First Woman Joins Green Berets

| July 10, 2020


A member of an Army Special Forces unit in 2017 in Afghanistan. The Special Forces are known colloquially as the Green Berets.Credit…Andrew Renneisen/Getty Images

Several weeks ago I reveived a heads-up about the impending graduation, but waived it off, preferring to wait until the actual event. Due diligence and a dislike of drafting retractions held me back, but no more. While the Army is withholding specifics, the enlisted woman has received her SF tab and wears the Green Beret. All I can say is, Bravo Zulu!

ninja sends.

…After Graduating From Special Forces Training

By Thomas Gibbons-Neff

WASHINGTON — A female National Guard soldier graduated from Army Special Forces training on Thursday and earned the title of Green Beret, the first woman to do so since the Pentagon opened all combat jobs, including those in the Special Operations community, to women in 2016.

The woman, an enlisted soldier, was on track to graduate in April, but was forced to repeat part of the training before continuing to the final portion, known as Robin Sage, which tests the candidates on a range of skills considered essential to becoming a Green Beret, according to military officials. The New York Times first reported the woman’s ascension through the roughly yearlong course in February.

The soldier’s name and other biographical information have been withheld by the Army for personal and operational security reasons as she enters the secretive Special Operations community.

But her socially distant graduation, during which she received her Special Forces tab and donned her Green Beret alongside her classmates, is a landmark moment, as the Green Berets were one of the last assignments in the Army without any women. In February, there was at least one other woman, a medical sergeant, going through Special Forces training.

“Each and every one of you demonstrated the ability to meet the baseline standards and competencies for admission to our regiment,” said Lt. Gen. Francis M. Beaudette, the commander of the Army’s Special Operations Command, who presided over the graduation ceremony held in a hangar at Pope Army Airfield at Fort Bragg in North Carolina, according to a statement.

“From here, you will go forward and join the storied formation of the Green Berets, where you will do what you are trained to do: challenge assumptions, break down barriers, smash through stereotypes, innovate and achieve the impossible,” General Beaudette said. “Thankfully, after today, our Green Beret men and women will forever stand in the hearts of free people everywhere.”

In recent years, the Army and the Marines have slowly filled previously restricted roles with women. Though more than 700 women in the Army are in previously restricted jobs, a position in the Special Operations forces, which have crushingly high physical standards, had long been considered by some as unattainable for them.

Roughly 70,000 of the approximately 470,000 troops in the Army are women.

In 2017, a woman was accepted into the Army’s 75th Ranger Regiment, an elite light infantry unit under the Joint Special Operations Command. More than a dozen women have graduated from the Army’s grueling Ranger school in Georgia.

In 1981, before all combat jobs were open to women, Capt. Kate Wilder officially graduated from Special Forces training. She was forced out by her superiors in the final days of her course, even though she had passed it in its entirety. The Army investigated the episode in the following months and subsequently sent her a graduation certificate dated for Aug. 21, 1980.

Best of luck in your new path, Green Beret. Read the rest here: New York Times

Thanks, ninja.

Category: Army, Bravo Zulu, Guest Post, ninja

Comments (99)

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  1. Slow Joe says:

    Why don’t the open all professional sports to women and eliminate the separate female-only teams?

    I mean, if works in combat, where lives are on the line, why not in sports?

    Can someone explain?

    • OldManchu says:

      And combine the men / women together in the Olympic Marathon race every 4 years.

    • Ex-Ph2 says:

      In some sports women DO compete against men and come out ahead. Get over yourselves.

    • MI Ranger says:

