC battle flags, and an Iraqi tank. Same in 2ID in Kore and af Lewis, same at Bragg, same everywhere. Tanks, BMPs, BTRs, even a Zsu-23 and a ZPU.

Anonymous

Always wondered why a div cdr HAD to be over there when it was only one (1) bde of his… had to get it on the spt form, a cool trophy and the Mel Gibson from We Were Soldiers shot.

Andy11M

Also gotta justify that that DSC for service he’s probably going to get for this goat screw.

rgr769

Well, Gropey hisself said the whole op was an astounding success, so the MG will be using that line for years to come at the cocktail parties when he gets choked up about operation clusterfrack.

timactual

“There I was, standing alone in the face of a horde of hostiles. Now that I had secured the safe withdrawal of my men in the face of overwhelming odds it was just me and the Taliban, face to face….”

Sapper3307

Former DELTA commander, he ran the entire operation.

Anonymous

Then Skippy knows better… they should ask his female subordinates about stuff, too.

Poetrooper

Ol’ Poe has to wonder if it’s Delta protocol to have the unit commander, especially if he’s a two-star, to be the last troop to exfiltrate?

Or did someone just happen to see that as a cool career move and a great conversation piece at future cocktail parties?

Great book and movie title, too:

Last Man in A-Stan…

26Limabeans

I recall reading somewhere that the first man into Vietnam was a radio operator
and the last man out was also a radio operator.
It was either the book “Tragic Mountains” or “Kiss the boys Goodbye.

timactual

I am surprised it wasn’t a photographer–to record the historic entrance/exit of the Fearless Leader.

Anonymous

Since Hal Moore’s speech in We Were Soldiers, it’s become obligatory for every commander (even of a CSS unit deploying to Kuwait) to say the following. (Had a Bde Cdr in ’03 say the exact thing, verbatim, then go UA to “liaise” with “the rear” for 10 days when sh*t got hot, so I’m kinda annoyed when folk try to copy the movie for cool points.)

Steeleyi

He was there because it takes a GO and a division HQ to provide
Mission command of two brigade equivalents plus attachments and log support, an aviation component, air defense, coordinate with the Air Force, work with allies and the interagency, and negotiate with the enemy.

Poetrooper

Ol’ Poe is of the opinion that MG Donahue’s dramatic “I am the last man” exit was somewhat akin to MacArthur’s “I have returned” wading ashore in the Philippines…

Steeleyi

Maybe. But that photograph did wonders for morale in the war. Along those lines, I find it fascinating that we have a good leader who took on a tough mission and made the best of it, and everyone wants to turn him into a war criminal based on a poorly sourced story. I wonder who would want to foment and inflame distrust in American military leaders these days? Donahue is a solid guy. He’s been… Read more »

Poetrooper

Then ol’ Poe will sincerely accept your professional judgment of MG Donahue with no further criticism.

To all here at TAH, he will admit to being wrong about a fine soldier.

As a veteran of Vietnam, Poe is keenly aware of being victimized by false reporting.

Ol’ Poe stands corrected in the mater of General Donahue…

SFC D

“I wonder who would want to foment and inflame distrust in American military leaders these days?”

American military leaders are doing it quite well themselves. Good leaders get splattered by the shit the bad leaders spread.

Anonymous

His rationale for volunteering, of course, when he asked pretty please.

Sapper3307
Sapper3307
Hatchet

Commie-czar-ZEK, Donahue, Milley = Band of DIRTBAGS

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

When the Marines were told that their Helo ride to Santo Domingo (OP Power Pack 1965) to support the existing troops was cancelled, all the small arms ammo and other munitions that were issued to the Marines were thrown overboard. I managed to get a couple of empty ammo boxes and when I went through the Norfolk NOB gate, the Gate rat Marine confiscated the empty boxes.

sj

Power Pack. Damn I’m old. I was there in 2nd echelon with 82nd. One my fondest memories with the Army…then 3/82 and 1/101 in the nam of the viet.