      Slow Joe,
      For the same reason people are fighting biological men competing as women. There is a biological difference. While it is true that some women can compete against most men, very few (if any) are able to compete against the top athletes. They have a distinct size advantage, and also a larger amount of muscle.
      However in sports where it is simply competing against a standard they should and do compete! But women also want to compete on a fair playing field, and therefore a separate competition “industry” is available to them.
      Lets look at women in motorsports. Danika Patrick performed in the highest competitions and several times started at the Pole Position, but she never won a race.
      In pro golf it is a different story. Several females have tried and competed in the mens PGA tour (in fact there is no rule against it), but no women has ever completed a tour event (meaning they complete all cuts and play on the final day) let alone won one. Babe Zaharias was the closest in 1938 (when she got cut on the third round).
      Let’s compare sprinters: Men’s 100m dash World Record 9.58s. Women’s World Record 10.49s. That may not sound like a lot but in reality that time would not even get them to the starting blocks, let alone the finals! How about Long jump: Men’s WR 29ft 4.25inches; Women’s 24ft 8in. Men’s High Jump 8ft 0.25 in; Women’s 6ft 10.25in. Pole Vault: Women’s 16ft 5.5in; Men’s 20ft 3.25in
      Professional Sports is just that a profession. If someone thinks they can make money at it, they form a league! If they do make money the league lasts for a while. The men’s leagues to my knowledge do not have any restrictions that they are men only. Women are free to compete, but women’s leagues do. They are not sub leagues like the minors or college.
      They are meant for them to have a chance to compete and not be pushed out by males or biological males competing as women.

      • 7711C20 says:

        Not nitpicking, not counting lower series, Danica Patrick won the 2008 Indy Japan 300.

        • MI Ranger says:

          Yeah I was just referring to NASCAR. She did win some races in IndyCar.

          And not to be outdone. John Force’s daughters follow in his foot steps quite well. At least one is a NHRA Champion.

        • David says:

          Note the 2008 Japan race occurred the same weekend as the Long Beach Grand Prix, which as the more prestigious race, almost all the top teams attended. She never won a race against true top-tier drivers and in NASCAR never finished in the top 5. There is a big difference between a few laps on an almost empty track for qualifying and real racing: about like the diffrence between plinking tin cans with a .22 and a real gunfight against a seasoned pro.

          • 11B-Mailclerk says:

            Fourth. Vegas. 2011.

          • 11B-Mailclerk says:

            IndyCar weight rules favor lightweight drivers, as the cars are weighed empty. 100 pounds less driver is a significant advantage.

            NASCAR weighs car and driver together. The 100 pound driver gets 100 pounds of ballast to haul.

      • Roh-Dog says:

        Your facts have been deemed racist and you have been reported to the Bureau of Re-education.
        Everyone is equal!
        Praise the science-worshiping, non-gender conforming minorityarchy!

      • OldManchu says:

        Golf is not a sport.

      • Slow Joe says:

        MI Ranger,
        What’s your point?

        Women are biological different from men. The division in sexes happened long before hominids appear in the archeological record.

        Do you want women in combat arms?
        No problem, as long as the standards are not lowered.

        However, 2nd and 3rd order effects are a bitch, and Big Army has turned a blind eye to that to promote political correctness on the battlefield.

        Perhaps we should try to learn from the Israeli experience, that had thousands of women fighting effectively in defensive positions in the front lines during the Arab Wars, and then tried for decades to integrate women into offensive combat units, failing every time.

        Today Israel still have 3 infantry battalions of mixed sexes, and none of the males want to serve there. Their performance is subpar compared to the regular, male only battalions, but political correctness hide their mediocrity even from the Wiki page.
        Do a deep search and the shit starts to surface, slowly.

        Keep in mind that in Israel though there is a draft, service in the infantry is volunteer, and candidates have to go through a 3 days selection, called the gibush, and the higher the score the better chance of you getting your first pick for a unit, with the infantry volunteers with the lowest scores limited to the mixed sex battalions, because males don’t want to go to those.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracal_Battalion

        • MI Ranger says:

          Slow Joe,
          My point is not to pick sides in the discussion on Women in the military.
          You asked why not sports?! I provided an answer.
          I served in some of the best Infantry Units in the world. I also served in some that were not. Would a female be able to fit in in both…it depends. Could they serve in an Airborne Battalion Combat Team (ABCT) sure. I agree, don’t lower the standards…my ruck is heavy enough, I don’t need your shit too!
          Could they serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Probably, just don’t lower the standards. We had guys in the Regiment who were over six feet and closer to 300 than 200lbs. We also had guys who were five feet something and barely pushing 150lbs. I have known females who were close to 200lbs and over six foot, but I have also known many that were not much north of 5 feet and they thought 130lbs was too heavy. Would I want a six foot 180lbs female that benches over her weight and easily squats 300lbs in the Regiment sure…would I want a five three 130lbs one who wines when we actually put weights on the bench press bar…NO! They have to want to be there and meet the same standard.
          I wrote recommendation letters for Soldiers I had as an MI Commander to go to Special Mission Units not because I thought it was cool. Because I thought they could meet the standard and would be an asset to the Teams. I would have happily served beside them if I was asked, I just never got asked.

          • OldManchu says:

            But men and women are still, and always, biologically different.

          • Quartermaster says:

            Standards were lowered in Ranger School to get some women through. I understand they have now been lowered across the board.

            The question about the latest blow against the “patriarchy” is how far were standards lowered in the “Q” course to let her through. It is unlikely, in the extreme, that standards were not lowered.

            • 11B-Mailclerk says:

              Do women take the same PT tests, or is there still a lower table for women?

              There was also lowered scores for older men when I was in. If I recall correctly, the first lowering occur at 24.

              Do Q and Ranger School use a single standard for all?

              • Green Thumb says:

                Back in the day, if I can remember, everyone going was rated on the 18-21 you standard. I think. But that was 20 years past.

                The APFT at your home unit had the differences.

  2. USMC Steve says:

    I saw another article that said she was all of five feet tall.

    My only question is will she actually be sent to a team, and expected to perform these duties, or was this another instance of a multi thousand dollar waste of time and money for her to stroke her ego? Like the two women who made it through Ranger training.

    The next logical question is how long will it be before she gets tired of humping well more than her body weight in crap and breaks, or gets knocked up to get out of it? One or the other WILL happen.

    • MI Ranger says:

      USMC,
      According to the article…just like all who go to the Q course, she already serves in a SF unit. Now she is qualified to be an operator. Does that mean she will be accepted…maybe. If the Commander is smart he will choose a team that is progressive in thinking and let them work it out not accommodate her.
      As for the female Ranger graduates. I was impressed by the Soldiers I have so far seen graduate. They wanted to serve in Ranger units, not just get their tab and go back to being an adjutant. I don’t know what if any standards were altered to accommodate the females (likely at least a limit on dropping your pants to remove undergarments in a hurry…aka stripper pants). But it did not look like they did much.
      Everyone before you says it was harder when they did it, but much of the changes were due to budget cuts and safety not to make it easier! I did not get to go to Utah to wonder through the desert, but I did freeze my ass off in Mountains, and struggle through the water and mountains and forests!
      Since you are given a full medical exam before going to Ranger school, and SF it is unlikely you can start when your pregnant. As for getting pregnant during the school I would question their motivation if they let something like that happen during a course. Since Ranger School is only a few months long (~60 days) the symptoms would only just start showing and if she was smart she would just not let anyone know. SF school may be different, and would likely be a medical disqualifier from continuing.

      I have known plenty of guys that had a little too much sand in the “V” to continue, so I doubt it is an original excuse!

      • Ex-PH2 says:

        “I did not get to go to Utah to wonder through the desert, but I did freeze my ass off in Mountains, and struggle through the water and mountains and forests!”

        You got to go hiking???? I want to go to! Did you see any bears or shorthaired lions? Snakes?

        C’mon, spill! All I ever see is birds and dragons.

        • MI Ranger says:

          Ex-PH2,
          It was a magical place! The mountains of Georgia are so tranquil when they are lightly dusted with the falling snow. From the tops of Mount Yona you can see a lovely little lake (where I am told there is a nudist colony).
          The forests of Georgia are not so tranquil and often have lots of trees marked with big white bands. In the panhandle of Florida it rains a lot, even when the sun is out…and it is sandy. The wet lands can be quite fascinating with how deep the puddles between trees can grow! I recall a snake or two, but mostly they fled from our presence. I do recall seeing a black one in the swamp once, they said stay back from it as it was not afraid. There be no dragons that I am aware of, or saw sign there of!

          • timactual says:

            Jeebers, Pollyanna!! “the mountains are so tranquil when dusted with snow”. May be, but not when that snow is scoured away by hurricane force winds. We were issued parkas and “mickey mouse” boots when we went there, and the barracks walls and doors were so thick with insulation it was like a walk-in reefer.