SteeleyI

You guys are ready to hate because you hate Biden. Donahue was sitting at a Bragg when the phone rang. He didn’t pick this mission or even dictate how it would be done. He was handed a bowl of chicken shit and told To make chicken salad. Of course it takes a GO on the ground. There was a Joint and Combined force in contact, and it required coordination and synchronization between forces from three… Read more »

Poetrooper

SteeleyI, if you’re who I think you are, you’re barely old enough to qualify as a grumpy old bastard like so many of us here. While you have immeasurable military knowledge based on first-hand combat experiences, you have zip when it comes to being a grumpy old bastard. So, while we recognize your skills and knowledge in your fields of expertise, will you exhibit the professional courtesy to grant us the same degree of recognition… Read more »

Steeleyi

Ok, grump away. I think you guys are piling on one of the last actual combat leaders willing to stay with it. I see it every day. There are LTCs and COLs and senior NCOs with decades of combat command experience that are just getting out rather than walking the ever narrowing path between the demands of the left and the right and deal with this kind of backlash. Most of them have opinions but… Read more »

Poetrooper

Nah, not so, at this point we’re not piling on Donahue. I think you can see how my opinion and attitude towards MG Donahue have changed. He may still be a Hollywood handsome showboat, as witnessed in that dramatic Kabul departure, but again, Douglas Mac Arthur gave the world ample proof that showboats can still be damned effective military leaders. We’re gonna need him and a shitload more like him in coming days. As far… Read more »

Anonymous

Chicoms gonna chicom, you can count on that– it’s just a matter of when now.

steeleyI

Being Hollywood handsome IS a cures. Many of us suffer in silence…

Poetrooper

Sure “cures” your modesty, Colonel.

But not your apparent failure to spell-check. 😆😆😆

Anonymous

Poe, 1; steeleyl, 0

Anonymous

Nope, ready Bde of the 82nd Abn went like any other such 911 mission it’d have. He got the phone call (FYI, we’re deploying your Bde) but he had to ask, pretty please, to go as the rest of his Div stays at Bragg (and, gosh, might be needed so he ensures it gets ready) instead.

SteelyI

Nope. That’s not how it works. The Marines, Air Force, and Army troops weren’t all there independently working for different commanders, they were there as part of a Joint Task Force. CENTCOM would have requested a force package with appropriate Mission Command capabilities. Like it or not, a MEU, which is essentially a brigade task force, can’t do this. Neither can an Airborne Brigade Task Force. This takes a division HQ. Donahue wasn’t there to… Read more »

Anonymous

He asked pretty please and higher said okay.

SFC D

If it takes the division commander on the ground to run an operation this size, then there’s a serious leadership failure below him. He either does not trust his subordinate commanders or he is grandstanding.

steeelyI

He was commanding what was essentially a division sized operation with extremely complicated command and control relationships that required coordination with CENTCOM forward, the entire Joint Force, and negotiations with the enemy. Remember that there was elements of a MEU on the ground, a brigade of the 82nd, some NG troops, some troops from 10th Mountain, a bunch of combat multipliers, air defenders, logisticians, and at least some Army aviation (the Apaches). This was a… Read more »

steelyI

Well, of course none of this is true. I don’t think the truck made a bit of difference in how many people were evacuated, and I think this story is most likely propaganda planted to divide us even more. Here’s what really happened: A guy that was there on Day 1 of the War on Terror (or as the Aussies call it, The War Against Terrorist), was also there on the last day in Afghanistan.… Read more »

timactual

“You guys are ready to hate because you hate Biden.”

Horseshit.

steeleyI

Great insight, and a truly convincing argument. Thanks for sharing

If this story was on MSNBC or Huffpost you would all be up in arms in the other direction.

MarineDad61

Here we go again – Part 2 – With chart data and a link. No impartial evaluator of news content is perfect, and all are subject to criticism. (I get it. (Wink)) So, here we go. The Ad Fontes Media Chart. It’s not only informative, but entertaining and educational to view the chart positions, primarily to compare media sources. The 2-D X-Y chart plots news sources based on RELIABILITY (High number is good), and BIAS… Read more »

MarineDad61

Note 1 – Citywide Verizon DSL internet outage yesterday,
restored early this morning.

Note 2 – Anyone asking about other news sources, comparisons, or critique,
you’ll need to look it up yourself.
I just used up my allotment of free custom searches at Ad Fontes Media
on their Interactive Media Bias Chart.