            ” I recall a snake or two, ”
            A snake “or two” he says. That’s “a snake or two” per person per day. One of the cadre when I was there had a standing reward for hostile snakes, and one of my friends always took sandbags with him to hold the ones he caught. He would literally jump into the water and chase water moccasins.

            “There be no dragons that I am aware of or saw sign there of”

            That’s because you were in a stupor from lack of sleep and couldn’t see those reptilian eyes and snout lurking just out of the water, just watching…and waiting…and watching.

            One warm day I jumped into a stream for nice cool, refreshing dip and it was so cold my gonads bruised my tonsils on their way up.

            Methinks you could get a job writing travel brochures (or recruiting ads) for other colorful and fascinating locations. Gaza, maybe, or Yemen.

          • Green Thumb says:

            Mountains blew ass.

            But the blueberry pancakes during “Yonah” made it somewhat bearable.

            • rgr769 says:

              Blueberry pancakes, huh? I remember Yona and practically everything they gave us to eat, including that live chicken. But I can’t recall any blueberry pancakes. The pancakes we received in the messhall sans blueberries were barely palatable and usually cold. But cold food was a specialty at Camp Darby at 0400 in late November.

              • Green Thumb says:

                Used to be a chow hall, more like a wooden cabin of sorts, set up on a small incline in camp.

                Shuffle in, eat fast, shuffle out. I heard it was worked by a couple (non-military). But who knows? I was class 6-00.

                Sometimes we got hot lunch or supper chow. Not so much but we did get breakfast chow on occasion (see below). But when doing the high Mountain course (Yonah), they would feed us hot chow. By then, we had lost at least about 20 lbs on average. Need calories to climb and fuck with knots and ropes up top. Especially in the cold. I have white thread on my Tab.

              • Green Thumb says:

                Darby sucked. I imagine it still sucks.

                When going through IOBC several years later, I was over that way doing a detail. Benning folks love putting Officers (2LT’s) on detail. Cutting a damn road through a swamp to create a range! Yeah. Actually swung by the Darby chow hall to eat. Closest one.

                Felt bad for the studs in recycle there. Even the cadre glowered at us. But hey, I picked mine up as an E-3. Burp.

                Chow halls are open to folks on post. Food was not that bad if I recall. Hit it again during the Anti-Armor course. Same shit. Circa 2005. Last time I was in that neck of the woods.

      • Green Thumb says:

        They received almost a year + of extra “free” train up time while not serving in their command positions plus got to walk the course a few times (and practice). The 1LT and ZERO time with your troops. Yeah.

        To be equal means to receive equal treatment.

        When I went through, second recycle and you were sent on the first thing smoking back to your unit…

      • ninja says:

        USMC Steve:

        * Your point about her being 5 feet tall?

        * Your point about her getting “knocked up?” If you are married or have children, did you refer your wife or girlfriend as being “knocked up”? Or did you use the word “pregnant”? Was your Mom “pregnant” when she carried you or was she “knocked up”?

        MI Ranger: Please remember, but you already know this and I always respect what you write, but it takes two people for a woman to become pregnant (except in the case of a certain Carpenter).

        I just wish folks would focus more on what Woman Soldiers/Sailor/Airmen/Marines/Coast Guard have accomplished in the past 200 years instead of focusing on pregnancy.

        It gets old after a while. No one blinks an eye when a Male Soldier announces he will be a Father, but heaven help us if a Female Soldier states she will be a Mom.

        Please.Stop.Please. Focus. On. The. Person. The. Woman. Who.Wants. To. Be. A.Green. Beret.

        Thank You.

        • timactual says:

          ” No one blinks an eye when a Male Soldier announces he will be a Father, but heaven help us if a Female Soldier states she will be a Mom.”

          And you really don’t understand why? My sympathies.

        • 11B-Mailclerk says:

          The man expecting a kid is distracted.

          The woman expecting a kid is non-deployable and debilitated.

          That isn’t “unfair” to point out, it is cold hard reality.

          So is “much lower bone density leading to more stress fractures”.

      • IDC SARC says:

        Folks that go to a Q course don’t have to be serving in an SF unit. They just have to pass SFQC.

        I worked in the 18D Course (SFMS) for over a decade.

        Not sure where they got the idea serving in an SF Unit was a prereq, that’s just not true.

        We had folks come through SOCM that weren’t even from source communities.

        Before I left in 2018 there was definitely favoritism for females. They were rolled time and time again in an attempt they could eventually get it right.

    • rgr769 says:

      If she is only five feet tall, she likely weighs 110 or less. I would love to see a video of her rucked up with full combat gear, a load of about 135lbs with body armor, so we could see how she moves under such a load. For those unaware, the reason the Army developed the large rucksack is to accommodate all the extra gear an ODA has to carry.

  3. Sapper3307 says:

    Pass/Fail became, Work on it after graduation.

    • IDC SARC says:

      Yes, this is true. That was happening before I left. The commanders are disloyal SOBs. Officer that never served in SF are given positions of power and undermine the standards intentionally.

      Some of the NCOICs are bootlicking traitors to their own communities.

      • rgr769 says:

        They were doing that shit back in my day, in the 70’s. My last group commander (O-6, full colonel) had graduated SFOC as a major but had never before served in a SF unit. Fortunately, he was only the C.O. for a few months before I left the Group and AD.

  4. Honor and Courage says:

    I don’t know! My mind wonders into the known and unknown. I can’t see 2 months in extreme heat, and mountain conditions with no water, or clean uniforms, leaches, red ants that will make you strip naked while being eaten all over, jungle rot where half of your face falls of, and humping your dead until you can extract them.
    The graphic films of the Normandy invasion and bodies floating in water with the surf, now add some female Soldiers! No pretty at all.
    I do offer my congratulation’s for the work and effort to complete a truly difficult training program. I wish her luck and she is already passed a major milestone in Military History.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      Oh, so it’s okay for you to do that because GENITALS but it’s not okay for women to do it?

      Please let me know when you get pregnant and go into labor, willya? Especially let me know if the fetus isn’t head first, Toots.

      • ninja says:

        Ex-PH2:

        BRAVO.

        Thank You.

        Wouldn’t it be nice if as a Military community, we come together as a team commending Woman Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines and Coast Guard for going above and beyond instead of focusing on them getting “knocked up” or going thru those treacheous jungles or mountains or deserts…

        Say, if memory serves me correctly, didn’t we have women pioneers who ventured out West with their families and endured extreme hardship to include death of their husbands or children?

        Or did I dream it all?

        😎😉

        • Honor and Courage says:

          No you weren’t dreaming ! None of them were ever repeatedly raped by their friendly captors either, that why they always saved the last Bullitt for themselves.
          The facts speak for themselves! Several hundred Soldiers were returned from OIF, and OEF because of pregnancies’ and most were married to a state side spouse.

          I sure that the vast majority performed to standards! 😎

          • MI Ranger says:

            To get in to an SF unit is an honor. Are you saying they would disparage the unit and themselves by sleeping with their buddy? I guess since we got rid of the other military disqualifier it doesn’t matter if they are gay, just if they are female?!
            My main worry would be fraternization, it breaks down morale. I have had female team members and felt I could rely on them better than many of the male Soldiers. That was in non-elite units.
            While I would proudly serve with a female who can meet the standards of elite units, that medical condition can put a damper on unit readiness. And purposeful or not it can often come at inopportune times. Had a female Officer that easily could have served on a Team before we went to Iraq come up pregnant during the mandatory medical tests. She was upset , but thankfully we had a female Battalion Commander at the time who understood careers. She ended up being the rear detachment Commander for half the deployment and carried on. She deployed later and made the decision on what she wanted to do with her career after that.

            I am good either way. I can understand both sides of the argument. However, as a white male I am privileged to not have to make decisions and fight tradition. I get things handed to me, and am always better for it!(sarc) So long as they do not lower the standard I am good either way!
            My ruck sack is full enough as it is!

            • timactual says:

              “My main worry would be fraternization, it breaks down morale”

              In my company we had two guys that argued over a C-ration to the point of a “Mexican standoff”. I doubt that adding frustrated love or a broken heart or jealousy would cause less friction than a C-ration.

              • rgr769 says:

                Ditto. I had two NCO’s in one of my A-teams who disliked me because I made them soldier, like they were supposed to, on a major exercise in the FGR. I imagine if I had been banging their favorite team side-piece, they would have been planning my demise.