Poetrooper

MD, we’ve been down this Ad Fontes Media road before. As a quick look at their chart will show, they are anything but an unbiased source for determining bias.

Anyone who doubts this can easily satisfy himself of this by perusing all the hard left/Democrat mouthpieces that are ensconced in the middle or just to left of middle of that scale.

timactual

Sssshhhhh. You aren’t supposed dig that deep.
That pesky “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes” thing again. Or that “It’s turtles all the way down”. It’s just not polite to actually think for yourself and ask questions.

timactual

You dare to question “authority”!!
How right-wing of you!

MarineDad61

(paste) Martinjmpr says: October 4, 2021 at 4:06 pm MD: Have to concur with you on that one. This site is much more interesting as a MilBlog dedicated to military/stolen valor issues than as another right wing echo chamber. One thing I always admired about Jonn was his intellectual honesty. Jonn was a conservative guy, and never denied his conservative leanings. But he was also never afraid to call out someone on “his” side of… Read more »

MarineDad61

As for thebesig, (while I was without DSL internet service) he went totally irrational and delusional last evening, on me AND several others. It’s all here.. This is just 1 example. (paste) [thebesig to C2Show] I laugh at his posts too, just as I laugh at yours. Again, I take sadistic pleasure with engaging in arguments like this. I would not have been doing this for 18 years if I did not take pleasure in… Read more »

timactual

Thank you, but I think at my age I have obtained enough wisdom, knowledge, and experience to make my own judgements about reliable information sources.

AW1Ed

Now that this has spiraled out of control, a few points please. I back my editors 100%, in public.The VERY few instances where I need to apply some gentle stick and rudder are conducted in private. I caution my folks to use due diligence when posting, cross-referencing when possible, and use care with single source news items, especially from certain sites. Task and Purpose comes to mind. Sometime this is not possible for any one… Read more »

MarineDad61

AW1Ed,
Thank you. 🙂

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Shit shows like this build the hit count at least…

And it shows regardless of what some DWs might think that we are not of a single unified mind on a great many topics….

Disagreements vehemently articulated make for healthy and vibrant Blogs Mil or otherwise….

Jefferson would call this the “animating contest of freedom” and was far more preferable to his line of thinking than the rather peaceful nature of servitude…

AW1Ed

Hit count? Heh. I’m Lar’s biggest fan.

Doubt the feeling is mutual.

Poetrooper

That hit count is one reason I have long argued against banning Lars–the other is that his comments do represent an alternative view. Ditto that, but to a lesser extent, for LC. VOV and SteeleyI are probably the closest thing we have to moderates who regularly post. After all, no one at TAH is preventing leftists from coming here and presenting their views, are they? If Marine Dad, Martinjmper and others want a more moderate… Read more »

Martinjmpr

Shit shows like this build the hit count at least… Maybe they do, but to what end? I wonder how many veterans wander by because of some link on another site and when they see the front page covered with your standard fare of right wing, pro-Trump/Anti-Democrat articles, they figure it’s just another blog filled with right-wing rants and move on. Or even the old timers like me who have been here for at least… Read more »

Veritas Omnia Vincit

You’re not wrong…was just trying to lighten it up for AW1Ed…

Nothing you said is wrong, there’s a reason you don’t see me posting much…I’ve been busier than ever but to be honest other than Ed not sure my thoughts are that welcome when they don’t fit the mold.

sj

I’m an old timer here (miss Round and Heavy Chevy) that has cut back my visits because of many of the things said in this thread. I came here for the military stuff. I go to Ace for political and humor. Just a data point.

LC

I agree that getting it always-right with articles is impossible; I sent in the article about the mom who claimed to help evacuate the all-girls robotics team from Afghanistan… and that proved to be wildly inaccurate. It happens. What is pretty wild, though certainly not unique to TAH, is what I would call the ‘group-think’ responses to an article based on the source or write-up of the original article. I suspect that if we went… Read more »

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Folks like echo chambers though… The reassuring sound of every other voice echoing your own thoughts is what drives confirmation bias throughout the land…. Our current politics as expressed on social media are nothing if not clear examples of group think. As one of those despised unaffiliated voters who leans libertarian (note the small l) it is always interesting to see which whistles get which dogs barking and for how long. The problem with any… Read more »

nobunny

FWIW: I’ve been mostly lurking for 9 years. I stepped on my (figurative) crank when I first came here, and heard about it. It was painfully embarrassing, I am not a big forum/blog person. But I kept coming back for the diverse views, unique insight, lively debate, and the acerbic wit. I’ve commented where I felt qualified to do so. I always shoot for brevity. I’ve also stopped reading, most recently for a few months,… Read more »

KoB

nobunny, don’t let his drivel drive you away. I make a very spirited attempt to just ignore him, until he just blatantly runs his mouth. The I make my point and ignore the rest of his blather.