      • Honor and Courage says:

        Take it easy! I don’t plan on Craping any watermelon’s

        If I do I’ll let you name it!

  5. OldManchu says:

    Fighting Soldiers from the sky
    Fearless persons who jump and die
    Persons who mean just what they say
    The brave persons of the Green Beret
    Silver Wings upon their chest
    These are persons America’s best
    100 persons will test today
    But only 3 win the Green Beret
    Trained to live of nature’s land
    Trained in combat hand to hand
    Persons who fight by night and day
    Courage take from the Green Beret
    Silver Wings upon their chest
    These are persons America’s best
    100 persons will test today
    But only 3 win the Green Beret
    Back at home a young non-binary transgender queer waits
    It’s Green Beret has met it’s fate
    He or she has died for those oppressed
    Leaving it it’s last request
    Put Silver Wings on my non-identified pending gender’s chest
    Make it one of America’s best
    It will be a fluctuating gender to test one day
    Have it win the Green Beret

  6. 26Limabeans says:

    Caudine Longet wore a beret as a member of the French Underground
    in the series Combat! I fell in love with her. Then she shot
    her boyfriend and I reconsidered.

  7. Ex Coelis says:

    Bravo Zulu!!

  8. Skippy says:

    Interesting stuff here
    That’s all

  9. MI Ranger says:

    Congratulations “Unknown” Soldier!!
    Would have been quite the feet if they could have gotten Kathleen Wilder to pin on her Tab, but that would have been harder to stomach for some in the community.

  10. Green Thumb says:

    I wonder why she was not active duty. If one remembers, the NG had the first female IN Soldier. What a goat fuck that was.

    Curious to the extra train up time she received and if she received additional train up or other help on site. In the NG, I image she could have had of the time in the world.

    Just like the Ranger School fiasco.

    • Green Thumb says:

      And I cannot wait until Time Magazine gives her one of the Top 50 Leaders of the Year slots…

      I wonder if she is a minority? If not, the then JSOC is racist!

      I also wonder of much training was “shelved” due to the social distancing factor implemented in the Armed Forces due to the extremely close proximity of numerous training events and obligations.

    • ninja says:

      Green Thumb wrote:

      “I wonder why she was not active duty.”

      Why don’t you ask her?

      What does her being in the National Guard have anything to do with her earning the Green Beret?

      Her being a “minority”? Well, if you think about it, since she is a Female Soldier, she is already a “minority”.

      Or did I miss something?

      😎😉

      • Green Thumb says:

        I did write that. Nice quote.

        Not my meaning and you know it.

        Guard has WAY more time to train in the down time. If you were in the military, you would know that as it is not a 24/.7 position unless your are ARG or deployed.

        And maybe I will one day.

        You good with that?

        I will say, it looks like you are stirring the pot. Fine by me…

      • Green Thumb says:

        And by the way, I would not call women just because they are women minorities.

        You may wish to check with NOW on that for further clarification.

        Have fun with that one…!

    • Stacy0311 says:

      I wonder about the efficiency of training Guardsmen for SF (and yes, I’m Guard and my state has 2 companies of SF).

      The way it works here is you apply to the SF recruiting office in the state, they review your records, interview you. If you’re approved you go to what is essentially a SFAS prep course for 8 months (drill weekends). And jump school if not already qualified.

      Then it’s off to SFAS. IF selected it’s Q Course. Then follow on schools/training.

      So probably about 3 years from start to finish.

      Seems like it would be easier to recruit AD people to fill the NG SF slots. Especially considering the experience, knowledge and skill level.

      • IDC SARC says:

        Guard can be a bizznitch. I’ve seen guys refused a roll that probably could have made it but their parent commands weren’t behind them and/or it was too much of a financial hardship for the guard guy to stay another time. The shortest course for medics in SOF (SOCM) is a 6 month committment.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      Maybe if the mindless media focused on real world accomplishments and less on gonadism and hormones, the nonsensical notions that they spread around could just crawl away into the wastebasket where they belong.

      • IDC SARC says:

        maybe if they also looked at physiology, adaptation and longevity, the law of diminishing returns in “diversity” versus mission accomplishment.

        Could we do X vs do we need to do X

  11. 5th/77th FA says:

    BZ to the Lady Special Forces Graduate. I have always felt that anyone should have the same equal opportunity to attempt to do/perform any task that they felt that they could do. I wish her all of the continued success she wants in her future career.

    Some folks like roasted rattle snake over a fire made by rubbing sticks together. I’ll take C-Rat beanie weenies heated by a piece of C-4 lit by the Zippo. And pound cake with peaches. Followed up by a Kool from the 4 pack.

    • ninja says:

      KoB:

      I like your diplomatic response (roasted rattle snake, Zippo lighter, etc.etc).

      The Soldier graduated. BZ for her and best of luck to what she chooses to do in her Army career.

      She could have chosen the path of destroying our nations history by tearing down monuments, by rioting, etc.

      But she didn’t.

      She chose to serve our Country. Does not matter if she is National Guard or 5 Feet Tall.

      She is serving. She did not feel sorry for herself or committ suicide when forced to repeat part of the training before continuing to the final portion, known as Robin Sage.

      She did not blame the Army for having to repeat that portion of the course nor did she have her parents blame the Army for her having to redo.

      Sounds as if she is a person of responsibility and determination who truly wants to be a Green Beret.
      Iign
      I salute you.

      And BTW, I believe that if Young Men still have to sign up with the Selective Service, so should Young Women. All is fair in love and war.

      • Ex-PH2 says:

        And BTW, I believe that if Young Men still have to sign up with the Selective Service, so should Young Women. All is fair in love and war. – Ninja

        Yes, yes, yes. I have said this for longer than the GunBunny has been cookin’. Fair is fair: either the gals register for it, too, or NOBODY DOES. PEEWEEODD.

        Equal Opportunity? How about Equal Responsibility?

      • 5th/77th FA says:

        Tanks! Credit goes to Mama, that’s the way we were raised. Red & yellow, black and white, all are precious in His sight. Boy or girl you can do anything you put your mind to. And it is better to try and fail than to have never tried at all.

        We trained fairly closely with some IDF Troops back in the early 70s. One of our more burly boy troops made a snide remark to one of the girl IDF Troops about “sharing a fox hole/sleeping berth” with her. She kicked his azz, not that anybody saw anything. Musta slipped in the shower.

        We had a number of girl outside plant technicians doing construction/maintenance work for Ma Bell. They were expected to do the same work as the guys. I showed a bunch of them how to properly use the equipment on the big trucks to do the heavy lifting v brute strength.

        I liked the analogy you gave on the pioneer Ladies. Many of the places I had planned on visiting (some repeat visits) on my canceled road trip are replete with those examples. And we can’t forget the Molly Pitchers or the Nancy Harts of our History. I’ll attach a linky for an all girl unit formed during the WBTS in LaGrange GA. You may know/have heard of them. It’s a good read.

        My hope is that the abortionists are met just outside the gates of hell by the souls of all the babies they murdered, the babies holding the tools of the abortionists trade. May the abortionist spend all of eternity being dismembered as their souls burn.

        • timactual says:

          “She kicked his azz”

          How uncivilized. Must be all that repressive, sexist, religious influence. The correct response would be to have the criminal imprisoned and have his future ruined for his inappropriate remark.

      • SFC D says:

        The 5 feet tall part concerns me far more than the female part. I had a couple of female Soldiers that were barely 5 feet. In some Signal environments, 5 feet tall doesn’t work, male or female. She had the technical skills, strength, and the desire to excel, but her height was a detriment. She eventually reclassed. Had another 5 foot tall female, PT badass, blackbelts in 3 different disciplines, one of the best IT people I’ve ever seen. Height was not an issue there. Sometimes, the job just comes down to physical size and capability.

  12. penguinman000 says:

    Like many others I say BZ to her. I was never army or in the SOF community, so my base assumption is they held the standard. Anyone that passes those courses has to be hard as wood pecker lips.

    I do have some experience and personal observations about women in conventional combat units. On one of my deployments to Iraq we had “Lionesses” attached. They lasted with our unit about 1 month before the hanky panky started. While people were standing post no less. The BC kicked them back to Blue Diamond.

    My last deployment to Afghanistan we had a FET (Female Engagement Team) chopped to us. I was leery because of my prior experience. Turned out those young ladies were friggin awesome. Always on time, kept up, maintained their professional bearing, and carried all their own shit.