‘sides that, I scraped them whiskers off offen my jaw/cheeks. I like flyover country.

nobunny

You’re sweeter than Southern sweet tea KoB. You’re one of the reasons I keep reading. 😉

KoB

Awwww…shucks (*blush*kicks at dirt). Don’t tell nobody that, I gots a reputation to uphold.

Poetrooper

Nobunny says, “I’ve also stopped reading, most recently for a few months, because of Commissar’s reprehensible tactics.” Which is exactly what you shouldn’t do, nobunny, because you are then rewarding Lar’s bad behavior. And when you admit that he is your reason for turning away from the site, you are confirming to him that his abusive tactics are working. By the way, as your sweet tea Georgia sweet pea will likely confirm, you of the… Read more »

nobunny

You’re another reason I keep coming back Poe. I just needed a break.

I have heard that idiom, just not in a dog’s age. 😉

Poetrooper

Thank you, nobunny. I would hope I do not offend too many too often.

Another saying lost to contemporary intolerance–we can’t say the perfectly innocent, “In a coon’s age”, anymore, can we?”

It’s so sad how much of our authentic American culture is being lost to America’s Cultural Revolution.

nobunny

Political correctness begat cancel/woke culture.

It’s gone from you can’t smoke in here, to you can’t smoke at all, you can’t say that, you can’t eat that, you can’t think that pretty quickly. We’re headed for a homogenous society.

USMC Steve

Nobunny, I have found that if I ignore Lars’ postings, I waste less time, and I lose nothing. Try that. He has nothing worth reading anyway. He is an irritant, like CS gas.

steeleyI

I appreciate the complement, although I dont appreciate being misgendered. That is sarcasm, a form of irony. Many find humorous, few can detect it, as can be seen frequently here.. My politics are complicated, much like my personal life. I would have described myself as extremely conservative a few years ago, but sadly I have seen both sides trample on the Constitution and sacrifice the future of the country for political points in the present.… Read more »

Poetrooper

Steeley says, “I have strong religious views, which almost always put me in opposition to the left, but occasionally with the right as well.”

I’d say that the difference between “almost always” and “occasionally” is what puts you in the conservative camp.

timactual

But the customer is always right!!

“…and questionable articles are posted. It happens.”

Unlike, of course, Real publications like the NYT, etc.

Berliner

At least the media accurately covers the crack head son of President Dementia (10% to the big guy). /s

Mentions of the son still holding financial interests in China or selling his “art” for $75k to $500k and not having knowledge of anything about the “buyer” and the crickets hold a concert.

Just wondering how the Secret Service detail turns a blind eye to the crack dealers doing deliveries.

trackback

[…] LPH 3 forwards to us this Task & Purpose report on MG Donahue’s war trophy we talked about earlier this week. According to the report, the 82nd Airborne’s spokesman says that nobody was ordered off an […]

MarineDad61

Update – FALSE.
Mason reports with an update 3 days later.
Thank you, Mason.

[More on the 82nd Airborne’s Taliban war trophy
Mason | October 7, 2021]
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=118224

Engineer14

Donahue was my Company Commander when I was in A.Co, 2/75, or Second Aryan as it was known elsehwere on Ft. Lewis. His arrogance shined through like only that of a USMA graduate can. The racism towards the CSM Hugh Roberts, the Holocaust denial and general anti-semitism, visits by Rangers to see friends in Coeur d’Alene (Hayden Lakes), Rangers reading The Turner Diaries, a team leader calling his fire team Aryan Team, and a platoon… Read more »

MarineDad61

Engineer14,
Wow.
Is there any written record of any of this anywhere?
Denying the holocaust is not very popular these days,
on either side of the aisle.