    The turning point for my attitude toward them came in the 2nd week. One of the younger/prettier ones come into the Center of Confusion with tears in her eyes. One of the ANA grabbed her boobs (I doubt the Afghani’s had ever seen a young lady with lungs that healthy). The female FET team leader looked her square in the eye and said “Why didn’t you punch that MFer in the face?”

    Fast forward another month or two and I hadn’t seen one of the FET team members around for a while. I corner their Corpsman and ask where LCPL _____ is? Don’t get a straight answer. Track her down and discover she is injured. She was ducking me because she didn’t want to get MEDEVACed. It sucked to see a young female Marine who was hard as nails have her body fail her.

    She had suffered stress fractures in one of her feet. Despite how tough, motivated and physically fit these young Marines were; 1 of 5 suffered a repetitive stress injury. And that injury happened at about the 3 month mark. Still another 3-4 months to go.

    I did a tour in Kosovo, three in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. All of these were with Infantry BNs except one. I spent about half of my 20 year career as a Corpsman stationed with Infantry BNs. In all that time I never had a male who suffered stress fractures while in a combat zone.

    I’m all for equal opportunity but not at the expense of common sense or lethal capability. There are tough women out there. But the reality is their bodies are not made to take the same beating that men’s bodies are. And life in a ground combat unit is a repetitive physical beating.

    At the end of the day, if the data is reviewed honestly, we are going to find that females in ground combat units simply will not be a good return on investment. This isn’t looking down my nose at them or viewing them as lesser. It’s simple biology and math.

    The Marine Corps performed a study and found females are a performance negative while performing infantry activities. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-in-marines-infantry-experiment/

    Our sisters bring much to the fight. They are present in tier one units, pilots, medical, logistics, etc… And they have proven over and over they are just as capable and lethal as their brothers. But they are our sisters and not our brothers.

    • bill says:

      Thoughtful response, Doc. I’m gonna use yer last line in future conversations on this subject.

    • timactual says:

      Uh oh.
      You are a baaaad boy.
      Back to Antarctica for you!

      • penguinman000 says:

        I actually volunteered for Deep Freeze early on in my career (before the Navy turned it over to the Air Force). Got selected and the command refused to let me go.

  13. Doug says:

    BZ? why? She accomplished something that everyone in her class accomplished. Why should she be given special consideration? She entered a new career field where she will compete with everyone within the same MOS. Like everyone in her MOS, she will earn her promotions on par with her fellow soldiers based on performance doing the job she is trained to do.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      Why? If you must know, Doug, it’s the media insisting on it. If this female soldier is not named by her command, she may have specifically requested anonymity so that she can have some peace and quiet and just focus on doing her job.

      • Doug says:

        doesn’t BZ = below zone promotion, I don not understand your point.

        • Slow Joe says:

          Hahaha.

          That’s what I thought too, until our Navy brothers here educated me that Bravo Zulu means well done.

          • Doug says:

            LOL, I speak Army, I guess there are good reasons for Navy folks to stay on ships away from others, haha – no offense

    • timactual says:

      ” Why should she be given special consideration?”

      Why, because she is female of course. Don’t try to make sense of it, just accept it.

  14. IDC SARC says:

    “I’d like to have two armies: one for display with *** social experiments***lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering Generals, and dear little regimental officers who would be deeply concerned over their General’s bowel movements or their Colonel’s piles, an army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country. The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage uniforms, who would not be put on display, but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That’s the army in which I should like to fight.”

    ― Jean Lartéguy

    apologies to JL 🙂

    • timactual says:

      copyright 1963. As M. Larteguy might say, “Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”.

      Read that book before I walked “La rue sans joie”. Should have been (and still should be) required reading.

  15. IDC SARC says:

    Bet she arrives at her first unit with a profile. lol

  16. 11B-Mailclerk says:

    The Army is all about combat, to support and defend the Constitution. That which makes it better at combat to support and defend is good. That which makes it worse at it is bad.

    Do we make the Army better at combat to support and defend by direct integration of females into front-line combatant roles, yes or no?

    Not “fair”. Not “they have rights”. Is the -Army- better able to do the job?

    You can choose to ignore reality. You -cannot- ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.